The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

Shakunetsu · April 22, 2021

Continuing in The Fool beyond tarot

Or that Capcom didn't research well on the subject or about Tarots clearly.

The last time they did it slightly right was with SFA OAV

Menat is The Fool because she underestimated G.

Like everyone else

On 4/19/2021 at 2:09 PM, Doctrine_Dark said:

Rose to G: "Your card is The World. The power you wield foretells of..." *gasp*
G to Rose: "Perhaps you can see it now, citizen of Earth. I am the beginning and the end!"

BUT Oops my mistake, I did missed out with Rose win quote against G suggesting his more fitting as "The World" instead, which is close

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet I still believe there is a upcoming major event that "G" will became "The Fool" in that situation, So I would still reserve him being be "The Fool" in the future that will either change or transform him into something else.

Fate isn't set into Stone so it isn't something that he is meant to be "Q" , he would likely be Q if after the event he didn't overcome the situation

11 hours ago, Joke said:

I wonder if this is all going to lead to SFIII being effectively noncanon since Gills whole plot in 3 is p much trying to gather the worthy to survive the apocalypse that he foresaw, which i assume is the same one Rose has seen

Its bound to happen but it can be in a different way

This time Bison might live, G might be gone and Gill is still there. Rose might sacrifice herself. (That's my theory on Rose)

But there are things to consider

Secret Society isn't the greater threat that Rose is up against and worried. So SF3 main big bady organization will still do there thing, but Secret Society goal was to dispatch Bison before SF3 timeline and they failed that it was Ryu that did the Job done.

Like what would happen is Shadaloo would go after Secret Society because they became aware of their plot against Bison? Will they destroy each other first?

Its unbeknownst to many if Bison is even aware of the Secret Society or the assassination plot by them against him because he never mentioned it when he was against NASH in the cinematic mode. Bison was only aware of Necali but was not with Nash current linked association, And also Balrog and Ed had been working with Urien secretly. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I'm not counting the win quotes and dialogues of Bison with the secret society members because they are highly what if, because Bison is dead after the Shadow Falls.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Shakunetsu

ShockDingo · April 22, 2021

I haven't followed the Tarot card debate here closely, but I'd just like to remind people that the lack of clarity may be intentional. Rose was having trouble detecting G's fate, but managed to draw the Fool early in his debut (Menat just assumed he was dumb, she didn't draw it), as a result that's why she sent Menat to investigate. Menat was overwhelmed trying to read him and got beaten, as his power & influence grew that's when Rose decided to take this on herself and upon meeting G she makes note that "the wheel of fate has already turned".

So his gathering of followers may have been the subtle nail in the coffin for the Street Fighter world. I've suspected that he has some ability to obscure or hide his nature, thus making him difficult to read. Menat's inexperienced, but capable, Dhalsim's pretty great, and Rose's powers are perfectly suited to true fortune telling, so it makes sense that if G's a tough egg to crack, it would take Rose directly confronting him to learn the truth, while others either were confused by G or totally mislead. Just my .02 and pocket lint.

Daemos · April 22, 2021

4 hours ago, Sonero said:

Show me the slide or it didn't happen.

😤

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/sfa3rose4.gif

Repent you fools!

@DarthEnder

I'm sure they meant she was a former student in some highschool in Italy.

Sonero · April 22, 2021

Neat, even a random wiki says this.

Its a good thing Rose stopped her tutelage under M.Bison, she became a much better character for it.

Daemos · April 22, 2021

20 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Neat, even a random wiki says this.

Its a good thing Rose stopped her tutelage under M.Bison, she became a much better character for it.

She was not worthy of his teachings!

DarthEnderX · April 22, 2021

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/arcade/c/sfa3rose4.gif

But is that localization accurate?

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

I'm sure they meant she was a former student in some highschool in Italy.

Funny. But, like I said, another actually possible interpretation is that she is a fellow "former student" of the same master.

