Mr_Sack Posted April 11 Posted April 11 3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said: You are confusing engine with art style. Not all RE Engine games have a realistic look. True, but it is what is advertised to the public as its core feature, and only a small number of original games on the RE Engine do not have a realistic art style. Plus, engines do have limitations and styles that work better with some styles than with others. We don't have an RE Engine game that features the same Looney Tunes/Tom & Jerry exaggerated animation styling. HOPEFULLY a new Darkstalkers game can do exactly that. If the name of the engine really is "REach for the moon", then hopefully they'll do a strong reach for that wonderful Darkstalkers style with a new game and not limit it. Even if it fails, let it fail on its own terms, not do a poor job and appealing to no one. It definitely can't afford a loss like Resident Evil and Street Fighter can. DarthEnderX 1 Quote
CESTUS III Posted April 12 Posted April 12 wonder what the collab will be about, would like these outfits in WTM/Shop, ever welcome martial arts stuff over urban flat shit Btw ths thuesday we get next Fightng Pass, even if have good reason to believe will be a recycle of the old megaman one we already got Quote
DarthEnderX Posted April 13 Posted April 13 On 4/11/2026 at 6:57 AM, JohnJ said: What if they used the engine but the character's received the Tokon treatment? That'd be completely fine. After all, the Unreal engine also had a reputation for simulating bland "realistic" looking characters. ArcSys was able to use that same engine to do the 2.5D cel-shading it's become famous for. If Capcom can get the RE Engine to do the same thing, then fantastic! It's more about the art style than the engine. On 4/11/2026 at 7:54 AM, Darc_Requiem said: You are confusing engine with art style. Not all RE Engine games have a realistic look. Absolutely. But I'm just judging based on the Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, DMC and SF games that have been made with that engine(and also Pragmata). Which all look more or less the same. If RE Engine doesn't HAVE to look like that, then I'm fine with them using it. I just don't want Darkstalkers to look like that. thatanimedude9000, JohnJ and Mr_Sack 3 Quote
CESTUS III Posted April 13 Posted April 13 8 hours ago, DarthEnderX said: If Capcom can get the RE Engine to do the same thing, then fantastic! It's more about the art style than the engine. Absolutely. But I'm just judging based on the Resident Evil, Monster Hunter, DMC and SF games that have been made with that engine(and also Pragmata). Which all look more or less the same. If RE Engine doesn't HAVE to look like that, then I'm fine with them using it. I just don't want Darkstalkers to look like that. For what's worth MH Stories 3 look like this with RE Engine But i think you guys are focusing on the wrong problem The question is'nt that someebody is forcing them to use engines that struggle with cool japanese style, the problem are marketing guys/decision makers be like Capcom is still a bit on that "go full japan = bad" mood, lucky they're not traumatized as some years ago so for example justice got restored and we got the cool Itsuno's DMC5 after this abomination Spoiler with Antoniades feeling on the position to shit on og DMC, only to be replaced by superior og DMC afterward Or why lucky SF5 did'nt looked like this shit and even the "realistic" SF6 is more stylized and japanese looking than this MK wannabe crap But still both SF6 and DMC5 clearly bent the knee to some extent of westernization (imho doing damage, specially to some SF designs), and capcom guys enjoyed fat dollars from these games, so i have hard time imagine them see preserve old art as super important, specially to these decisions makers that are'nt even artists but managers that just want see profit Or to pick first example MH Stories 3 got cel-shading for the JRPG spin-off, but the main series for broad audience embraced a bit more realistic western approved style, some chars have essentially same realism-stylization ratio of SF6... like even within MH crazyness Gemma could easily be SF6 main cast material lol And we should consider tbh it took another company to have enough balls to recycle old capcom idea of make an anime looking Marvel fighter (TOKON), Capcom made stuff like MvC3 or MvCI Maybe if TOKON sell fucktons (hopefully) only at that point capcom would be "wait is unfair that was OUR idea!!! 😭" and maybe change strategy coming back to jap roots... but TOKON should sell REALLY fucktons for that If you dream a cel-shading Darkstalkers (i don't necessary need cel-shading, but i too would like it looking like a japanese/anime stylized game), RE engine should be last of our concerns... core would be some silly suit up high managers believing for some reason that a new Darkstalkers will be (and should be) inevitably mostly about japanese fans/audience and conceptualize the art direction with jap audience in mind If we were talking about a Rival Schools reboot, being a series about japanese highschools clashing, would be much more optimistic on it being done cel-shading... because would be a situation very similar to Tastunoko vs Capcom, so i can see them for once focus fully on game getting anime aesthetic For what's worth in the super old dead teaser, felt like DS announced around SF4 days looked as much stylized as SF4 Wich would fit how beside crazy animations, the og DS was more or less stylized in same way as SFA Feel like they may consider you can stylize both in similar way, despite different themes/extreme levels of transformations One legit hope i would stick to is DS having smaller budget and SF6 style being too high co$t for something they consider secondary tier project, so if we are lucky they go for more stylization to cover more simple models Quote
