The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

[Darc_Requiem]

 

[Shakunetsu]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

 

 

• Rose's character design is actually related to the Alpha series story. She is part of a time loop where she has gone back in time to try to thwart the ambitions of M. Bison.
• Rose's standing heavy kick and EX Soul Bind are designed to indicate her connection with M. Bison.

 

 

highlighted online by others

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[Lord_Vega]

 .

20 hours ago, Daemos said:

Original/First known - Alpha (Destroyed in SFA3/SF2)

Second Body - SF4/SF5 (Destroyed at the end of SF5

Three bodies:

 

Zero - destroyed at the time when the Psycho Drive was destroyed in Z3;

 

SF2 - destroyed by Gouki (as shown in the SF5 SF2 ladder;)

 

SF5 - destroyed by Ryu's Mu No Ken.

 

You still try to sneak a merge between the events of SFZ3 and SF2 even though Capcom NEVER gave us a slight hint that it happened.... And it never will. Not only that, Capcom already gave enough proof that SFZ3 and SF2 are 2 diferent events separated by 3 years.

 

20 hours ago, Daemos said:

You could make an argument that he had a third body that was incapacitated by his first encounter with Rose in Alpha, and this triggered the entire cloning program that lead to Cammy, the Dolls, etc. in SFA3/SF2/SF4.

 

Er, nope. Cammy was already serving Vega during the events of SFZ2. In fact she, and possibly Decapre, were around for 16 years or so before Z2 and Z3.... that's why she's the only of the clones that was given an age/year of birth so far.

 

During, or possibly right after SFZ3, the "Living Incubator" program started (5 years prior SF4), giving birth to Falke, the 28 Abels (Abel himself and the 27 Seths), and, possibly Doll Unit 0 (AKA She-Seth) . It's possible that Ed was kidnapped at a very young age and experienced on at that time as well (Vega's soul was inside/controlling Rose at the time).

 

 

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

 

0:35 "... and she shares a soul with the villanous M. BIson."

 

I wonder if there's a japanese version of this video as well. If the jap video mentions the same thing...

 

Case closed.

 

31 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

• Rose's character design is actually related to the Alpha series story. She is part of a time loop where she has gone back in time to try to thwart the ambitions of M. Bison.

That might be the case, however, that's not what was presented in her Story. I wonder if we'll see more of her in the next 3 story modes?

[Shakunetsu]

 

 

The Japanese individual story

 

According to some the other the threat in her individual story mode is specifying it is Bison himself because the events are already set in motion

 

So her only choice is the need to stop him by by reminding her past self 

 

I don't know how accurate they are but that's what I heard

 

[Darc_Requiem]

6 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

I think SF can use a DoA Dimensions style game to clean up some of the story.

 I was hoping they'd do a DoA Dimensions 2 for Switch. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Darc_Requiem

[YagamiFire]

So is this just confirmation that they're straight-up pulling an MK9 Raiden with Rose?

Or...do all of Rose's flashes from the future we've ALREADY SEEN come from Rose herself in the future? More stellar confusing storytelling...

[Daemos]

15 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

Zero - destroyed at the time when the Psycho Drive was destroyed in Z3;

 

SF2 - destroyed by Gouki (as shown in the SF5 SF2 ladder;)

 

THAT SF2 ENDING NEVER HAPPENED. EVER. RETCOOOOOOONZZZZZZ

[Daemos]

17 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

0:35 "... and she shares a soul with the villanous M. BIson."

 

I wonder if there's a japanese version of this video as well. If the jap video mentions the same thing...

 

Case closed.

Yeah no.

Most recent game canon > everything else, especially if the latter contradicts the former. Unless the game explicitly mentions this, it will never be canon. Just like G is NOT the final boss of SF5.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Daemos

[N-Tactix]

The whole idea that Alpha overrode SF2 will never make sense to me because of Cammy's story. How do the events of Alpha 3 happen and yet she quickly managed to become a Delta Red Agent and tracked down Bison? Unless it's a Guile situation where the events of A2 and A3 that went through Charlie's death were combined to Guile searching for Charlie = Alpha 2 Charlie ending

[Sonero]

17 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

So her only choice is the need to stop him by by reminding her past self 

 

Did she forget she needed to kill Bison while she was trying to kill Bison?

 

🧐

[Daemos]

27 minutes ago, N-Tactix said:

The whole idea that Alpha overrode SF2 will never make sense to me because of Cammy's story. How do the events of Alpha 3 happen and yet she quickly managed to become a Delta Red Agent and tracked down Bison? Unless it's a Guile situation where the events of A2 and A3 that went through Charlie's death were combined to Guile searching for Charlie = Alpha 2 Charlie ending

All the events of SF2/A3 took place over a period of time. SF3 took place over 2 years. SF4 took place over 18 months. SF5 also took place over 1-2 years.

Cammy could've been Killer Bee at the start of A3/SF2 and became Delta Red towards the end just in time for the final battle portrayed in the Viper Aftermath OVA.

