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The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

But what are the chances of you ever getting to play people like Daigo, Punk, Wong etc? Most players will never get to play those players because the community is so large and the top players don't generally mix with the hoi polloi on a regular basis. And I imagine it would increase the skill level of the base as a whole if they had access to players of that caliber but most of them never will. 

I mean, I've fought Punk, Idom, Shine, etc and I'm nowhere near as good as them.   Anyone can get to diamond if they put in the time and effort.  If you're arguing for everyone to have access to these players my question is......do you really want that?  Newer players will get stomped and it will likely be a waste of time for both parties.  It's best to fight people around your skill level so you can gradually level up.

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

I mean, I've fought Punk, Idom, Shine, etc and I'm nowhere near as good as them.   Anyone can get to diamond if they put in the time and effort.  If you're arguing for everyone to have access to these players my question is......do you really want that?  Newer players will get stomped and it will likely be a waste of time for both parties.  It's best to fight people around your skill level so you can gradually level up.

I agree with you but at the same time, playing someone far above your skill level is a good test of what you know and what you may not. There have been a lot of things that worked when I'd play players around my skill level that would get me blown up against someone at the top the game. Not everyone is going to want to play on that level or play those kinds of players, but for those that do, playing someone at the top of the game really helps you improve quickly especially if you can play them regularly. 

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

As for the "whether - or" question I'll be honest and say that I'd rather have a big pool of average players to fight than a small pool of really good ones. I don't hide that I play fighting games rather casually. Not the jumping around and mashing buttons levels of casual, obviously. I look up my punishes, I pay attention to my spacing and screen position, I anti-air (sometimes), but the moment a combo needs a microwalk or a button is only considered good if you can single hit confirm it I'm out.

 

So for me a group of player that is fine just being at that level as potential playing partners is ideal. It's not that I don't want to get better, but it's just that I don't want to put more effort into it, if that makes sense? I want to come home from a day off work, boot up the game, be only at 70-80% because I'm either a bit tired or annoyed and still managed to win a game or two. Fantasy Strike at one point didn't derank you out of the highest rank. I managed to get there for reasons I don't know and I was literally the worst player at the highest level in that game. I got outplayed in every single match until they reset the ranks again and it was ultimately just a very miserable experience. I can see why really competitive players would prefer a smaller, but also stronger envirnment, but I think that might just drive me away from the genre for good.

 

 

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, delete_me said:

As for the "whether - or" question I'll be honest and say that I'd rather have a big pool of average players to fight than a small pool of really good ones. I don't hide that I play fighting games rather casually. Not the jumping around and mashing buttons levels of casual, obviously. I look up my punishes, I pay attention to my spacing and screen position, I anti-air (sometimes), but the moment a combo needs a microwalk or a button is only considered good if you can single hit confirm it I'm out.

 

So for me a group of player that is fine just being at that level as potential playing partners is ideal. It's not that I don't want to get better, but it's just that I don't want to put more effort into it, if that makes sense? I want to come home from a day off work, boot up the game, be only at 70-80% because I'm either a bit tired or annoyed and still managed to win a game or two. Fantasy Strike at one point didn't derank you out of the highest rank. I managed to get there for reasons I don't know and I was literally the worst player at the highest level in that game. I got outplayed in every single match until they reset the ranks again and it was ultimately just a very miserable experience. I can see why really competitive players would prefer a smaller, but also stronger envirnment, but I think that might just drive me away from the genre for good.

 

 

I'm the same way for games I play more casually. MK11 is a good example, I just wanted to jump on, play a few matches, have a good time and move it along, and that game is perfect for that.  

 

I guess the closest thing to a "right" answer is that it depends on how involved you are in the game. Personally I feel like playing lower level players is a waste of time unless I'm learning new characters in a game I'm trying to be more competitive with, but I only have a couple games I feel that way about. Most other games I'm good with a large pool of randoms. 

Edited by DoctaMario
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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted

I don't know if people are still paying attention to SFV, or just waiting desperately for Luke to save the game, but I feel like Akira players are getting her V-trigger choice all wrong.

 

With Daigo, 99% of the time you either get one good chunk of damage off a hit confirm, or one really tepid mix-up if you activate on block.

 

With VT2, you're still getting that damage on hit confirm, but now you're also juicing up a big chunk of your subsequent gameplay with safe (or even plus) hit confirms into solid damage off of almost every normal, and a bonus tool for anti-fireball/far anti-air.

