The Star Wars Thread: Where we discuss ALL of Star Wars

[Wellman]

I too love grumpy old man Luke and besides coming up with a better reason for the self exile then just shame, found him and some of the antics to be one of the better parts of TLJ.

 

I am not interested in young Luke's adventures via CG age machine or new actor but old Luke with Hamill I can get down with watching him clown folks. Pun intended.

[M A R T I A N]

Despite hating the movie overall I thought TLJ definitely still had some redeeming qualities, old man Luke being one of them. 

 

Honestly, I actually like a lot of characters from the sequels and their chemistry together, but watching the ST is like watching a bad player play chess. They've got all the pieces they need to do something amazing, but all their choices are underwhelming or don't even make sense. (just go with my bad analogy) Rouge One and Force Awakens are the only ones I don't consider to be heavily flawed films like the others. 

 

It is indeed hilarious though to see all the peeps that talked shit about the prequels for years start going "well maybe they weren't all that bad" after the ST played out. 🤣 As silly as those movies could be, I'll always give them props over the ST for trying to tell a pretty ambitious story. 

 

These new movies are made out of obligation, not inspiration. I think that's one of the biggest reasons why they ended up the way they did. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[Darc_Requiem]

2 hours ago, Lantis said:

😂 Dang, I didn't know that motherfucker had a name. Then again, I just call Sasha Banks' character 'Sasha Banks', so.... 🤷‍♂️

Without Google, I think her name is Koska Reeves. 

[Darc_Requiem]

2 hours ago, RSG3 said:

I also fucking love Grumpy Old Man Luke. 

I could have loved Grumpy Old Man Luke if the writing wasn't complete trash. But that gets to the heart of my problem with the sequel Trilogy. There was no overall plan. So there was not setup for anything and as a result. Nothing makes sense. Time will tell but I don't see anything "repairing" the sequel trilogy. It lacks the foundation for supplemental material to improve things. Not only that it doesn't have the time gaps between each movie that the prequels do. The whole sequel trilogy takes place in around a years time.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Darc_Requiem

[iStu X]

Well here’s to hoping all the rumors are true regarding Filoni and Favraeu retconning the sequel trilogy out of continuity 

[TheInfernoman]

10 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I could have loved Grumpy Old Man Luke if the writing wasn't complete trash.

THIS

 

See I don't HATE old man Luke...but I don't like him either. Getting Luke to this point needed a bit more context that while the movie attempted to show, it did poorly. The reason it may make better sense in time is seeing how Mando is handling established characters and tying them together.  I wanted to see Luke deal with the struggle of trying to rebuild the Jedi order, his success and failures. I want to see his prime statues before we come back to him and see he's apathetic to the world. 

 

I wonder if Star Wars did what Marvel did decades ago (and do a dozen movies over the course of a decade) would this have been an issue...well never know but seems like there's finally a plan in place so here's hoping FF can maintain course and KK gets tossed overboard. 

[OPTIMUS124]

2 hours ago, iStu X said:

Well here’s to hoping all the rumors are true regarding Filoni and Favraeu retconning the sequel trilogy out of continuity 

You mean that, they won't 🤣.

 

Rian Johnson and Filoni are cool with each other. Like I mentioned earlier, they will flesh out the details more than anything else. . 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, TheInfernoman said:

See I don't HATE old man Luke...but I don't like him either. Getting Luke to this point needed a bit more context that while the movie attempted to show, it did poorly

I still think that the starting point is what made all of the issues come to light. TFA created more questions than answers which is generally the problem with most of Abrams movies. 

[TheInfernoman]

10 minutes ago, OPTIMUS124 said:

I still think that the starting point is what made all of the issues come to light. TFA created more questions than answers which is generally the problem with most of Abrams movies. 

 

In before "I'm not watching X video because of Y" but it's still possible that the roadmap JJ made could have had things work out. I know this video does paint Rian as being at fault but consider that the whole JJ roadmap would have solved issues that KK created because she wanted things her way so she could stamp on it as "KK star wars"

 

In other words, JJ set up the foundation so I can't fault that because it was the start and the plan went all over the place. I myself am not faulting (too much) Rian either. What I fault is again KK because she didn't give very good guidance nor did Disney step in until it was too late. KK was the irresponsible woman who lets her kids roam a toy store and doesn't want to take blame for when her "kids" (Rian and to a lesser degree JJ) break something. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by TheInfernoman

[OPTIMUS124]

37 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

In before "I'm not watching X video because of Y" but it's still possible that the roadmap JJ made could have had things work out. I know this video does paint Rian as being at fault but consider that the whole JJ roadmap would have solved issues that KK created because she wanted things her way so she could stamp on it as "KK star wars"

Everything that Abrams pretty much sets up rarely has a solid payoff. 

