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The Killer Instinct Thread

GetTheTables

By GetTheTables
in Fighting Game Discussion

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)

Dammit someone joined before you.

 

I'm remaking:

 

Parameters are:

 

 Lobby size: 2

Private: Off

Min Rank: Qualifier

Max Rank: Killer

Min Performance: Pass

Allow Crossplay: Yes

Lobby Name: Anyone Welcome

Allow Crossnetwork: Yes

 

Edit: Someone keeps joining...

Edited by FlyingVe
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hawkingbird said:

Ggs @FlyingVe

 

I need to go attend to my sister who's waiting downstairs. Sorry to cut it short.

No problem any time. 

 

@VhoziteSorry you don't like the game. I'm not gonna try and convert you, but if you ever want to give it another shot let me know. I promise the combo system is really not that complicated, even if its very different from anything else out there.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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When I was more into this years ago I was able to make a combo sandwich with pretty much the whole cast. The biggest thing IMO is getting used to the autodouble rhythm and ideally mixing between all the different strengths on the fly. That is the part I'm still trying to get back.

 

After that for me its muscle memory on linkers. Tusk fucks me up because he has the opposite of what my hands want to do: I naturally want to do QCF+P, QCB+K but he reverses that. That may or may not be a common thing so finding chars that match whatever your hands want to do for linkers can also make it a lot easier at first. I'll probably still punt Tusk combos months from now but I can already mostly fumble through an Orchid combo.

 

The Steam <-> Xbox crossplay is nice but definitely janky. I've legit considered repurchasing on Steam just for ease of set up. Also while the rematch time in the lobbies isn't awful it is way nicer in player matches to just be able to rapid fire those games.

 

Also, forgot to add: my next KI day will probably be tomorrow if anyone is around.

Edited by GetTheTables
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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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I'll work on keeping my energy levels up to try to play tomorrow evening. Thursday off makes it an easier proposition.

 

Aganos is too much of a chunky monkey for me. Though he has very arguably the coolest character quirk in this game, and shadow "fuck you" punching someone through a wall is one of the best single hits in all of FGs.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted

That’s kinda the problem, I don’t like how slow he gets when armored up, it’s very awkward. That and it felt like a lot of my plan was YOLO EX punch... which while good will not be a consistent winner.

 

not sure who I will mess with. Debating Orchid and Kim as they have some flashy stuff without being too nutty.

 

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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Yeah I have a similar issue with RAAM. He just feels too tubby, though I know its the archetype. Likewise of course Aganos handles like a bus but while I'm not a pixie player I'm not a fan of big bodies either.

 

Can't hate on YOLO EX punch. My Tusk plan right now is "sword buttons" and "something something Conquest ender and hope for the best".

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)

Neither.

 

manuals are harder  to break but doubles do way more damage.

 

in a perfect world you would do manuals to get the lockout and doubles for damage however, The reality is, your manual options are often quite limited. Some moves have really easy manual options so it’s good to know those.

 

it’s also good to know if your character has any unbreakable routes.

 

I’m speaking from memory as my muscle memory is long since gone, so I’m not doing a whole lot of manuals or anything overly tricky 

Edited by FlyingVe
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sorry, another manual related thing that may not be known.

 

As a rule of thumb, your manual options are predicated by which linker they follow (there are exceptions). For example, a light linker will only have enough frame advantage for a light manual, while a heavy will have enough for all three. EX moves tend to have by far the easiest manuals. If you are in training mode, the manual window allows you to cancel 5 frames early (if memory serves), so a linker that is +2 on hit would allow a 7 frame normal to work as a manual.

 

Openers do not follow the above rules and function just like an attack in an SF game would. One of the safest ways to get damage/oki, is opener>manual>ender. 

Edited by FlyingVe
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

@FlyingVeGGs man.

 

I need to play another character. Tusk is way too frustrating and when I get tilted my natural badness at this game just intensifies. 

You were playing a lot better and tusk hits like a truck.

 

I don’t have much experience against tusk but it seems kind of easy to play around his normals, I don’t know if there’s an easy solution on tusks end? A lot of my strat was just waiting for one to whiff, and even on block the status quo stayed the same (except in the corner)? Maybe more run mixups?

 

Also, spinal offense is pure nonsense, don’t get to tiled by his offense. He ‘s also a character I arguably know the best.

 

Edit: Can Tusk convert off the long distance sword hits? EX shoulder maybe? Kind of like how Jago converts fireballs with EX wind kick?

Edited by FlyingVe
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

GGs @FlyingVe. I need to be far less predictable. 

GG’s. @Hawkingbird

 

it’s not so much predictable as not leveraging all you options. After a few rounds I noticed a couple of things about your break tendencies, notably you never break shadow moves and never used counter breaker. This let me reaction break a lot of the time (when I wasn’t being dumb). This meant I could pile on damage without to much fear of reciprocity.

