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The Street Fighter V Thread


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This match perfectly encapsulates when you run into someone so good that you’re  just completely outclassed. This Ryu is a GM and you don’t get to GM with Ryu just being a meathead. But MOV... god damn watching this shit made me mad lmao 

 


Based Long Island Joe!

 

Gonna eat lunch then I’ll be up for some games if anyone wants to body me!

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5 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Gill in the bottom tier? Why do Capcom insist on making jobbers of all their big bads? 

 

3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I don't like the way the game plays. I don't like Focus Attacks. I don't like long as combos that do fuck all damage.  From Aesthetic level the game is ugly. The 3D models got better as they want along but there is no excuse for a game that came out in 2008/9 to have issues like Viper's uniboob and hips. Gouken had the same exact hip issue.  What is N64 era bullshit? Top top it off it introduced Rufus. If have the option of playing any main line Street Fighter game, I'd pick any game sans SF1 over SFIV. 

 

 

Yeah Rufus has the most terrible fighting game character motivation, I don't know if the guy is sick or something that had terrible eye problem.

 

What I like with SF4 is the classic costumes as the default.

 

SF4 needs a treatment like VF5US, updated character model especially in the faces

 

put the SFXTekken Tag system 

 

Replace focus attack with an Alpha counter a like

 

Change SF4 character's Super to SFXT Super Charge

 

Turn SF4 character's Ultra to SFXT Super Arts

 

Add VKen, Nash, Alex, Urien, Karin and Mika, 

 

Then were all set SF4 Ultimate Tag Battle for nintendo switch

 

5 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Gill in the bottom tier? Why do Capcom insist on making jobbers of all their big bads? 

 

from what i have heard shao khan is in that state too in current MK

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39 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

I mean more in a lore sense I guess. Bison's been rekt in how many SF games now and it looks like Gill, a god basically, is on that same path here. I get that they can't make them OP on purpose, but it's always funny to see a character who is a celestial being struggle in a fight with someone wearing a schoolgirl outfit.

I’m not really sure what you’re saying here. Are you upset that lore Gill is a jobber (he isn’t?)  or that his lore strength is translated poorly into gameplay with him being relatively low tier wise?
 

I can’t comment on the first but if it’s the second it’s just one of those things you kinda have to live with for the sake of gameplay. That said, Bison, Seth, and Akuma are all examples of main bad guy characters that are strong both in lore and in game. At least in SFV Gill seems to be the exception. 
 

With Gill I’m more frustrated about how he feels like great value Urien. 

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17 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I’m not really sure what you’re saying here. Are you upset that lore Gill is a jobber (he isn’t?)  or that his lore strength is translated poorly into gameplay with him being relatively low tier wise?
 

I can’t comment on the first but if it’s the second it’s just one of those things you kinda have to live with for the sake of gameplay. That said, Bison, Seth, and Akuma are all examples of main bad guy characters that are strong both in lore and in game. At least in SFV Gill seems to be the exception. 
 

With Gill I’m more frustrated about how he feels like great value Urien. 

This mainly. But I don't really know how you would translate a character like that into someone who isn't ST Akuma broken.

 

TBH, I don't even think Capcom is really thinking about all that stuff too hard, they're just trying to fill the character select screen with characters people will pony up cash for.

Edited by DoctaMario
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41 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

TBH, I don't even think Capcom is really thinking about all that stuff too hard, they're just trying to fill the character select screen with characters people will pony up cash for.

Couldn't disagree more, they could have just made him a motion Urien. Instead, they gave him a unique system of his own.

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Just now, Sonero said:

 

Except the game wasn't shit. It had a lot of character variety in a lot of places and it let a bunch of player successfully play mid tier for a large amount of time.

 

 

Except you can't tell me what I think is trash. Different strokes for different folks. Game is trash to me. You are more to welcome to enjoy the game. This isn't Resetera, people can have different opinions here.

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Interesting about SF4 that it got had a story outside it's mainline games

 

like the Juri OVA and ties that bind

 

Even in two of it's pachinko games haha

 

It has a story about Ryu new journey and a new training with Gouken

 

and the other newer pachinko was about Seth and Juri.

 

They could have used the clips there to form a new game for switch

Edited by Shakunetsu
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3 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

Interesting about SF4 that it got had a story outside it's mainline games

 

like the Juri OVA and ties that bind

 

Even in two of it's pachinko games haha

 

It has a story about Ryu new journey and training with Gouken

 

and the newer pachinko was about Seth, Juri and etc.

