The Star Wars Thread: Where we discuss ALL of Star Wars

misterBee · June 6, 2018

28 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

As for the Luke situation, after seeing diehard fans express why they are angry about his portrayal, I see their point. Luke sought to redeem a father that killed hundreds by his own and thousands indirectly. Despite Vader active participating in the attempt to kill all his friends and allies, he risked everything to restore his character. This was a father that he didn't even know. That type of person would not pull lightsaber on his sleeping nephew. He wouldn't abandon his family and friends to an empire like menace. So I see why they and Mark Hamill are unhappy.

Diehard fans see Luke as some infallible superhero, but TLJ Luke is a man. He may have brought back the Jedi, but he ruins it all -- and it breaks him. Fans don't like seeing Luke as someone with humanity or weakness. He's Jedi Jesus and needs to be perfect because they dreamed about being Luke since they were 10 years old. They've put the character on a pedestal and a more human version of him is clashing with their vision of who he should be.

Luke admits to having a moment of weakness and ugliness when he pulls the lightsaber out on his nephew. What person doesn't have that kind of moment? People who don't are creepy robots -- and the consequences of this moment of weakness break Luke.

Sometimes when you are at the lowest you do things you wouldn't normally do. Sometimes you turn your back on everything you know and cared about and retreat within yourself. The fact that TLJ Luke turns around and sacrifices himself to save everything he turned away from makes him even stronger than he was in the other movies. In the old trilogy he's just some dude who is the perfect hero because reasons. In TLJ he's a broken man who comes back from the depths of despair to save the day and make peace with his past mistakes.

Everyone forgets that there is a whole lifetime in between the original movies and TLJ. They all want to see old Luke acting like he did over 30 years ago when he beat the Emperor. Sorry, but that's not how life works. People make mistakes. People have regrets. People stumble and fall. The mark of a true hero is coming back from that all, and TLJ Luke totally delivers.

I don't even like Star Wars that much, so I think it's a lot easier to see the merits of TLJ when you don't have the emotional baggage or investment in the franchise.

As for the new characters - Rey and Kylo back-to-back battle was sick. Sure they stumbled a bit with the new chars in TLJ but I'm sure it'll be fine for the next one.

Darc_Requiem · June 6, 2018

Honestly I'm a Star Trek guy. I like Star Wars but it isn't my end all be all. That said, I'm willing to listen to a rational argument. After seeing several, non trolling fans, put together reasons why they disliked Luke's portrayal and Mark Hamill displeasure. I thought what they said and saw merit in the argument.

Luke's never been infallible. In fact his defining trait was seeing good in people to his detriment at times. His failure was established in TFA. Kylo serving Snoke and his Jedi temple being decimated by him was proof of that. How he handled failure is what seems to be the crux of the fan consternation.

Plus the more obvious issue, for the movie on the whole, is that the story told in TLJ was not what was planned. If Luke was so disgusted that he wanted to into hiding and die. He wouldn't have left R2D2 and Lor San Tekka behind with two parts of a map to his location. That along with many plot points were setups with little to no payoff. There is subverting expectations and there is just doing opposite of what is expected despite the narrative problems it presents. M.Night Shamalyan nearly tanked his career throwing out plot twists on a whim.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Darc_Requiem

Chadouken · June 7, 2018

I don't think people really put as much emphasis on just how incredible Luke projecting himself at the end of TLJ actually is. Kylo asked Rey if she was the one connecting them the first time their minds were bridged- and that was when they could only just see each other and not their surroundings. Then he said no, the effort would kill her. Luke completely and physically manifested himself onto Crait from the Jedi Temple. I've never seen anything so incredible done with the force before. It was an awesome send off for the character I thought.

Darc_Requiem · June 7, 2018

I remember when this was Han Solo's low point 😑

misterBee · June 8, 2018

You mean his HIGHEST POINT?! Bruh I'm feelin that video. 😎

Show me more of the hot imperial agent who shows up for approximately 3 seconds. ❤️

Darc_Requiem · June 8, 2018

27 minutes ago, misterBee said:

You mean his HIGHEST POINT?! Bruh I'm feelin that video. 😎

Show me more of the hot imperial agent who shows up for approximately 3 seconds. ❤️

I just want you to know that this is your fault....

misterBee · June 8, 2018

@Darc_Requiem fighting the good fight.

KAMALA_FAN111 · June 8, 2018

On 6/6/2018 at 11:19 AM, misterBee said:

I thought TLJ was a fine movie. It broke some peoples' minds because the heroes they have been worshiping for decades didn't turn out the way they wanted. I'll honestly never understand the tears.

The only way some people were gonna be happy was if TLJ was the most pandering bland thing ever -- because a lot of fans would rather continue to see the same thing they already know over and over rather than do something new and exciting.

I don't think Solo is the result of TLJ's 'failure'. It's just that nobody wanted to see to a movie about Han Solo in the past.

A lot of it was that last sentence. NOBODY wanted a Solo Movie. At least not yet. The fans already had the nasty taste of SW7 and 8 in their mouths, with more people seeming to like the Rogue 1 movie at least, but not enough obviously to save Solo. On top of that, the constant disrespect shown to the characters and the fans all but assured that it would fail........................and so it did.

Darc_Requiem · June 8, 2018

7 hours ago, Deadly_Raver said:

A lot of it was that last sentence. NOBODY wanted a Solo Movie. At least not yet. The fans already had the nasty taste of SW7 and 8 in their mouths, with more people seeming to like the Rogue 1 movie at least, but not enough obviously to save Solo. On top of that, the constant disrespect shown to the characters and the fans all but assured that it would fail........................and so it did.

Solo never was going to be the hit like a mainline Star Wars movie. That said, if it had reasonable budget and they didn't just piss off some many of their hardcore fans. It would made money. Part of what helped out Rogue One is that majority of fans like TFA, so they were hungry for more Star Wars. Solo could have came out in December, it could have came out next year. It still would have tanked due to Episode 8.