Mr_Sack Posted April 14 Posted April 14 4 hours ago, CESTUS III said: For what's worth MH Stories 3 look like this Looking at this and other screenshots, I can't help but be reminded of Mega Man Legends looking a LOT like this styling but back in 1997. That was such an amazing bit of PS1 magic they pulled off and its a shame that, like Rival Schools and its focus on the different game modes for the home ports, they were not way more appreciated and iterated upon from that point on. Makes me wonder why that iteration has had NO proper collection yet. I would not be opposed at all to them completely remaking Legends 1, 2, and Tron Bonne with the RE Engine to reintroduce the games (alongside some minor QoL updates) to modern audiences...in preparation for a long-awaited sequel. 4 hours ago, CESTUS III said: the problem are marketing guys/decision makers Always has been. Okamoto confirmed that and Matt Leone's oral history on Street Fighter had an entire section on Darkstlkers in the printed version talking about the trials and tribulations of the series: not selling enough for proper respect. And yeah, I've repeated these tales plenty of times on here. It's because we've suffered with over a decade of "Darkstalkers was never popular" by people thinking they know better and feeling vindicated in their opinions by Capcom remaining silent at best and making brain dead decisions about them at worst (declaring the Ressurection collection a failure in under a month). As soon as Capcom finally gives this series a fair shake AND stops mishandling it. 4 hours ago, CESTUS III said: like even within MH crazyness Gemma could easily be SF6 main cast material lol Coming in Season 4... 4 hours ago, CESTUS III said: If you dream a cel-shading Darkstalkers (i don't necessary need cel-shading, but i too would like it looking like a japanese/anime stylized game), RE engine should be last of our concerns... core would be some silly suit up high managers believing for some reason that a new Darkstalkers will be (and should be) inevitably mostly about japanese fans/audience and conceptualize the art direction with jap audience in mind Wich would fit how beside crazy animations, the og DS was more or less stylized in same way as SFA Feel like they may consider you can stylize both in similar way, despite different themes/extreme levels of transformations One legit hope i would stick to is DS having smaller budget and SF6 style being too high co$t for something they consider secondary tier project, so if we are lucky they go for more stylization to cover more simple models Ono really championed a new Darkstalkers, even if the sensibilities at the time would not have been ideal. And Nakayama hinted he was originally hired to work on something "vampire bat" related, so its likely there's a number of Darkstalkers fans within Capcom. Still, there are plenty of fans who all think they know what's best for the series, despite claiming it to be "Capcom's Mortal Kombat" which could not even begin to completely misunderstand the series. If someone is tasked with bringing it back, hopefully they studied the games before it and understand what truly made Darkstalkers unique and can play to those strengths with the tools at hand. And for what it's worth, Darkstalkers seemed to have one foot in Eastern character design and Western animation theory. CESTUS III 1 Quote
CESTUS III Posted April 14 Posted April 14 (edited) stuff Spoiler 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Looking at this and other screenshots, I can't help but be reminded of Mega Man Legends looking a LOT like this styling but back in 1997. That was such an amazing bit of PS1 magic they pulled off and its a shame that, like Rival Schools and its focus on the different game modes for the home ports, they were not way more appreciated and iterated upon from that point on. Makes me wonder why that iteration has had NO proper collection yet. I would not be opposed at all to them completely remaking Legends 1, 2, and Tron Bonne with the RE Engine to reintroduce the games (alongside some minor QoL updates) to modern audiences...in preparation for a long-awaited sequel. Imho Legends was the natural evolution of the series, too bad they don't seem to have any ambition anymore for the brand beyond milk nostalgia out of gray hair fans with stuff like MM11 or MM Dual Override Would have loved