 

They could have used the clips there 

Knew about the OVAs. Had know idea about the pachinko machines though. Anything interesting in them?

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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2 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Except you can't tell me what I think is trash. Different strokes for different folks. Game is trash to me.

 

Except you guys haven't really explained why the game is trash.  "I just think its trash" isn't much of anything. The only thing you said was that the game was ugly. The game being ugly is subjective.

 

But unless you start giving gameplay examples as to why the game is trash, you're discounting a whole game for no reason.

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Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

Knew about the OVAs. Had no idea about the pachinko machines though. Anything interesting in them?

The first pachinko is centered on Ryu and Gouken then a bit of Viper,Sakura, Chunli, Ken, Akuma, Sagat and Seth

 

It more Ryu story focus and a new training with Gouken. Its along SF4 vanilla release. It got fewer characters,

 

while the other newer one was kinda complicated it's about Seth base and Juri. It's about numerous street fighter going after Seth's base

 

They could have used the footage their to make a storymode like in SFV

Edited by Shakunetsu
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Just now, Shakunetsu said:

The first pachinko is centered on Ryu and Gouken then a bit of Viper,Sakura, Chunli, Ken, Akuma, Sagat and Seth

 

It more Ryu story focus and a new training with Gouken. Its along SF4 vanilla release. It got fewer characters,

 

while the other newer one was kinda complicated it's about Seth base and Juri. It's about numerous street fighter going after Seth's base

 

Do we have any info on this in the story thread? I'd like to look more into it.

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I can't get into the argument of SF4 good or bad gameplay wise, as it's beyond my paygrade - but through that game I made 5 "RL" friends, and brought three buddies into fighting games - and we had a fucktonne of laughs on the way. I'm as casual as they come; I get nervous playing strangers even, but hell. I'm glad the game existed. And had a blast playing it. As Darc says though, it's all subjective, and as I said, to reiterate, I'm nobody to judge the gameplay systems "objectively" - we just had a tonne of fun. 

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5 minutes ago, JustBrowsing said:

I can't get into the argument of SF4 good or bad gameplay wise, as it's beyond my paygrade - but through that game I made 5 "RL" friends, and brought three buddies into fighting games - and we had a fucktonne of laughs on the way. I'm as casual as they come; I get nervous playing strangers even, but hell. I'm glad the game existed. And had a blast playing it. As Darc says though, it's all subjective, and as I said, to reiterate, I'm nobody to judge the gameplay systems "objectively" - we just had a tonne of fun. 

I'm glad the game existed as well. It revitalized the scene. It's like FFVII to me. I don't the like the original FFVII but it showed JRPGs can sell in the West if you market them. Because of that, I got to experience a ton of JRPGs that I do enjoy.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

Do we have any info on this in the story thread? I'd like to look more into it.

I used to post those before in the story thread along with some youtube footage.

 

I'm the only guy that been doing the digging and payed attention with the pachinko stuff when they first released and I was also the one that introduce the three Dolls in the thread before they were reference in the CFN, wikis and other threads or even other English speaking forums.

 

Like I did posted the pachinko about chun li, were there was ending were Chun li beats Bison and etc stuff. I was even requesting translation from the website but it looks like they didn't cared.

 

I did that also with the recent tencent's SF Duel mobile, which probably non-canon anyway.

 

 but the pachinko stuff are made by a "division" also by Capcom which I also mentioned in the thread. So there might be relevant stuff in there,

Edited by Shakunetsu
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1 minute ago, Shakunetsu said:

I used to post those before in the story thread along with some youtube footage.

 

I'm the only guy that been doing the digging and payed attention with the pachinko stuff when they first released and I was also the one that introduce the three Dolls in the thread.

 

Like I did posted the pachinko about chun li, were there was ending were Chun li beats Bison and etc stuff. I was even requesting translation from the website but it looks like they didn't cared.

 

I did that also with the recent tencent's SF Duel mobile, which probably non-canon anyway.

 

 but the pachinko stuff are made by a "division" also by Capcom which I also mentioned in the thread. So there might be relevant stuff in there,

I know @Miðgarðsormis a busy guy but maybe he can look at it when he has the free time.

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15 minutes ago, Sonero said:

FF7 didnt' show JRPGs could sell in the west. There were already hella JRPGs that sold very well before FF7's arrival.

