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The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Sonero said:

Doesn't even help the fact that the best DP to mash on defense is Ibuki's. She gets to have a 3 frame DP that isn't invincible to anything, but because of the priority system will trade favorably for her in those places. If it whiffs it doesn't put her in a crush counter state. Oh that's right, we forgot to mention that part. These DPs lost hella invincibility AND THEN they still would get punished to hell and back.

I'd rather have a DP that's invincible to something than Ibuki's which is pretty useless.  It being crush counterable or not is kind of a non-issue since CC damage has been nerfed to a point where it's comparable to just counterhit medium x heavy and you don't have to deal with spacing issues.  

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

I'd rather have a DP that's invincible to something than Ibuki's which is pretty useless. 

 

Except it isn't useless for exactly the reasons I stated. In a game with very little defensive options, you get to mash a 3 frame attack that's not subject to the priority system. That's incredibly good.

 

CC damage may have been nerfed, but you still hand them a grip of v-meter when you let them have one. Only reason they didn't adjust the CC situation after nerfing regular DPs was to make CCs more visible. There wasn't a whole lot to justify stripping Ryu's DP of usefulness and still make it missing it that level of detrimental.

 

@Volt Ken's DP in ST is insanely good and shouldn't be in other FGs in the same way. Doesn't mean it exists without counterplay. I'm not asking for that level of wackiness to come back. But the way SF5 went around feels more like wankery than something that feels good.

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sonero said:

Except it isn't useless for exactly the reasons I stated. In a game with very little defensive options, you get to mash a 3 frame attack that's not subject to the priority system. That's incredibly good.

Why would you mash her DP when you can mash a 3 frame normal which converts into more damage with way less risk?  

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

Why would you mash her DP when you can mash a 3 frame normal which converts into more damage with way less risk?  

 

Because a lot of the frame traps for 3 frame normals rely in the priorities system to function.  Instead of having an actual 2 frame gap, I creates a 3 frame gap and then if the opponent matched, the medium or heavy normal eats the 3 framer.

 

For example Cammy used to be able to do cr.mp, cr.mp as a frame trap for 3 frame normals. The problem is that this isn't an actual frame trap. Cr.mp used to be +2 on block with 5 frame start up. So if you had a 3 frame normal and mashed on her, the jab would lose from the priority system, not because it was hit in the start up frames. Cr.mp would've needed to be +3 to be mathematically tight. 

 

In the case of Ibuki's DP, in that situation she could mash in light DP to force a trade. Because the DP will hit on the same frame as the cr.mp. Old Zeku's st.mp is 6 frames and +3. St.mp, st.mp beats 3 framers but trades with Ibuki's dp. She can go suck all the nuts for that.

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Because a lot of the frame traps for 3 frame normals rely in the priorities system to function.  Instead of having an actual 2 frame gap, I creates a 3 frame gap and then if the opponent matched, the medium or heavy normal eats the 3 framer.

 

For example Cammy used to be able to do cr.mp, cr.mp as a frame trap for 3 frame normals. The problem is that this isn't an actual frame trap. Cr.mp used to be +2 on block with 5 frame start up. So if you had a 3 frame normal and mashed on her, the jab would lose from the priority system, not because it was hit in the start up frames. Cr.mp would've needed to be +3 to be mathematically tight. 

 

In the case of Ibuki's DP, in that situation she could mash in light DP to force a trade. Because the DP will hit on the same frame as the cr.mp. Old Zeku's st.mp is 6 frames and +3. St.mp, st.mp beats 3 framers but trades with Ibuki's dp. She can go suck all the nuts for that.

I see what you're saying but it's still not a reliable option in terms of risk/reward.  Cody has an invincible reversal on frame 3 by mashing two buttons and he has one of the worst defenses in the game mainly because he doesn't have a 3 frame normal/EX DP like Ibuki.   When he first came out I tried to rely on this and got completely blown up for it.  There's enough defensive options in the game now with Vshift/Vbreak that you shouldn't really ever be doing non-metered mashed DP's unless you have 0 meter and have a strong read.  

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

I see what you're saying but it's still not a reliable option in terms of risk/reward.  Cody has an invincible reversal on frame 3 by mashing two buttons and he has one of the worst defenses in the game mainly because he doesn't have a 3 frame normal/EX DP like Ibuki.

 

What? That means that if you spend some time studying up some frame data, you can find which buttons you can force trades with Ibuki's DP. The Risk/Reward is skewed specially because on trade your opponent is sent flying away and if the bait it and whiffs, they don't get a CC punish.

 

Mind you, Ibuki has both a 3 frame jab AND a 3 frame DP. So you have to use those frame traps on her and those frame traps get "beaten" by DP.

 

2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

I’ve never really understood the point of counterhit recovery on DPs it seems like redundant game design. Like what is a bit of extra damage really adding that isn’t already accomplished by the full combo punish literally every character gets after blocking a DP? 

 

You get way different punishes if you have a guaranteed Counterhit. In SF5 you get the Crush Counter punish which amounted to a hell of a lot until they fixed it. Even after, with Young Zeku its the difference between starting a combo with St.HK as opposed to a St.MP. The difference on damage and stun is very different. Can't get you numbers right now since no way am I loading that up but it goes from like 220 damage to 300 damage.

 

In Strive the difference is even bigger. You whiff a DP near Gio and she's walking away with at least 40% of your life bar.

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Sonero said:

What? That means that if you spend some time studying up some frame data, you can find which buttons you can force trades with Ibuki's DP. The Risk/Reward is skewed specially because on trade your opponent is sent flying away and if the bait it and whiffs, they don't get a CC punish.

