Fighting Game Concepts & Fundamentals Thread

[Sonero]

A long time ago Justin Wong used to write for Eventhubs. Either in one of his articles or in an interview (I'll dig it up later) he said that all fighting games were basically the same. That made me very curious because it was a completely different take on playing fighting games than the general wisdom at the time.  This thread is to explore videos and discuss fundamental parts of fighting game. The hope is to have videos, articles and hopefully discussion that helps you improve overall. Instead of looking at a specific (say throwing somebody), you read and watch relevant info on those types of interactions to help yourself improve.

 

This thread won't have videos exclusive to any one game or series. As I fill it out, and as I hope you guys help, we can take videos that discuss the aspects of fighting games that are universal and can be extrapolated to other games. If the Street Fighter approach to spacing doesn't help you, maybe looking at it through a Tekken lense will.

 

Years ago I was playing Soul Calibur 4 at my friends house. I entered a random lounge with Mitsurugi and was just running the table with by forcing people into a 50/50 between Mitsurugi's 2K (which was a low that lead to a knockdown) and throw as they woke up. This probably frustrated a bunch of unsuspecting people on end, made my friend laughed as I explained it, and gave me a massive giggle at the silliness of the situation (yes yes, they could've just crouch blocked but hey, conditioning and all that jazz..and bopping them on the head with a standing B so they quit their crouching, leave me alone, we're thinking conceptually here).

 

That is the general idea.

 

The first post is the Footsies Handbook. This is full of short sentences of elements of playing footsies. Maj went through the trouble of  finding examples for everything too. Any time you feel you have a problem with your ground game, this is where you should go to see what you can add to your game that you may be lacking.

 

I'll try, and hope you guys do as well, add a description of what is contained in the video or article. That way people can have an idea on their way to looking for material:

 

https://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

 

Next video is on applying safe pressure. It uses SF4 as it main game to explain the concepts. What's great about it is the breakdown of some things you should be paying attention to as you pressure people:

 

 

[Sonero]

Brain F talking about shimmies. He goes over the cycle of decisions you make on wake up in SF5  (block meaty, tech throw etc). he also discusses why not every situation where you have frame advantage is the same as far as shimmying and pressure goes.

 

 

This one talks about Devil Jin Fundamentals (and by extension tekken ones). In discussing Devil Jin, it goes into a discussion of restricting movement and why it makes characters powerful.

 

 

[Sonero]

The old man Highlandfireball AKA Total Sagat giving a good run down on some of the basics of tossing fireballs. This focuses on Sagat but the ideas are present in a lot of other games.

 

 

[GetTheTables]

Here is a vid that helped me a lot when I was trying to wrap my head around SF (specifically 5). You hear and read a lot about footsies: what it is, what it isn't, how to do it, etc.  This is one of the most accessible definitions I found that also illustrates why it can be a very simple concept to explain but is actually very complex to implement in matches.

 

It touches on the mental aspects of footsies and player interaction that are important to FGs in general. And in sort of a second hand way shows how you can really leverage training mode to experiment with and practice things that aren't just combos.

 

 

[KingTubb]

A quick vid on "turns" by Floe

 

[DoctaMario]

I agree with Justin that fighting games are mostly the same. A lot of it is space control with your character's moves, knowing your character so well that you can bust out their options without thinking about it, and knowing which of those options is the best option given matchups/situations/etc. 

 

But getting to that point can take a long long time. 

[KingTubb]

46 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

I agree with Justin that fighting games are mostly the same.

The man went to grand finals in Street Fighter EX2 at combo breaker last year playing ryu only  using sweep, forward, fireball and super. 

 

You can feel the salt pouring out of this video with all the other players who actually play this game:

It's a glowing example that true fundamentals are gonna make you great at most games 

Edited October 20, 2020 by KingTubb

[Psychoblue]

  

 

Using the power of applied behavior analysis to learn those minute long combos.  

[DoctaMario]

3 hours ago, KingTubb said:

The man went to grand finals in Street Fighter EX2 at combo breaker last year playing ryu only  using sweep, forward, fireball and super. 

 

You can feel the salt pouring out of this video with all the other players who actually play this game:

It's a glowing example that true fundamentals are gonna make you great at most games 

Playing SamSho5Sp really buffed up my fundamentals, but even before that, I went through a period of a few months where I played nothing but Ryu in this Korean SF4 mobile game (it had pay to win super buff characters but I was just using an A tier Ryu) and it really made my fundamentals improve because most of the time I was facing people with characters that could 4 shot me so everything had to count.

