The Samurai Shodown Thread

DoctaMario · January 28, 2021

On 1/26/2021 at 8:10 PM, Mattatsu said:

Just played my second ranked set and this time I chose to fight an opponent at a similar rank, allowed for any region, but the connection had to be level 3 and up, and again, found someone like right away, and the connection seemed fine to me.

i would like there to be a delay indicator so i know how off it is, but it always feels like it’s under 6 frames to me, as that’s when i start to notice it in other games.

also, i kinda wish you lost points for a loss in ranked. The guy i fought was 5th Dan, but had like a 17% win rate and I beat him 7-1... i don't mind because i likely got more points from those wins, but it always makes “rank” kinda pointless. I’ve just been picking it these last two nights because you can search for matches while in training, but it’s never really taken long enough to where it mattered.

Even on Switch I can always find at least a couple people to play with. Its not SFV populated but it's not like you can't find anyone so 🤷

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

On 1/27/2021 at 2:35 AM, Darc_Requiem said:

Well that really isn't accurate at all. SNK straight up lied about the PC release of the game. They said the PC release wasn't going to be exclusive. Then they went radio silent put on Stadia version and then they put the game out a year late on the Epic store exclusively. So honestly they got what they deserve. Showing up late after lying to your customer base isn't exactly a way to garner sales.

LMAO, BOOO HOOO, the game is "exclussive" to a different storefront, SNK deserves to go bankrupt.

Man, that is some really entilted gamer logic right there.

Nigga, in the business world deals are made that change plans all the time.

Is not like you cant buy or play the game on your pc because is on Epic.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Hecatom

Darc_Requiem · January 29, 2021

2 hours ago, Hecatom said:

LMAO, BOOO HOOO, the game is "exclussive" to a different storefront, SNK deserves to go bankrupt.

Man, that is some really entilted gamer logic right there.

Nigga, in the business world deals are made that change plans all the time.

Is not like you cant buy or play the game on your pc because is on Epic.

Not sure what you are laughing about. I don't really care, I wasn't going buy SS on PC anyway. SNK netcode and no crossplay means no online player base and piss poor overall experience. I'm not entitled to anything from SNK and they conversely aren't entitled to my money. I'm going to call a company on their bullshit regardless of whether you like it or not. Regardless of whether I like the company or not. I didn't make SNK say they'd wouldn't make it Epic Store exclusive, go radio silent, then make it Epic Store exclusive. This isn't an Epic vs Steam issue. It's SNK lying off their ass issue. If you don't a problem that, you are just bad as Darksakul is about MS.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Darc_Requiem

DoctaMario · January 29, 2021

Do people think crossplay is going to be a standard thing at some point? There are people whining about it on reddit constantly all the time as if SNK is that company that's going to shell out money for its own servers.

Edited January 29, 2021 by DoctaMario

Darc_Requiem · January 29, 2021

49 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Do people think crossplay is going to be a standard thing at some point? There are people whining about it on reddit constantly all the time as if SNK is that company that's going to shell out money for its own servers.

N-Way, the developer behind Power Ranges Battle of the Grid, instituted crossplay between all platforms. It's a budget title, so I can't imagine crossplay is that costly to implement. A few games, before it became official, enable it by accident. I mean they even included fucking Stadia in the game's crossplay.

https://www.vg247.com/2020/05/29/power-rangers-battle-for-the-grid-cross-play-5-platforms-first/

Edited January 29, 2021 by Darc_Requiem
Listed the incorrect developer for Power Rangers

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

38 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Do people think crossplay is going to be a standard thing at some point? There are people whining about it on reddit constantly all the time as if SNK is that company that's going to shell out money for its own servers.

People just assume that Crossplay is a really easy thing to do.

Ignoring the fact that it requires for devs to invest on the servers and infrastructure required to it.

They see a couple of games doing it and inmediately think that it should be a standard.

At the moment, i think only 2 games allow for crossplay between consoles and PC.

SFV and PRBotG.

