The Guilty Gear general: Getting Wildly Assaulted in the Keyhole

[GetTheTables]

26 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

So you've been ducking me on PS4 then.

 

I see how it is.

Don't take it personally. I've been ducking everyone for the past 2 months. 😎

 

I feel the call again and I figure Strive could use one more Ram player out there. Really contribute to the online experience. 

[Vhozite]

2 hours ago, GetTheTables said:

Hope you like Dragon Install!

I low key feel like this is gonna be the “they buffed lariat again?!” move for Ky. 

[Vhozite]

Anyone want games for like half an hour? 

[Sonero]

Get  a PS4.

[Vhozite]

4 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Get  a PS4.

I have one

 

Spoiler

It’s not even hooked up and my PSN expired like a year ago 

 

[Pair of Rooks]

Finally got to play for a few hours. 😊

 

Bigger throw tech window nerfs run-up throw. FML.  I've seen more techs in two hours than all of last month. 

 

jS jD has same issue for me as jK jD: if I whiff, I'm doing an overhead on the ground.  Still a nice change, I just suck.

 

Faust buffs.  Faster 5P 6P better hitbox on 2S more combos off of them -- I got hit by all of it. Combined with previous hitbox extension on 2H and I actually have trouble hitting him or controlling the match. Dude just presses buttons and I have to respect it.  Matchup feels even-ish now? (Was in Ky's favor.) 

 

DI isn't complete trash thanks to plasma recovery buff + great chip damage. Still not the preferred super tho. 

 

Sacred Edge (fireball super) travel speed increase makes a few CH tip-of-6H f.arc combos connect more reliably. Nice QoL. 

 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Pair of Rooks

[Gasarocky]

Played a blue aura Millia for a long set last night.

 

Was a freaking ton of fun and maybe the most fun matches I'd had so far.

 

I don't think Strive is perfect or anything but man the game is SO fucking fun. I fucking love Guilty Gear, and this patch makes it feel even more like GG.

 

Also, I think they over buffed Nago clone. The fact that it goes full screen and so fast is incredibly strong and makes it super easy for me to use. I would honestly be fine with them nerfing either the distance or projectile travel speed back to how it was. Just keep the faster startup and one or the other of the former

Edited October 20, 2021 by Gasarocky

[Sonero]

Think overall Gio got left behind.

[Phantom_Miria]

48 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Think overall Gio got left behind.

She was a hater, as the prophecy foresaw.

[Vhozite]

9 hours ago, Sonero said:

Think overall Gio got left behind.

Can you explain why? Not disagreeing just curious

[Pair of Rooks]

10 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Can you explain why? Not disagreeing just curious

Let my good friend Rooflemonger show you

I haven't watched this yet but thumbnail...

 

EDIT nevermind, I just watched the vid, you're on your own sonero lol

Edited October 20, 2021 by Pair of Rooks

[Sonero]

13 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Can you explain why? Not disagreeing just curious

Its a long list of small things that just makes things worse. They added some more pushback to C.S, they made her stable juggle from 5K worse, they changed FD so that it does more (and it was already really good against Gio), reversal window opened up, more characters have 5 frame buttons, etc.

 

Right now the way FD works, if Gio presses C.S, she gets sent the hell away like its an MvC3 pushback. That makes it way harder to try to go to a frame trap, similarly makes it harder to threaten the throw. So now you have to do one C.S...and then hope they didn't FD. You could dash after to try and throw but along with the buffer on reversals and FD not having the +2 frames when you do it. Like I said before, hitting Gio with FD was already good, now its just nutty.

 

So her pressure got goofed up something fierce. What else happened to her? All the combos from day 1 that she's been doing since the game released? Yeah throw most of that in the trash. How people react to this is different but it really causes some big issues. Instead of being able to reliably going into her 6H juggle ender, she gets to jump cancel and do things with it. In some instances this does way more damage. The problem though, is that its way less reliable in a lot of places. Her combos already forced heavy gravity on the opponent (the more hits the more they are pushed away and the faster they fall), but now you're fighting a lot of that iffy feeling in some spots. The goofiest part of it is that they buffed the 6H sequence so that the ender would hit consistently more often last patch....and then made it so that you can't easily go into it anymore because reasons.