[Sonero]

One important note about possibly going back to the Alpha series:

 

It means that Guy can finally use his ninja magic to seal Bison. After that happens, Deamos can stop being PsychoSexual, change his avatar and start wearing comfortable running shoes. As Guy's victory would seal the deal on Bomb Ass Sneakers > Psycho Power.

 

So lets hope that Rose is successful with her retcon.

[N-Tactix]

52 minutes ago, Sonero said:

It means that Guy can finally use his ninja magic to seal Bison. After that happens, Deamos can stop being PsychoSexual, change his avatar and start wearing comfortable running shoes. As Guy's victory would seal the deal on Bomb Ass Sneakers > Psycho Power.

You forgot the best part: Rose thinks she's finally going to get with Guy only to find out about his fiancee from Final Fight 2. Her next arc is to use her divination powers to split Guy and Rena up, failing harder and harder with every plot.

Edited April 29, 2021 by N-Tactix

[Hawkingbird]

I don't need Rose to be in the SF version of the Butterfly Effect.

[Shakunetsu]

 

 

Whatever Rose is gonna do in the past probably would set all of SF3 timeline

• So Nash probably didn't die, Or Nash did died and destroyed Bison with the help of Rose, Guile and Guy based on Alpha 3 ending instead of Alpha 2 ending
• Or Rose died too with Nash, So Guy..
• No Ed, Falke and etc Neo Shadaloo exist then No Seth, No Abel and No Juri
• No Decapre being mad at Cammy
• Juri became an ordinary Taekwondo fighter
• No S.I.N.
• There is no brainwashed Ryu or Ken by Bison like in SF2, SFA2 and SFA3
• Haggar was a Street fighter Champion
• Sagat retired early in competing after meeting Dan because he pitied him
• Sagat didn't have get a scar on Ryu? So Sagat has no connection or care with Ryu
• Akuma never had Sunflower hair
• "G" events never happen, So "Q" became a mystery and has no lead and cannot be link to anything, because "G" as a very famous influencer and fighter with tons of followers never ever did happened 
• Necali never happened
• The Black Moons never happened
• Gouken never comesback or never revealed himself sooner to be still alive
• Ibuki remain with her moveset LOL
• Fang never became a Shadaloo Officer but still remain an Assasin
• Vega and Balrog have retired and never been called by a Shadaloo personel during SF4 Aftermath (Viper)
• Or Sagat, Vega and Balrog never met Bison and became part of Shadaloo, but they still remain as fighters.
• Nguuhao isn't destroyed by Bison
• Secret Society becomes more lowkey doesn't need to revived anymore Nash to kill Bison 
• Karin stays a millionaire and never fought Sakura 
• Sakura never met Ryu, So she never been a fighter or compete in a Fighter Tournament in the future
• Then all of a sudden Ryu and Chun li suddenly became lovers because it's a trendy marketing reason nowadays LOL
• Remy mysterious backstory happens
• Li-Fen is still a bright little Chinese girl but there won't be any Shadaloo involvement this time. Her age in SF3 is like her age in SFV cinematic mode. So probably SF3 timeline was supposed to be set in SFV timeline? While Sean is turned to be the only kid in SFV a shadow falls unlike Yun, Yang, Elena, Ibuki and Makoto which appeared in SF4 timeline are teens and adults.

 

If we know where on the exact spot on Alpha did Rose manage to stop Bison a major event wouldn't be occurring like the SIN event or the rest of SF2.

 

 

6 hours ago, Sonero said:

Did she forget she needed to kill Bison while she was trying to kill Bison?

 

She needs to do it more earlier lol

 

Maybe when they are still allies 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[Sonero]

Alpha Pre-Zero?

 

Young Zeku, Retsu, Dan's Father etc? Not gonna lie that's be kinda sick. Sagat's tiger shots are gonna be hella crazy with two eyeballs.

[Shakunetsu]

 

I hope Capcom ain't going to pull a Predestination thing because of SOUL being one

Where Bison is some kind of Fizzle Bomber, Where Rose did a sex change and her being originally Bison after all because of sharing the same soul LOL

She hated that Guy having a fiancé already.

So she tried to master psycho power, So that at least Guy would come after her and chase her instead, but her hate is too strong. So She wants herself to fight him instead then she purposely puts amnesia spell to on herself to not hold back in their encounter and turned herself into a male, So that Guy wouldn't show care and wouldn't recognize her.

Not realizing she would became Bison this explains Bison in SF2 being slimmer body LOL

Then her as SF2 Bison she had a strange premonition that being killed by Akuma quickly

So her having fearing her soon to be death

She as SF2 Bison(Rose) would instead travel back in time using shadaloo tech combine with her powers to become Alpha Bison.

Shadaloo Tech combined with her new power Soul Translocation

Then she tried to kidnap teen girls to in an attempt them later swap with her current body to escape her premonition fate of death

But she failed and her soul power cannot infused her soul to those teen girls that would soon be turned in Shadaloo Dolls

 

Then she became the actual Alpha Bison.

She attempted to nab's Ryu's Body to sustain his new found corrupted Soul power, Which is now known as Psycho Power because she thought it might work with SNH together.