Outside that, is something i dont really see any company investing on unless it proves to be something that actually moves unit.

And seeing how rollback has taken time to become a standard, crossplay wouldnt be a thing for a long time.

Hell, not even games made by big companies like Fifa are crossplay and mofos want smaller companies to do it and get mad when is not happening.

Is freaking hilarious..

Darc_Requiem · January 29, 2021

1 minute ago, Hecatom said:

Hell, not even games made by big companies like Fifa are crossplay and mofos want smaller companies to do it and get mad when is not happening.

Is freaking hilarious..

Not good example. EA doesn't give a damn about anything but Ultimate Team. So unless loot boxes get banished to the phantom zone and/or they lose exclusivity rights, they are going to do the bare minimum possible to collect those MTX.

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

1 minute ago, Darc_Requiem said:

N-Space, the developer behind Power Ranges Battle of the Grid, instituted crossplay between all platforms. It's a budget title, so I can't imagine crossplay is that costly to implement. A few games, before it became official, enable it by accident. I mean they even included fucking Stadia in the game's crossplay.

https://www.vg247.com/2020/05/29/power-rangers-battle-for-the-grid-cross-play-5-platforms-first/

Lol, i knew that you were going to mention them when i was doing my reply.

It is costly.

The reason why BotG managed to do it is because they already have a existing infrastructure, since they are a mobile developers 1st and foremost.

And already had the whole thing set up before doing this game.

All the games that "enabled" by accident are games with dedicated infrastructure.

You dont see it happening on games that depend of the propietary servers of consoles/steam.

Just look how KI is not crossplay on PC with the version of the game that is on Steam with KI on the windows store and Xbox.

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

Not good example. EA doesn't give a damn about anything but Ultimate Team. So unless loot boxes get banished to the phantom zone and/or they lose exclusivity rights, they are going to do the bare minimum possible to collect those MTX.

Actually a great example.

Companies will only invest on thing that will move units.

Smaller companies invest on desired features to try to give an edge to their product against more well stablished brands.

And the fact that PRBotG is not exploding in popularity and sales tells us that people dont really give a damn about crossplay outside being a fucking meme, the same way that games with GGPO are not being the top sellers, hence rollback keeps being an after thought.

Darc_Requiem · January 29, 2021

N-Way is a small developer with 50 to 60 employees. They make SNK look like Capcom by comparison.

Edit: No Fifa is NOT a great example. Fighting games are niche. Having a large online community helps the games sell. FIFA on the other hand has no need for such a community to push sales because the game sells no matter what. Fighting games on PC have more of an uphill battle than their console brethren because of the smaller player base. People that would buy a fighting game on PC will pass because of they fear a lack of players. No one wants to sit around for ten minutes waiting for a game.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Darc_Requiem

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

Just now, Darc_Requiem said:

N-Way is a small developer with 50 to 60 employees. They make SNK look like Capcom by comparison.

Again, a mobile developer.

They offset their costs of running the infrastructure on being a budget product everywhere else and the servers also running the infrastructure of other games besides PRBotG.

I am 100% sure that if they only had the infrastructure in place for that game, they would have been going under a long time ago, since is clear that the game doesnt have sold well enough neither has a monetization scheme that allows them to have the severs just running for that game.

You can believe whatever shit you want, but it doesnt change the fact that running your own infrastructure has monthly costs attached to it that unless it is paying itself in some way, like having your servers also hosting multiple mobile games creating revenue for example, then you wouldnt see companies like SNK doing something similar in the near future.

Perhaps now that they are owned by some chinese company there is a chance, but 1st i would be more interested on companies investing on good netcode before asking for crossplay.

One step at the time.

Hawkingbird · January 29, 2021

4 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Lol, i knew that you were going to mention them when i was doing my reply.

It is costly.

The reason why BotG managed to do it is because they already have a existing infrastructure, since they are a mobile developers 1st and foremost.

And already had the whole thing set up before doing this game.