 

The changes above also ended screwing up some of the RC combos too. She has new stuff but its all weird.

 

So they made it harder for her to open people up long term, her combos are fancier on some ends but way more sensitive for it, is that all? Well not really. The rest of the cast seemingly got either new mix ups, new neutral tools or both. Gio got one normal and her DP nerfed. Those two use to hit somewhat low to the ground. It wasn't always super reliable, but you could realistically stuff Stroke the Big Tree with Gio's F.S and sometimes just DP that ass for a big counterhit combo. This got taken out for seemingly no reason other than they didn't like it. Sol is flying at you, Ram is dash canceling rekkas into nonsense, Nago had his DP turned into a weird 2 hit rekka he can use as anti airs and frame traps and...gio got striaght out cucked out of utility. 

 

 

For all that she got...welp, canceling her dash moving forward. That is really good don't get me wrong, but  you gotta remember that the one dashy thing is all the new stuff she got. I'm listening to EvilCanadian's vid and he basically leaves out all fo the above (mind you he has his audience and all that jazz). But you get all these characters that move sped up, given more utility etc. etc etc. Gio lost utility on one special and the rest stayed he same, but hey I can dash at you better because you made FD jack her up entirely.

 

 

This isn't to say she is hopeless. She isn't. Still really good, hits like a truck and all that. But you got millia flying around, Sol the same, Nago who even knows what his problem is, May hits harder than most of the cast sans Sol and really Gio might as well just sit in a corner. She got no new ways to open people up, almost all the universal changes bone her up the bigger Burst explosion and the throw OS and easier tech window. Like man, they just backhanded the ever living shit out of her in a lot of tiny ways.

[Vhozite]

Yeah thinking on it a bit I can see how a character like that would get fucked by the universal changes. 
 

Thanks

[Sonero]

I still really enjoy playing her. With the new routes, she has some cool execution stuff and other things she can do. But off the jump even some Gios better than me are wondering why not go to a character that gets less boned by FD like Leo, Ram, I-No and Millia. 

 

It doesn't seem like she got hit hard. But everybody either already had a lot of options to them or they got more of them. So she has to fight people with less pressure, less mix ups, but more now I have to try and outfootsies everybody with the new dash canceled normals.

 

So right now its up in the air. I was messing around with the dash cancel stuff and she can do a throw from a lot earlier. Which means that at the same range that you push block her, you can also dash throw/dash button. One beats backdash, the other loses. Maybe that's where they want her to be instead of doing frame traps but it's a little bit less good than the stuff before.

[Pair of Rooks]

Roofie just lists her as a greatest winner cause she's got a pseudo infinite on all his favorite characters. 😂

 

I do think Gio benefits the most(?) from the new air gatling route, though I don't know how she's gonna force anyone to jump so she can use it.

 

Meanwhile I'm winning games with Ky's new super.  Its nutty chip damage pairs really well with his new special that throws hitboxes across the screen.  At one point I dumped a CSE + immediate SacrEdge into a Leo's block and just melted him. 

 

(I'm really glad the recovery reduction was real and not just some hitstop foolery to make patch notes look impressive. 8f feels like double digits since startup makes up more of the total duration.) 

 

I beat a VIP Faust today because he didn't 2S enough. Chipped him out with double DI Dire Eclat too. 🥰

 

[ZioSerpe]

I got to play the new patch last week-end.
Since then I have been doing Shield into B+C on every request to play Type Lumina and I am back in the lab trying to get some heavy Jack'o muscle memory and finding new setups with the new stuff so I can hopefully eventually get her to the level where my Millia was.