nextgen MM to become a cel-shading anime looking Vanquish like game with platforming using this stylistic approach 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Always has been. i like to believe there was a japanese golden era where SH were proud af and creatives had way more green light at express their ideas and gave us lot jewels Then the tragedy crap X360/USA > PS3/Japan era happened, even even if has been just one console generation, is like the wound on japanese industry never fully healed Wich is not just perception of the SH tbh, the audience landscape changed a lot after that generation... tons of new western gamers wth no love for jap tradition, lot of former japanese players that left console world or exiled themselves on the Nintendo option, wich for good amount of time was about get first party N stuff and give up ofn third party ones Then you have Sony returned successful but wearing awkward cowboy hat, moving to california, closing Japan Studio and all that shit... all while bombing hard with multimillion crap like Concord and on other side winning an imho very deserved GOTY with Astro wich is made by like 60 people lot of wich former Japan Studio people And when new cool looking japanese game get released average gamer is like "this should come out on Switch", while on ideal world Playstation should offer any third party jap pearl I admit problem is me, market changed while i would love just get all these golden era japan goods with next gen shameless japan stuff on my Playstation But is also true if new players have no loyalty to golden era japan because they simply missed it, if you never deliver new quality stuff you'll never build such fanbase again 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Okamoto confirmed that and Matt Leone's oral history on Street Fighter had an entire section on Darkstlkers in the printed version talking about the trials and tribulations of the series: not selling enough for proper respect. And yeah, I've repeated these tales plenty of times on here. It's because we've suffered with over a decade of "Darkstalkers was never popular" by people thinking they know better and feeling vindicated in their opinions by Capcom remaining silent at best and making brain dead decisions about them at worst (declaring the Ressurection collection a failure in under a month). As soon as Capcom finally gives this series a fair shake AND stops mishandling it. Reality is simple, you should value a game quality not on raw sales numbers, bu setting your sales expectations on what the real starting point is DS is awesome But to begin with DS is a legit FG wich is niche genre and while at it a FG that if makes it in top10 popularity, it sit in lower half of it So is a semi-niche brand within a niche genre and last legit chapter was released in late 90s, with only Morrigan trying carry a bit of hype to it thanks to cameos in other games With this premise expectations on wich number could be considered a success should be fair I prefer like i said you find an artstyle that cost you less (wich is'nt necessary worse looking), but reachin fair number you declare it success, because let's be real even spending fuckton for SF6 quality DS as brand is'nt selling like SF6, wich on is own already sell much less than stuff like RE or MH wich are less niche genres My ideal approach to DS should be a mix between high quality and low expectations, trying find the right balance to have a well made smaller/mid scale project 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Coming in Season 4... No lie to me is CRAZY they did'nt went all-in on Gemma hype doing a Cammy alt costume But Capcom seems not interested get money from SF6 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Ono really championed a new Darkstalkers, even if the sensibilities at the time would not have been ideal. And Nakayama hinted he was originally hired to work on something "vampire bat" related, so its likely there's a number of Darkstalkers fans within Capcom. My simple take is anything Ono wanted died when they defenestrated Ono To me was'nt just about throw the man out of the boat but also show the type of figure they don't want anymore... Not saying Nakayama is souless, but on top of being waaay more reliable definitely feel more the type the company can control and limit If Nakayama wants anything does'nt seem (to me, i may be wrong) the type that would get loud to push Capcom make it happen Everybody roasted Ono for all his flaws, but few give him credit for being the guy that insisted to resurrect SF and did it MegaMan should be enough proof no brand is too important, holy or needed for Capcom 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: Still, there are plenty of fans who all think they know what's best for the series, despite claiming it to be "Capcom's Mortal Kombat" which could not even begin to completely misunderstand the series. If someone is tasked with bringing it back, hopefully they studied the games before it and understand what truly made Darkstalkers unique and can play to those strengths with the tools at hand. Some fans should