 

Wtf kinda revisionist history hot take is that? We're just gonna pretend the SNES didn't happen?

 

🧐

Bullshit. I've been playing JRPGs since the NES. They didn't sell here. Final Fantasy VI was released as Final Fantasy III here because they didn't even bother to localize FF2, 3, or 4. We didn't get DQV or DQVI. We didn't get Terranigma in North America. They got it in Europe because of Nintendo. Hell a lot the JRPGs we did get were do to someone else localizing them, Nintendo was the reason for Dragon Warrior (Quest) and Final Fantasy I for NES coming stateside. Working Designs built their whole business model off this. They picked up publishing rights on the cheap and localized games in the US. The original publishers didn't think the sales justified the expense. I literally spend my early college years playing JRPGs that had to be fan translated because publishers didn't localize them because they thought they wouldn't sell. It's how I became aware of the Fire Emblem franchise.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention, Nintendo literally gave a way copies of Dragon Warrior with Nintendo Power subscriptions in an effort to push the genre in North America. If it weren't for that, I may not have gotten into the genre. I forgot to bring up the Tales of franchise which started on SNES but we didn't get localized either. Major publishers weren't bringing the games over so niche titles had zero chance of leaving Japan.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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6 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I know @Miðgarðsormis a busy guy but maybe he can look at it when he has the free time.

I did post it even the time when vasili was still on thread, but I was actively posting more info latter after he left than just randomly dropping by

 

The interesting stuff is the first SF4 pachinko about Ryu's Journey in SF4 vanilla that might have the another variation of a story WHY GOUKEN is alive in SF4 other than just him surviving in the waterfall which was on the aftermath trailer.

Edited by Shakunetsu
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2 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

I did post it even the time when vasili was still on thread.

 

The interesting stuff is the first SF4 pachinko about Ryu's Journey in SF4 vanilla that might have the another variation of a story WHY GOUKEN is alive in SF4 other than just him surviving in the waterfall which was on the aftermath movie.

I'll never forget Vasili trying to convince everyone that Gouken, among others, were basically zombies.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

I'll never forget Vasili trying to convince everyone that Gouken, among others, we basically zombies.

His very human there and training Ryu with various mini games. Ken wasn't with them other than a challenger to meet later to Ryu.  Same with Sagat.

 

Viper is a character that usually interrupts Ryu journey like she did in SF4 ties that bind OVA.

 

I still can't find the ending video of that pachinko unlike the Chunli pachinko game that has an ending online.

 

 

Edited by Shakunetsu
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2 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Couldn't disagree more, they could have just made him a motion Urien. Instead, they gave him a unique system of his own.

I'm talking more about who they pick that would make sense with the lore of where the game is at the moment. Like, why bother coming up with a story mode when you just throw characters in there just because "hey, nostalgia!" 

 

36 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Except you guys haven't really explained why the game is trash.  "I just think its trash" isn't much of anything. The only thing you said was that the game was ugly. The game being ugly is subjective.

 

But unless you start giving gameplay examples as to why the game is trash, you're discounting a whole game for no reason.

I gave a whole bunch of them in the last page. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by DoctaMario
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5 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

This mainly. But I don't really know how you would translate a character like that into someone who isn't ST Akuma broken.

Boss characters are hard because you want to make them feel strong and special without being over bearing. Making Akuma ST tier is fun for about 5 minutes until he ruins the game being better than everyone else. 
 

The best way to handle them is to make unique and/flashy while also being good in the basic sense.
 

Seth has lots of teleports and super human attacks on top of his move stealing.

 

Bison has all his psycho power VFX, also has various teleports and all his special movement options. Slow and menacing walk compliments his big bad guy status. 
 

Akuma is literally an amped version of another well rounded character with extra moves.

 

Gill is for sure missing something. He’s defined by his fire/ice thing, but he has nothing outside that. His movements are lame, his normal combos aren’t anything we haven’t seen from Urien, etc. 

Edited by Vhozite
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1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Except you guys haven't really explained why the game is trash.  "I just think its trash" isn't much of anything. The only thing you said was that the game was ugly. The game being ugly is subjective.

 

But unless you start giving gameplay examples as to why the game is trash, you're discounting a whole game for no reason.