But in all of this I wonder:
Why the fuck does Ram keep getting buffs after I dropped her? I swear, if I keep failing as Jack'o and at the same time I start seeing Ram gameplay when she's not "playing neurtral" by doing jump slash I might go back to her.

 

[Sonero]

 

[Vhozite]

Bro I’m fighting Zato wtf is happening 

[Sonero]

2 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Bro I’m fighting Zato wtf is happening 

 

People said the game was baby mode and Cipher said there was no pressure.

 

Zato and Eddie got this on repeat though:

 

 

[Vhozite]

Lol you’ll get so pressed over other people’s opinion that you comment about it days later unprompted 

[Sonero]

23 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Lol you’ll get so pressed over other people’s opinion that you comment about it days later unprompted 

 

I don't get pressed about people's opinions. I just call out demonstrably wrong stuff.

 

If you don't like a game, you don't like a game. But people saying random dumb shit about other games is the biggest gateway to people not trying them. Not saying this is you, but people tend to misremember stuff constantly. That part is fine. But when it comes to new games, people also tend to exaggerate based on a thing here or there.

 

There is a world of difference between "I don't like this game" to "This game plays like this".

[Vhozite]

8 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

I don't get pressed about people's opinions. I just call out demonstrably wrong stuff.

 

If you don't like a game, you don't like a game. But people saying random dumb shit about other games is the biggest gateway to people not trying them. Not saying this is you, but people tend to misremember stuff constantly. That part is fine. But when it comes to new games, people also tend to exaggerate based on a thing here or there.

 

There is a world of difference between "I don't like this game" to "This game plays like this".

lol You’ve literally done exactly what you’re describing with MK11, and probably think it’s ok because “lol NRS”

 

Also Cipher saying the game has no offense is obviously in comparison to other anime games, not that Strive doesn’t have its own options for its own meta.

Edited October 22, 2021 by Vhozite

[Vhozite]

In other news, how do y’all feel about the balance post patch?

 

I feel a lot of characters got buffed, but at the same time I feel like the the actual balance between characters could be better. In particular I feel like Nago, Ram, and (to a lesser extent than before) Sol are playing a different game than everyone else. I think they’re mostly ok but it would be nice if other characters were at their level of...completeness. Like use one of them then go to a character like Anji and there is a noticeable gap in how the characters feel.

 

Edit: I also think the damage in this game is fine. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:47 AM, Vhozite said:

lol You’ve literally done exactly what you’re describing with MK11, and probably think it’s ok because “lol NRS”

 

No I don't. I've gone back to watch some of the high level stuff to see if I was misunderstanding but stuff checked out. 

 

Also,

 

 

empty air dash to bait 6Ps. Justin still a gawd.

 

[Vhozite]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

No I don't. 

Lol we really about to do this? 
 

Here we have you whining about AND misrepresenting a MK interaction in bad faith. Then after I explained in detail why your post was dumb, instead of admitting you were wrong or even commenting on what I said you just pivoted to saying MK is also trash because of teleports. That’s after you erroneously called Sub a zoner and implied he was bad (LOL). Me and Hawk tell you you’re wrong, and again instead of even entertaining the fact you don’t know what you’re talking about you watch a half hour of YT vids (this is the closest you come to admitting you don’t know what you’re talking about) and continue to half-assedly rant about the game. 

 

Mind you I actually respect some of your opinions on MK, but tbh it was laughably obvious you did not play the for any serious length of time, if at all. 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

Wait a minute now, bringing receipts is a bannable offense.

 

👀

 

Gonna get that ass banned in SRK.

[Vhozite]

 

I don’t know if anyone else here plays Millia, but this dude is a high level Millia and this is one of the best combo videos I’ve ever seen. 
 

Instead of just recording a bunch of Hail Mary shit with no explanation he actually goes in her combo theory a bit with some “where/when/why/how” regarding her conversions. 

[Vhozite]

2 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Wait a minute now, bringing receipts is a bannable offense.

 

👀

 

Gonna get that ass banned in SRK.