All the games that "enabled" by accident are games with dedicated infrastructure.

You dont see it happening on games that depend of the propietary servers of consoles/steam.

Just look how KI is not crossplay on PC with the version of the game that is on Steam with KI on the windows store and Xbox.

Actually there is crossplay between the Steam and Windows store version of KI. I managed to play with someone here who has the windows store version. Making it happen is a bitch since we can't directly invite each other.

Crossplay should be a standard simply because there's no technical limitation to stop it from happening. Master Chief collection recently added Crossplay between PC and console. I believe Brawlhalla is another fighter with full on crossplay

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

Just now, Hawkingbird said:

Actually there is crossplay between the Steam and Windows store version of KI. I managed to play with someone here who has the windows store version. Making it happen is a bitch since we can't directly invite each other.

Crossplay should be a standard simply because there's no technical limitation to stop it from happening. Master Chief collection recently added Crossplay between PC and console. I believe Brawlhalla is another fighter with full on crossplay

Oh nice, last time i played it didnt had crossplay, so is nice to know that they fixed that.

And while i agree that crossplay is desirable.

No, there are actual limitations that prevent being a standard.

Due the costs attached to it, it will always be an extra feature for most games.

Brawlhalla for example is a free to play game that is not only on consoles, but mobile with a monetization scheme that allows it to offset the costs attached to their own network infrastructure.

Like i said, niggas just ask for it because is convenient, but completly ignore that is not an easy thing to set up.

You have server costs, employee costs, bandwith costs, etc, etc.

Even now that you have shit like Amazon, Google, Microsoft and other server spaces for rent, you still have costs that can ballon out of control depending of the traffic your servers are getting.

You both are my peeps, but man, you are sounding super ignorant right now, thinking is just a matter of just wanting to do it.

Darc_Requiem · January 29, 2021

9 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Again, a mobile developer.

They offset their costs of running the infrastructure on being a budget product everywhere else and the servers also running the infrastructure of other games besides PRBotG.

I am 100% sure that if they only had the infrastructure in place for that game, they would have been going under a long time ago, since is clear that the game doesnt have sold well enough neither has a monetization scheme that allows them to have the severs just running for that game.

You can believe whatever shit you want, but it doesnt change the fact that running your own infrastructure has monthly costs attached to it that unless it is paying itself in some way, like having your servers also hosting multiple mobile games creating revenue for example, then you wouldnt see companies like SNK doing something similar in the near future.

Perhaps now that they are owned by some chinese company there is a chance, but 1st i would be more interested on companies investing on good netcode before asking for crossplay.

One step at the time.

SNK has been owned by a Chinese company for several years now. The purchase occurred before KOFXIV released. IIRC This happened in 2015

Hawkingbird · January 29, 2021

18 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Like i said, niggas just ask for it because is convenient, but completly ignore that is not an easy thing to set up.

You have server costs, employee costs, bandwith costs, etc, etc.

Even now that you have shit like Amazon, Google, Microsoft and other server spaces for rent, you still have costs that can ballon out of control depending of the traffic your servers are getting.

You both are my peeps, but man, you are sounding super ignorant right now, thinking is just a matter of just wanting to do it.

The logistics of it all is something I never thought admittedly.

20 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

SNK has been owned by a Chinese company for several years now. The purchase occurred before KOFXIV released. IIRC This happened in 2015

Now they have Saudi blood money. What good that does them depends on how much support the parent company gives them.

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

49 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

SNK has been owned by a Chinese company for several years now. The purchase occurred before KOFXIV released. IIRC This happened in 2015

I know, but the buyout started after the production of KOFXIV started, and didnt finalize until after the game came out.

KOFXIV still had to be made under the near bankrupt circumstances that SNK had at the moment.

It was also a partial buyout, and for all we saw, the comnpany was more interested on having access to the ips so they could use them on mobile games but not much into investing on SNK itself to allow them have more strong productions.