not vote, drive a car or own a dog, let alone have opinions 😂 Problem is some devs (and worse some high managers) should not either, yet they do Other company games that resonate with DS spirit (in very loose way) are imho Guilty Gear* and Skullgirls, but of course DS is born before them so they was the ones inspired by it DS is "capcom's" nothing, literally is just born as halloween version of SF like RS was (3D) highschool version of SF * while at it, give it darker, more vibrant and less delicate vibe and THIS level of cel-shading stylization would be absolutely great style to do a new DS game,speecially if using the old DS ova as guide for the chara design But some cap-suit would rather get heart attack lol Again, i don't even ask for that tbh, just give me a good looking DS that i feel honor the original spirit 23 hours ago, Mr_Sack said: And for what it's worth, Darkstalkers seemed to have one foot in Eastern character design and Western animation theory. That's the part i imagine will be toned down To put it simple i would expect a DS wich essentially is handled as a SF with monsters and crazyness (moves/animations/mechanics) set on x2, but that's about it imho PS: before forgot to mention Capcom already started betray classic anime DS style when they hired Genzoman for DS Resurrection i mean DS got many artists going at it with various results, Ikeno and Bengus being best, but also Edayan and i loved a lot also Shuko Murase, who is'nt even a Capcom person yet nailed the og sharp style perfectly then DS Resurrection happened but some marketing guy probably thought is more western-acceptable than use an actual Capcom artist or somebody that would do it right, so they went for that Does'nt help my optimism think that's the most recent we got Edited April 15 by CESTUS III Mr_Sack 1 Quote
Mr_Sack Posted April 14 Posted April 14 3 hours ago, CESTUS III said: i like to believe there was a japanese golden era where SH were proud af and creatives had way more green light at express their ideas and gave us lot jewels I naively believed that Marvel permitted Capcom to develop their games out of an idea they recognized them as a very capable game developer (they handled the Disney licenses in the late 80s and early 90s after all), and could not fathom Marvel switching to EA for the awful "Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects". Of course, when Marvel vs Capcom 3 came back around and Capcom's business practices & relationship with Marvel became more open and apparent, it was clear that, to Marvel, it was strictly business, even though some of the devs were devout Marvel Zombies. It's why I'm not all that chuffed over Marvel Tokon; in fact, getting rid of the albatross means we don't have to worry about that crossover being demanded for a time and we can likely get what we want from Capcom instead. Also, it was a shame my childish notion of perfect hegemony between Capcom and Marvel was captured, as when X-Men vs Street Fighter came to blow away our expectations and we got the adorable Pocket Fighter, I naturally believed the two would have tapped into Marvel lore and blessed us with X-Babies vs Pocket Fighter. Alas... 5 hours ago, CESTUS III said: i like to believe there was a japanese golden era where SH were proud af and creatives had way more green light at express their ideas and gave us lot jewels Then the tragedy crap X360/USA > PS3/Japan era happened, even even if has been just one console generation, is like the wound on japanese industry never fully healed Wich is not just perception of the SH tbh, the audience landscape changed a lot after that generation... tons of new western gamers wth no love for jap tradition, lot of former japanese players that left console world or exiled themselves on the Nintendo option, wich for good amount of time was about get first party N stuff and give up ofn third party ones Then you have Sony returned successful but wearing awkward cowboy hat, moving to california, closing Japan Studio and all that shit... all while bombing hard with multimillion crap like Concord and on other side winning an imho very deserved GOTY with Astro wich is made by like 60 people lot of wich former Japan Studio people And when new cool looking japanese game get released average gamer is like "this should come out on Switch", while on ideal world Playstation should offer any third party jap pearl I admit problem is me, market changed while i would love just get all these golden era japan goods with next gen shameless japan stuff on my Playstation But is also true if new players have no loyalty to golden era japan because they simply missed it, if you never deliver new quality stuff you'll never build such fanbase again The whole "Japan is lame" mentality definitely hurt things, especially in the West where programs like G4 permitted chuds to vomit such dreck onto mainstream audiences beginning to tap into the gaming scene, but what REALLY hampered it was sabotage from within, namely Keiji Inafune's decree of appealing more to Western sensibilities and declaring Japanese gaming stagnant. In a way, it was a shot in the arm Capcom