Funny you say this because until I looked for that post I had no idea you were a mod LOL. 

[Sonero]

31 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Funny you say this because until I looked for that post I had no idea you were a mod LOL. 

 

The title is lies. I'm not moderating anything unless the chain of command makes it all the way to the Secretary of Agriculture.

 

 

[Pair of Rooks]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

The title is lies. I'm not moderating anything unless the chain of command makes it all the way to the Secretary of Agriculture.

 

 

That's the Secretary of Absolute Agriculture to you plebs!

 

Also I don't see what Wong did. You don't fall slower by attacking.

[Pair of Rooks]

New matchup chart from an automated data pull.

 

 

Thread 

 

 

[Gasarocky]

4 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

New matchup chart from an automated data pull.

 

Thread says this is from before 1.10 came out so it isn't totally valid at the moment, but still interesting. Will be curious to see how 1.10 looks.

 

My guess on GL being that high is because of a small sample size though, so not enough people had experience against him last month.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Gasarocky

[Sonero]

GoldLewis is a problem. People are gonna keep sleeping on him even though he is legit kinda nuts.

[Gasarocky]

44 minutes ago, Sonero said:

GoldLewis is a problem. People are gonna keep sleeping on him even though he is legit kinda nuts.

I think FD changes have preemptively helped quite a bit honestly. It doesn't kill his pressure like some are saying but it definitely makes it less oppressive while helping his own weak defense. Helps make him feel a little more balanced to fight I think. We'll see how it shakes out though

[Laughingman]

 

For those who don't think that Ram is broken...

 

(For thoses who don't know, this is a reversal super, that hit about 2/3rds of the screen and is 236236 input, so it can be done from block...)

 

I've given the new patch about a week to see if I'm OK with it.  The system mechanic changes are great and help to improve the game, but the gap between Sol, Ram, Nargo (lesser extend Leo and May) and the rest, is just too big for me.  So having said that, I'm out, I'm going back to Melty, until this is sorted.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Laughingman

[Sonero]

1 hour ago, Laughingman said:

The system mechanic changes are great and help to improve the game, but the gap between Sol, Ram, Nargo (lesser extend Leo and May) and the rest, is just too big for me. 

 

Who do you play?

 

Also this wasn't a balance patch. We have to come to terms with that.

[Laughingman]

5 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

Who do you play?

 

Also this wasn't a balance patch. We have to come to terms with that.

Gio, with a bit of I-No on the side.  They got some nice buffs, mainly indirectly.  Gio can now punish fireballs a lot easier, without committing to her spiral arrow and comfirming her jH with jD is great.  I-No's 5S is really good now, but she has very low damage and I'm not a fan of diagonal air dash.  Coming from +R I-No, it feels like she's had her legs cut off.

 

Please bear in mind that I'm an average player, at best, I hang around floors 7-8.  With that being said, if this is Arc Sys's vision for the game, then it's not for me.  I what to fight against the whole of the cast just half and I want lose because I made the wrong choice not to the other character's BS.

 

Also, some more fuel for my fire:

 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by Laughingman

[Sonero]

31 minutes ago, Laughingman said:

Also, some more fuel for my fire:

 

That Jack-O player made hella mistakes there.

 

I play Gio too, and I can sort of see where you're coming from. But if you want some tips, run sets etc later on (if you change your mind) hit me up here. Sometimes its frustrating because we dont' have the new answers for changes.

[Laughingman]

19 minutes ago, Sonero said:

I play Gio too, and I can sort of see where you're coming from. But if you want some tips, run sets etc later on (if you change your mind) hit me up here. Sometimes its frustrating because we dont' have the new answers for changes.

 

Thanks for the offer, I might take you on it, once the salt levels reduce.  What system(s) and time zone are you?  I'm only on PC and in the UK.

[Pair of Rooks]

14 hours ago, Gasarocky said:

Thread says this is from before 1.10 came out so it isn't totally valid at the moment, but still interesting. Will be curious to see how 1.10 looks.