Even now that they have the Saudi money we still cant be sure they will actually have a more evident bennefit from it, at least not immediately.

Hecatom · January 29, 2021

26 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

The logistics of it all is something I never thought admittedly.

Now they have Saudi blood money. What good that does them depends on how much support the parent company gives them.

The sad thing is that not many people think about the logistics most of the time.

I have the bennefit of working on the software development industry so i have a decent idea of the problems that can arise when trying to implement crossplay.

Just to give you an idea, just one server with moderate traffic can cost you up to $2000.

For something like crossplay you would require not only regional servers for at least the major regions (with each regions having multiple servers depending on their size), but also redundancies so if there is downtime on one, you still have the network working.

Add that you also usually set the infrastructure on layers that each one handles specific tasks/areas, so that means you have additional servers/server space for the different layers, like for example Matchmaking, traffic, accounts, logs, databases, proxies, firewall and other security measures, etc. Something that i am oversimplifying, and that btw, can vary from project to project depending on their necesities, but is to give you an idea.

Of course, depending on how you design your stuff, you would have more than one stuff in a place, but you usually want to keep certain things separated all the time.

Then this brings the need to have both employees that need to keep the network working, but also secure, which, will depend of the type of approach you have for your network infrastructure.

Even when you have your servers on the cloud, you still need people working on it, and since you require it to be 24/7 you can see how it piles into the costs.

I totally understand why crossplay is more than desirable, since it allows for niche games to have a more broad player base regardless of the platform, but sadly is not an easy thing to see happen.

For Crossplay to become a standard you would need for MS, Sony and Steam to be willing to play ball with each other for all the games that rely on their servers to host shit like match making and other clients.

If not, then is something that will depend of the capacity of each company, and how they can support the infrastructure.

DoctaMario · January 30, 2021

A lot of the people I've seen wanting crossplay are people that can't bebotherrd to get on discord to find matches which says to me that even if there was crossplay, they STILL wouldn't be playing the game.

DoctaMario · January 30, 2021

Two of the best SamShoVSp players playing a set here. From Beyond is the best I've ever played and probably the best 5 Special player in the world imo. Png came up playing basically no one but From Beyond for about two years. Lot of really great tech in this set!

Hecatom · January 30, 2021

Will people gonna play today?

Emptyeyes · February 1, 2021

I like the series, but I just have mixed feelings of leaning toward the new one as ill-advised to bother with any further, because I don't like the 3d in 2d fighting games, and it seems more lenient in utilizing the super meter, which other newer generation games fall into this. I have prehistoric tastes and very picky when it comes to this genre, so having more options to win when losing on that subject turns me off, as I've never cared for supers. However, it doesn't make games after the pre-super era bad games.

Currently, Samurai Shodown 5 Perfect is my favorite along with the second one.

DoctaMario · February 3, 2021

On 1/31/2021 at 7:29 PM, Emptyeyes said:

Currently, Samurai Shodown 5 Perfect is my favorite along with the second one.

I'm yet to check out 5 Perfect because I can't really make myself pull the trigger on the neo geo collection at those prices, especially if there's no training mode, the netcode is wack, and the games are a ghost town online. 😞

Emptyeyes · February 3, 2021

30 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

I'm yet to check out 5 Perfect because I can't really make myself pull the trigger on the neo geo collection at those prices, especially if there's no training mode, the netcode is wack, and the games are a ghost town online. 😞

That's definitely fair. I have the same problem finding matches from the new one on the Nintendo Switch. I should give it another chance.

Something I could compliment from this series is that it mostly stays true to the previous installations. As much as like fighting games with a unique system on combo emphasis, I had to accept recently that I don't have the memory capacity anymore to be gradual in my progress with those newer games, as I usually go for all character combos, all character fundamental tools, applied to all character matchups to preserve the game's life. So, Samurai Shodown makes me grateful of it's existence, due to how basic, yet unique it is.