She thought having Ryu Body with SNH could outmatch Akuma as her last resort and contingency plan to prevent her death premonition death as SF2 Bison in SF2 timeline

But

Then came Ingrid to save the day to remove any error in the timeline so SF2 Bison never happened

 

Rose not meeting Guy because Ingrid destroyed Alpha Bison alone

 

LOL

 

 

So Rose never became SF2 Bison at all

And it's just Ryu story from SF1 to SF3 settings

This sharing of soul is confusing and weird

  

No Sakura wanting to compete in tournaments and etc

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Sonero said:

Alpha Pre-Zero?

 

Young Zeku, Retsu, Dan's Father etc? Not gonna lie that's be kinda sick. Sagat's tiger shots are gonna be hella crazy with two eyeballs.

Maybe that was said by some 

 

What I am thinking is she would end shadaloo for good in the point where shadaloo and bison are probably more vulnerable

Edited April 29, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[N-Tactix]

3 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

No Sakura wanting to compete in tournaments

Lol, imagine Rose's antics to stop Bison end completely changing everything in the future for the possible worst. 

[Shakunetsu]

12 minutes ago, N-Tactix said:

Lol, imagine Rose's antics to stop Bison end completely changing everything in the future for the possible worst. 

It's likely undo the whole SF4 and SF5 for sure because that's a whole Shadaloo expansion just to setup for SF3

 

I really wonder where everything is heading it's like or where the spot will Rose change the timeline 

 

G being so popular and big in SFV as a famous influencer and fighter with tons of followers not in SF3 is a mystery. 

 

G is the contrast of Q 

 

I'm still hoping the guy in background is turned into Q

 

 

So the connection and lead of Q being G kinda change of Q already existing even G is already famous

Edited April 29, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[Daemos]

Rose says that Fate is a fixed line. Unless Rose's "fate" is to be part of a time loop, she is dabbling into the realm of Psycho Power by trying to change that which is inevitable. Whatever the case, Bison is already several steps ahead of her as usual. I'd wager that if Rose indulges this time loop, that it is a deception he is pulling on her ass to ensure his plan succeeds next time around. Not that he needs her at all to return to the physical plane this time but she fell for it before...




 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Daemos

[Daemos]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:16 PM, Shakunetsu said:

According to some the other the threat in her individual story mode is specifying it is Bison himself because the events are already set in motion

Bison knew everything. That's why he was so chill throughout the game. Calm, and confident in his foresight. He 'died' laughing on his feet for a reason.

[Sonero]

56 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Rose says that Fate is a fixed line. Unless Rose's "fate" is to be part of a time loop, she is dabbling into the realm of Psycho Power by trying to change that which is inevitable. Whatever the case, Bison is already several steps ahead of her as usual. I'd wager that if Rose indulges this time loop, that it is a deception he is pulling on her ass to ensure his plan succeeds next time around.

 

Honestly this reads like the crappiest storyline ever. Villains being so awesome that they're 1239402198374029374 steps ahead of everybody is lazy writing.

[Daemos]

50 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Honestly this reads like the crappiest storyline ever. Villains being so awesome that they're 1239402198374029374 steps ahead of everybody is lazy writing.

SF's storyline is lazy af. So it's probably true.

[N-Tactix]

17 hours ago, Daemos said:

SF's storyline is lazy af.

When you take a step back and think of it, most of the SF characters have had their arcs and storyline repeated to some tiny extent several times across Alpha-SFV. 

 

I don't think anybody here wants a massive overhaul of the characters but having them finally moving on from their current motivations and storyline has been overdue for a LONG time. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by N-Tactix

[ShockDingo]

@Lord_Vega@bakfromonDo you guys happen to know where the Richard Burgman blurb about Q comes from and also if there's a full translation? I recall seeing one from ages ago, but can't remember who did it and if it was accurate or not. I'm hoping to grab a scan and translation for my usual vids and such and it'd be helpful if anyone could help me out.

[misterBee]

58 minutes ago, N-Tactix said:

When you take a step back and think of it, most of the SF characters have had their arcs and storyline repeated to some tiny extent several times across Alpha-SFV. 

 

I don't think anybody here wants a massive overhaul of the characters but having them finally moving on from their current motivations and storyline has been overdue for a LONG time. 

This will never happen because SF chars are all cardboard cutouts with almost 0 personality.  Without rehashing the same motivations/backgrounds they've been using for 30 years they might as well not exist.

 

SF6 is either gonna be a reboot of SF2, squeeze itself in between one of the Alpha games, or be something equally ridiculous.  They'll do anything to maintain the status quo and avoid doing anything to change the characters in a meaningful way.

 

If any of the precious SF chars change too much the 'fans' will roast them alive.  There's too much nostalgia and too many old people to allow the series to change in that way.

[Sonero]

8 minutes ago, misterBee said:

SF6 is either gonna be a reboot of SF2, squeeze itself in between one of the Alpha games, or be something equally ridiculous.  They'll do anything to maintain the status quo and avoid doing anything to change the characters in a meaningful way.

 

That's why we're all ranting and raving about Paul Phoenix's maturity arc in Tekken.