Edited April 22, 2021 by DarthEnderX

N-Tactix · April 22, 2021

I was going to go and translate the Alpha 3 ending myself but it turns out that @Lord_Vegadid a great job already doing that in the old threads, much better than what I had gotten. The English version is just more blunt and direct with the delivery of its phrases with the use of "you" and "I"

https://forums.shoryuken.com/t/the-ultra-inevitable-street-fighter-v-story-thread/586509/2972

Jap: Rose: The master from the past… Now… Must be killed by these hands…

As an aside, I honestly wish I had some hacking ability so I could completely change the text of the CPS2/3 era games to have more accurate translations. The Megaman X games up to 6 already have romhacks that have better scripts as their features and I think SF and Darkstalkers would especially benefit due to having way more detailed dialogue, the latter having only 4 victory quotes per characters in the International versions yet the characters have a whole slew of them on top of the epilogues. The Japanese version of MvSF even has differing victory quotes based on teams.

Edited April 22, 2021 by N-Tactix
Grammar errors

Shakunetsu · April 22, 2021

Who do you think other probable decent guest characters from internal brands of Capcom other than Darkstalkers, Rivalschool, Slammasters and Final Fight?

What if it would be Resident Evil doing a crossover to SF and there would be a Zombie apocalypse?

N-Tactix · April 22, 2021

41 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

What if it would be Resident Evil doing a crossover to SF and there would be a Zombie apocalypse?

If it's in a main game then definitely a huge no. If it was something like a spin off game/VS/Mobile game than I would be more open to the idea.

I'd say another crossover that would work would be Power Stone and Strider Hiryu. Again, not in a mainline game.

Edited April 22, 2021 by N-Tactix

Shakunetsu · April 22, 2021

Just now, N-Tactix said:

I'd say another crossover that would work would be Power Stone

power stone is a good choice and a huge surprise if that ever would happened

Just now, N-Tactix said:

If it's in a main game then definitely a huge no. If it was something like a spin off game/VS/Mobile game than I would be more open to the idea.

I'm really wondering who is the threat and it what form, it isn't G also that is the problem

Capcom is doing everything for the RE series it's like ther money printing machine nowadays.

I feared that they may pull something like that because of a plan reboot and thing about secret society is about gene manipulation

N-Tactix · April 22, 2021

It's as you said, RE is a big money printer for Capcom, more so now than it usually was. Doing a crossover would be damaging to both series' involved. They're better off seperate. It would just be awkward and alienate the fans. This isn't KOF where they could get away with stuff like this.

Darc_Requiem · April 22, 2021

Praise be to Rose's SFV story. It really sparked up the discussion here.

bakfromon · April 22, 2021

8 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

BUT Oops my mistake, I did missed out with Rose win quote against G suggesting his more fitting as "The World" instead, which is close

The irony being that Ryu is the World card in SFV. It's like the cards tell us something that the story is reversing😂

Dragonfave723 · April 23, 2021

Lord_Vega · April 23, 2021

On 4/19/2021 at 5:46 PM, Darc_Requiem said:

@Lord_Vega First of all glad to have the real Lord Vega here. As for Rose, I'd always assumed she was around 40. That's what I thought middle age was when I was in my teens and 20s.

Glad to be here too! Yeah, @Miðgarðsormmentioned that there was a phony Lord Vega causing trouble. Thank God it seems he got banned.

Rose could be in her mid to late 40's in SFV. Looks can be deceiving...

Take a look at Chuando on the left. Would you say he's over 50?

On 4/19/2021 at 6:02 PM, Miðgarðsorm said:

Hello, Lord Vega! Yes, it is. She never mentions in the original Japanese to be the active subject of the sentence. She believed that by removing Shadaloo and Bison and so on. It's not that she herself had to do it.

EXACTLY what I thought. Thanks @Miðgarðsorm!!!!

On 4/20/2021 at 7:25 AM, Hawkingbird said:

I'm surprised Oro didn't act like a perverted old man in Rose's story. That was one of his character traits in 3rd.

He didn't do that in Menat's story either.

On 4/20/2021 at 9:37 AM, Miðgarðsorm said:

Rose is too old, come on. He wanted Ibuki...

