The Guilty Gear general: Getting Wildly Assaulted in the Keyhole

[Sonero]

Oh his Steady Aim shot gonna make a dude pause. He gets the orange sights on you and shit changes real quick.

 

You don't wanna get let him get a counterhit when he is in dirty Harry stance. I just haven't seen it be a dedicated gameplan. Although he has the tools to really be hard to touch. Think him playing runaway might be really viable. Specially because his regular jump is really high. Feels like Jack-o high.

[BornWinner]

 

[Phantom_Miria]

 

[Phantom_Miria]

5 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

 

 

[Gasarocky]

8 hours ago, Sonero said:

I don't know about him having real zoning, but he is one squirely fucker. In a few weeks, when people really figure out how good he is at moving away from people, it is going to be a damned pain in the ass to land a hit on him.

 

 

He doesn't necessarily have zoning per say.  What he does have though is a bunch of skill tools. They aren't beyblade or Nago clone obvious. They are "If you spend 6 hours in training mode you'll find all sorts of ways to make your opponent's life a massive pain in the ass" level of things.

I disagree, check out players like Gobou, he DOES have real zoning. Making them block steady aim fire gives you time to toss curse/focus/reload, and clone make people have to approach by air. It takes setting up and a lot of smart management but he absolutely can zone for real.

 

Steady Fire with Curse applied is really hard to deal with for a lot of characters from range, and he can keep doing it forever if you don't push in at some point, but that can open you up to getting hit. And then if he's behind clone, he can often poke or fire with impunity behind it. Multi hit moves beat it of course, but it's still pretty strong regardless. 

[Gasarocky]

 

Definitely not trying to imply it'll always work out perfectly like this, but he definitely can zone for real.

 

 

[Vhozite]

I gotta say from a pure design standpoint I’m really not a fan of the clone costing hp. Like this character already has to manage two resources and has probably the worst defense in the game, yet you still need to literally tax his hp bar every time he uses one specific move. 
 

If he is anything other that top 3 tier I’m gonna be disappointed. All those limitations he better be fucking juiced once someone figures him out.

[Sonero]

26 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I gotta say from a pure design standpoint I’m really not a fan of the clone costing hp.

 

If it didn't cost something that move would be dumb AF.

 

It needed to cost something. Oppose costs a lot of meter if it goes all the way through. So it probably needed to cost something and they didn't want to overly tax concentration.

 

 

[BornWinner]

When Chaos has no health to spend, it becomes obvious why Scapegoat takes health in the first place. Him spamming the clone can be a nightmare. Especially given the properties of it.

 

 

I don’t think tying it to concentration would’ve been better balance if you can just use Focus or Super Focus to get it back with no worry.

[Gasarocky]

Yeah, the health cost makes a lot of sense. It's honestly doesn't feel expensive to me

[Sonero]

This is Vhozite though. This man complained about an S tier character after his shit got buffed.

 

Man could get head from a chick with big titties and complain that she didn't have 3 titties instead of the standard two.

 

Spoiled ass kids, I swear.

[Pair of Rooks]

5 hours ago, Vhozite said:

I gotta say from a pure design standpoint I’m really not a fan of the clone costing hp. Like this character already has to manage two resources and has probably the worst defense in the game, yet you still need to literally tax his hp bar every time he uses one specific move. 
 

If he is anything other that top 3 tier I’m gonna be disappointed. All those limitations he better be fucking juiced once someone figures him out.

I'm not a fan of all the resources management either.  I just wanna blithely zone, not do calculus.

 

I don't even track Ky's shock state. It's just so very ignorable, I ignore it hard.

[Vhozite]

6 hours ago, Sonero said:

 

If it didn't cost something that move would be dumb AF.

I know and I agree. What I’m saying is that Oppose needs to cost *something* and they couldn’t make it work between the two unique resources and universal meter the character already has. To me that says his resource system is poorly designed since he presumably can’t fully function inside it, and/or that oppose is straight up stupid and probably shouldn’t exist in its current state.