 

Calm down, fella, all FG story is kinda wack.

[Shakunetsu]

 

I remember when many would say FGs like MK, GGX and Blazblue can do did a storytelling like a blockbuster, So SF could do the same because they are FGs too.

 

I have been saying this in previous threads in SRK, 

 

Here's why SF can't have a story telling like MK or something like GGX, Blazblue and etc.

 

It is because MK manage to do those always because they had a "Reset" button built in the story

 

This are the likes of "Time Travel"  which are essential to their STORY TELLING, along with "Parallel dimension" and "Alternate timeline" for example Cyber Subzero story but those ain't comparable to what Rose can possibly do, repeat and change. Those things are RECURING plot devices imagine those in SF.

 

Injustice or Dragon Ball have also access to rejuvenating like plot devices like of "Lazarus Pit" or a "ShenRon"  which SF didn't have as essential or recurring themes.

 

Secret Society and Shadaloo did prove to they can have a "Lazarus Pit" but it's not something that function like that in the narrative, because those are exclusive to specific characters likes of Bison has a Psycho Drive and Gill has also a Resurrection through gene manipulation.  Nash is turned in a Frankenstein so it's not an actual equivalent because it's not having the same results of "that looks shiny and brand new" like before .

 

This is why those games can do more risky story telling that SF will never able to pull off "constantly" every new game.  Rose can be a tool but imagine it being a recurring theme in every new game.

 

So SF stories should be just like GI Joe Cartoons or the likes of 90s Xmen animated series that is simple and flexible way. Not something like expecting blockbuster hit or aiming for plot twist but something easy for any future sequels because SF is always ever expanding franchise.

 

Now we are in the point were SF is dwelling to a possibly dwelling to those themes and it's already frowned upon, The question is will it be recurring motif in future games. 

 

They could do still a compelling but the story should always be low at stake, like Juri SF4 OVA.  Time skip is always been proven to be terrible for fighting games unless it's just a somekind of trilogy and no plans of having future sequels.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[misterBee]

9 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

That's why we're all ranting and raving about Paul Phoenix's maturity arc in Tekken.

 

Calm down, fella, all FG story is kinda wack.

Tekken story isn't winning any awards either, but even they advance the 'plot' more than SF has.  Kazuya getting thrown into a volcano was pretty tight, and now he's a devil zombie man.  Things happen and there is continuity, no matter how ridiculous it is.  When's the last time anything interesting EVER happened to Ryu in SF?  Whereas most games at least try to make things happen in the story, SF just vaguely hints at past events without ever addressing them, and then maintains the status quo with every new game.

 

Jin Kazama has a story and character arc.  Ryu has been doing basically nothing for 30 years.  The most plot development he's ever gotten have been from offshoot anime/OVAs that aren't even canon.

 

Even by low FG standards SF is definitely bottom of the barrel.

 

NRS still top of the game in terms of FG story.   They might not win Oscars but I'm willing to watch them for multiple hours on Youtube.  Injustice was pretty great and I'm a fan of the modern MK stories too.

 

SF doesn't need to do crazy time travel shenanigans or anything to 'reset' things.  It just needs to actually HAVE a plot.  So far the plot of SF since 1992 is that there is a bad guy...and there are good guys...and...that's it.  That's about as far as the plot as ever gotten.  Every new game they just swap out the 'bad guy' for a new one and call it a day.

[SmackUpper]

I would say MK can do risky storytelling because they've always done it. Even back in the 90s  they were killing off and replacing major characters left and right.  Every major MK character (especially those from MK1)  has been killed off at least once. By this point MK fans are use to the storytelling nonsense. It doesn't matter because it's probably getting retconned in the next game,anyway.  All the shenanigans they bring in are just an excuse to use those characters again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shakunetsu]

3 hours ago, misterBee said:

SF doesn't need to do crazy time travel shenanigans or anything to 'reset' things.  It just needs to actually HAVE a plot.  So far the plot of SF since 1992 is that there is a bad guy...and there are good guys...and...that's it.  That's about as far as the plot as ever gotten.  Every new game they just swap out the 'bad guy' for a new one and call it a day.

Agree but NRS has no restriction and limitation like SF, So SF cannot be as good like NRS stories because time travel, alternate timeline and resets are essential and integral part of their story telling

 

Without those things NRS story cannot work with the same limitation and restriction like SF. NRS stories is about grand scale and higher stake that they could easily retract and undone everything they did.

Yet there are few good story in SF good but without high stakes involved, good stories are coherence and not complicated but has depth and exploration like JURI OVA in SF4 it was better written than SF2 AM and etc SF animes.

 

3 hours ago, misterBee said:

Tekken story isn't winning any awards either, but even they advance the 'plot' more than SF has.  Kazuya getting thrown into a volcano was pretty tight, and now he's a devil zombie man.  Things happen and there is continuity, no matter how ridiculous it is.  When's the last time anything interesting EVER happened to Ryu in SF?  Whereas most games at least try to make things happen in the story, SF just vaguely hints at past events without ever addressing them, and then maintains the status quo with every new game.