I want a Alcina Dimitrescu skin for Rose! And I know I'm not the only one.... 😜

On 4/20/2021 at 9:56 PM, bakfromon said:

I was thinking that SFV Rose is either projecting her memories to her past self and her past self misinterprets the doomsday as Bisons doing but it is in fact Gs doing ....or they're actually setting up for a reboot of some sort.

Actually, that could and couldn't be the case.... Rose, back in the Zero 1 account mentions about an increasing power that could lead to a worldwide catastrophe, she recognizes it as Soul Power as well, but from a different kind...
In Vega's Zero 1 ending, he mentions that they have the same power, and that, after Rose's death, he became the only one able to pass Psycho (and Soul?) Power along.

What Rose could have seen in her visions at the time, was the catastrophe that Psycho Power could do through the Psycho Drive weapon. Once that menace was neutralised (with the destruction of the Psycho Drive and Vega's body), her visions could foresee the next catastrophe. She warns Ryu about being the world's only hope in SFIV and even foresees his battle against Vega. What she was looking at, was the Black Moons plan, where Psycho Power would reach it's highest peak, even higher than in Zero 3, but she also saw that Ryu would fight Vega. That's why she tried to stop him from facing Seth and possibly losing his life in the process. Seth was meant te be dealt with by Vega and Juri. Not Ryu.

Now, both Rose and G saw the end of the world by another mean... I don't think G is the one causing it, but Gill with his Utopia and who knows by which means he might use to reach it.

However, if G's space station becomes canon.... that could be the "gigantic glacier falling into the ocean." Or it could be the Black Moons... Or Both.

On 4/21/2021 at 3:24 PM, Shakunetsu said:

I just hope they fully abandon the sharing soul or bison removing the good side of his soul thing that made rose. by never giving any kinda of hint related and connected to that in future games

The good side of his sould being removed to create Rose was never mentioned by Capcom. It was all from the fanbase, even Vasili that went with that theory. The only thing that Capcom mentioned was that they share/have the same soul. Period.

Although it's nice to see both halves's particularities: Vega can soul jump to other bodies, while... Rose's can make her consciouness time travel?

On 4/21/2021 at 9:43 PM, Daemos said:

Bison's other half my ass! Where is LordVega? Someone call him in here let me rub it in!

Yeah, right! There's no way for Capcom to dismiss this unless outright saying so. Just like they did in Zero 3...

What Capcom could do is having Rose say: "You made me think that we shared the same soul..." or something like that.

On 4/21/2021 at 9:47 PM, Daemos said:

No. Rose outright tells Bison in Alpha3 that she used to call him Master. She was always his student until he abandoned her to pursue his dreams/her nightmares.

It's been staring us in the face for decades and people still hung on to bullshit that inevitably lead us into the Legend of Chun-Li movie. Curse you Plot Guide!

And Vega outright tells Rose:

The translation for that sentence in japanese is: "Although/despite different lives … the soul …"

He does't say "From now on, our different lives will share the same soul." There's also the sentence of them "returning just like our wish/desire". That sentence alone would imply they being physically together again... however, next he mentions about two lives having the same soul... so.

7 hours ago, N-Tactix said:

I was going to go and translate the Alpha 3 ending myself but it turns out that @Lord_Vegadid a great job already doing that in the old threads, much better than what I had gotten. The English version is just more blunt and direct with the delivery of its phrases with the use of "you" and "I"

https://forums.shoryuken.com/t/the-ultra-inevitable-street-fighter-v-story-thread/586509/2972

Jap: Rose: The master from the past… Now… Must be killed by these hands…

Glad you liked it. Although that translation isn't mine. A friend did it for me as a favor. She was the same who translated the "same soul" part above.

7 hours ago, N-Tactix said:

The Japanese version of MvSF even has differing victory quotes based on teams.

Yep! Vega have one with Spider-Man!

BTW do you know where I can find the jp winning quotes for MSHVSSF and Marvel VS Capcom? A site? A book/mook? I really would like to know how many WQ each character has and, if possible, how to obtain them.

