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The Castlevania/Bloodstained Thread: Whip It Good


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8 hours ago, JHDK said:

Oh, I agree that it is better than nothing.

 

It is the next best thing to a new SotN.

 

I just wish it wasn't so invested in modern anime sensibilities, design-wise.

 

I'd love for it to be more goth and dark in its visual themes.

 

The music is still spot on.

 

But the exploration does not feel nearly as satisfying to me, for some reason.

 

 

I think the exploration element is never going to top one's first time with one of the big dogs of the "metroidvania" genre. Especially if you first played Super Metroid or SotN back when they came out- the atmosphere was untouchable, and we didn't have anything near the number of quality titles in this style that we do now. 

 

On a side note, while I really enjoy RotN, I've been more excited to have the classic style releases surrounding it. There have been a huge amount of really good indies in the Metroid style, and almost nothing in the classic CV style over the last 20 years. 

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13 hours ago, Camacho said:

I think the exploration element is never going to top one's first time with one of the big dogs of the "metroidvania" genre. Especially if you first played Super Metroid or SotN back when they came out- the atmosphere was untouchable, and we didn't have anything near the number of quality titles in this style that we do now. 

 

On a side note, while I really enjoy RotN, I've been more excited to have the classic style releases surrounding it. There have been a huge amount of really good indies in the Metroid style, and almost nothing in the classic CV style over the last 20 years. 

I think this is true. It's why as much as I love Sotn and Rotn, there's a "sameness" to all IGA's games and that if you've played a couple of them, you won't be surprised by much that happens in any of them. It's why I was happy to see them do the Lords  Of Shadow series because by the time the first one came out, I was pretty bored of samey metroidvania Castlevania games, I was happy to see it go somewhere else, especially where LoS1 took things. 

Edited by DoctaMario
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Been getting back into playing CV1, mainly Vs Castlevania. I think that game is a damn near perfect platformer and the design of it is so tight and well done, it keeps me coming back, but the Vs version, while I've beaten it once, is much harder. The timers for the first 4 stages are much lower so you have to move quickly, and then damage done to you is higher (you lose a whopping SIX bars of life for getting hit in stage 3 and beyond!)  Generally stage 3 is about where I can get to in Vs.

 

Interestingly there are no multi-player aspects in Vs Castlevania like there are in Vs SMB, which is funny. I think it had to do with the cabinets those games were in originally. 

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2 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Been getting back into playing CV1, mainly Vs Castlevania. I think that game is a damn near perfect platformer and the design of it is so tight and well done, it keeps me coming back, but the Vs version, while I've beaten it once, is much harder. The timers for the first 4 stages are much lower so you have to move quickly, and then damage done to you is higher (you lose a whopping SIX bars of life for getting hit in stage 3 and beyond!)  Generally stage 3 is about where I can get to in Vs.

 

Interestingly there are no multi-player aspects in Vs Castlevania like there are in Vs SMB, which is funny. I think it had to do with the cabinets those games were in originally. 

Haven't played vs CV, but I agree with the sentiment. I still wouldn't call it my favorite cv, but I love the tight design- very satisfying to do a quick run through without having a big time sink. The biggest knock I have against it is how easy it is to screw yourself by picking up/losing the wrong sub weapon. Which can be an issue to a lesser extent other classic cv titles as well. I wish someone had the foresight to differentiate the weapon candles or implement the Dracula x item dropping sooner.

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3 hours ago, Camacho said:

Haven't played vs CV, but I agree with the sentiment. I still wouldn't call it my favorite cv, but I love the tight design- very satisfying to do a quick run through without having a big time sink. The biggest knock I have against it is how easy it is to screw yourself by picking up/losing the wrong sub weapon. Which can be an issue to a lesser extent other classic cv titles as well. I wish someone had the foresight to differentiate the weapon candles or implement the Dracula x item dropping sooner.

That's that arcade design mentality lol. "Frankenstein's coming up, gotta hang on to this HOly Water.....FUCK I JUST PICKED UP A DAGGER, FUCK FUCK FUCK" 😂 Even the item placement is perfect, they give you an item that will be useful really close to where you pick it up.