 

Since he collected data automatically the chart is much more solid than the previous one.

 

It certainly explains why Milia got juiced this patch. She was the second worst-performing in the game excluding new dlc? Wow. I would not have guessed.

 

And how tf did Faust have the game's worst mu, Axl 7:3, but his second worst mu was Gio who is like the polar opposite of Axl.  How tf does one man lose that hard to the zoning specialist and the rushdown specialist?? 

 

I'm glad Ky has no real polarizing matchups anymore, but he's still a full point below average.  I presume he'll do a bit better now in 1.10.  Better fireballs + usable DI with chip will improve the Pot match, and doesn't hurt the others. 

 

Also lol at Sol and Ky having nearly the exact same matchups. Only Chipp and Ram differed, both in Ky's favor?! 

 

Still no idea wtf they were on when patching Ram most recently though. Maybe make her less linear? Her mu spread was fine. 

[Vhozite]

Jesus Christ Millia is so fun but losing with her is so frustrating. Feels like every game I do well until I lose 75% to one counter hit confirm and then get bodied by the next mixup. I’m not complaining about dying to mix because setplay it Millia’s whole game, but Jesus she is made of wet paper. I fought Goldlewis for the first time and was legit dying in like 4-5 touches. Not only that but Winger has to be one of the worst reversal supers in the game. 
 

I also feel like slash top is getting me into trouble. It does no damage, sends the opponent full screen, extremely minus on block, and Millia has CH property for the entire duration (see above). It’s decent as a whiff punish because of its speed and high profile but really I feel like I don’t actually get anything of value from this move outside of the corner. Ironic since it’s the whole reason I picked her up. 
 

All that said I still enjoy how approachable Millia is without being boring. No extra meters to look at, no resources to manage, no stances, etc. Just really fast with extra air movement.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Vhozite

[Vhozite]

It’s a small thing but Millia’s fast fall and command dash having mirrored motions on the same button really fucks with me

[BornWinner]

4 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

And how tf did Faust have the game's worst mu, Axl 7:3, but his second worst mu was Gio who is like the polar opposite of Axl.  How tf does one man lose that hard to the zoning specialist and the rushdown specialist?? 

Assuming these questions aren’t rhetorical, allow me to explain.

 

Faust vs Axl: Faust has a hard time navigating through Axl’s normals with his giant body and weird movement. The range of his normals being outclassed by Axl’s also means that Faust has to get in in order to win. It was also difficult to use Faust’s item toss full screen since Axl can do either Snail or Command Grab on his recovery. With Faust’s dash being able to low profile earlier means he can at least get through Axl’s 5P at least.
 

Faust vs Giovanna: Before the 1.10 patch, Faust’s fastest move was 6 frames. If Gio ever got in, it was over because Faust couldn’t contest Gio’s pressure without reversal super. Item Toss was also difficult to use if you’re not full screen since Gio can just dash in. The buffs Faust got in the last two patches, it should make the Gio matchup more tolerable. But with Gio getting a pseudo-infinite against Faust in this patch, I can’t say for sure.

 

4 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Still no idea wtf they were on when patching Ram most recently though. Maybe make her less linear? Her mu spread was fine. 

I can the changes both making her less boring and giving unused moves some actual use. Being able to dash cancel the first two hits to rekka gives her more options midscreen and give it more of a purpose than just guard break pressure. 214K’s overhead was barely use so trading that for what is basically Ky’s Fourde Arc was a better option. Calvados as an overdrive was irrelevant with how much better Mortobato is. Giving it guard break for the final hit means Ram can now recall swords without having to be punished for using it. Although it’s slow startup means Ram players still can’t just throw it out, the change seems intended for it to be more useful in general.

 

I don’t see the changes as to make Ram better (although giving more options usually does), but more to have her be more than just S and HS into corner.