ShockDingo · April 23, 2021

Oh, I saw this on my random travels on the internet, it's the Gamest Mook for 3rd strike in good quality! You can download in various formats like Pdf!

https://archive.org/details/Streeet_Fighter_III_Vol_194

Might be useful for anyone. Gotta ask, is the info covered in this the same as what's currently in the plot guide? As usual, was curious if Q's section had anything nifty hah.

Enjoy!

DarthEnderX · April 23, 2021

7 hours ago, Dragonfave723 said:

We still need a Season 6 so we can get Rolento, Viper and Elena.

N-Tactix · April 23, 2021

3 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

As usual, was curious if Q's section had anything nifty hah.

Q's section:

Spoiler

CAPCOM STAFF COMMENT:

When I was creating this character, I couldn't see what kind of character he would be, and his attacks and direction were quite difficult. In the end, thanks to the people I worked with, I think he became a good character with a good special taste. I'm very happy that he was quite popular. [Hiroki Shibaki]

At first, I was given the image of a simple and easy-to-understand character, focusing on powerful strikes and adjusting his techniques so that they emphasized the difference between his special move and the normal moves. However, by the time I made him, I felt that I had betrayed [the original concept] in a good manner and so he became a more technical and interesting character. The commitment of those who work on software is dazzling! What is his true identity? It's a "Mystery." Even I don't know... [Neo_G*)

*=Neo-G was the pseudonym Hidetoshi Ishikawa went by. He worked at Capcom up until the late 00's and had worked for SNK until he stepped down in 2019. He was responsible for coming up with combat systems and movesets for the games he worked on. In particular MVC2 and 3rd Strike.

Here's the screencap I have. This was just a quick first draft because I've got to get ready for something important soon. Maybe later in the day, I could get translations done of the other characters' staff comments.

https://files.catbox.moe/d2pqc1.jpg

(Is there any way to upload images directly from your device or do you need to use links, I can't seem to find anything that would just upload them directly from my phone unlike the old SRK.

6 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

BTW do you know where I can find the jp winning quotes for MSHVSSF and Marvel VS Capcom?

We discussed this before. I think MVC1 has the same number of quotes in both regions. I used the region swap feature in MAME for that game but MvSF lacks one. I'll try and search around for any source and maybe hunt down the Japanese ROM. Power Fighters is actually more interesting in Japanese considering how Dr. Light actually speaks to the player (it's nothing important, just "select your mission" etc) the characters even have 2 possible voice lines upon getting a weapon. It's where Megaman's victory speech in MVC1 comes from "In times of trouble, I will always protect the Earth!"

Edited April 23, 2021 by N-Tactix

Shakunetsu · April 23, 2021

4 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

We still need a Season 6 so we can get Rolento, Viper and Elena.

additional 2 seasons

Necro, Haggar and Thawk/Noembelu

So I can finally have this

Edited April 23, 2021 by Shakunetsu

SmackUpper · April 23, 2021

Has anyone seen the Official PlayStation blog story about Rose? Mostly it talks about her moves and confirms some of the deep cut references they used, but there's one interesting tidbit when they get to discussing her costumes.

“We had a concept of an adventurer or a person in training for this costume. Maybe it’s an outfit from a time when she was younger.”

The quotes in the article are from SFV Director Takayuki Nakayama himself. This does beg the question: Does Rose's purple hair color come from Soul Power mastery?

The whole blog post is pretty interesting

Lord_Vega · April 23, 2021

13 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

Oh, I saw this on my random travels on the internet, it's the Gamest Mook for 3rd strike in good quality! You can download in various formats like Pdf!

https://archive.org/details/Streeet_Fighter_III_Vol_194

Might be useful for anyone. Gotta ask, is the info covered in this the same as what's currently in the plot guide? As usual, was curious if Q's section had anything nifty hah.

That's awesome @ShockDingo! Thanks! There's also the Vol 185 for the 3rd Strike as well.