 

My favorite CV game changes, but 1 is definitely in my top 10 for sure. And for the record, I think the Frankenstein fight is the hardest one in the game. People say a lot about Death, but you can use Holy Water cheese, Crosses really demolish him, and even the Axe is a really good choice. But Frankenstein, that fight just sucks unless you cheese him lol!

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1 hour ago, DoctaMario said:

That's that arcade design mentality lol. "Frankenstein's coming up, gotta hang on to this HOly Water.....FUCK I JUST PICKED UP A DAGGER, FUCK FUCK FUCK" 😂 Even the item placement is perfect, they give you an item that will be useful really close to where you pick it up.

 

My favorite CV game changes, but 1 is definitely in my top 10 for sure. And for the record, I think the Frankenstein fight is the hardest one in the game. People say a lot about Death, but you can use Holy Water cheese, Crosses really demolish him, and even the Axe is a really good choice. But Frankenstein, that fight just sucks unless you cheese him lol!

In CV1, the Holy Water is the solution to literally everything.

 

People love to make boasts about the Boomerang.

 

The Boomerang isn't going to stun-lock Death to... himself.

 

Holy Water does.

 

He dies in his opening animation.

Edited by JHDK
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34 minutes ago, JHDK said:

In CV1, the Holy Water is the solution to literally everything.

 

People love to make boasts about the Boomerang.

 

The Boomerang isn't going to stun-lock Death to... himself.

 

Holy Water does.

 

He dies in his opening animation.

I never used the Holy Water until fairly recently and I've been playing that game a long fucking time. I'd use the cross or watch sometimes, but I usually always kept the Axe.

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Been doing more solo runs in CotM2. Cleared with Miriam and Gebel on veteran, pansied out and switched 2 casual for the last 2 levels with Zangetsu and Dominique. The checkpoints were just too damn brutal with so little room for error. Plenty of challenge to be had if you want to try the tougher modes. I haven't done legend mode yet, but the respawns with a full team are surely easier than solo veteran runs with disadvantaged characters.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2021 at 5:51 PM, Camacho said:

I used to try to hang onto the cross, now it's straight holy water for me. The game also got a lot easier when I found out that you can get the double/triple shot upgrades faster by destroying enemies and projectiles with them. 

Part of the brilliance of the game is they give the optimal subweapon for a lot of sections right before you need it. You get an Axe right before the Vampire Bat,  Holy Water right before Medusa, a watch at the beginning of stage 4, a cross right before Death. The only places they really hang you out to dry are before Frankenstein and the mummies because the dagger fucking sucks 😂

Edited by DoctaMario
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12 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Part of the brilliance of the game is they give the optimal subweapon for a lot of sections right before you need it. You get an Axe right before the Vampire Bat,  Holy Water right before Medusa, a watch at the beginning of stage 4, a cross right before Death. The only places they really hang you out to dry are before Frankenstein and the mummies because the dagger fucking sucks 😂

Except Holy Water is the solution for literally everything that the whip falls short on.

 

The Vampire Bat can be whipped too easily (yes pun) for a sub to matter.

 

To me, the worst design flaw in CV1 is at the beginning of stage 4, where the stalactites didn't register as anything but background art to my kid brain. It literally took me seeing it done for my brain to visually comprehend that they were foreground that needed to be ducked.

 

Unfortunately, my copy was also one of the ones plagued by the game-ending Grim Reaper lock-up glitch, so getting to the D was a roll of the dice, looking for a Natural 6, even after I'd overcome that.

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4 hours ago, JHDK said:

Except Holy Water is the solution for literally everything that the whip falls short on.

 

The Vampire Bat can be whipped too easily (yes pun) for a sub to matter.

 

To me, the worst design flaw in CV1 is at the beginning of stage 4, where the stalactites didn't register as anything but background art to my kid brain. It literally took me seeing it done for my brain to visually comprehend that they were foreground that needed to be ducked.

 

Unfortunately, my copy was also one of the ones plagued by the game-ending Grim Reaper lock-up glitch, so getting to the D was a roll of the dice, looking for a Natural 6, even after I'd overcome that.