Hecatom · February 4, 2021

2 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

I'm yet to check out 5 Perfect because I can't really make myself pull the trigger on the neo geo collection at those prices, especially if there's no training mode, the netcode is wack, and the games are a ghost town online. 😞

Didn't you get it for free on the Epic store?

DoctaMario · February 4, 2021

24 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Didn't you get it for free on the Epic store?

I did but it won't run on my PC. I have an Intel chip and apparently the specs for these old ass neo geo games is more than my PC can handle 🙄 (noting that I play half of them on fightcade and the steam version of 5Sp also.)

Hecatom · February 4, 2021

19 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

I did but it won't run on my PC. I have an Intel chip and apparently the specs for these old ass neo geo games is more than my PC can handle 🙄 (noting that I play half of them on fightcade and the steam version of 5Sp also.)

I wonder if is because the way they handled the netcode and the online connectivity that has with Epic.

DoctaMario · February 5, 2021

2 hours ago, Hecatom said:

I wonder if is because the way they handled the netcode and the online connectivity that has with Epic.

I don't know but the menus don't show up, the games won't even start....it's a fucking travesty because a SamSho collection like that should be like shooting fish in a barrel. As it is, I'd say that SamSho Anthology that came out on PS2 and PSP is better. I actually downloaded and tried out the Wii version on an emu but it feels really off and weird and I'm not sure if it's the port or just the emulator. But at least it has training mode.

Hecatom · March 4, 2021

Emptyeyes · March 5, 2021

Lately, after spending time on it, I seem to gradually liking the new one for what it is. Over the years, I've turned less engaged into the genre, feeling much more relaxed, casting aside the feeling of intensity and ambition from the competitive sense. I guess there's nothing wrong with being casual, being a few years away from 40.

I found that using the whole cast and progressing that way have it's benefits, as I would keep coming back to this game due to the alternative, and others to preserve the genre's life.

Hecatom · March 7, 2021

Dragonfave723 · March 9, 2021

Cham Cham theme song and showcase video:

Emptyeyes · March 9, 2021

The competition from the Nintendo Switch version is where it should be, while still having some recollection of most matches being very close and enjoyable in it's rhythm and movement. I appreciate those that stayed around in order for both them and me to grow in the process and honoring each other's interpretations. While the online is underwhelming in activity, but it's functionality is just a plus. Having the game itself is all that matters.

Hopefully, I could return to the offline tournament scene. It was very thrilling back then.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Emptyeyes

Hawkingbird · March 27, 2021

I renewed my PS+. If anyone wants to do Sam Sho here I'm available.

Hecatom · March 27, 2021

2 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

I renewed my PS+. If anyone wants to do Sam Sho here I'm available.

I am free on wednesdays and thursdays, and usually i am free every day from 9pm central time onwards.

We can try and see how good our connections are.

I think i already have you on my PSN friendlist, right?

Hawkingbird · March 27, 2021

20 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

I think i already have you on my PSN friendlist, right?

I'm not sure. My PSN is the same as my username here just in case.

DoctaMario · May 7, 2021

Just bought the new season pass today, and I'm hoping the rumor that Amakusa is the next character is true.

This video has some insane combos in it. 5 Special is such an amazing game, it's criminal that so many people sleep on it

Hawkingbird · May 16, 2021

@DoctaMario @Hecatom

I renewed my PS+. I'm down for 2019 Sam Sho whenever you guys are.

Hecatom · May 16, 2021

1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

@DoctaMario @Hecatom

I renewed my PS+. I'm down for 2019 Sam Sho whenever you guys are.

Great 🙂

Too bad that i am still having my ps4 soft bricked due the last update of the firmware 😞

DoctaMario · May 16, 2021

1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

@DoctaMario @Hecatom

I renewed my PS+. I'm down for 2019 Sam Sho whenever you guys are.

I'm still debating on whether or not to install that update that @Hecatomhas been having problems with. I'd I decide to go for it I'll let you know and we can play.