 

Tekken is notorious on having the worst bosses either from the long dead being return or an ancient being from the grave which was "previously unknown to anyone to anyone that this greater power do exist" It's like they suddenly pop up out of nowhere. Like Azazel and Ogre. The first equivalent of SF is Necali.

 

Tekken have revived dead people from the past like Jinpachi, Devil Kazuya and later Kasumi because they have some sort of "Lazarus Pit" equivalent like the Gene and Mishima blood, Satsu no Hadou didn't have that qualities.

 

Having a great great ancestor or his wife being raise from the dead then be a final boss in SF or be a central plot of the story would be frown upon too.

 

Many are already would be raising eyebrows if Goutetsu, Go Hibiki and other ancestor like father of Akuma and Gouken or etc is bring back to life and became the grand villain or a new center of the plot. Gouken's return is still unclear but the thing is he wasn't made as the grand villain compare to what Tekken does.

 

That works perfect with the settings like Soul Calibur and Samsho but not something set in 20th or 21st century settings.

 

Tekken isn't the best example of Fighting Game stories

 

3 hours ago, misterBee said:

Jin Kazama has a story and character arc.  Ryu has been doing basically nothing for 30 years.  The most plot development he's ever gotten have been from offshoot anime/OVAs that aren't even canon.

 

To be fair Ryu already made leaps, accomplishment and changes in SFA and SFV but it's not deliberate shown in his special moves in SF for usability reasons, but it does shows in Mahvel series like Hadou Kakusei. 

 

There is nothing happening in SF2 because it has doubtful  and questionable canonity the only valid story to consider in SF2 timeline is the SF4 Viper aftermath which explains how Bison has died.

 

Ryu is stagnant in SF3 because he isn't the protagonist in those story. 

 

SF4 plot is more centered on Seth and SIN not Shadaloo and it's not about Ryu vs Shadaloo or centered to Ryu vs Sin. It's not a Ryu story. It's about the rise of a new organization and the return of shadaloo.

 

SFV is another Ryu story and he made progress there.

 

SFA3 is more of Guile, Chunli and Nash story against Bison and Shadaloo. This is why most of the A3 ending shows Chun li and Nash. Ryu was more personal and the first time he would be facing the killer of his mentor named Akuma.  

 

Ryu's goal isn't the same as Jin, Ryu can't be a zaibatsu leader or shouldn't be but he would need to be the character that overcome struggles and  beat enemies that tries to conquer him that's how his character is designed rather than forcing him to elevate and change in to something powerful or rich

 

Example of force is Ryu in MVCi like someone talking about scientific and space exploration stuff.

 

Ryu is more of a mascot compare to Jin and Ryu is designed to be just a go to character to learn the ropes of new mechanics and dynamics for every new SF game compare to the likes of Jin.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[YagamiFire]

5 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

It is because MK manage to do those always because they had a "Reset" button built in the story

What are you talking about?

 

MK pulled Raiden time-travel out of their ass...in the EXACT same way Rose could do the same thing

 

Also Tekken and MK have ALWAYS taken more chances than Street Fighter especially ever since Capcom back-pedal'd so hard from SFIII acting as if it was the roster that was entirely at fault for that game's reception and not, y'know, the dying of the arcade scene at the time...

 

The next game should be (and I'm predicting) "STREET FIGHTER"

 

That's it. No number. No nothing.

 

Reboot the series. I'm ready. The 'canon' has become (#alwayswas) a complete spaghetti-mess and Capcom needs to nut up and put together something coherent and at least SOMEWHAT serious. We need an aesthetic closer to SFII/III/Alpha. There's a VERY happy medium in there called STREET FIGHTER II THE ANIMATED MOVIE. They need to adapt that general aesthetic. It's fine to be typical 3d...doesn't need to be DBFZ or GG style...but they need to jettison about 80% of the goofy garbage they have going on right now and dial down the saturation and steroids.

[Sonero]

4 hours ago, misterBee said:

NRS still top of the game in terms of FG story. 

 

NRS is stop in terms of story presentation, not actual plot.

 

SF5 story makes way more sense than any of the nonsense in MK11. Only reason time travel happened in MK in the first place was due to how Boon basically murdered the MK story through the PS2 era.

 

Hell the worst SF has done to a character is make them fat.  MK fans still mad about NRS retconning anything worthwhile out of Sindel.

 

The Tekken story has been about a family of sociopaths ruining the planet with civil to world wars and then randomly throwing a tournament in the middle of it because YOLO.  Then everybody picks sides and acts serious. How the whole of the Tekken cast hasn't murdered the Mishima bloodline by T5 is a bigger plot contrivance than Bison finding new bodies at Goodwill.

 

@YagamiFire in fairness to SF3, we already know that game wasn't supposed to be a Street Fighter game in the first place. In 97,  bunch of dudes made a game, shoehorned Ryu into it and basically ruined the SF storyline in the process. "SF3" was a mistake in various ways.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Sonero

[N-Tactix]

2 hours ago, Sonero said:

In 97,  bunch of dudes made a game, shoehorned Ryu into it and basically ruined the SF storyline in the process. "SF3" was a mistake in various ways.