 

Another random note, sammamish is only invulnerable from the waist up, once I remembered that and went low for my meaties it took away your free wake up. Only the EX is invul, it’s a big weakness for thunder as he wants the meter for other things.

 

meanwhile my reactions are generally pretty shit, so abuse the hell out it. Also, (and this is true for me as well), shadow counter is a powerful answer to autopilot cancel pressure.

Edited by FlyingVe
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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

GG’s. @Hawkingbird

 

it’s not so much predictable as not leveraging all you options. After a few rounds I noticed a couple of things about your break tendencies, notably you never break shadow moves and never used counter breaker. This let me reaction break a lot of the time (when I wasn’t being dumb). This meant I could pile on damage without to much fear of reciprocity.

 

Another random note, sammamish is only invulnerable from the waist up, once I remembered that and went low for my meaties it took away your free wake up. Only the EX is invul, it’s a big weakness for thunder as he wants the meter for other things.

 

meanwhile my reactions are generally pretty shit, so abuse the hell out it. Also, (and this is true for me as well), shadow counter is a powerful answer to autopilot cancel pressure.

I never used counter breaker because I forgot the command for it. Same for shadow counter. There were definitely instances when I wanted to use counter breaker like when you would break my high doubles.

 

I was wondering why wasn't working on wake up. That's some SF5 type shit. 

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I never used counter breaker because I forgot the command for it. Same for shadow counter. There were definitely instances when I wanted to use counter breaker like when you would break my high doubles.

 

I was wondering why wasn't working on wake up. That's some SF5 type shit. 

You also have EX Triplax, which is armored. Neither are outstanding wakeups. Technically you could also backdash, or wakeup instinct and use the screen freeze to make a decision. instinct is 1 frame (think SFV Necalli).

 

Input for both is MP+MK. I forgot about Shadow Counter until late in the set. Its really good against Thunder as many characters can Shadow Counter between hits of Triplax.

 

You also have a slight disadvantage as Thunder is a character I know very well.  Hisako, not so much. I do know you can mash between hits of her High/Low rekka (but not the mid)... however Spinal's normals are really shit so they don't reach... and my reactions are also shit.

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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

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Posted
6 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

You also have EX Triplax, which is armored. Neither are outstanding wakeups. Technically you could also backdash, or wakeup instinct and use the screen freeze to make a decision. instinct is 1 frame (think SFV Necalli).

 

Input for both is MP+MK. I forgot about Shadow Counter until late in the set. Its really good against Thunder as many characters can Shadow Counter between hits of Triplax.

 

You also have a slight disadvantage as Thunder is a character I know very well.  Hisako, not so much. I do know you can mash between hits of her High/Low rekka (but not the mid)... however Spinal's normals are really shit so they don't reach... and my reactions are also shit.

 

I'm still trying to figure Hisako. I haven't gotten a grasp on how her rekkas work and what are her combo options. I was able to use her forward throw as an opener so there's that. One of grabs being a linker is odd to me given how they are usually enders in this game. I definitely like her buttons more than Thunder. 

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

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Well, basically all of Hisako's buttons are best in class. She was even able to  poke out of some Kim Wu stuff (which takes hella good buttons). Of course she doesn't have the mobility like others do.

 

I think the rekkas can go Low/Mid/High depending on button for the 2nd and 3rd hits. I believe all are very unsafe but have range and can be spaced. I also think they are her only opener (outside of thing like throws) which can be rough.

 

I know one of Hisako's big weaknesses is her bad opener options, however, wrath compensates for that. With a wrath charge, Naginata hits become counter hits (think Alex Vskill in SFV), which lets you link EX rekka on reaction as a hitconfirm. You can also recapture with a wrath Axe Slash, which is strong.

 

Hisako also has a fade-away style teleport. Not really sure how good it is as a reversal though.

 

Sorry, Hisako is not one of the characters I know super well.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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15 hours ago, FlyingVe said:

You were playing a lot better and tusk hits like a truck.

 

I don’t have much experience against tusk but it seems kind of easy to play around his normals, I don’t know if there’s an easy solution on tusks end? A lot of my strat was just waiting for one to whiff, and even on block the status quo stayed the same (except in the corner)? Maybe more run mixups?

 

Also, spinal offense is pure nonsense, don’t get to tiled by his offense. He ‘s also a character I arguably know the best.

 

Edit: Can Tusk convert off the long distance sword hits? EX shoulder maybe? Kind of like how Jago converts fireballs with EX wind kick?

Yeah the Spinal stuff didn't bother me overmuch. Like its some shenanigans but that is just how some characters be. I chalk most of that stuff up to unfamiliarity and try not to let it get to me too much.

 

What was honestly a lot more frustrating were things that I sort of knew would bug me with Tusk. The natural offsets to his big buttons - being shitty up close, sorta jank AA game - are really irritating to play around because it feels like they come up a lot. Also aided by a fair bit of user error: I still fuck up DP motions on the hitbox regularly (hence why I snapped that one game and just kept doing light DP) , I can't seem to consistently get wake up timing defensively, and I don't have good muscle memory for his linkers so I tend to do the same stuff over and over. 