needed to really examine themselves and course correct, as they spent too much time chasing trends, and when Capcom chases trends instead of establishes them, then things go really bad, but it was definitely not by Inafune's design to change things for the better by criticizing the landscape as he did. And yeah, I backed the Mighty No 9 project believing it was the right thing to do. A shame, cuz it had potential...but at least Mega Man is beginning to heal. 5 hours ago, CESTUS III said: PS: before forgot to mention Capcom already started betray classic anime DS style when they hired Genzoman for DS Resurrection i mean DS got many artists going at it with various results, Ikeno and Bengus being best, but also Edayan and i loved a lot also Shuko Murase, who is'nt even a Capcom person yet nailed the og sharp style perfectly I think you're thinking of Stanley Lau, aka "Artgerm". He did all the high-res art used for packaging and the portrait inserts on the select screen. They were fine as box art, but had no animation potential behind them. They were all pose, no potential. 5 hours ago, CESTUS III said: Other company games that resonate with DS spirit (in very loose way) are imho Guilty Gear* and Skullgirls, but of course DS is born before them so they was the ones inspired by it DS is "capcom's" nothing, literally is just born as halloween version of SF like RS was (3D) highschool version of SF Some people just want that high-concept pitch phrase to easily grab a (mis)conception of a property. And it's funny you say that given the recent Capcom exhibit that shows Darkstalkers and Rival Schools as off-shoots of Street Fighter, like they co-exist together, when in reality it simply shows the relationship of the genre, as you said, "Halloween Street Fighter" (obviously more to it than that but I understand). CESTUS III 1 Quote
CESTUS III Posted April 15 Posted April 15 @Mr_Sackthat's cool stuff, i put under spoiler just because i'm doing to much OT, but is all here below 👍 Spoiler 39 minutes ago, Mr_Sack said: I think you're thinking of Stanley Lau, aka "Artgerm". He did all the high-res art used for packaging and the portrait inserts on the select screen. They were fine as box art, but had no animation potential behind them. They were all pose, no potential. Yeah correct, Artgerm not Genzoman To be clear don't blame the artist to do his thing in his own style (not my thing, but that's not the point), i blame Capcom for having selected him in weird attempt of distance DS from anime roots When i watch DS R art, i live it as so guess i should at least respect their will to somehow stick to their original sin 😄 Joke aside Artgerm even did efforts to stick a bit to old art, but simply i don't see his style as DS stuff... i also saw a very beautiful Morrigan illustration, but i see it as external illustration stuff If DS art should be handled by anybody not from Capcom i would go for the above mentioned Shuko Murase or Yusuke Murata And on YM i would have trust that name on style compatibility with old capcom stuff alone, but as overkill YM actually did this piece But if who chose artists WANT to totally change direction going west is hard to expect that dude make any of our dreams become true 59 minutes ago, Mr_Sack said: Some people just want that high-concept pitch phrase to easily grab a (mis)conception of a property. And it's funny you say that given the recent Capcom exhibit that shows Darkstalkers and Rival Schools as off-shoots of Street Fighter, like they co-exist together, when in reality it simply shows the relationship of the genre, as you said, "Halloween Street Fighter" (obviously more to it than that but I understand). And i forgot to mention Star Gladiators as space/scifi SF 😄 Oh and Cybeerbots being SF robots... hilarious how actual robots themselves were unique looking (beside robot akuma lol) but pilots you don't even see ingame fighting were assembled as group with that SF fighters soul lol Reality is none of these titles is so heavily derivative from SF to not have their own identity, but they all come from SF dna because SF was'nt just a game but a whole genre When Capcom fully shaped their idea of SF (i would say SF2, with SF1 working as the prototype) they did'nt invented just a game but a formula, a way of do a Capcom FG... from there Capcom with other games or even other rival companies took that formula to do different stuff starting from same genes Interesting part to me is go see how almost every character in SF2 (and later and even previos games) come from somewhere as heavy inspiration up to rip-off, but this does'nt make me see it as more cheap, in my eyes it solidify the idea they had this "recipe" way of thinking and went here and there picking the different ingredients they needed for assemble it/make it work, the chemistry of different archetypes balancing each other and all that, they had in mind a structure that decadees after is still used by most Once you have this you can do SF-like anything, then the more you add the more game grow it's own personality and become it's own thing in different (for good or for bad, for bad being