The holy water being OP doesn't matter if you just died and are stuck trying to beat a section or boss without it because you already are past the one place it drops in the level. Besides, stuff like the Medusa, Death, and Frankenstein fights are reliant on being able to keep them jailed with HW and doing that not only requires having enough hearts to do so but also at least a double shot. If you can't properly jail them, Holy Water is one of the worst items to have. I will agree that it's definitely OP, but level 2 and the Dracula fight are the only places where you can get it in the block leading up to the boss fight, but you can't properly jail Drac's second form with it without a double shot, and that would be very difficult to get at that point.

Edited by DoctaMario
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1 hour ago, DoctaMario said:

The holy water being OP doesn't matter if you just died and are stuck trying to beat a section or boss without it because you already are past the one place it drops in the level. Besides, stuff like the Medusa, Death, and Frankenstein fights are reliant on being able to keep them jailed with HW and doing that not only requires having enough hearts to do so but also at least a double shot. If you can't properly jail them, Holy Water is one of the worst items to have. I will agree that it's definitely OP, but level 2 and the Dracula fight are the only places where you can get it in the block leading up to the boss fight, but you can't properly jail Drac's second form with it without a double shot, and that would be very difficult to get at that point.

You can get double and triple shot by using HW on the first form's fireballs. Farm hearts on the stairs, get the triple from form one, and form 2 is locked down completely. 

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23 minutes ago, Camacho said:

You can get double and triple shot by using HW on the first form's fireballs. Farm hearts on the stairs, get the triple from form one, and form 2 is locked down completely. 

Yeah that's true, although if you're coming to the fight after dying you won't have tons of hearts to spend to there's that to consider. But I suppose if you can get enough of a life lead, even if you run out of hearts you could finish the job depending on where he's at on the screen and how much life you have left.

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1 hour ago, DoctaMario said:

I had an absolutely flawless run of CV1 going and then, while jaunting down the hallway to meet Death some joker drops a dagger that I accidentally picked up and it threw the whole thing to hell. Proceeded to lose all 5 lives to Death 🤬

The enemy item drops can ruin shit quick.

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Passed 70 hours in CotM2, have probably played it even more than CV3 at this point. So much replay value between multiple "episodes", boss rush, 3 difficulty levels, and solo modes. The music not being up to classic CV standards and maybe the checkpoints being a bit too philistine on solo veteran/legend modes are my only knocks on the game. 

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19 hours ago, Camacho said:

Passed 70 hours in CotM2, have probably played it even more than CV3 at this point. So much replay value between multiple "episodes", boss rush, 3 difficulty levels, and solo modes. The music not being up to classic CV standards and maybe the checkpoints being a bit too philistine on solo veteran/legend modes are my only knocks on the game. 

I'll get around to this one eventually. I beat every difficulty on 1 except Zangetsu no recruit/no kill on Nightmare; that one was really tough because  Zangetsu is either the best character in the game if you get his upgrades or he's the worst. That's one thing I think CV3 has over 1 at least (plus I think CV3 is a better game overall) Trevor is very utilitarian and can handle anything the game throws at you with varying degrees of ease/difficulty and the other characters have specific things they do well but are overall unbalanced. But in Cotm 1 I felt that way more about Miriam. She had good range, could take a hit, and had good subs, whereas if you didn't upgrade Zangetsu, he was probably the least useful character in the game. 

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You get a pretty substantial Zangetsu upgrade in 1-2 of the runs in this one (and of course ultimate Zangetsu is unlockable). But yeah, doing a straight vanilla solo mode with him (where you can grab zero upgrades) is pretty brutal in this one. The game is overall much harder than the first, for sure.

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29 minutes ago, Camacho said:

You get a pretty substantial Zangetsu upgrade in 1-2 of the runs in this one (and of course ultimate Zangetsu is unlockable). But yeah, doing a straight vanilla solo mode with him (where you can grab zero upgrades) is pretty brutal in this one. The game is overall much harder than the first, for sure.

That's what I heard that it was a tougher game. I dunno if I'm up for that or not lol, I've been trying to keep my gaming more mellow, although I'm about to start Dark Souls so 😅

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16 hours ago, Camacho said:

Heh, I'd say Dark Souls is a bit less mellow. A must play regardless though. CotM2, whenever you do get to it, shouldn't be too bad for a CV3 vet, at least until you get to the most extreme optional challenges.

Yeah I'll have to check it out. I'm trying not to buy too much stuff as I already have a backlog and I know that eventually it'll go on sale again.