 

Mind you, Ibuki has both a 3 frame jab AND a 3 frame DP. So you have to use those frame traps on her and those frame traps get "beaten" by DP.

I'll just leave this here.  Kazunoko the king of mashing reversals against the frame trap king Balrog.  

 

 

He interrupted a few times with st.jab and ex DP.  Mashed non-metered DP's = 0.

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AriesWarlock Level 18

AriesWarlock

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, FengShuiEnergy said:

Anyhting new in 2022?

Besides a possible war with Russia? This

 

Rumor that Bandai Namco is making a new Killer Instinct in Japan is circulating, Maximilian offers details and speculation

 

 

In his video Max references a Windows Central article written by Jez Corden. Windows Central is a Microsoft-focused outlet and Corden is its Senior Editor, and after talking about the XboxEra comments from October, Corden offers the following to us:

 

"I have also heard the vaguest of unsubstantiated rumors that one of Bandai Namco's fighting game development teams may be involved, although I haven't been able to independently verify that yet myself. Previously speaking at an event, someone at Xbox told me that finding a studio or building a team with the specific expertise to make a fighting game was difficult

"Naturally, Bandai Namco is responsible for franchises like Soulcalibur and Tekken, and has even contributed to Smash Bros. Ultimate as well. It would make sense to get them involved if indeed Microsoft is exploring reviving the classic fighter."

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

I'll just leave this here.  Kazunoko the king of mashing reversals against the frame trap king Balrog.  

 

 

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove. Him not using one of the options Ibuki has (which you can load up SF5 and check for yourself) doesn't mean anything I said was wrong.

 

That's an option Ibuki has, its very practical to take if you wanna go for it and it works because of the stuff I explained already. I've already given explanations on worthwhile stuff that people handwaved for shits and giggles so I'm not gonna be in the business of trying to convince you of worthwhile things. Use it, don't use it, won't make much of a difference to me.

 

I guess have fun holding certain blockstring longer than you need to because you don't wanna take a trade in your favor.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Tell that to the people that want the original Grand Theft Trilogy games on console after Rockstar delisted them 👀

If they bought it, they got it.

 

What are the odds of you walking into a store and getting original sealed copies?🤷‍♂️

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FengShuiEnergy Level 4

FengShuiEnergy

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, AriesWarlock said:

Besides a possible war with Russia? This

 

Rumor that Bandai Namco is making a new Killer Instinct in Japan is circulating, Maximilian offers details and speculation

 

 

In his video Max references a Windows Central article written by Jez Corden. Windows Central is a Microsoft-focused outlet and Corden is its Senior Editor, and after talking about the XboxEra comments from October, Corden offers the following to us:

 

"I have also heard the vaguest of unsubstantiated rumors that one of Bandai Namco's fighting game development teams may be involved, although I haven't been able to independently verify that yet myself. Previously speaking at an event, someone at Xbox told me that finding a studio or building a team with the specific expertise to make a fighting game was difficult

"Naturally, Bandai Namco is responsible for franchises like Soulcalibur and Tekken, and has even contributed to Smash Bros. Ultimate as well. It would make sense to get them involved if indeed Microsoft is exploring reviving the classic fighter."

Hmm well I do have SC6 and I do like my some SC, namco has been good on that end. Guess we will have to see. That also means a potential PS release! Oh please let THAT be true.

 

Edited by FengShuiEnergy
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Volt said:

If they bought it, they got it.

 

What are the odds of you walking into a store and getting original sealed copies?🤷‍♂️

Better than downloading something that isn't available. GTA Trilogy games are old. People that buy the crappy new versions may want to go back to play old ones after hearing they were better but they don't have that option. I know people that found out about The Last Remnant when the "remaster" was launched but couldn't buy it on PC because Square delisted before the remaster launched and never released a PC version. 

 

Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with digital. I just have problem with all digital. Over the holiday I snagged a few PS5 games for $15 and $20 bucks that cost twice as much digitally. Without a physical option, people will get fucked over. I'm getting my PC upgraded and I saw a PS5 All Digital display at the shop. The tech and I started talking about this very issue and he brought up how he snagged Cyberpunk 2077 for $8 in bargain when it was delisted from the PSN store. 

 

Side note: What I have a REAL problem with is "fake" physical games. It's why I import some Switch titles. However a few Xbox titles like Halo Infinite aren't really on the disk. That should only be the case for online only games.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

@Darc_Requiemhow much better is SFV on PC than PS5? Is it a noticeable improvement?

The gap isn't as big as with PS4 but the game still runs better. Despite my PS5 having a faster SSD. Than either my laptop or desktop, it loads faster on PC. Input delay is still lower on PC. If SFV on PS5 was optimized for the platform it would run just as well as PC but it's just running in back compat mode. Edit: Plus they never released a PS4 Pro patch so it wasn't even taken advantage of the PS4 Pro. The only reason it runs better on Pro is the system level update Sony release that basically let PS4 games on PS4 Pro take advantage of the additional CPU clock speed.

 

PC>>PS5>PS4 Pro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PS4

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Side note: What I have a REAL problem with is "fake" physical games.

Yep. That's very much a thing now. Especially with all the updating and whatever that needs to happen for a game to work for real.

 

Realistically speaking, if you care about preservation, PC is the way to go. One way or another, if it was out on PC, you can still find it *somewhere.*

 

The whole deal about Digital vs Physical ain't as important as it sounds. Both eventually got an expiration date for different reasons.

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