 

I think people keep using VT1 like they expect it to be Seth's orb, and it really isn't anywhere near as good.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 9/5/2021 at 6:53 PM, Pair of Rooks said:

False dichotomy, but a bigger question anyway: why bother getting good at a game few play?

 

Because this whole hobby was about getting good at something that few people played. That's the part that was magical about SRK and running into FGC people in the wild. You liked these games, you thought you were hot shit, then suddenly some person comes along that does some bullshit that's stupid hard to beat and blows your mind with it. Then you go "oh shit its like that, and people have tournaments? WTF?!"

 

I don't know when or where people decided that size was what made things matter in a hobby. Ever see people with weird niche hobbies? Those people usually have the biggest smiles when they meet somebody else who loves the same thing they do. Because what matters is the thing you love doing. Florence has a whole sport that only gets played once a year for 3 games and dudes dedicate all year to it. You think they care whether or not it gets adopted by the rest of the planet? Hell no. They would probably rather it didn't because it matters that much to them.

 

There's a lot of FGs out there. But being able to play the game you love with other people that love it is the best feeling in this scene. Nothing will ever be as good as rolling up to a small set up with a few people in it and see that game that makes you smile. I rather be a mid tier player in MvC2 than a godlike player at SF5. Why? Because I genuinely love one of those games. Doesn't matter how good I got in SF5, it still isn't the same feeling as playing MvC2. My issue with smashers has never been about them playing a game they love or trying to push it as far as they can; its always been about the weird insecurity they carried about needing FGC acknowledgement. Just play that shit that you love. Doesn't matter that its not a fighting game; only matters that you show up to play something that makes you happy.

 

So that's it. 20 or 20,000, if at the end of the day I can sit down, play some games on something I love, learn how to get better and have some fun, that's all that matters.

 

M:TG has exploded in popularity since I quit. I spent decades playing, I've forgotten an insane amount of info along the way. But  whenever I visit my local card shop, the game and the people playing it are basically unrecognizable to me. I have nothing in common with them. The FGC did a similar thing to itself and people cheered it as OGs/Boomers getting left out for something better. That was always questionable.

 

_____________________________________________________________

 

New games having big populations is good. Like Docta said, being able to boot up your console/PC and find people readily is great. In a similar vein GGPO/Fightcade are similarly good for that. You log in and dudes throwing you challenges you from the jump.

 

This is also why new releases matter a lot. A new release being bad and splitting the good players away from casual ones makes it so that you don't get enough of a player base to hook people in to the FGC where they can get good.

 

 

Edited by Sonero
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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Because this whole hobby was about getting good at something that few people played. That's the part that was magical about SRK and running into FGC people in the wild. You liked these games, you thought you were hot shit, then suddenly some person comes along that does some bullshit that's stupid hard to beat and blows your mind with it. Then you go "oh shit its like that, and people have tournaments? WTF?!"

 

Great fucking post. 

 

I was just a little too young to be able to play a lot at the arcade back when SF2 came out, but when I read about the old days and how you'd have a couple guys that would go town to town, finding good players, hearing about some guy who had a sick Guile in some place and driving 2 hours out there hoping he'd be at the arcade, trading tips and combos, it makes me realize that the FGC has kind of lost the program in some ways. The FGC is bigger and more popular than its ever been, we have online games now, were spoiled for choice when it comes to games, we have big tournaments, eSports, a plethora of resources to learn from, social media to connect with other players, etc, but the old days sounds way more fun. Call me crazy, say it's nostalgia goggles, but it really does. 

Edited by DoctaMario
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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Reticently said:

I don't know if people are still paying attention to SFV, or just waiting desperately for Luke to save the game, but I feel like Akira players are getting her V-trigger choice all wrong.

 

With Daigo, 99% of the time you either get one good chunk of damage off a hit confirm, or one really tepid mix-up if you activate on block.

 

With VT2, you're still getting that damage on hit confirm, but now you're also juicing up a big chunk of your subsequent gameplay with safe (or even plus) hit confirms into solid damage off of almost every normal, and a bonus tool for anti-fireball/far anti-air.

 

I think people keep using VT1 like they expect it to be Seth's orb, and it really isn't anywhere near as good.