I'm also in the process of moving and am having to give up my fiber connection at the house. 😭 I still have at my studio but I don't know if I want to start bringing all my consoles there 😂

Mattatsu · May 17, 2021

Moving is the worst.

on another note, I remember someone being annoyed this was only on the epic store. I’ll post it in the lounge as well

DoctaMario · May 17, 2021

😂😂😂😂😂

29 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Moving is the worst.

Maaaan it is. And we.have so much crap, but this new house is awesome, on 6 acres and feels like a cabin in the mountains so I'm ok with waiting till fiber gets out here.

Reticently · May 17, 2021

DoctaMario · May 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Reticently said:

I'm legit excited that he's finally coming to the game, I just hope they don't massacre my boy too badly. 🤞

Hecatom · May 17, 2021

I think he would be fine.

Most characters have been translated well to this iteration of the game, with the exception of Mina that got all her toolset reworked to be on par with her story/lore of being handicaped because she has an eyepatch.

DoctaMario · May 18, 2021

15 hours ago, Hecatom said:

I think he would be fine.

Most characters have been translated well to this iteration of the game, with the exception of Mina that got all her toolset reworked to be on par with her story/lore of being handicaped because she has an eyepatch.

Tbh all the characters feel hella nerfed in this game especially compared to IV and V Special. There are so many options and combos they've all lost and I have no reason to expect it won't be the same for Amak. Still looking forward to getting to mess with him though.

I've picked this game back up a little and been messing with Sogetsu this week.

Edited May 18, 2021 by DoctaMario

Hecatom · May 18, 2021

8 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Tbh all the characters feel hella nerfed in this game especially compared to IV and V Special. There are so many options and combos they've all lost and I have no reason to expect it won't be the same for Amak. Still looking forward to getting to mess with him though.

I've picked this game back up a little and been messing with Sogetsu this week.

Well, if you compare to those 2, then it would obviously feel like everyone is nerfed, since those games added a lot of mechanics that this game doesnt have XD

If we see it as a continuation of Samsho 1 and 2 (Specially since is kind of like a prequel to 2 iirc, lore wise) then the game feels like those old samsho games, which is why i dont really feel the "nerfs".

But i totally get you, this game is mechanic wise like what Xrd was to GGAC, since Xrd iterated from #R

Edited May 18, 2021 by Hecatom

DoctaMario · May 18, 2021

1 hour ago, Hecatom said:

Well, if you compare to those 2, then it would obviously feel like everyone is nerfed, since those games added a lot of mechanics that this game doesnt have XD

If we see it as a continuation of Samsho 1 and 2 (Specially since is kind of like a prequel to 2 iirc, lore wise) then the game feels like those old samsho games, which is why i dont really feel the "nerfs".

But i totally get you, this game is mechanic wise like what Xrd was to GGAC, since Xrd iterated from #R

Yeah I figured that's what they were going for, especially since 2 seemed to be the most popuIar before Vsp started getting more shine. I think V Special was a good medium point though, as IV is pretty bonkers and 2 just feels a little TOO retro imo,and while I knew that 7 probably wasn't going to be as much like Vsp in terms of having a meditation system or the movement abilities, I hoped they would keep the characters a little closer to those iterations because they really give you a lot of freedom. You can play Mina aggressively, play Yoshi a little more runaway if you want to, but in 7, they don't really have enough tools to be able to do that for the most part.

Each SamSho game feels so different from the others outside of 1 and 2 though. You can be good at one and completely trash at all the others because they're so different and SS7 is no exception.

DoctaMario · May 26, 2021

Wild. I wish Jubei's catch counters weren't so risky but because they are, they lead to some hype moments

DoctaMario · May 30, 2021

Was going through my old resources and remembered that you can deflect the roundhouse sword swing Shizu tosses out there before his dp. Works in 5Sp and probably also in SS7 although I haven't done much testing there.

https://twitter.com/THEDoctaMario/status/1234256081494265857?s=20

Edit: how TF does one embed tweets?

Edited May 30, 2021 by DoctaMario