 

What's interesting is that you still hear about Johnson being on set and working with Filoni but Abrams is missing. 

 

I really don't believe that the ideas were in a vacuum. Like you said, there was likely no plan, but I think the layers added were from more creative people. Unfortunately, that setup was mediocre and didn't really allow for things to breathe, especially coming from what was in the previous films, 

 

I really think that all of these shows will fill that 30 year gap and make up the details for the "why things are the way they are".

Edited December 22, 2020 by OPTIMUS124

[TheInfernoman]

1 minute ago, OPTIMUS124 said:

Everything that Abrams pretty much sets up rarely has a solid payoff. 

 

What's interesting is that you still hear about Johnson being on set and working with Filoni but Abrams is missing. 

We'll never know the full truth. We're only hearing bits and pieces but a lot of info will never be revealed. It is what it is...

[OPTIMUS124]

1 minute ago, TheInfernoman said:

We'll never know the full truth. We're only hearing bits and pieces but a lot of info will never be revealed.

I can agree with that. We only have second hand info that has been published and details from the concept work. I was honestly surprised that we got confirmation that Duel of the Fates was a real thing.  

[TheInfernoman]

Now that I can agree on. Movie studios and companies (especially one as big as Disney) wouldn't ever let out info like that normally! it only fuels the more hardcore fans into believing conspiracy theories (some I like because they're spicy) that their fave franchise is being changed to cater to demographics to push agendas lol. Similar to all the buzz around the "snyder cut" 

 

what some forget is a directors cut/alt clips/alt scripts aren't always the better one (which is why they were not used)

[OPTIMUS124]

31 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

what some forget is a directors cut/alt clips/alt scripts aren't always the better one (which is why they were not used)

People feel that the "other" idea is better because your imagination fills in the gaps. I think that Trevorrow's concept was interesting, yet I haven't cared for any movie he has made so far. 

[Darc_Requiem]

6 hours ago, iStu X said:

Well here’s to hoping all the rumors are true regarding Filoni and Favraeu retconning the sequel trilogy out of continuity 

I don't think they'd come out and say so directly even if they come to that decision. I think they'll just ignore them and the time period. If what they are currently doing continues to go over well, I think events will start to conflict with the events of the ST. Maybe years from now they'll "officially" over write the events but I'll doubt they'll actually toss them out. Then again, I didn't think they'd show prime Luke whooping ass either. So what the fuck do I know 🤣

[Hawkingbird]

14 hours ago, RSG3 said:

I also fucking love Grumpy Old Man Luke. 

I would have liked him if it didn't assassinate his character to get there. 

[OPTIMUS124]

 

[Wellman]

9 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I don't think they'd come out and say so directly even if they come to that decision. I think they'll just ignore them and the time period. If what they are currently doing continues to go over well, I think events will start to conflict with the events of the ST. Maybe years from now they'll "officially" over write the events but I'll doubt they'll actually toss them out. Then again, I didn't think they'd show prime Luke whooping ass either. So what the fuck do I know 🤣

Yeah, but unlike say Dragon Ball or other properties, Star Wars has a lot of timeline they can use and plenty of ways to write around it. So there is no need for the retcon some folk are asking for. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Wellman

[OPTIMUS124]

51 minutes ago, Wellman said:

So there is no need for the retcon some folk are asking for. 

None at all. There is a 30 year gap in the story that wasn't really addressed properly. It'll all work out in the end. 

 

For fun:

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by OPTIMUS124

[Darc_Requiem]

Still tagging just in case. Deep Fake is an improvement IMO. Not the huge jump it usually is though.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Maxx]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:22 PM, iStu X said:

Well here’s to hoping all the rumors are true regarding Filoni and Favraeu retconning the sequel trilogy out of continuity 

i hope not. their are aspects i like...you can move pieces and get rid of some. but i wouldnt throw the whole thing out. but they have plenty of time to decide that since most of the sw moves have been relating to the past and not future of star wars. we're in our ww2 video game addiction phase of star wars. 

[Hawkingbird]

5 minutes ago, Maxx said:

i hope not. their are aspects i like...you can move pieces and get rid of some. but i wouldnt throw the whole thing out. but they have plenty of time to decide that since most of the sw moves have been relating to the past and not future of star wars. we're in our ww2 video game addiction phase of star wars. 