Nope, the actual version of the plot guide available online, concerning the 3rd Strike characters, have mostly translations of the All About Capcom/Street Fighter book and the Shadaloo CRI profiles.

11 hours ago, N-Tactix said:

Q's section:

Reveal hidden contents

CAPCOM STAFF COMMENT:

When I was creating this character, I couldn't see what kind of character he would be, and his attacks and direction were quite difficult. In the end, thanks to the people I worked with, I think he became a good character with a good special taste. I'm very happy that he was quite popular. [Hiroki Shibaki]

At first, I was given the image of a simple and easy-to-understand character, focusing on powerful strikes and adjusting his techniques so that they emphasized the difference between his special move and the normal moves. However, by the time I made him, I felt that I had betrayed [the original concept] in a good manner and so he became a more technical and interesting character. The commitment of those who work on software is dazzling! What is his true identity? It's a "Mystery." Even I don't know... [Neo_G*)

*=Neo-G was the pseudonym Hidetoshi Ishikawa went by. He worked at Capcom up until the late 00's and had worked for SNK until he stepped down in 2019. He was responsible for coming up with combat systems and movesets for the games he worked on. In particular MVC2 and 3rd Strike.

Here's the screencap I have. This was just a quick first draft because I've got to get ready for something important soon. Maybe later in the day, I could get translations done of the other characters' staff comments.

https://files.catbox.moe/d2pqc1.jpg

(Is there any way to upload images directly from your device or do you need to use links, I can't seem to find anything that would just upload them directly from my phone unlike the old SRK.

We discussed this before. I think MVC1 has the same number of quotes in both regions. I used the region swap feature in MAME for that game but MvSF lacks one. I'll try and search around for any source and maybe hunt down the Japanese ROM. Power Fighters is actually more interesting in Japanese considering how Dr. Light actually speaks to the player (it's nothing important, just "select your mission" etc) the characters even have 2 possible voice lines upon getting a weapon. It's where Megaman's victory speech in MVC1 comes from "In times of trouble, I will always protect the Earth!"

Thanks for the Q translation.

I remember discussing this with someone back in the old thread. Was it you? Sorry. Thanks for the input. I'm not totally sure, but it seems that the revision on some of those games, actually correct some bugs on the WQ of the chatacter. If I'm not mistaken, the international version of MVC1 actually has 10 WQ.

I don't think there's a way to ipload the images to the board like back in SRK. Only to link them. I'm also learnig how to use the reply funcion, it seems you ahve to check "Follow Topic" if you want to change the page. I didn't and lost everything. Ouch!

32 minutes ago, SmackUpper said:

“We had a concept of an adventurer or a person in training for this costume. Maybe it’s an outfit from a time when she was younger.”

The quotes in the article are from SFV Director Takayuki Nakayama himself. This does beg the question: Does Rose's purple hair color come from Soul Power mastery?

The whole blog post is pretty interesting

Yes. That was really interesting. Also her Nostalgia costume came from Dimitri's Midnight Bliss from Capcom Fighting Evolution.

mykka · April 23, 2021

DarthEnderX · April 24, 2021

So does anyone around these parts do the thing where they take the SF5 character artwork and remove the backgrounds?

I don't have backgroundless versions of Dan, Rose or Eleven.

Edited April 25, 2021 by DarthEnderX

N-Tactix · April 24, 2021

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2021/1/7/22214717/capcom-vs-snk-an-oral-history

Found this article. It mainly features commentary from key staff members of Capcom and SNK reminiscing on the CvS series. An interesting fact is that technically, CvS was already a thing in 1998, where the SNK staff had their own private build of KOF98 featuring Ryu and Ken and even Goku from Dragon Ball!

Lord_Vega · April 24, 2021

11 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

So does anyone around these parts do the thing where they take the SF5 character artwork and remove the backgrounds?

I don't have backgroundless versions of Dan or Rose...

Don't know of the other guys, but for me the 2 links you provided lead to a broken image page.