I wonder what they would have marketed the game as. Because as it stands, most of the SF3 characters would easily fit in the Alpha/SF2 vibe. Assuming that New Generation was always the same before they plonked Ryu+Ken into it, how would it have distinguished itself? Darkstalkers, Cyberbots, Red Earth and Star Gladiator all have a distinct theme and motif. The SF3 roster without Ryu+Ken just seem like Street Fighter characters with a more contemporary vibe. 

 

SF3 NG probably would have been slightly better selling had they took some more time to refine the mechanics and add more SF veterans back in. But the sprites were extremely detailed and the CPS3 was notoriously hard to program for. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by N-Tactix

[Shakunetsu]

I'm not into following Injustice story, but I knew there are tons of workarounds for DC universe for different versions of "Reset button"  that will never be questionable because it's already essential and establish to their narrative.

 

They could do alternative dimension and parallel dimension of characters with no problem because it's already had decent backstory because it's already either in the cartoons, comics or movies not something to introducing a new complicated narrative devices.

 

Dragon Ball universe already had Dragon Ball it work around with reset button that would restore everything and undo everytime

 

Later in 

Dragon Ball Z introduced Trunks as the concept in DB universe 

 

 

Which increase the ante, Time manipulation is not something a Shenron can do.

 

IN DBS they introduced deities and heavenly beings to reset things up

 

 

 

MK NOW also UPPED their potential of reset things recently by gently introducing beings that makes alternate timeline and change things 

 

 

Imagine Ryu being some kind of Fire God Lui Kang that would guide young Goutetsu, young Go hibiki, young Sagat or even young Bison 

 

Okay SF already has a Kronika equivalent that many dislike and frowned upon

 

Her:

 

 

 

It doesn't matter if we got a new character that have those kinda Kronika potential story telling but it's not something very integrated yet in SF as of now while it's very natural to the likes of MK in the start

 

SNK started with the scrolls to revive Geese to be "good as new" 

 

 

Then also UPPED things recently by gently introducing some narrative that is similar that would revived things but it's something can't be done over and over

 

 

Which cause this

 

 

In MK it's not because they are just carelessly killing of Major Characters in the 90s 

 

The true reason why it work is...

 

Ever since the "beginning" MK ONE was already "largely all about oriental mysticism" compare that to a group of martial artist that assemble to prove to themselves to be the better or what to take revenge from megalomaniac martial artist and terrorist martial artist.

 

It is written from the ground up to work like that. MK had already definite lore than SF2 to be fair in the 90s. So those machination is something is never to doubt in MK.

 

Even it's live action movie already knows where it's heading and it's fully establish compare that to SF2 AM and SF live action or even SF2V anime include as well the SF cartoons. Even in literary works MK is ahead  and constructed compare to SF2 lore. It was SFA that change the whole SF narrative.

 

MK ONE is about other conquerors and invader from a different Realm, it's already very super natural and time travel is not something weird to happen because the NINJAs is from EARTH REALM and isn't a perfect fit to the present time of Jhonny Cage, Sonya Blade and Jax. 

 

This is why MK Conquest sets it's timeline to the Great Kung Lao not in modern day with Jhonny Cage because it would look seamless having those Ninjas being fought without GUNS.

 

In MK One we can start with Scorpion that is a fighting DEADMAN

 

 

Then we got Shang Tsung, Raiden, Goro and Nether Realms. So "Reset like narrative" is not something hard to introduced. 

 

While SF1 eh just martial artist? then compare MK1 to the likes of SF2, SF2 got Blanka(maybe a mutant) and Dhalsim(Some hermit street performers or  like those in indian circus performer). This is before SFA and Teleport is introduced not in WW and CE but in Turbo

 

Bison being turned crazy SUPERNATURAL was in SF Alpha not SF2.

 

This is why it's like a puzzle of thoughts when Rose is hinting a time travel and Gouken returning back.

 

 and that wouldn't be case in the likes of MK because it was in established from the ground up not by just killing cast early on.

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[BootyWarrior]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:05 PM, N-Tactix said:

Lol, imagine Rose's antics to stop Bison end completely changing everything in the future for the possible worst. 

If Capcom does a reboot, they need to abolish the timeline altogether. Too many characters are tied down by age and certain events happening at certain times which would result in limited movelists.

 

They need to go full KOF where characters ages are shuffled and everyone has their tools. I'm down with anything so long as there's no M. Bison/Shadoloo as the main villain and also the Satsui no Hadou not being mentioned at all. Delete that s*** along with Oni, Evil Ryu & Kage.

Edited May 1, 2021 by BootyWarrior

[DarthEnderX]

33 minutes ago, BootyWarrior said:

If Capcom does a reboot, they need to abolish the timeline altogether. Too many characters are tied down by age and certain events happening at certain times which would result in limited movelists.

Might as well.  If you're gonna reset any of it, might as well ditch the shit that doesn't work.

[Shakunetsu]

23 minutes ago, BootyWarrior said:

Too many characters are tied down by age

 

And they messed UP with Sean

 

 

Compare that to what they did with Elena, Ibuki, Makoto, Yun and Yang in SF4.