 

I've beaten people who were probably better overall players than me just because my fundamentals and spacing were better than theirs. I feel fortunate to have grown up in a time when most fighting games really only offered largely fundamentals rather than games that emphasize subsystems and big combos. I think that's why a lot of newer players take so long to learn the footsies stuff, because there's so much else to learn. 

 

Playing Ryu mirrors is a really great way to improve fundamentals because in most SF games, he has an answer to everything, it's just not always the most overwhelmingly great answer. 

 

Speaking of fundamentals, did anyone play that Footsies! game? It was fun, although my phone really played it sluggishly after awhile. :(

Edited October 20, 2020 by DoctaMario

[M A R T I A N]

These just kinda belong here. 

 

Various analysis of concepts within fighting game culture:

 

And these are more an analysis of actual concepts in fighting games themselves:

 

 

 

 

Honestly, this guy has so many videos that I feel like are staples, it would be obnoxious to post them all. But I feel these are some of the more important ones to watch. 

 

Easily my favorite fighting game channel, and one of my favorites period. His style, presentation and ability to thoughtfully explain and dissect fighting game concepts is pretty much untouchable. 

[M A R T I A N]

Like, I love the way he correlates emotional involvement to being the best. 

 

"Unless the trainee stays emotionally involved and accepts the joy of a job well done, as well as the remorse of mistakes, he or she will not develop further and eventually burn out" 

 

If you're not emotionally involved in your desire to get better, there's no way you could be the best. The salt of a loss is just as much of a stepping stool as the euphoria of a win. It's great that he even uses so many references to Daigo's book, which talks a lot about this stuff. 

 

Probably the most potent video on his channel you could show to a struggling newcomer. It sets you up with the right attitude to approach these games. 

[DoctaMario]

41 minutes ago, M A R T I A N said:

Like, I love the way he correlates emotional involvement to being the best. 

 

"Unless the trainee stays emotionally involved and accepts the joy of a job well done, as well as the remorse of mistakes, he or she will not develop further and eventually burn out" 

 

If you're not emotionally involved in your desire to get better, there's no way you could be the best. The salt of a loss is just as much of a stepping stool as the euphoria of a win. It's great that he even uses so many references to Daigo's book, which talks a lot about this stuff. 

 

Probably the most potent video on his channel you could show to a struggling newcomer. It sets you up with the right attitude to approach these games. 

I agree with all that. Someone on SRK had a signature about some MVC player who it was said would win a lot less if they stopped hating themselves for losing and while I think it was meant to be a joke, I think there's some truth to that. Especially if you love the game. 

 

There's a joy to being beaten by someone you know is much much better than you but you're able to hang with them a bit better than you were last week, and there's a sting to losing that someone who is more casual will never know. And then there's winning especially against someone who is on your level or better. Even just hitting the training room to goof around and finding something you think it's possible no one has figured out yet. 

 

This thread is making me miss my competitive days! 

 

If you aren't emotionally invested in whatever it is you're working at, whatever it is, how can you ever really improve? 

Edited October 21, 2020 by DoctaMario

[Volt]

JWong's EHubs column:

 

https://www.eventhubs.com/columns/

 

Airdash Academy and Exploring Fighting Games playlists:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Novril makes some awesome content. Sure, most of it is targeted at anime players, but there's a lot to be learned by all players here, especially when it comes to fundamentals.

[KingTubb]

2 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

play that Footsies!

Whooped my 6 year old nephew’s ass so hard in that shit 😤  it’s a pretty fun game 

[Psychoblue]

 

 

An unlikely source but nevertheless a great addition for this thread.  BASED Capcom

[Sonero]

JWong's The Art of Lame. Its a bit of a lengthy video where he discusses some his approach to playing lame. There are video examples to some of the situations he discusses (risking missing a meaty, avoiding hitting big buttons etc). The great thing about its is that, fighting games having shifts in moments and strategic shifts, he discusses the process of it.

 

I kinda wish we had more of these types of vids out there. You don't often get to hear the thought process behind a piece of gameplay or a set of decisions. In that way, this one is full of a lot of small ideas you can use to view a situation and review your gameplay with:

 

 

[KingTubb]

Anyone have any good VODs or essays about dealing with rushdown? That's one of my biggest problems, if you start to get in my face and press all the buttons I end up buttoning up and eating a throw, or pressing a buttons and getting combo'd.