7 hours ago, N-Tactix said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2021/1/7/22214717/capcom-vs-snk-an-oral-history

Found this article. It mainly features commentary from key staff members of Capcom and SNK reminiscing on the CvS series. An interesting fact is that technically, CvS was already a thing in 1998, where the SNK staff had their own private build of KOF98 featuring Ryu and Ken and even Goku from Dragon Ball!

Awesome article. I wonder how far they went to put those characters in their "personal" build. Was it only a copy/paste work?

N-Tactix · April 24, 2021

14 minutes ago, Lord_Vega said:

Awesome article. I wonder how far they went to put those characters in their "personal" build. Was it only a copy/paste work?

Who knows? SNK has always planned ahead. Whip and her story arc during 1999-2001 was already written as far back as 1996 (though not all of the NESTS Chronicles were written by then), several characters like Vanessa, Foxy, Kusanagi, Rock and Kim's sons were already conceived as characters and the former 3 had spritesheets before they even debuted or had their games worked on.

They were probably just head swaps of Ryo. I wonder if that copy is still in good condition or even still in somebody's possession.

DarthEnderX · April 25, 2021

7 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

Don't know of the other guys, but for me the 2 links you provided lead to a broken image page.

Fixed(I think).

Daemos · April 26, 2021

On 4/23/2021 at 4:01 PM, SmackUpper said:

“We had a concept of an adventurer or a person in training for this costume. Maybe it’s an outfit from a time when she was younger.”

Younger as in the middle ages? How old is she pray tell? And was this her get up when she was Bison's STUDENT? The shin guards and shoulder pads could be a hint.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Daemos

N-Tactix · April 26, 2021

I just hope that Rose's outfit from when she was younger is just the fantasy element of SF, where ancient Greek pankration fighters can co-exist with genetic mutants and tech, doing its work and not "Rose and Bison have been around for a long time". Then again, considering how Bison can return from the dead and perform other bizarre supernatural feats, it's not unlikely.

Darc_Requiem · April 26, 2021

11 minutes ago, N-Tactix said:

I just hope that Rose's outfit from when she was younger is just the fantasy element of SF, where ancient Greek pankration fighters can co-exist with genetic mutants and tech, doing its work and not "Rose and Bison have been around for a long time". Then again, considering how Bison can return from the dead and perform other bizarre supernatural feats, it's not unlikely.

Bison is basically Captain Ginyu. All his body swapping diminished him as a villain in my eyes.

Shakunetsu · April 26, 2021

I don't think the hair should has relation to soul power and same with psycho power like having colored purple, not appreciate and has no sense to relate it, because most character associated with those hair color isn't related to soul power.

If soul power shouldn't be related to that because it should also be applied with the likes of psycho power, It's a poor choice because of Menat She isn't a master. Purple is also a poor choice of color to associate with mastery and soul power because the opposite psycho power is more related to purple and purple is more of a color of evil and corruption in SF universe.

I'm talking about purple as spiritual, ki and energies not a fashion sense. In fashion it's very much whatever it can be into.

However I'm always been okay with the other theories which I said in the past thread and other post about Satsu no hadou having associated with red hair because of Ryu in SF1 and Akuma because it makes sense and it has kinda consistency, Satsu no Hadou has no opposite counter part like Psycho Power and Soul Power. Then there's a contradiction with Necali which had red hair when transforming. So red hair isn't also something should became something like that either.

It's hair color kinda restrictive than being expressive because it cannot be implemented with consistency. So it's a poor design choice with tons of many contradiction already and kinda like dragon ball super saiyan thing.

Forcing it would bring more confusion and inconsistency

As for the knee pads, shoulder pads and etc pads it's too early to associate those to Bison, it's kinda broad unless it had a sign of shadaloo or something but it hadn't

Daemos · April 27, 2021

16 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Bison is basically Captain Ginyu. All his body swapping diminished him as a villain in my eyes.

On the contrary, a fighter hungry for being the greatest of all time, so much that neither fate or death itself can stand his way. True power!