Did you not see where I mentioned not like Focus Attacks or long combos that do no damage? Artstyle is subjective. You can objectively point to why the 3D models are bad. I also thought Ultra doing more damage that Super Combo was stupid. You have to make a choice to save meter for a move that does less damage than the one you get by getting punched in the face. Option Selects, I hate option selects. The whole point of playing a game is to do just that. Not scam the system have the CPU chose the best option for me. All that said, it really doesn't matter why I don't like SFIV. I don't like SFIV. I had to put up with this bullshit with FFVII. Not trying to go through this same scenario with SFIV.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Just now, Vhozite said:

Boss characters are hard because you want to make them feel strong and special without being over bearing. Making Akuma ST tier is fun for about 5 minutes until he ruins the game being better than everyone else. 

 

I remember I'm always been campaigning and suggesting from SFV and even in hack communities like the recent ST legacy, for Akuma to his lose generic Hadouken like ryu/ken and replace it with Shakunetsu Hadouken as a default.

 

So his slower in the ground but still have he vibe of having a better ground hadouken in visual sense and in paper but won't really win a real plasma battles against Ryu and Ken on the ground. 

 

I think the real problem there is the air hadouken isn't build for the gameplay mechanics and environment of ST.

 

SF2 has this pause and slowdown when hit by projectiles.

 

I think it was just SFA2 that made Akuma least dominant because the slowdown is least prominent in that game along with the trajectory change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

Artstyle is subjective.

It was fugly, everyone dislike it and other that tries to justify it for beoing fugly because of the reasoning they should look like that because they are street fighter.

 

but saying they have a distinct beauty to a specific type of audience, I don't think so.

 

that maybe the cause of not really having the original intended artstyle for the game, being totally left out which was the INK thing.

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Biggest thing I miss about playing sf4 is Adon, and how Cody and Juri's moveset used to be. I'm NEVER going back to sf4 though. I might have a love/hate relationship with SFV, but at least Falke and for some reason Dan gave me a little life lately.

 

I'm all about STRIVE now though and making fuckers hold these dolphins. Hope to see y'all on the June 8th or 11th.

Edited by Alkipot
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1 hour ago, Mattatsu said:

I’m actually very excited for VF tomorrow, and EC is doing the Lord’s work:

 

 

I’m likely either going to play as Pai or the old drunken dude.

The minute EC started talking about Pai I thought that was gonna be your char. 

 

I totally forgot Lion existed. I hate that stupid little shit of a character with all my heart but Mantis style is GOAT Kung fu and I remember him being fun and obnoxious to play.

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2 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Did you not see where I mentioned not like Focus Attacks or long combos that do no damage? Artstyle is subjective. You can objectively point to why the 3D models are bad. I also thought Ultra doing more damage that Super Combo was stupid. You have to make a choice to save meter for a move that does less damage than the one you get by getting punched in the face. Option Selects, I hate option selects. The whole point of playing a game is to do just that. Not scam the system have the CPU chose the best option for me. All that said, it really doesn't matter why I don't like SFIV. I don't like SFIV. I had to put up with this bullshit with FFVII. Not trying to go through this same scenario with SFIV.

 

SF5 is full of long combos that do no damage too. That isn't specific to SF4. Hell SF4 also had a chunk of long combos that did hella damage. But people were out there hitting 6 jabs in a combo and wanting them all to do full damage all the time. That'd be silly, not even anime games are that generous with starting a combo with 3 lights. Only game where you could feasibly do super high damage off of mashing light buttons was MvC3. Even in SF5, the characters that can do lights x 3 into special xx super basically drag down their overall damage too.

 

The super vs ultra situation isn't as stupid as it seems on top. My guess is that you didn't go that deep into otherwise you'd understand that there were characters who benefited greatly from saving for super. A lot of supers had significantly different properties than ultras. The fact that you could super cancel from specials made them really important in a lot of places. Rog with full super meter was a lot different than Rog with full ultra. He only has one route to ultra (which ends up with an ultra that is scaled heavily) or a super cancel that isn't scaled anywhere near as much.

 

Not only that but comboing into ultra was very meter and character dependent. Some characters could, some couldn't. That meant that whether you saved meter or not was also a character situation. On top of that, it made meter management way more important since you really needed to be stingy with meter. This is also in a game that had a lot of great EX moves. Ultras doing the heavy lifting in damage meant that how you used your meter also affected your ability to deal heavy damage for a comeback.