They can always reintroduce concepts of the sequel trilogy that didn't suck ass later. Much like what they are doing with the legends EU. 

[Maxx]

11 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

They can always reintroduce concepts of the sequel trilogy that didn't suck ass later. Much like what they are doing with the legends EU. 

i think about the kids alot. i cant imagine a whole new gen of nerdy kids who really got attached to rey or finn and then find out ..thats it. fuck em. lmfao. Like i think it may do more harm then good. 

[Hawkingbird]

9 minutes ago, Maxx said:

i think about the kids alot. i cant imagine a whole new gen of nerdy kids who really got attached to rey or finn and then find out ..thats it. fuck em. lmfao. Like i think it may do more harm then good. 

It's easy to say fuck em when the merch of those characters were collecting dust. Kylo was the only standout of the sequel characters with everyone else neither being crap or wasted potential. Maybe they'll get vindicate somewhere down the line but time isn't anywhere in the immediate future.

[Maxx]

6 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

It's easy to say fuck em when the merch of those characters were collecting dust. Kylo was the only standout of the sequel characters with everyone else neither being crap or wasted potential. Maybe they'll get vindicate somewhere down the line but time isn't anywhere in the immediate future.

as someone who works with kids and have seen the merch around. im gonna strongly disagree. 

[Hawkingbird]

13 minutes ago, Maxx said:

as someone who works with kids and have seen the merch around. im gonna strongly disagree. 

I work around kids and I haven't seen any of them with anything Star Wars much less anything that came from the sequel trilogy. 

[Maxx]

8 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I work around kids and I haven't seen any of them with anything Star Wars much less anything that came from the sequel trilogy. 

lol i legit would have convos with kids when i was working retail. Id ask them about star wars and favorite characters. At least for me they were about it. 

[Hawkingbird]

6 minutes ago, Maxx said:

lol i legit would have convos with kids when i was working retail. Id ask them about star wars and favorite characters. At least for me they were about it. 

The kids I work around is all about Marvel, Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft and Deadpool. The only time I hear them bring up Star Wars is when it comes to Grogu.

[RSG3]

When I worked at JCPenny during the ST Star Wars product, especially kids product went fast. Kids loved it. So I am also strongly in the disagree catagory. 

 

This would ve like denying kids who grew up on the PT the legitimacy of those experiences because OT fans decided to be rabid haters. PT has vindicated it's existence at this point. So will the ST with the people who grew up with it. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by RSG3

[TheInfernoman]

1 hour ago, Maxx said:

as someone who works with kids and have seen the merch around. im gonna strongly disagree. 

Working at a theme park for 10 years I too work among children...and Grogu has stolen the hearts of many kids. Girls and boys. 

[RSG3]

4 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

Working at a theme park for 10 years I too work among children...and Grogu has stolen the hearts of many kids. Girls and boys. 

Grogu is designed to sell merch. Big eyes, big ears, small and cute and "needs to be protected."  He was going to sell wether Mandolarian was good or not. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by RSG3

[TheInfernoman]

1 minute ago, RSG3 said:

Grogu is designed to sell merch. Big eyes, big ears, small and cute.  He was going to sell wether Mandolarian was good or not. 

Well yeah, it's what Disney tries to do. Star wars was always a merch machine. Add in a cool main character that has a phrase and it's done. I bought my own grogu because I already love Star Wars and yeah, they made the yoda species somehow cute. 

 

...this is the way 🤣

[Maxx]

1 hour ago, TheInfernoman said:

Working at a theme park for 10 years I too work among children...and Grogu has stolen the hearts of many kids. Girls and boys. 

Lmfao my point is about the trilogy. Not the merch God Grogu. 

[RSG3]

Grogu is such a Merch God hes canabalizing the market lol. 

[TheInfernoman]

6 minutes ago, Maxx said:

Lmfao my point is about the trilogy. Not the merch God Grogu. 

and my point is it doesn't matter as kids move onto what is pushed by Disney. Rey was pushed and at the Disney parks, I did see a lot of Rey Costumes, sometimes a Phasma/trooper but I RARELY saw a Finn or Poe...usually it was Kylo and Rey and now the shift changed again. 

[Maxx]

6 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

and my point is it doesn't matter as kids move onto what is pushed by Disney. Rey was pushed and at the Disney parks, I did see a lot of Rey Costumes, sometimes a Phasma/trooper but I RARELY saw a Finn or Poe...usually it was Kylo and Rey and now the shift changed again. 