Yeah,  VT2 is really under explored.  It was written off in favour of VT1 way too quickly.  VT1 is more of a one and done and the damage often isn't that much unless you have the opponent cornered.  I don't think people are factoring in the utility of having consistent safe pressure after activation with VT2.

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Volta Level 11

Volta

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Sonero said:

I don't know when or where people decided that size was what made things matter in a hobby. Ever see people with weird niche hobbies? Those people usually have the biggest smiles when they meet somebody else who loves the same thing they do. Because what matters is the thing you love doing. Florence has a whole sport that only gets played once a year for 3 games and dudes dedicate all year to it. You think they care whether or not it gets adopted by the rest of the planet? Hell no. They would probably rather it didn't because it matters that much to them.

Not to mention that the more popular an activity becomes, the more it will be catered towards the lowest common denominator. If the developers/inventors of any activity, not just gaming, smell money, they will dumb it down to the point where any mouth breather can have a crack at it. SFV is the perfect example of this. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I doubt we'll ever see a game such as ST again (at least as a triple A release), or a VF6 without super meters.

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iEmptyeyes Level 2

iEmptyeyes

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Sonero said:

But being able to play the game you love with other people that love it is the best feeling in this scene.

I agree.  I must thank you months ago for encouraging me to refer to FightCade, having to spend alot of time on GGPO in 2006 to 2008. FightCade saved me the trouble from further retail therapy on new generation fighters. While Fighting Ex Layer Another Dash and Virtua Fighter are fun enough, but 1980s and 1990s fighting games will forever have me. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

The FGC is bigger and more popular than its ever been, we have online games now, were spoiled for choice when it comes to games, we have big tournaments, eSports, a plethora of resources to learn from, social media to connect with other players, etc, but the old days sounds way more fun. Call me crazy, say it's nostalgia goggles, but it really does. 

 

Huddling around a cab was a special experience because it was both a game and a place to hang out.  You walked to a game you liked and sometimes other people who really liked it were there. That was an instant icebreaker situation. That's a really cool experience. Didn't matter if you had good social skills, you put a quarter and played well? Shiiiet that's all that needs to be said.

 

Similarly there are just a bunch of different small things that had a lot of worth to them. I was gonna write a long ass post about it but bleh, it'd be preaching to a small choir. A lot of people have made it their bread and butter to basically shit on anything from 5 to 10 years ago as "bad" because it was old. Take a look at SRK as an idea. They let it go to shit, now its only twitter and things suck.

 

M:TG is suffering hard from this. Most of it is due to how bad of a company WoTC is. People gotta stop taking all change as good change. I'm not saying be staunchly against it but really listen to valid criticism in good faith.

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Huddling around a cab was a special experience because it was both a game and a place to hang out.  You walked to a game you liked and sometimes other people who really liked it were there. That was an instant icebreaker situation. That's a really cool experience. Didn't matter if you had good social skills, you put a quarter and played well? Shiiiet that's all that needs to be said.

 

 

I remember doing that, even if it was just watching other people play, and then people putting quarters up and the smell of fried food from the bar across the way lol. 

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Reticently said:

I don't know if people are still paying attention to SFV, or just waiting desperately for Luke to save the game, but I feel like Akira players are getting her V-trigger choice all wrong.

 

Aw, come one, I pointed that out about two or three weeks ago. Daigo is the scrub killer V-Trigger that works up to and including Gold, because for some reason people seem to think that hitting any button before the aura explosion will do something good for them (it doesn't).

 

After that you're better off having Trigger 2 for, like you say,  an activation that isn't immediately "lost" if you do it on block, new hit-confirms, pressure and what is arguably her best and most reliable anti-fireball move (back + HK during the stance, really good against air fireballs also).

 

And while we're at it I'd also like to point out again that VS1 is better than VS2, despite some of the funky crossup/non-crossup shenanigans people keep finding with the latter. VS2 doesn't add anything to her gameplan, it just gives her another combo to do when she manages to open up her opponent. VS1 on the other hand helps her opening up said opponent in the first place which for this character in particular is just a better tool to have.

 

Edit: Case in point for VS2: it works really well with Trigger 1. So if you choose the wrong Trigger, you can also choose the wrong V-Skill, like a minus and minus equals plus scenario. 

Edited by delete_me
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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, delete_me said:

I pointed that out about two or three weeks ago a

Yeah, I'm just surprised that we're almost a month in and so many other people playing Akira haven't been able to figure it out yet.  To the point where the Akira discord will argue with you if you mention it,lol.