not that rare lol) But is hilarius if we take two of the main FG franchises first chapter, VF and TK, let's timetravel backward and remove all the layers of progress they did with their own legs, back to day 0 they could not even avoid start it as "we got Ryu-vs-Ken at home", had to be done 😄 Would say on other side games like DS or RS being capcom titles themselves are born already with the need of have their own reason to exist from day1, because would not make much sense for Capcom to copy itself doing a SF copy ( 😄) ... SF2 was already the "day 0" starting point for any capcom fg, so DS/RS/SG were born already with the concept/need of use these SF-genes for something very different 1 hour ago, Mr_Sack said: The whole "Japan is lame" mentality definitely hurt things, especially in the West where programs like G4 permitted chuds to vomit such dreck onto mainstream audiences beginning to tap into the gaming scene, but what REALLY hampered it was sabotage from within, namely Keiji Inafune's decree of appealing more to Western sensibilities and declaring Japanese gaming stagnant. In a way, it was a shot in the arm Capcom needed to really examine themselves and course correct, as they spent too much time chasing trends, and when Capcom chases trends instead of establishes them, then things go really bad, but it was definitely not by Inafune's design to change things for the better by criticizing the landscape as he did. To be fair has been quite the suckerpunch, xbox1 sucked and PS2 ruled as the GOAT and most of these western players were playing that pew pew shit on that weird planet called PC Then all went Constantinople Thing has been horrible mindset at face failure, instant dropping all your values dreaming to grab these CoD $$$ and get "manager of the year" picture at company's entrance, who cares wich is the price F traditions We love imagine them as very japanese (in the way we romanticize them, me first) in terms of art style, pride and passion, while on reality at times they just feel more very japanese as corporate mindset and goals lol Or at least those with power to take decisions But Inafune was'nt the disease, disease was everybody instant give up all Inafune was the doctor that made up a cure worse than the disease, but nobody would have listened him or revolutioned anything if patient was'nt feeling sick Think DMC4. Had good chara design & combat system. And 99 bad flaws. Their cure has not been recognize and fix the flaws preserving the actual japanese goods but totally rationally scream "too japanese thats why!!" as next game replacer go with donte wich had worse chara design & combat system and history most embarassing director who while at it never did anything good as DMC4, but he's some kind of western person so we should trust his western magic while he public insult our past work, all with Inafune's approval. Then of course not only brand sold its soul and embraced downgrade, but ultimately sold less than DMC4 too, once in a while justice bless this world 😂 But i have hard time demonize Inafune (who i don't like), i mean we all remember Ono as this man that while got flaws, was this holy last old guard japanese cap-dev who fallen as martyr under this cruel western world, yet Ono was one that started push SF westernization Harada is another holy samurai, Harada is same guy who put this in Tekken City of the Wolves have all that pure attitude then is also this Idk seek heroes in jap industry is like seek a fantasy pure maiden to marry in dirtiest brothel of some crack city, i mean you may have that image in mind but don't step in the building before be protected ANd when struggle to point at heroes, recognize "villains" get tricky too If anything the most sad part of this situation is that historians will indeed see Inafune as the first doctor that actually found the right cure Does'nt matter if patients he directly cured with his hands did'nt end up well, ultimately in the long run current capcom figured out how to play the western hat game and today sell millions competing with western companies Wich is great for capcom suits pockets, not necessary for me as fan Meanwhile the old capcom wich produced tons and tons of 100% jap IPs disappeared New IPs are barely recognizable as "Capcom style" stuff, because capcom style itself almost disappeared Most of their IP are dead or dormant, for years or forever Big alive ones have to get "realistic" graphics oriented stylization because otherwise how western audience will ever like it (impossible!) This is the "evolved capcom" who can stand and bang against big rival western SHs and sell millions, why i don't feel like we fans won?' The shitty 360>PS3 is long gone nightmare, and japanese console PS5 rule undisputed console world, why i don't feel like we fans won? That's why when we debate if next DS (if we're getting a legit one) should be 98% , 100% or 107% anime looking, i'm like "eh, i wish we sit at such point lol" 😄 Mr_Sack 1 Quote
Chun-Li_Forever Posted April 15 Posted April 15 So have they changed Alex's story text with the update? Quote
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