I think you really under estimate the idea of how representation affects kids or people in general. I def saw Finn stuff and I saw rey stuff. Just cause Grogu is out there it doesn't mean they connect the same way. 

 

In general Disney just made more Grogu stuff. So by comparison you are just gonna see more of it. So even if kids loved rey or Finn by alot... They didn't make alot of stuff. So just appearance alone it's gonna seem like they love it more. Does it make it nessarily true...no..but by appearances Def. 

 

This whole thing went off the fucking rails. My point is representation matters, kids did connect with some of the characters. Star wars in general has almost no black people so id like to see some way to work around it rather than whole sale deletion. 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Maxx

[TheInfernoman]

I would have connected more with either of them if they (who wrote the story and whoever else made the call) actually let the characters do more than what they did in the sequel trilogy...now John won't ever come back and Disney isn't going to fix that and I don't blame John. 

 

Shall I assume representation means here race bruv? 

[Maxx]

51 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

I would have connected more with either of them if they (who wrote the story and whoever else made the call) actually let the characters do more than what they did in the sequel trilogy...now John won't ever come back and Disney isn't going to fix that and I don't blame John. 

 

Shall I assume representation means here race bruv? 

No. It's just one aspect. Representation can mean race as well as gender. Rey affected people. But if you get rid of rey at least their are other strong females in star wars to look up to. In live action their is nothing for black people really.. You can kinda argue Lando but overall Finn is it atm. 

[Darc_Requiem]

If the representation given is Finn then I'd rather not have any. I'll use an example from my childhood. I hated Virgil, the Million Dollar Man's, servant. As a kid, I was like why does the black guy have to be such a punk. Thankfully I had Ron Simmons to look to for representation that was actually worth a damn. They destroyed Finn. He could have been a great character. He had the potential to be an iconic character due to his origin. Storm Trooper turned Jedi.....ah what could have been. Instead we got Galaxy Far Far Away Virgil 😑

Edited December 24, 2020 by Darc_Requiem

[TheInfernoman]

Said it many times, Finn should have been the main character. From the very start he had an interesting story to build upon and it was all pissed away. 

[DangerousJ]

[DangerousJ]

I just finished Mandalorian S2.

 

I liked it a little more than S1. Im a casual SW scrub, so seeing "new" characters like Asoka, Bo Katan was pretty cool.

I was surprised to see the classic character in the end.

 

I don't know what a Darksaber is though.

 

S1 - 7/10

S2 - 8/10

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by DangerousJ

[Darc_Requiem]

2 hours ago, DangerousJ said:

I don't know what a Darksaber is though.

It's just a different type of lightsaber.  It's history, more than the color of the blade, is what makes it unique.

[Maxx]

6 hours ago, TheInfernoman said:

Said it many times, Finn should have been the main character. From the very start he had an interesting story to build upon and it was all pissed away. 

I don't think many would disagree. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Maxx

[M A R T I A N]

7 hours ago, TheInfernoman said:

Said it many times, Finn should have been the main character. From the very start he had an interesting story to build upon and it was all pissed away. 

That's how I feel about a lot of these characters from the ST honestly. Just wasted potential sitting there in front of our eyes. That's why Force Awakens is one of the only new movies I actually enjoyed and don't find to be an almost complete piece of shit. It setup a lot of characters that could have really interesting arcs but none of that stuff is ever fleshed out or committed to. The property was playing hot potato with directors and writers and it's insanely evident from the botched narrative these 3 movies have. 

 

Like, I don't know how you can have such a wide and vast toybox of great characters and world building already, only to do the most trite and thoughtless bullshit possible with them. Finn being EX Stormrooper is interesting. Rey being a complete orphan and not knowing her past is interesting. Poe being a hot headed pilot with a shady past is interesting. Old man Luke is interesting. Abandoning both sides of the force and searching for something new like Kylo wanted to in TLJ is interesting. Hell, even Palpatine's return could have been made into something interesting, but that wasn't earned at all. 

 

I really hope we start getting some great character and world building from these movies again, now that Star Wars is under new and improved management.... Mandalorian, Clone Wars, Rouge One, Force Awakens..... These are all signs to me that if you let an Star Wars fan do his thing, really great things can come from it. 

