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[Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike] Q/A Thread


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This is where questions about 3rd Strike should be posted. If they relate to the game, me personally on a competitive or learning level or beyond, it should be posted here. I'll try and get to as much as possible and promote this page to other, stronger players so they can help. This'll grow Megashock and the 3rd Strike playerbase here, hopefully.

 

In addition to this, I'll be making 2 new threads. One will contain basic information sources and some information on how to go about researching 3rd Strike. I'll also link certain communities that are super active and contain strong players for your information. The second thread will be a Ken page. I'll try to include as much information as I can there to both get you started and simultaneously solidify your play. It will not be redundant to any skill level, and the information will be qualitative.

 

I hope this thread is put to good use, since there are many aspects to the game that are locked away behind closed doors, not because of some sinister agenda, but because it just doesn't come up in certain levels of play enough to warrant a full discussion. The problem with this is that it limits bad players' knowledge base, and keeps them plateaued. Please feel free to ask any and all questions.

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  • misterBee changed the title to [Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike] Q/A Thread
On 11/13/2020 at 9:20 PM, Mattatsu said:

Random question I've been meaning to look into...

 

Is there any sort of throw invincibility after leaving blockstun? I don’t know if my timing is bad and I’m trying to throw someone while they’re still in blockstun, or if there’s a couple frames of invulnerability.

So this has been the subject of debate for some time. I recently got caught up in this debate and have yet to find a conclusive answer on my own, though people I trust have given me answers I believe, and they seem to work.

 

First, the concept of throw invulnerability in 3rd Strike:

 

There are 6 frames where you cannot be thrown after waking up, getting hit and being air reset. Usually the throw startup is 2 frames, so if you were to throw someone, you would input throw on frame 4 of the invulnerability to throw at the soonest possible moment. As for the frame 4 timing, it's unrealistic to expect you to do it every time, but it's an option.

 

Now, for the question at hand.

 

The most accurate source of mechanical information in regards to 3rd Strike is Game Restaurant:

 

http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/index.html

 

The translations say there is a period of time after guard "rigidity" that one cannot be thrown, which seemingly answers the question, but there are two ways to interpret this.

 

  1. The 6 frames of throw invulnerability only start once blockstun ends. In this way, if blockstun lasts for 3 frames after a move is blocked, you cannot throw the opponent until 9 frames have passed. So, in summary, if a move has 3 frames of blockstun, a throw will not connect until frame 10.
  2. Rigidity could imply the act of going into blockstun, not the period of blockstun itself. In this way, we have a new interpretation: The 6 frames of throw invulnerability start at the same time as the blockstun, not after. So if a move has 3 frames of blockstun, your throw would not connect until frame 7. This would be because throw invulnerability would be a mechanic that runs parallel to blockstun, not after.

From what I understand, there is evidence to support both, with a majority of it favoring point #1. Personally, this is the theory I subscribe to, and I know many others do as well. It is also the theory I've had a 100% success rate with, as it's the most delayed play and so it must work, regardless of execution limitations. I recommend following that.

 

There is, however, and undisputed fact, that you can attempt to throw your opponent out of blockstun too early. You need to slow it down. From our many games, I think you really need to slow it down in general. Your actions-per-second are too high for the type of neutral this game promotes, so just keep in mind that caution will promote a slower game. In this way, you're approaching the commitment to a throw game in a much safer, smarter and more consistent way.

 

I hope this helped.

Edited by Dayaan
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/13/2020 at 9:20 PM, Mattatsu said:

Random question I've been meaning to look into...

 

Is there any sort of throw invincibility after leaving blockstun? I don’t know if my timing is bad and I’m trying to throw someone while they’re still in blockstun, or if there’s a couple frames of invulnerability.

So recently I've clarified some stuff regarding your question. You can see corrections here.

 

 

 

As far as numbers and facts like that go, I've corrected the holes above in the previous post, but there is still spurious information in there, I believe. Please read that, then refer to this post to get the clearer and full picture on what is actually real.

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  • 1 year later...

Hey @Dayaan, I spent today looking at some Higa (IB) videos, which lead me to (finally) look up what the SGGK OS was and how to do it... Since then, I've noticed a lot of micro steps right before a throw... Is that commonly an SGGK OS, or just someone walking before throwing? I know it's hard to tell, so I guess my question is, how prevalent are SGGKs?

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17 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Hey @Dayaan, I spent today looking at some Higa (IB) videos, which lead me to (finally) look up what the SGGK OS was and how to do it... Since then, I've noticed a lot of micro steps right before a throw... Is that commonly an SGGK OS, or just someone walking before throwing? I know it's hard to tell, so I guess my question is, how prevalent are SGGKs?

Can you provide a link to the video and detail the inputs used to do the Ibuki SGGK that you're referring to?

 

As for how prevalent SGGKs are, it depends on your level and the character. Character like Chun thrives on it while Ken doesn't always necessarily use it as often.

 

The way you described it out of context, I think Higa is just buffering high parry. Which character was he fighting against?

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2 hours ago, Dayaan said:

Can you provide a link to the video and detail the inputs used to do the Ibuki SGGK that you're referring to?

 

As for how prevalent SGGKs are, it depends on your level and the character. Character like Chun thrives on it while Ken doesn't always necessarily use it as often.

 

The way you described it out of context, I think Higa is just buffering high parry. Which character was he fighting against?

Based on my understanding of how to do the SGGK (from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xb2AeqKjmg), you do the SGGK by tapping Forward or Down, then a button, then LP+LK, treating the button as if you were doing a kara throw.

 

I don't know what Higa's inputs were, but in the below video, he does several meaty throws where you see him take a small step forward, right before the throw (like at around 2:03 and 2:21. Also, I don't mean the times he whiffs a button as the opponent is rising).