 

Either way, hp costs are dumb because its very easy to “pay” without being meaningfully hindered. The clip from above of HC vs Sol is a textbook example. HC loses a sizeable chunk of hp from abusing Oppose, but that never actually matters because he spends the whole round cucking Sol with it and he is never in any danger of be punished for dumping HP. He wins without being touched. It’s the same concept that typically balancing characters via different health values ineffectual. Conversely, HC is forced to actively manage his other two resources and change what he does on the fly throughout the match because its more difficult/impossible avoid the repercussions of overspending his other resources. 

 

In a word, if a move is so OP that you “fix” it by killing the user, it really should cost something other than health.

Edit: just remembered Oppose is Zato’s move but fuck it it’s 2AM y’all know what move I’m talking about 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

6 hours ago, Vhozite said:

I know and I agree. What I’m saying is that Oppose needs to cost *something* and they couldn’t make it work between the two unique resources and universal meter the character already has. To me that says his resource system is poorly designed since he presumably can’t fully function inside it, and/or that oppose is straight up stupid and probably shouldn’t exist in its current state.

 

Think you gotta watch some footage of him in action. He functions very well with it. But Clone is the only thing he has on defense. You can bop that super for free in multiple ways; the thing has 0 invincibility. So he gets to have Clone. Since it can be used to wall people up in the corner (and they probably didn't want that to be his main gameplan).  they probably looked at concentration/bullets to see if they could fit it there and it just didn't.

 

At least he is committing a resource into something. Zato doing oppose and then clapping Eddie back makes it so I get spam discounts on Morton's. My character doesn't really have to respect clones too much (and that Sol player probably didn't know fully what he was playing against). So they probably look at lot stronger than they are in that one highlight.

 

Still though they take up physical space and you gotta either hit them once or jump over them.

[Darc_Requiem]

Let the memes begin.....

 

[Vhozite]

Took two minutes in the lab for me to figure out Happy Chaos is too complicated for me. That said, he’s still really cool and I don’t actually regret buying him like I do Jack-O.

 

If I can get some time to play this week I plan on giving Nago or Ram another try. I like Ram a bit more overall but if I can be totally shallow I don’t like how common she is. That and Nago just oozes cool. 

[Vhozite]

Man I’m really struggling trying to move with Nago it’s like night and day coming Millia.

 

Edit: I’m a moron I forgot about beyblade

 

Edit 2: Had a good night with Nago once I started remembering what his moves did. Still finding it hard to stay moving with him but as I got better managing blood I felt more comfortable using his dash. 
 

Gonna try Ram tomorrow

Edited December 6, 2021 by Vhozite

[Darc_Requiem]

Man this dude is literally crying with happiness over the Baiken reveal...... 👀

[Dragonfave723]

Baiken is coming.

 

[Pair of Rooks]

3 minutes ago, Dragonfave723 said:

Baiken is coming

...and so will you.  😂

 

[Pair of Rooks]

5 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Man this dude is literally crying with happiness over the Baiken reveal...... 👀

or having a heart attack, I wasn't sure which 😂

[Jocelot]

I was not expecting Baiken. Fun surprise for me for sure. But I'll stick with my guy Happy Chaos for now 

[Shahenzan]

Well gg players it's been a fun ride but the fun stops here

It is strive players turn to understand why no one who plays these games likes baiken 😔

[Sonero]

Yay....guard cancels....

 

FML.

 

Every move has hella frames. No way she is gonna be on AC+R nonsense in this game.

[Pair of Rooks]

31 minutes ago, Shahenzan said:

Well gg players it's been a fun ride but the fun stops here

It is strive players turn to understand why no one who plays these games likes baiken 😔

Same was said for jacko but she's basically a non-entity.

 

Everyone's toned down to reasonable levels in Strive.

 

[Gasarocky]

5 hours ago, Sonero said:

Yay....guard cancels....

 

FML.

 

Every move has hella frames. No way she is gonna be on AC+R nonsense in this game.

Yeah, if she even has guard cancels. Even Anji totally lost traditional guard points. 