[Maxx]

8 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

If the representation given is Finn then I'd rather not have any. I'll use an example from my childhood. I hated Virgil, the Million Dollar Man's, servant. As a kid, I was like why does the black guy have to be such a punk. Thankfully I had Ron Simmons to look to for representation that was actually worth a damn. They destroyed Finn. He could have been a great character. He had the potential to be an iconic character due to his origin. Storm Trooper turned Jedi.....ah what could have been. Instead we got Galaxy Far Far Away Virgil 😑

Finn and Virgil to me aren't comparable. They weren't making Virgil toys I assume. Million dollar man was before my time. Finn may have been treated badly.. It was a diff kinda bad. It's bad writing but not a assistant or slave to any character. He had his own story, id just say it should have been told better. But for a kid to like and look up to him isn't wrong. He is a character worth looking up to... It's just they coulda done more which is more or less the story of the franchise. They coulda done more. Star wars is weird.. It may be the only franchise I can think of where the heads listen to the fans. And because they wanna do diff things... The fanbase doesn't like it. 

 

Marvel doesn't give a shit what the fans think. Sony and fox defffff don't give a shit. Star trek more or less doesn't give a shit but the concession is fans can make their own stuff so it's almost a balance. 

 

Disney for some reason listened tk the fans, got scared and backed out of anything interesting outside of grumpy like staying grumpy. I pray they don't retcon it. 

[Darc_Requiem]

17 hours ago, Maxx said:

Finn and Virgil to me aren't comparable. They weren't making Virgil toys I assume. Million dollar man was before my time. Finn may have been treated badly.. It was a diff kinda bad. It's bad writing but not a assistant or slave to any character. He had his own story, id just say it should have been told better. But for a kid to like and look up to him isn't wrong. He is a character worth looking up to... It's just they coulda done more which is more or less the story of the franchise. They coulda done more. Star wars is weird.. It may be the only franchise I can think of where the heads listen to the fans. And because they wanna do diff things... The fanbase doesn't like it. 

 

Marvel doesn't give a shit what the fans think. Sony and fox defffff don't give a shit. Star trek more or less doesn't give a shit but the concession is fans can make their own stuff so it's almost a balance. 

 

Disney for some reason listened tk the fans, got scared and backed out of anything interesting outside of grumpy like staying grumpy. I pray they don't retcon it. 

Actually they did make Virgil toys but that I agree that they aren't comparable. Virgil was supposed to be a joke, he was supposed to draw ire. Finn wasn't supposed to and he did. He was worse. He was comic relief dude that lines consisted of "Where is Rey? Rey? REEEEEYYY!" for two damn movies. You can't even give Disney the excuse of "but it was the 80s."  They showed their ass with the Chinese version of The Force Awakens movie poster. They knew exactly what they were doing. They literally made the worst black character in a Star Wars trilogy. You think Finn would have been the black character from the original trilogy based on how he was handled but nope. Finn is prime example of why I call the latest movies the Sequel Tragedy. How do you make a black character in the last 5 years that comes off like a like token brother from the 60s? He's like a black version of Hop Sing from Bonanza.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Darc_Requiem

[Maxx]

5 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Actually they did make Virgil toys but that I agree that they aren't comparable. Virgil was supposed to be a joke, he was supposed to draw ire. Finn wasn't supposed to and he did. He was worse. He was comic relief dude that lines consisted of "Where is Rey? Rey? REEEEEYYY!" for two damn movies. You can't even give Disney the excuse of "but it was the 80s."  They showed their ass with the Chinese version of The Force Awakens movie poster. They knew exactly what they were doing. They literally made the worst black character in a Star Wars trilogy. You think Finn would have been the black character from the original trilogy based on how he was handled but nope. Finn is prime example of why I call the latest movies the Sequel Tragedy. How do you make a black character in the last 5 years that comes off like a like token brother from the 60s? He's like a black version of Hop Sing from Bonanza.

Sir give me a reference from 1984 or later.. I don't understand these references lmfao 

[Darc_Requiem]

1 hour ago, Maxx said:

Sir give me a reference from 1984 or later.. I don't understand these references lmfao 

My mom watched a metric ton of westerns when I was kid. It's probably why I can't stand them now.

[iStu X]

 

[Wellman]

21 hours ago, Maxx said:

Sir give me a reference from 1984 or later.. I don't understand these references lmfao 

I understand but I had to watch reruns on syndication for a large chunk of my pre college life.

 

It is also how I can say a bad example but technically on par is how the character Captain 'Spearchucker' Jones was handled in M.A.S.H. syndication where they cut his scenes to add more commercials.