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6 hours ago, Camacho said:

I was referring to Dark Souls- first DS game for you?

Nah I've beaten Ds2 and I'm hella deep into Bloodborne. I've started DS1 several times but always put it down, but I think I'm in a better frame to play it now especially since Ive gotten more into Those types of games and I'm a bit better at them. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/16/2021 at 3:44 PM, Camacho said:

You can get double and triple shot by using HW on the first form's fireballs. Farm hearts on the stairs, get the triple from form one, and form 2 is locked down completely. 

Did some messing around today against Drac's second form and it turns out you can't truly jail it unless you have a double shot, BUT if your timing is right, you can lock him down with a single holy water, whip him 3 or 4 times and then hit him with another bottle and it limits his movement by a good margin. So you don't end up needing to waste hearts (you only end up with 12 if you're not bringing some from the previous area of the level) trying to destroy 1st form's fireballs with HW in the hopes of getting a double shot.

Edited by DoctaMario
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9 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Did some messing around today against Drac's second form and it turns out you can't truly jail it unless you have a double shot, BUT if your timing is right, you can lock him down with a single holy water, whip him 3 or 4 times and then hit him with another bottle and it limits his movement by a good margin. So you don't end up needing to waste hearts (you only end up with 12 if you're not bringing some from the previous area of the level) trying to destroy 1st form's fireballs with HW in the hopes of getting a double shot.

You can go up an down the stairs leading to the throne room to get more hearts right before the fight. The candles will respawn.

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3 hours ago, Camacho said:

You can go up an down the stairs leading to the throne room to get more hearts right before the fight. The candles will respawn.

I forgot about candles respawning in this game. Either way, you don't actually need too many hearts for Drac, but it's always nice to have a few extra. 

 

I might start doing light speed runs once I'm able to one life the game. I'm good up until the first part of Stage 6, the Phantom Bats are brutal. 

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5 hours ago, Camacho said:

Stage 6 is a short bunch of bullshit before the Dracula battle. Pretty stark contrast from an otherwise very well tuned game.

If you can keep the watch, the clock tower area is a breeze. Without, it's a degree of luck to get through it, at least for me. My issue is the bats, where they form and how they move, but I think I'm starting to figure it out. There's definitely a puzzle game aspect to this game lol

Edited by DoctaMario
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Got a few more veteran solo mode (normal bosses, not hard remix bosses) clears in CotM2 (including Zangetsu this time). Only have to clean up the last 2 stages in Veteran with Dominique, then a full run with Alfred and I'll have them all. Gremory and all of stage 8 (final boss is much easier than the stage itself) were a real struggle with Zangetsu. And there's still solo modes with hard bosses and Legend mode for extreme masochists. I've seen a bunch of user reviews bitching that you can't avoid everything in the game without spamming Hachi's invincibility- I can attest to that not being true at all. It may be hard as hell at times, but not impossible. The game is so well tuned that even the most extreme challenges are doable without cheese. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
13 minutes ago, AriesWarlock said:

Wow I didn't know about that either! Crazy that such a powerful super is only 46+Slash. The Heaven and Rune Swords were two of my favorite weapons in that game, I'd dual wield them and obliterate EVERYTHING.

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5 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

There are soooooo many ways to make that game stupid too 😂 

 

In other news, I just found out about someone doing a hack of OoE and putting Richter in there which is a dream come true for me. I always wanted to play that game with a Belmont.

You got a link to that project?

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1 hour ago, AriesWarlock said:

You got a link to that project?

It was on reddit, I can't find it though. I just leafed through a bunch of the Castlevania sub, but there's a site for Castlevania hacks and I think it was on there. The guy was just getting started though so it probably won't be out for awhile.

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4 minutes ago, Maxx said:

Castlevania the final season is up

Oooooooh I thought it wasnt out yet. You made a comment about a 3rd episode with no context lol. Ok Im on page. I'll have to check it out when I get home. 

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Just now, RSG3 said:

Oooooooh I thought it wasnt out yet. You made a comment about a 3rd episode with no context lol. Ok Im on page. I'll have to check it out when I get home. 

Hahah I didn't wanna go too far into detail because it might spoil for people

Edited by Maxx
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