Edited April 27, 2021 by Daemos

SmackUpper · April 27, 2021

I like the idea of Bison being Rose's master. It ties up nicely with her Alpha's World story that introduced her years ago. I hope they explain why neither of them seem to remember their time together. Like maybe that is an after-effect of Bison expelling the good out of his soul to better control Psycho Power.

On 4/26/2021 at 8:18 AM, Darc_Requiem said:

Bison is basically Captain Ginyu. All his body swapping diminished him as a villain in my eyes.

I don't mind it. It makes Bison seem like some kind of chess-master. Like he has contingencies for every possible situation.

Darc_Requiem · April 27, 2021

It makes him less impressive, less imposing, and diminishes his feats. I know it's been thrown out of canon but this makes the best example. Gouken had to improve his technique to survive the Shun Goku Satsu, Gen was so skilled he could block it. Bison just hops to another body. Two of those are impressive the other is just meh. Meanwhile Rose is out here teleporting without hax.

Skort · April 27, 2021

Speaking of Bison....

I watched Falke's and Ed's story modes again and man.....its messed up.

I mean,it's not something new but Shadaloo is up to some really nasty shit. Kidnapping children and raising them up so Bison can use their bodies when he needs to swap.

Take that all in for a moment. It's really messed up.

Shakunetsu · April 27, 2021

Phantom Bison did appeared in SFV cinematic mode

And probably his back already being Phantom Bison and Phantom Bison is canon so there is nothing to worry about

He doesn't need a physical form to fight. He can fight without it

N-Tactix · April 27, 2021

57 minutes ago, Skort said:

Take that all in for a moment. It's really messed up.

That's why M. Bison is still a very enticing and effective villain within the series regardless of the discrepancies surrounding him as a character and his position within the plot.

He uses fellow human beings like tools to be cast aside, engineers and kidnaps people with the intention of making them mere replacement bodies, has no qualms about using underhanded tactics and has committed mulitple heinous acts without a single thought.

All for the sake of being the strongest. That is in direct contrast to the other heroes of this series, mainly Ryu and Chun-Li: Ryu seeks to get stronger to improve himself as a person, Chun-Li uses her power to protect her family name and those who can't defend themselves. M Bison cheats and plays it easy instead of training the right proper way through honest work to grow strong. The fact he needs stronger bodies and replacements because his own bodies tend to not hold it in just goes to show how unnatural and disgusting this all really is.

Gill and G at least seem to have altruistic motives, even if their methods and aspects of their persona are evil. Seth is a missed opportunity and Akuma is similar to Bison but not as well handed by Capcom.

Edited April 27, 2021 by N-Tactix

Daemos · April 27, 2021

3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

It makes him less impressive, less imposing, and diminishes his feats. I know it's been thrown out of canon but this makes the best example. Gouken had to improve his technique to survive the Shun Goku Satsu, Gen was so skilled he could block it. Bison just hops to another body. Two of those are impressive the other is just meh. Meanwhile Rose is out here teleporting without hax.

Bison improves with each body hop as evidenced by his strength over the course of the series. Whether through science or technique or both, he does it. I suspect that now that he has seen the power that Ryu harbored all along, he will adapt and rise to meet his opponent with some new mastery of Psycho Power that can prevent or nullify MNK. Unlike other villains, there are no moral restraints to stop Bison from becoming the best fighter, and that is why he is THE BEST SF Villain!

Edited April 27, 2021 by Daemos

Shakunetsu · April 27, 2021

Just now, Daemos said:

Bison improves with each body hop as evidenced by his strength over the course of the series.

???

highly doubtful with that, can you elaborate on this?

If that is the case he doesn't even need a new body constructed then just hop and hop on

DarthEnderX · April 27, 2021

I still want a scene where his Ryu-clone body is finally complete, and he goes to possess it, but Kage jumps in at the same time. And they have a "battle inside the mind" for control of the body.

Darc_Requiem · April 27, 2021

2 hours ago, Daemos said:

Bison improves with each body hop as evidenced by his strength over the course of the series.

That isn't true. The Shadaloo scientist mentions to Bison that his new body can't handle all of his power, but Bison didn't want to wait. With retcons things get murky because his SF2 body was clearly weaker than his SFA body.