 

Which is a hilarious thing to be mad at SF4 for when SF5 is literally shitting meter all over the place. Hell they nerfed the meter gain and its still just throwing meter all over the place.  Ultras were pretty unlikeable. But they weren't nearly as bad as what SF5 does to the actual game and did for a number of years.  More random games were lost at the low and high level from crush counters and dumbshit v-triggers than ultras did.  Hell Ultras could never do the level of legitimately trash things that triggers have done to around of street fighter. Even the worst ultras were pretty tamed compared to what this game brought to the table. Saying ultras are bad but saying you'd take SF5 over them is like saying vodka is bad but you'll drink some backwater hillbilly grain alcohol instead.

 

 

 

The One Frame Link situation that DoctaMario was a double edge sword for the game. It made it tedious to play, hard for beginners and all that, but it gave characters a lot of juice. Balrog had way more useful links in SF4 than he does in SF5. Ryu is night and day with a bunch of his stuff too. Hell a lot of characters, in general, lost a lot of stuff. SF4 was just throwing people handy stuff all over the place. Guile and Chun could do st.lp, st.lp, st hp as a meter less combo and pop people extra hard for it. A bunch of other characters could link into sweep and start some offense from it.

 

The links didn't make it either bad or trash, but it made it tedious as hell and demanding. You know what other game is full of links? CvS2. A bunch of hard links all over the place and short confirms at high level.

 

Game feels ugly to walk around in for a lot of the cast, but SF5 got the same walkspeeds for decent amount of characters.

 

Seriously, I have gripes with SF4 but that game turned out great at high levels. This one has still been kinda samey in a lot of places but hey they added invinsible backdashes so hooray suddenly this game was saved.

 

Bad opinions all over the place.

 

🧐

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1 minute ago, Mattatsu said:

It was when he said “and she’s great for you mashers out there” wasn’t it? 🤣

If the shoe fits... 😛

 

Jokes aside she seems to fit your speedy/aggressor streak and as EC mentioned she has some layers past that. Plus hey who doesn't like being able to just hammer on buttons sometimes? 

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19 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

If the shoe fits... 😛

 

Jokes aside she seems to fit your speedy/aggressor streak and as EC mentioned she has some layers past that. Plus hey who doesn't like being able to just hammer on buttons sometimes? 

Yeah, she seems like she suits me well. I’m also going to try out the monkey girl, but I absolutely love the drunken master style of kung fu, so while I usually hate characters with extra resources, I am definitely interested in trying him out.

 

really, a lot of this depends on how much I’m going to play the game post-strive. Pai seems like an easy character to pick up, but the old drunk seems like someone to master.

 

i’ll have a better idea after I get a few games in and go from there. Hopefully I can play tomorrow

Edited by Mattatsu
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Yeah I think pretty much everyone is in agreement with SF4's myriad issues, the only difference being how much each issue bothered you. 

 

I wasn't fond of jabby jab-jab, but the vortex meta made me drop the game. 

 

I didn't mind the 1f links much since I didn't use them and it gave pro players something to show me that I didn't see in ranked, but the ERyu loops later on in the game grew tiresome.

 

I didn't mind the clunky animations especially on Blanka after two weeks.

 

Still a good game overall and they did fix the vortex thing in a way. Kinda late though.

 

But mostly, the characters felt far more different from each other than the SFV cast does. I'm unclear why. 

 

If they hadn't reworked Juri and also kept Makoto I probably wouldn't miss it at all.

 

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2 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

SF5 is full of long combos that do no damage too. That isn't specific to SF4. Hell SF4 also had a chunk of long combos that did hella damage. But people were out there hitting 6 jabs in a combo and wanting them all to do full damage all the time. That'd be silly, not even anime games are that generous with starting a combo with 3 lights. Only game where you could feasibly do super high damage off of mashing light buttons was MvC3. Even in SF5, the characters that can do lights x 3 into special xx super basically drag down their overall damage too.

 

The super vs ultra situation isn't as stupid as it seems on top. My guess is that you didn't go that deep into otherwise you'd understand that there were characters who benefited greatly from saving for super. A lot of supers had significantly different properties than ultras. The fact that you could super cancel from specials made them really important in a lot of places. Rog with full super meter was a lot different than Rog with full ultra. He only has one route to ultra (which ends up with an ultra that is scaled heavily) or a super cancel that isn't scaled anywhere near as much.