 

Those problems can be fixed with time though. Not a lot to do about the gaps in his game, and from what little research I've been able to do on Tusk the consensus seems to be that he is just that linear. He does have some stuff you can try to shenanigan with off his command dash but its all either unsafe or very reactable so not terribly exciting. Most people who were familiar with fighting him said exactly what you did: if you just block him out and are more patient, things get a lot harder for the Tusk player. 

 

The only two ways I know of to convert off of sword hits are 1) in Instinct you can cancel them so you can go nuts (along with a lot of other nutty stuff that I frankly can't really wrap my head around), and 2) st.HP has such a long stagger that you can link stuff after it. Might be able to get shadow shoulder, would have to try it.

 

I think even in a perfect world Tusk would sort of slowly drive me crazy. He feels like a bizzarro version of Menat, if that makes sense.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

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If you want the ginormous buttons with less quirks there are other options. Arbiter is the most obvious as he has a similar range on his sword.

 

As a general note, I can't recommend Jago enough as a character to try... he's basically the perfect Shoto. And you have the shadow version if playing honest isn't what you need at the moment.

 

Unrelated, Aganos  vs Tusk almost felt unfair. Like, my aganos isn't good but, Tusk doesn't seem to be able to stop him from armoring up, and with any amount of armor he could just ignore Tusks buttons.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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3 hours ago, FlyingVe said:

@GetTheTables

 

 I messed around in training mode, and it looks like run canceled into slide links off of all of your stagger slashes (MP, HP) at all ranges.

Thanks for checking that, I'll have to add that to the list to practice. Bunch of stuff I need to work on. Next big thing on my list is to rotate enders; I always go for damage (in fairness that just feels real good).

 

When I get some time I want to poke around and see if I can find any video examples. I don’t remember seeing very much Tusk play at all so I don't have any cheat answers to semi common scenarios. 

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

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Posted (edited)

Tusk has that stagger ender. Basically its a wall splat ender that doesn't need the wall.

 

On the whole splat (and by extension Tusk's Stagger) ender are really strong as they pretty much guarantee you a mixup. That said you have to give up Tusk's damage ender, and his damage is crazy high.

Edited by FlyingVe
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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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Yeah the damage ender is the easy go-to esp when you have the ender level built up. 

 

But my thinking is that sometimes it is good to just bank a shorter sequence to get damage on the board and in those situations the stagger ender seems like a good choice since it lets you segue right back into another round. 

 

He also has a hard KD ender but fuck if I know what to really do around that. I think I found a good meaty button that links out to a combo (cl.HK, cl.MP xx starter) so that's something I guess.

 

Spent some time practicing the link into slide from the MP buttons. The HP is free kinda whatever, the MP's seem a little more finicky. Either the timing is tight or I just suck but once I started to get to the extended hitting areas of the MPs I couldn't get the slide to connect. Both shadow moves also whiff from that far out. So my thinking is that I need to play a little tighter with those buttons, which would kind of make sense as it makes the deflect windows more "live". And even "tighter" still gives him plenty of reach.

 

Another thing about this game that I think I knew but I forgot is how extremely lenient it is with getting you into a combo. Like if you hit with a starter and throw an autodouble in after, the game will very often just snap you over into range to get rolling. Didn't really realize that. It makes his Skull Splitters better in neutral than I thought; if they clip the opponent from any range you can go right into a sequence. It looks fuckin' weird but hey I'll take it.

 

Trying to get the linkers into muscle memory but I still fuck 'em up. Just gotta keep hammering on it. Also remembered Skewer and learned that he can do dumb DP juggles so that is fun.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

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The slide link was weird for me as well, but I don’t really play tusk. There’s something strange with how the buffer works which makes LK come out instead of run.

 

as far as manuals go (you said linker but I think you meant manual), I think the only really important one is the first hit after an opener. Openers don’t follow linker rules and work just like a link in SF. This usually means you have the full slate of double, linker, and manual options on that first break. This makes it hard to break and gives you the option to cash out right away. For characters with an EX damage ended (tusk) this does pretty good damage.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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Yeah I ran into the same thing. I think its actually that the recovery of the sword normals eats the buffer, so if you start the QCF motion too early you'll just get Tusk doing a can-can instead of whatever strength of Immortal Spirit you were going for. Its most pronounced on cr.MP out of the ones I've tried. I'm so going to beef those up mid-match.

 

And: you are too kind. I did mean linker. 🙂

 

My muscle memory wants me to do the opposite motions with P and Ks. So I keep trying QCF+P and QCB+K. Too much SF over the years. Its not too bad if I don't switch up linkers mid sequence but I feel like that is an easy bad habit to avoid if I just get used to switching back and forth. Unfortunately that results in a lot of QCF+P/QCB+K into nothing. 

 

I can start calling that the Chesapeake Reset. Just wait, I'll take the title at CB2021 with one of those.

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