 

The V-skill choice is at least a lot less clear cut.  Having vs1 stocked and a meter to spend is her best situation, but a savvy opponent isn't going to give you a lot of space to stock that.  Vs2 gives you that strong corner situation, more consistency, and some goofy situations with very high corner carry (stuff like mid screen f.hp cc, launch, air walk them with jabs to the wall, into corner oki).  So I don't really think she's gimping herself with either vs.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, Reticently said:

Having vs1 stocked and a meter to spend is her best situation, but a savvy opponent isn't going to give you a lot of space to stock that.

 

Yeah, charging it can be a bit of an issue in certain matchups but at the same time that means the opponent is getting in your face which is where Akira wants to be herself also. Against zoners there's usually a big enough gap between fireballs to store it unless you're facing one of the quicker plasma throwers like Sagat or Guile. It takes a bit more micromanagement but I think it's worth it in most cases. Also allows some extra juicy corner combos after stun.

 

 

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted

Swapped to Cammy and made Super Silver for the first time.

 

Ibuki’s fun, but a little too gimmicky for me. I just want someone solid and Cammy suits me better (in SFV anyway).

 

the kicker is I would’ve hit super silver a long time ago if I just stuck with one character instead of struggling in a few silver matches, changing mains, and creating a new alt account for that main to rank up from, then struggling in silver with them, and repeating with a new main and account… the dumbest thing was I was trying to make a new alt account for Ibuki but was having issues getting it approved via PSN, so I just stuck with my normal account. Glad I did… not that super silver is any hard feat, but glad to finally make some sort of improvement, and be able to fight a random ultra silver for the first time lol.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Don't feel bad man. I've been mainly using Kolin for years and the highest I got was one game from hitting gold. I made a choice, I can play more and stress about points. Or just play periodically and have fun. I chose the latter. 

Yeah, I think when I hit gold, I’m just going to log off lol.

 

my main driver for playing SFV ranked again was honestly, I was thinking about why I’m playing FGs and was close to hanging them up for the most part, but then started to feel let down I never made gold, knowing that’s a realistic goal for me, and I goal I had numerous times. Anyways, I guess I’m 3/4 of the way now.

 

also, if you (or anyone) is up for games later tonight, let me know.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Yeah, I think when I hit gold, I’m just going to log off lol.

 

my main driver for playing SFV ranked again was honestly, I was thinking about why I’m playing FGs and was close to hanging them up for the most part, but then started to feel let down I never made gold, knowing that’s a realistic goal for me, and I goal I had numerous times. Anyways, I guess I’m 3/4 of the way now.

 

also, if you (or anyone) is up for games later tonight, let me know.

I probably can etch out some time to play when I get home from work.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sonero said:

Its still wild to me that you guys have a hard time getting to gold. 

 

That does not make sense 

I just don't want to put in the time.  If I played ranked every day, I could hit gold. I can take games off of players a tier above gold. I just don't feel like playing ranked all the time. It doesn't scratch the same itch as having $5.00 that I had to stretch for 2 to 3 hours in the arcade. SF was $0.75 a pop. So I only got 6 games. It was 'get gud' or spend hours with thumb my ass because I got bodied in 15 minutes. You played dudes that saw you all time, knew your weaknesses, and you had to adapt or be stuck playing spectator. It's why I like lounging with you guys over ranked. You've played me, you know what I do, and I have to be on point to stand a chance. Since most of you are better than me, I get an actual sense of accomplishment when I win a match. It's the closest I get to the feeling I got in the arcade days. 

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Its still wild to me that you guys have a hard time getting to gold. 

 

That does not make sense 

It took me a long time to understand when I should (and when I should not) press buttons in this game, and I’m still learning.

 

Ambiguous cross-ups have also F’d me up a lot

 

edit: also, this game tilts me a lot and makes me very emotional, which has lead to a lot of chokes (dropping confirms, combos, AAs, etc) when it really matters

Edited by Mattatsu
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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

I was losing pretty badly to Harryamen in bracket. I threw a Hado, made him jump, then hit him with a DP. I could have easily hit the double DP as the kara wasn't necessary in that case and I would have won... but the Hado I threw earlier that he jumped over got reflected offscreen and came back... and killed me after the first DP landed...

Had to clip myself. An eternal L.

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