 

I bet she'll have like one stance she can do it off, otherwise they'd have to slow them down like crazy to fit in Strive since we can't just JC most things.

[Vhozite]

Dammit I wouldn’t have even bothered buying Happy Chaos if I knew Baiken  was coming this soon I feel like been scammed lol 

 

Still happy to see her come to the game though. Curious to see how she will change.

 

Edit: Baiken reveal also means Slayer is now much more likely bc leaks

Edited December 6, 2021 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

You didn't buy the shill pass?

 

Also making Slayer the last character is dirty AF. Should've left Tits McGee for last.

[Vhozite]

24 minutes ago, Sonero said:

You didn't buy the shill pass?

 

Also making Slayer the last character is dirty AF. Should've left Tits McGee for last.

Nah I’m done buying DLC without 100% confirmation of what I’m getting. Nothing against Arc Sys but I’ve been burned on that too many times. They may have had a chance on me buying the pass if I knew Baiken was in off the jump. 

[-PVL93-]

Slayer coming last establishes and completes the male female male pattern at least. Also having 2 new and 3 vets in a season is a good balance for a fighting game season pass 

[Vhozite]

DLC announcements aside I’m hype to play more Nago tonight. Piping down people with level 3 HS buttons is *chefs kiss*

[Pair of Rooks]

Despite playing Strive most every chance I get I still haven't bought any dlc.  Not really avoiding it, just haven't gotten there yet. 

 

I lost interest in Jackie when I learned her houses wouldn't be doing my job for me, and did she really need a meter? Happy Chaos's negative edge stuff is enough of a barrier to avoid him (I'm on pad), so, I don't know about boobzilla either.  I just want to know what the mechanics are going to be.  I saw in SamSho she has a hookshot a la Smash4 Link, so, maybe?

 

[Vhozite]

14 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Despite playing Strive most every chance I get I still haven't bought any dlc.  Not really avoiding it, just haven't gotten there yet.

 

I ask this is in the nicest way possible, but can you play Ky and not be bored out of your mind?

[Sonero]

Ky is super solid right now. Not really sure what would be boring about the character.

[Hawkingbird]

Honest characters are boring. He doesn't have any dumb shit he can exploit like pot's Garuda loops. 

[Volt]

Fuck all that, when's the Story DLC?

[Sonero]

52 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

He doesn't have any dumb shit he can exploit like pot's Garuda loops. 

 

Floor 7 hot takes.

[Vhozite]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

Ky is super solid right now. Not really sure what would be boring about the character.

Oh he’s definitely good…but he is just boring to look at I guess? 
 

Like he does nothing interesting. Fireballs that are as plain as possible, Shock State is laughably basic, super generic specials, very middling sword buttons. You could not make a more generic FG character. I would unironically play SFV Ryu with 0 changes over Ky in Strive to not die of boredom.

 

Edit: I feel the same way about Sol. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Vhozite

[Volt]

14 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Oh he’s definitely good…but he is just boring to look at I guess? 
 

Like he does nothing interesting. Fireballs that are as plain as possible, Shock State is laughably basic, super generic specials, very middling sword buttons. You could not make a more generic FG character. I would unironically play SFV Ryu with 0 changes over Ky in Strive to not die of boredom.

 

Edit: I feel the same way about Sol. 

Ky is so lame that even I don't wanna play him.

 

Just let that sink in.

[Sonero]

20 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

 

Like he does nothing interesting. Fireballs that are as plain as possible, Shock State is laughably basic, super generic specials, very middling sword buttons. You could not make a more generic FG character. I would unironically play SFV Ryu with 0 changes over Ky in Strive to not die of boredom.

 

Now that they fixed his fireballs, the character became a real flaming pain in the ass. The thing about shockstate too is that it doesn't do a lot until you're at the wrong end of Foundre Arc. Dude is gonna play neutral and then force his way in like a SWAT team at the wrong house.

 

His flip kick is a pain in the ass to anti air, stun dipper is a 5 frame low that hits from 6 miles away and RCs into ruining your day and when he gets a forward throw he'll get a meaty H fireball that makes you hold 3 different mixes into more pressure.