Daemos · April 27, 2021

2 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

???

highly doubtful with that, can you elaborate on this?

If that is the case he doesn't even need a new body constructed then just hop and hop on

His SF5 body can withstand the full extent of his power, and it is his most powerful form canonically (even though the game failed to show this in the final battle ala A3). This is why Bison isn't interested in possessing Ryu anymore in SF5 like he was years ago in A3. What he was interested in is understanding the power within Ryu that could rival his own and give him the "ultimate battle". In A3 and subsequently SF4, Bison discovered and took a keen interest in the power that was unlocked within Ryu and monitored his progress until SF5 when both were finally ready to fight. Bison went as far as expediting Ryu's awakening through Necalli just for this climactic event.

Progressively Bison has only gotten stronger from his first known appearance, and Nash even comments on this in SF5.

Daemos · April 27, 2021

2 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

That isn't true. The Shadaloo scientist mentions to Bison that his new body can't handle all of his power, but Bison didn't want to wait. With retcons things get murky because his SF2 body was clearly weaker than his SFA body.

That was SF4.

In SF5, enough time passed that Bison's SF5 form is peak.

There was no SF2 body arguably.

Bison had 2 bodies in the canon.

Original/First known - Alpha (Destroyed in SFA3/SF2)

Second Body - SF4/SF5 (Destroyed at the end of SF5)

You could make an argument that he had a third body that was incapacitated by his first encounter with Rose in Alpha, and this triggered the entire cloning program that lead to Cammy, the Dolls, etc. in SFA3/SF2/SF4.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Daemos

Shakunetsu · April 27, 2021

40 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

I still want a scene where his Ryu-clone body is finally complete, and he goes to possess it, but Kage jumps in at the same time. And they have a "battle inside the mind" for control of the body.

That's a nice too as a plan b with what I was thinking of Necali and Kage being merge.

Anything that can keep away another Evil Ryu in game and not making Ryu obsolete is a better thing.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Shakunetsu

YagamiFire · April 28, 2021

Necalli is a totally missed opportunity

He should have consumed Bison...and then Bison should have overpowered the Necalli-portion of the amalgamation and Bison would have been reborn in the new body. A body that can handle his power with no problem.

Darc_Requiem · April 28, 2021

6 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

Necalli is a totally missed opportunity

He should have consumed Bison...and then Bison should have overpowered the Necalli-portion of the amalgamation and Bison would have been reborn in the new body. A body that can handle his power with no problem.

Why do we always come up with better shit than Capcom?

N-Tactix · April 28, 2021

6 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

Necalli is a totally missed opportunity

I sometimes forgets he even exists. That's how badly Capcom missed the mark with him.

YagamiFire · April 28, 2021

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Why do we always come up with better shit than Capcom?

Right? It's ridiculous. Their storytelling is so...straight-up bad

Seriously, (and I say this as someone with a background in video game design) if they gave me an SF reboot to oversee I guarantee I could provide an aesthetic, story presentation and characters that would MAJORLY jolt the series to levels of MK9 as far as revitalization...or, at the very least, would be leagues beyond the half-assed attempts Capcom has made so far

I simply don't know what Capcom's problem is...

Edited April 28, 2021 by YagamiFire

N-Tactix · April 28, 2021

13 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

Seriously, (and I say this as someone with a background in video game design) if they gave me an SF reboot to oversee I guarantee I could provide an aesthetic, story presentation and characters that would MAJORLY jolt the series to levels of MK9 as far as revitalization.

It's borderline shameful that SF is still lagging behind in terms of story. DMC and Resi are able to deliver decent stories, even the Megaman series (except for the X series) has a decent story and that's not even getting into the masterpiece that are the Zero games.

And they don't have the excuse of limitations as a fighting game like they did back in the 90's/early 00's. A SF game with the level of care that Mortal Kombat and the Orochi-NESTS saga of KOF took with their story and dynamics would be LOVELY.

Edited April 28, 2021 by N-Tactix