 

Not only that but comboing into ultra was very meter and character dependent. Some characters could, some couldn't. That meant that whether you saved meter or not was also a character situation. On top of that, it made meter management way more important since you really needed to be stingy with meter. This is also in a game that had a lot of great EX moves. Ultras doing the heavy lifting in damage meant that how you used your meter also affected your ability to deal heavy damage for a comeback.

 

Which is a hilarious thing to be mad at SF4 for when SF5 is literally shitting meter all over the place. Hell they nerfed the meter gain and its still just throwing meter all over the place.  Ultras were pretty unlikeable. But they weren't nearly as bad as what SF5 does to the actual game and did for a number of years.  More random games were lost at the low and high level from crush counters and dumbshit v-triggers than ultras did.  Hell Ultras could never do the level of legitimately trash things that triggers have done to around of street fighter. Even the worst ultras were pretty tamed compared to what this game brought to the table. Saying ultras are bad but saying you'd take SF5 over them is like saying vodka is bad but you'll drink some backwater hillbilly grain alcohol instead.

 

 

 

The One Frame Link situation that DoctaMario was a double edge sword for the game. It made it tedious to play, hard for beginners and all that, but it gave characters a lot of juice. Balrog had way more useful links in SF4 than he does in SF5. Ryu is night and day with a bunch of his stuff too. Hell a lot of characters, in general, lost a lot of stuff. SF4 was just throwing people handy stuff all over the place. Guile and Chun could do st.lp, st.lp, st hp as a meter less combo and pop people extra hard for it. A bunch of other characters could link into sweep and start some offense from it.

 

The links didn't make it either bad or trash, but it made it tedious as hell and demanding. You know what other game is full of links? CvS2. A bunch of hard links all over the place and short confirms at high level.

 

Game feels ugly to walk around in for a lot of the cast, but SF5 got the same walkspeeds for decent amount of characters.

 

Seriously, I have gripes with SF4 but that game turned out great at high levels. This one has still been kinda samey in a lot of places but hey they added invinsible backdashes so hooray suddenly this game was saved.

 

Bad opinions all over the place.

 

🧐

You can post all the Dime length posts you like. Not going to change the fact that I don't like SFIV. People have different tastes and different takes. You can think that opinion is bad all you want. It's not new nor I have made a secret of it. Been saying this for over a half decade at this point. Not sure why it's so important to you all of a sudden.

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I haven't played SFIV since SFV came out but one thing I prefer (going by memory) is that it just felt a lot more snappy. I never bothered checking the frame data of this stuff but block and hitstun felt shorter in that game which made interactions feel more responsive. It was also easier to quickly react with a crouching heavy as an AA and I just preferred the overall movement of characters in that game. But that's just a preference thing. For example, 5 minutes into the Strive beta, I knew for sure I'd never play that game due to how movement works.

 

Also, I wish my Pad didn't commit suicide a week ago, I'd really like to check out VF5 and see if I can remember more than three moves with Aoi. Not surprised the netcode is solid. People look at rollback like the holy grail of things but if you're sitting in Europe like me and everyone is close together anyway, the classic delay stuff can work just fine. The main problem here is just wifi I think, because back when consoles didn't have in-built wifi, delay-based FG didn't feel randomly bad from one match to the next. 

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20 hours ago, Reticently said:

iDom tier list.  Seems mostly right, +/- a tier on some characters.  A few left field choices though (Falke?).

 

 

 

That's a whacky tier list. 

 

Right away feels like there is way too many tiers. It looks really silly the gaps between characters dont feel as big as whst that many tiers traditionally implies.

 

Blanks, Nash, Zangief, Ed, Ken, Rose, Lucia  all feel too low. Ken's changes are shaping up to be the most significant in this recent patch now he has the highest meterless punishes in this game and cr.hp is one of best heavy buttons in the game. The new HP DP is a meance in neutral.

 

 I get why Zangief is seen as in the trashcan but he nearly won two events post-nerf already  and the Abigail match up one of his worst is actually much better on him now. Zangief reception  feels like Dhalsim all over again players in the west screaming he is dead because of a wrist slap  when he is stronger than ever because of V-Shift. I fear Capcom is gonna buff his ass with all this mourning over Zangreif's corpse in America.