 

His throw game is very underrated too. Because its throw + chip damage from H fireball + him building meter on block + w/e silly chip damage nonsense he does. Hell he can chill back a bit and just randomly jump in with foundre arc. That thing will anti air you if you try to jump out and you're either eating fat damage or holding plus frames into strike throw back to H fireball with shock state.

 

Also doesn't help that as soon as he has 50 meter, you're gonna hold your butthole tight. He'll either hitconfirm midscreen into a super that takes you to a wall break or random 5 frame stun dipper your ankles off and make you take a ride to the corner.

 

If you don't think Ky is a pain in the flaming ass, you're not playing good Kys (rhetorical you, not you persay Vhoz).

[Gasarocky]

2 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Despite playing Strive most every chance I get I still haven't bought any dlc.  Not really avoiding it, just haven't gotten there yet. 

 

I lost interest in Jackie when I learned her houses wouldn't be doing my job for me, and did she really need a meter? Happy Chaos's negative edge stuff is enough of a barrier to avoid him (I'm on pad), so, I don't know about boobzilla either.  I just want to know what the mechanics are going to be.  I saw in SamSho she has a hookshot a la Smash4 Link, so, maybe?

 

You don't need negative edge combos on pad. I play pad too, you can just tap. You also don't need hyper optimal combos in the first place with him

Edited December 6, 2021 by Gasarocky

[Darc_Requiem]

26 minutes ago, Volt said:

Fuck all that, when's the Story DLC?

You must of missed it. I posted that earlier 👀

 

 

[Vhozite]

@Soneroi was fighting a Ky yesterday getting my pockets ran and he was for real getting on my nerves with Stun Dipper. I can jab Foudre Arc pretty consistently in a good connection but Stun Dipper RC was super fucking annoying. 

[Volt]

40 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

You must of missed it. I posted that earlier 👀

 

 

I've seen that.

 

They made sure to put the best part in with Axl getting his girl back. 😭

[Hawkingbird]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Floor 7 hot takes.

That's floor 10. 

[Pair of Rooks]

8 hours ago, Vhozite said:

I ask this is in the nicest way possible, but can you play Ky and not be bored out of your mind?

Cause all-rounders with lots of moves force me to play against different archtypes wildly differently. Like, pick a move to spam and pick a move to ignore levels of different. Win conditions change around a lot. I like that variety of play that I wouldn't get from fishing for Ram's corner nonsense for the zillionth time regardless of opponent.

 

I don't choose characters on looks, though I do avoid a few on looks. Past ten years I'm favoring all-rounders with a slight zoning emphasis.

 

I'm also a busy dad so I don't have much time to learn truly unique characters. 

 

A2A aerial gatlings into juggle air fireballs or aerial super are dope.

[-PVL93-]

12 hours ago, Volt said:

They made sure to put the best part in with Axl getting his girl back.

real shit - Axl and I-no actually being lovers from different timelines was a mindblowing but also heartbreaking twist of events. I'm glad that my suspicions about this being the case back in Rev2 story weren't false. 

[Pair of Rooks]

I got VIP. 

 

I also unwittingly appeared on Kizzie Kay's stream and subsequent YouTube video as a victim of goomba stomp lols.

 

So any new levels of respect y'all were gonna show me can just be cancelled out now, thx.

 

[Volt]

22 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Cause all-rounders with lots of moves force me to play against different archtypes wildly differently. Like, pick a move to spam and pick a move to ignore levels of different. Win conditions change around a lot. I like that variety of play that I wouldn't get from fishing for Ram's corner nonsense for the zillionth time regardless of opponent.

 

I don't choose characters on looks, though I do avoid a few on looks. Past ten years I'm favoring all-rounders with a slight zoning emphasis.

 

I'm also a busy dad so I don't have much time to learn truly unique characters. 

 

A2A aerial gatlings into juggle air fireballs or aerial super are dope.

Perfectly said, nothing but raw ass facts. 👍

[Sonero]