 

Terrible decision of Capcom for Sean's character direction that they literally separate him.

 

[ShockDingo]

On 4/29/2021 at 5:27 PM, Shakunetsu said:

I'm still hoping the guy in background is turned into Q

Wayne Nakamura's bio in the CRI reports pretty much has seemingly made this rumour canon. It states he saw the Trench Coat man in an American port years ago.  Unlike a lot of people, I absolutely don't think Q is G, just one of his "children."

[N-Tactix]

37 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

Unlike a lot of people, I absolutely don't think Q is G, just one of his "children."

When I was younger and first heard of Q via the Internet. I used to theorise that he was Vega after seeing his CVS2 ending where he ponders on leaving his "mortal shell" to achieve permanent beauty while everybody else though Q was Chun-Li's father or something. That on top of the snake aura Vega emitted in one of victory animations. 

 

 

@ShakunetsuIrrelevant to your main points but Geese didn't survive the first fall because of the scrolls, he didn't even have them in possession yet. He used a rough version of his double reppuken to cushion his fall and was left injured. He did use the 2 scrolls he had to make it out the burning building in FF3 before he sealed all 3 of them away so they wouldn't be misused, only reading them again when he seeked info on Verse. 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by N-Tactix

[YagamiFire]

And yes I will second (or clarify for myself?) that MK's plots have been an ACTUAL disaster. The writing is absolutely atrocious and full of self-contradiction, a total lack of consistency in rules THEY establish, and flat-out incoherent along with total undermining of their own stakes

 

It's dreadful

 

Which is a shame because, before MK9, MK's story was actually the best for fighting games BY FAR

[GreatDarkHero]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:58 AM, Hawkingbird said:

I think SF can use a DoA Dimensions style game to clean up some of the story.

"What the-" 

 

Spoiler

 

Urien: "FOOL!!!!!! IT IS I WHO WILL CLEAN UP THIS WRETCHED STORY!! ... Look at me. LOOK. AT. ME. I am your lord and your god and your ruler! KNEEL BEFORE ME WHEN IN MY PRESENCE!!!! AEGIS REFLECTOR!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!" 

Jokes aside, I am thrilled that Rose has finally made a return (I even did a video on this subject as way of expressing such happiness. 

 

And, I got a nice image of Rose taking a bath out of the deal. Unfortunately, I am not that big of a fan of the Capcom teasing a potential MK9-styled reboot. But, we don't know if that is *really* the case. Only time will tell. 

 

The character known as G really seems to throw a monkey wrench into a lot of situations. And, isn't he supposed to be a boss character at a certain point? 

[Darc_Requiem]

29 minutes ago, GreatDarkHero said:

"What the-" 

I take it you don't know what DoA Dimensions is. It was the Dead or Alive game for 3DS.  Instead of just porting Dead or Alive 4. Tecmo went the extra mile and created a version of DoA4 that featured a single player story mode that covered the entire narrative of the series up to that point. They even went so far as to add characters to the game that weren't playable before. Shiden (Kasumi and Hayate's father) and Genra the Dead or Alive 3 boss but in a playable from. It had voice acting as well. It was beyond impressive at the time and is till impressive to day IMO.

 

Side note: The game ran at 60fps

[Sonero]

6 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Might as well.  If you're gonna reset any of it, might as well ditch the shit that doesn't work.

you know what doesn't work? Killing characters.

 

Stop using wack stories to get rid of mechanically unique elements in a game.

 

😤

[GreatDarkHero]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I take it you don't know what DoA Dimensions is. It was the Dead or Alive game for 3DS.  Instead of just porting Dead or Alive 4. Tecmo went the extra mile and created a version of DoA4 that featured a single player story mode that covered the entire narrative of the series up to that point. They even went so far as to add characters to the game that weren't playable before. Shiden (Kasumi and Hayate's father) and Genra the Dead or Alive 3 boss but in a playable from. It had voice acting as well. It was beyond impressive at the time and is till impressive to day IMO.

 

Side note: The game ran at 60fps

@Darc_RequiemI... have the game. 

 

I was actually setting up a role play for Urien. I have a love-hate relationship with DOA, due to a few narrative choices made specifically towards the protagonist and Ryu's cock-blocking tendencies. 

 

(In the original game for example, Kasumi just plain killed Raidou without Ryu interfering with anything). 

Edited May 2, 2021 by GreatDarkHero

[DarthEnderX]

2 hours ago, Sonero said:

you know what doesn't work? Killing characters.

 

Stop using wack stories to get rid of mechanically unique elements in a game.

Who was talking about killing characters?

[Shakunetsu]

1 hour ago, DarthEnderX said:

Who was talking about killing characters?

That's was just a good addition to ditching the age limitation in stories

 

Because killing a character to make an appealing story for the likes of SF isn't worth it because it affects the consistency in the future if that character will soon re-appear and killed again or to be repeated over and over, It's cause more detrimental not just to the story and future instalments of the game but also to gameplay elements and possibilities, So it's short time appeal and attention in the FG story isn't worth it.