 

Trying to find something, but am hoping one of y'all have something on deck to save me the research🙏

[misterBee]

3 hours ago, KingTubb said:

Anyone have any good VODs or essays about dealing with rushdown? That's one of my biggest problems, if you start to get in my face and press all the buttons I end up buttoning up and eating a throw, or pressing a buttons and getting combo'd.

 

Trying to find something, but am hoping one of y'all have something on deck to save me the research🙏

I don't have a specific video or link to send you, but the basic premise is the same for every game.

1. Know your options
2. Know your opponent's options
3. Be patient

Part of it is game knowledge and understanding what both you and your opponent can do.  In some games you have to be aware of instant air dash.  In others you need to worry about being crossed up in the corner.  You need to understand all the types of things your opponent can do to you and understand the appropriate actions that need to be taken to defend against them.

 

Once you know what kind of attacks are coming and what  your own options are, the second and larger part is simply being patient and having good defense.  Unless the game you are playing is horribly busted, your opponent's pressure will always end at some point.  In some anime games pressure won't end unless you properly use a defensive mechanic.  In others it's simply a matter of waiting.  If you understand the game well enough you will know where the gap in their pressure exists and be able to get out of the situation or try to counter-attack.

 

At a basic level it's simply a matter of blocking everything and just waiting for your turn.  A lot of new players often get destroyed because they don't take the opportunity to escape when it presents itself or try to mash their way out at the wrong time.  Just keep cool and you'll get your chance to turn things around.

[Shakunetsu]

Hey guys what are the pet-peeves special moves and throw animation that you dislike in most 90s SNK/Neogeo FGs.

 

It can be something...

that the animation takes too long  that is cause the timer run out

Annoying or weird animation

The animation and visual doesn't make sense 

The animation look underwhelming or too exaggerate for move

 

Thanks

Edited October 23, 2020 by Shakunetsu

[KingTubb]

14 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

that the animation takes too long  that is cause the timer run out

Annoying or weird animation

The animation and visual doesn't make sense 

The animation look underwhelming or too exaggerate for move

I know you're talking about SNK, but this is a big issue I have with NRS games... Like all of these things

[Shakunetsu]

Hi Is there a fighting game that has a good mode dedicated on teaching the player tech like footsies, zoning, 50/50 and etc.

 

 

Not just the basic combos and execution of special moves?

 

Thanks

[Hecatom]

 

[Hecatom]

On 10/25/2020 at 2:45 AM, Shakunetsu said:

Hi Is there a fighting game that has a good mode dedicated on teaching the player tech like footsies, zoning, 50/50 and etc.

 

 

Not just the basic combos and execution of special moves?

 

Thanks

Last time i checked GGXrd, BB and BBTAG, MK11 and i think KI have tutorials that explain fg concepts and go in depth wth their mechanics also explaining the roles of the chars in terms of gameplay and what their specials do. 

 

Xrd has even challenges around understanding said mechanics and fg concepts. 

 

I am not sure, but i think  GBFVS also has them. 

[DoctaMario]

On 10/25/2020 at 3:45 AM, Shakunetsu said:

Hi Is there a fighting game that has a good mode dedicated on teaching the player tech like footsies, zoning, 50/50 and etc.

 

 

Not just the basic combos and execution of special moves?

 

Thanks

Street fighter 2

[Sonero]

 

[Sonero]

 

[Sonero]

 

[Shakunetsu]

 

[NESiCA]

I was trying to understand the logic of Archetypes in fighting games.
There are RushDowns, Grapplers, Zoners and in the middle Shoto.
Obviously there are subcategories (standard Zoner, Melee-MidRange or Trapper for example), but always that they fall within the 3 large blocks.
Then there are the "Styles" that can be Normal, Charge, Stance, Rekka, and maybe others that i can't remember.
However there are characters that i struggle to "Classify".
For example Paul Phoenix or  Zankuro Minazuki (Samurai Shodown) are RushDown? But they are not fast... Zankuro is a kind of Shoto?
How do you classify those characters that are slow, hit hard but are NOT Grapplers?
While the characters that have many dashes/high mobility, do they have a particular name?
And Aerial is a style or another category?

Someone says Mix-Up but i don't think it's an archetype but more of a tactic.

Stance is an "Archetype"? Or style? After all a character could have a Grapplers Stance and a Shoto or Rushdown Stance.

Is Puppets a category in itself? Or is it a sub-category that can belong to any of the 3 big groups?
I know that are a lot of questions...

 

-Thanks for your patience.