 

Chun, Zeku, Menat, Mika, Juri feel too high. Zeku is strong but god is he the most overrated character in the game in NA for an "S tier character" . Chun cant anti air to save her life her matches are very polarizing so understandable. Menat better than Dhalsim this season is absurd that man is cooking with god's oil this season.

 

Mika is played by one guy has obvious flaws while she is not on Laura's level as a grappler. Same for Juri as much as I like JustAKid he is always over estimating Juri. Infiltration loves Juri and does better with her even he thinks she is in a meh state. How the fuck you gonna rate Juri over new Nash? lol

 

This tier list is good example of why Japanese top players dont often make tier lists without a roundtable effort.

 

NA tier lists usually feel like emotional speculation which I dont mind but people think it's the gospel.  This patch is a week old. lol

Edited by HonebamiX
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6 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

But mostly, the characters felt far more different from each other than the SFV cast does. I'm unclear why. 

They probably were. I have very little practical experience with SFIV (I'm with Darc on that game) but I do have some time in on SFV and one of the things with this game is that the characters all feel kind of homogeneous. There is a lot of frame data repeated throughout the cast(probably unavoidable as it creeps up to 45 chars) which I feel like you really feel around the mediums (strong/forward). In a game where you hit a lot of medium buttons having them all feel kind of samey does make the cast kind of blend together that way.

 

 Over time I've become a member of the "missing prox normals" camp, just for the variety they'd add to the up close game. Regardless of the specifics I think the devs probably though/hoped that the V system would provide that strong character individuality but I don't think it quite worked out that way. 

3 hours ago, HonebamiX said:

Right away feels like there is way too many tiers. It looks really silly the gaps between characters dont feel as big as whst that many tiers traditionally implies.

I think its mostly to prompt some kind of discussion. An honest tier list of this game has a shitload of people hanging out in the middle with most of the discussion revolving around who is tops or knocking on that door. And since those characters haven't shifted all that much over the course of the game's life I think at this point long term players are sick of those discussions. So why not slice it up into 12 different tiers and then let people argue over if their character is C or C- or Clambda.

Edited by GetTheTables
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9 hours ago, Sonero said:

snip

I don’t hate SF4 like the other guys here but “SFV is also bad bc XYZ” does not make SF4 a good game. 
 

They gave valid reasons why they think the game is trash. Not sure why you’re trying to die on this hill since it’s all just opinions.

 

Edit: For me no prox normals, no 1f links, and crossplay are enough for me to never go back to SF4. That said I can’t see myself going back to 4 or 5 in the future.

Edited by Vhozite
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3 hours ago, HonebamiX said:

Right away feels like there is way too many tiers. It looks really silly the gaps between characters dont feel as big as whst that many tiers traditionally implies.

I think it's less crazy than it might look.  While I generally disagree with having an 'S' tier when there are going to be 7 characters in it, they only used 3 letter grades, showing how the strength distribution is pretty compressed right now.  (Gotta count the + and - tiers as half steps within an actual tier.)

 

Then when you look at how they placed the characters themselves, there are only really two clusters going on:  S through A, and A- through B-.  If you look at which of those two clusters each character ended up in, there's a lot less to nitpick.  Maybe I'd swap clusters for Menat and Ibuki (but tbf my main does a lot better against Menat than against Ibuki).

 

I think everybody knows that tier lists like these are really just guesstimates.  But it's hard to get high quality data to do match-up charts that aren't also just based on guesstimates.

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50 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

They probably were. I have very little practical experience with SFIV (I'm with Darc on that game) but I do have some time in on SFV and one of the things with this game is that the characters all feel kind of homogeneous. There is a lot of frame data repeated throughout the cast(probably unavoidable as it creeps up to 45 chars) which I feel like you really feel around the mediums (strong/forward). In a game where you hit a lot of medium buttons having them all feel kind of samey does make the cast kind of blend together that way.

 

I think that's also the reason why SFIV was (arguably?) more fun to watch. Even a character as universally despised as Fuerte instantly became a crowd magnet the moment someone actually picked him in a tournament. I remember all the hype about Pepeday, or when Infilitration counter-picked PR Balrog with Hakan, or Xian's famous switch from overused-top-tier Yun to extremely-strong-but-never-used Gen, or Valle beating Bonchan with Hugo etc.

 

In SFV, if you watch a tournament and someone pops up with FANG, Falke or Blanka you might raise an eyebrow but then they just proceed to lose while doing the same stuff you've seen from replays on CFN already. It's just not the same.

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