 

It only raise curiosity but it doesn't make really make the FG story appealing especially if death isn't even taken seriously in the previous canon titles of that FG because that show it cannot be consistent and expected to be temporary, So it entirely loses it's intended meaning in the story and shock value to it's audience. 

 

Unless they have established something in the narrative like the DC Comics "Lazarus Pit" or a magical "Dragon Balls" but SF doesn't have access to those thing similar or alike. This is why MK is immune to this ever since MK ONE unlike SF2 and SFONE.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Shakunetsu

[Lord_Vega]

.

On 4/30/2021 at 6:59 PM, ShockDingo said:

@Lord_Vega@bakfromonDo you guys happen to know where the Richard Burgman blurb about Q comes from and also if there's a full translation? I recall seeing one from ages ago, but can't remember who did it and if it was accurate or not. I'm hoping to grab a scan and translation for my usual vids and such and it'd be helpful if anyone could help me out.

If you're referring to the translation in the plot guide, that's from All About Capcom page 345 and that's everything about him there.

Richard Burgman is also mentioned on the SF3-3rd Strike Online site back in 2011 on Q's character description (translation using Google translator):

 

■Q　-謎の存在-
「決して認めたくはないが、我々の組織力をもってしても、彼の存在を正式に肯定することは現時点では難しいという結末を得た。」

CIA広報官 リチャード・バーグマン談

 

Q-Existence of a mystery-
"I don't want to admit it, but even with our organizational strength, it's difficult to formally affirm his existence at this point."

Interview with CIA spokesman Richard Bergmann

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20110902224432/http://www.capcom.co.jp/sf3_3rd/character.html

 

I tried to track the original 3rd Strike from 1999, but it seems that there's only a move list. No character story/description.

 

Tomorrow I can get a picture of Eternal Challenge (UDON's translation) of Q's section. I don't remember if there's anything interesting there....

 

I wonder if there's anything about Richard on the 3rd Strike Secret File?

 

On 4/29/2021 at 8:56 AM, Daemos said:

THAT SF2 ENDING NEVER HAPPENED. EVER. RETCOOOOOOONZZZZZZ

Even if that was true, they retconned back to Gouki killing Vega in SF5. Just like they did with Nash's Z2 death being the canon one instead of the Z3 one....

 

On 4/29/2021 at 8:58 AM, Daemos said:

Yeah no.

Most recent game canon > everything else, especially if the latter contradicts the former. Unless the game explicitly mentions this, it will never be canon. Just like G is NOT the final boss of SF5.

Yes. But there's nothing contradicting that they share the same soul. That was straightforward mentioned in Rose's Z3 ending and in Rose's SF5 gameplay intro video. They don't need to repeat it in every game/book/guide. If they wanted to retcon this information, then they would simply tell/show it. Which they didn't....

 

On 4/29/2021 at 10:22 AM, N-Tactix said:

The whole idea that Alpha overrode SF2 will never make sense to me because of Cammy's story. How do the events of Alpha 3 happen and yet she quickly managed to become a Delta Red Agent and tracked down Bison? Unless it's a Guile situation where the events of A2 and A3 that went through Charlie's death were combined to Guile searching for Charlie = Alpha 2 Charlie ending

SF2 and SFZ3 are separate events. Capcom always stated as such. The Zero arc (Zero 2 and 3) happened  within the time span of a few months back in 1988. Capcom already decided that SF2 happens in 1991, that itself also messes with Cammy's age. She's said to be 19 in SF2 and 16 in Z3. However, her birthyear is stated as 1974. The math dont match. That's why everyone though SF2 was set in 1993 (even All About Capcom).

 

So either Cammy is still 19 in SF2 and 16 in Zero 3 but her birthyear is now 1971 (which I think is the case), or she was still born in 1974 and is 17 in SF2 and (gasp!) 14 in Zero 3.

 

[N-Tactix]

5 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

SF2 and SFZ3 are separate events. Capcom always stated as such. The Zero arc (Zero 2 and 3) happened  within the time span of a few months back in 1988.

Did it? Because I always assumed that there was a 2 year gap between A2 and A3. Ryu was 23 when he defeated Sagat, while Chun-Li was 19 when she joined Interpol, meaning that A2 was in August-November of 1987 as that matches up with the SF2 birthdates. But this gets thrown off since Ken's stage in Alpha 2 is during Eliza's birthday meaning that the events encompass late May too. Granted, most of this useless information I shouldn't have bothered about but it's still interesting.

 

Though, as you said, Cammy's age is what throws the whole thing off. She'd have to be born in 1971/1972 for that to work, thus meaning she would have to be at the most 20 when SF2 happened .

Edited May 2, 2021 by N-Tactix

[Daemos]

6 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

Even if that was true, they retconned back to Gouki killing Vega in SF5. Just like they did with Nash's Z2 death being the canon one instead of the Z3 one....

Nash's Z2 ending was retconned in the cinematic story and character story. Which are LIVE canon unfolding before our eyes.

The Arcade endings presented in SF5 are what ifs. Akuma never laid ONE FINGER on Bison! They don't know even know one another!

Edited May 2, 2021 by Daemos