 

Without knowing his inputs (or his intentions), it'd likely be impossible to know if it was a SGGK, a parry buffer before a throw, or just a short walk-up throw... I guess my question is just how prevalent are these parry OSs (SGGKs, parry buffers, and jump tech) in normal, high level play?
 

Spoiler



 

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I'll address everything one at a time in this post.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Based on my understanding of how to do the SGGK (from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xb2AeqKjmg), you do the SGGK by tapping Forward or Down, then a button, then LP+LK, treating the button as if you were doing a kara throw.

Yes, that's the idea. That's what an SGGK is. Buffer a parry, then kara throw. The kara throw may not always extend the range, but it means if you get the parry, the button will come out instead of the throw.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

meaty throws

Meaty throws don't technically exist in 3rd Strike as there are 6 frames of throw invulnerability on wakeup.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

you see him take a small step forward, right before the throw (like at around 2:03

Over there, he's not doing SGGK. If you advance the footage frame by frame, he just does a high parry into normal throw. He does this to beat Cr.LP and St.HK from Chun on reversal, or to counter EX Spinning Bird Kick, then he can react and parry the whole thing.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

2:21.

I couldn't find the throws here?

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Also, I don't mean the times he whiffs a button as the opponent is rising).

Those are just framekills to time meaties. Pretty common in 3rd Strike. You don't need them at all, just helps.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Without knowing his inputs (or his intentions), it'd likely be impossible to know if it was a SGGK, a parry buffer before a throw, or just a short walk-up throw...

There's plenty of info to make educated guesses though.

1) You can know for sure whether something is an SGGK based on the startup of the throw. You will see the startup to a normal, followed by the throw, in that order. You'd also see a parry buffer before the kara throw. There, kara throw was not present, so it was just a normal OS parry.

2) See above.

3) Whether or not it's a walkup throw is dependent on 3 things

  1. Distance from opponent
  2. Parry cooldown
  3. Inputs before the throw

If the throw hitbox distance is large enough, a high parry buffer can be misconstrued as walking forward when in reality, the player was already in range to throw the opponent.

If the player is on a parry cooldown, then it's unlikely their walkup was an OS parry and is most likely just a walkup throw.

Whatever they input before a throw can and will be seen. Depending on what they do, it's not always a walkup throw, just like in the video example. Higa does a high parry buffer and throws. It's not just a hard read play, he's covering his ass on the approach.

 

4 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

I guess my question is just how prevalent are these parry OSs (SGGKs, parry buffers, and jump tech) in normal, high level play?

Parry OSs are incredibly common at high level, which is why you don't see too many unnecessary button presses in 3rd Strike. It's sort of like basketball. You don't want to be across the court in more than 3 dribbles. This is why you don't see as many parries at high levels as you do in low levels, because people are OSing each other left and right, even when buttons aren't being pressed. This limits the amount of buttons you can reliably press and get away with in neutral.

 

As I said earlier, SGGKs are highly dependent on the character. Again, Chun Li is more likely to use her SGGK as compared to Urien or Ken. I would imagine Ibuki's St.MK is a fine enough SGGK button because you can hitconfirm with it after parries, but you don't want to start learning parry OSs using SGGKs. I'm not sure what you mean by jump tech, but parry buffering (or OS parries) are the reason you can't just hit buttons in 3S, even if you're technically safe (or even plus [I will red parry short jab short against Ken because that red parry beats short jab short and target combo, so I OS 2 powerful hitconfirms of his at the same time]). You need to get those down if you want to play at a high level, but at the moment, I wouldn't encourage learning those. First get hitconfirms down and knowing when to delay and when to have meaty oki, and combining that with throws to make your offence scary.

 

Hope this helps!

 

EDIT: I wonder what a woman's touch feels like...

Edited by Dayaan
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6 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

Hope this helps!

It helps a ton! Thank you!

 

Also...

 

7 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

Meaty throws don't technically exist in 3rd Strike as there are 6 frames of throw invulnerability on wakeup.

Thanks! I knew there was some invulnerability, but for some reason thought it was 2 frames... Also, I often just say meaty interchangeably with oki, even though I realize they're not the same thing (I should probably stop that lol)

 

11 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

I couldn't find the throws here?

It was a single throw attempt that was teched. He just did a short step before doing the throw attempt, but no need to review as you explained what to look for (which was very helpful)

 

12 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

I'm not sure what you mean by jump tech

Sorry, I may not have used the right term, but it's when you jump and then press LP+LK to either jump over throws (if you're early), or tech them (if your jump is late).

 

14 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

... You need to get those down if you want to play at a high level, but at the moment, I wouldn't encourage learning those. First get hitconfirms down and knowing when to delay and when to have meaty oki, and combining that with throws to make your offence scary.

Your whole post was great, but I really appreciate you putting this bit in at the end. I was starting to feel like I had to really dig into these SGGKS and things now, while I'm still learning how to use Ibuki. I'll probably buffer the odd parry here and there before some attacks, but it won't be my focus at the time.

 

Thanks again Dayaan!

 

 

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Everything sounds good!

 

3 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Sorry, I may not have used the right term, but it's when you jump and then press LP+LK to either jump over throws (if you're early), or tech them (if your jump is late).

I've never heard of this. Jump's a jump and will always beat throws as long as it happens before the throw comes out. I have heard, however, that if you press a button and then input throw, it can tech the throw as long as it's within the tech window, but I've never tried it, got it accidentally or identified it happening. I've just accepted that it's a thing and I never really factor it into my game anyway because a throw teched from a Ken puts me at a neutral advantage anyway.

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