Edited October 25, 2021 by BornWinner

[Vhozite]

Yeah I’m ok with Ram’s buffs if they’re gonna be doing similar things for other characters.  She is IMO the most well designed character rn 

[Gasarocky]

2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Jesus Christ Millia is so fun but losing with her is so frustrating. Feels like every game I do well until I lose 75% to one counter hit confirm and then get bodied by the next mixup. I’m not complaining about dying to mix because setplay it Millia’s whole game, but Jesus she is made of wet paper. I fought Goldlewis for the first time and was legit dying in like 4-5 touches. Not only that but Winger has to be one of the worst reversal supers in the game. 
 

Don't forget Goldlewis literally has more consistent high damage than even Sol and Nago. His damage is insane on everyone.

 

Agreed on the Ram stuff. Same for Nago clone as well actually, the issue there is they just way over buffed it. 

 

And some of the weaker characters still need more solid stuff as well.

 

Hoping they'll reconsider the damage soon too. Increasing scaling on some moves hasn't been enough

[ZioSerpe]

2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

 

I also feel like slash top is getting me into trouble. It does no damage, sends the opponent full screen, extremely minus on block, and Millia has CH property for the entire duration (see above). It’s decent as a whiff punish because of its speed and high profile but really I feel like I don’t actually get anything of value from this move outside of the corner. Ironic since it’s the whole reason I picked her up. 
 

 

Yu can use it neutral in most MUs to deny space, and of course it gives decent mix when RCed

[Vhozite]

18 minutes ago, Gasarocky said:

Agreed on the Ram stuff. Same for Nago clone as well actually, the issue there is they just way over buffed it. 

 

And some of the weaker characters still need more solid stuff as well.

 

Hoping they'll reconsider the damage soon too. Increasing scaling on some moves hasn't been enough

See I don’t really like saying that they’re overbuffed just yet. I think their power level (they being Nago/Ram)  is where the game should be. They feel like complete, well rounded characters. Game would be way more fun if every character was a robust as them. 
 

Im not sure how I feel about the damage. I think it needs to be toned slightly, but it’s hard to tell you really hits too hard when my characters dies in two confirms to every character anyway.

Edit: The only character I think 100% needs a damage nerf is Ram. She does way too much damage for how oppressive her corner pressure is.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Vhozite

[Gasarocky]

3 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

See I don’t really like saying that they’re overbuffed just yet. I think their power level (they being Nago/Ram)  is where the game should be. They feel like complete, well rounded characters. Game would be way more fun if every character was a robust as them. 
 

Im not sure how I feel about the damage. I think it needs to be toned slightly, but it’s hard to tell you really hits too hard when my characters dies in two confirms to every character anyway.

No I mean specifically clone was overbuffed.

 

They decreased the startup, made it have a high clash level so it deletes most other projectiles(meaning it can be used on reaction), increased the projectile speed so you can punish people really far away AND use it as oki after fSSS, AND even made it full screen.

 

Nago is mostly where most characters should be, I agree, but clone is now so good it's started to overshadow spin. It's THAT crazy.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Gasarocky

[Vhozite]

21 minutes ago, Gasarocky said:

No I mean specifically clone was overbuffed.

 

They decreased the startup, made it have a high clash level so it deletes most other projectiles(meaning it can be used on reaction), increased the projectile speed so you can punish people really far away AND use it as oki after fSSS, AND even made it full screen.

 

Nago is mostly where most characters should be, I agree, but clone is now so good it's started to overshadow spin. It's THAT crazy.

Oh yeah clone was already amazing when I was using him at launch. Absolutely no reason it needed to be buffed lol.

[Sonero]

2 hours ago, Gasarocky said:

No I mean specifically clone was overbuffed.

 

Clone is super scrubby now. About Sol levels of scrubby. You can literally just YOLO it and things will be fine.

 

But that kinda feels like the vast majority of Nago's offense. Think I tried to challegne some gaps, or what felt like gaps, and I just died for all of it the other day. I'm kinda fine with some of it but boy its brutal.