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The Sonic Thread: Before the Shadow takeover begins, we must knuck when we buck. Knuckles series releases April 26.


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4 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Without losing their loved ones? Lol wtf?

He's referencing the comic which is what his first post is in reference to.    Issue 24 was in the middle of the Metal Virus saga where characters were dropping off to being infected and Whisper (the character above) lost a friend to the infected in the issue.

 

Edit

 

Speaking of the comic, I just finished reading the latest issue and I'm really liking Surge lol.  I liked her before and she was giving some Juri vibes but now she's just leaning more into it and I dig it.

Edited by Sonichuman
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8 hours ago, Reiraku said:

Glad they brought Whisper back. She needs to be featured more often

Seeing Whisper be done in her fight was great.  She still got mopped understandably but still.

Edit:  Scrapnik Island side comic starts this month as a reminder.  Been seeing people say issue 1 releases in about 2 weeks.

Edited by Sonichuman
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2 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

Seeing how Ian is writing for the games now I wonder if any of his comic creations will make the jump.

SoJ is really weird about characters that they themselves didn't have a hand in making and I'd imagine that BS that happened with Penders did not help matters.  They're more involved in the IDW comic in terms of mandates and giving the artists and story tellers the boundaries that they can move within but I would not expect any of the comic characters to make it in any of the games UNLESS...Ian's execution of the story is so great and Frontiers both is both received well critically and does really well financially for them.  At that point I'd imagine Sega would probably go "Ok Ian what else do you got for us?".  He'd probably start getting a bit more wiggle room on what he can do but even then I wouldn't expect the opportunity of comic characters to happen until maybe a 3rd Ian game...so we're talking like close to probably a decade potentially from now.

 

To put it in perspective, despite how many fans Sally Acorn still has to this day from Satam, she's still barely recognized as a character from SoJ. 

 

All that being said though...there is a very small glimmer of hope on this because both Whisper and Tangle showed up as being playable characters in the Mobile games.

 

 

Supposedly the reason that both those 2 were able to show up in the mobile games is because this isn't a Penders issue and they actually own the characters that show up in the comics.  So...who knows?  Maybe they may actually show up in a mainline game sooner than we think? 

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10 minutes ago, Reiraku said:

I know it's wishful thinking, but give us a full on game with multiple characters from the newer series like SA1. Have a Whisper story, Tangle, even Belle.

Let's not delve into that quite yet first....Let's see how Frontiers lands first and then we can go from there.  Iizuka did say that he wants to to do SA3 and this game could be the groundwork for that but I want them to get Sonic right first before anything else.

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Just now, Reiraku said:

Hey, I can dream!

Nothing wrong with dreaming.  I wants multiple characters to return to cause I stand by that Sonic's friends were never the problem, it's always been the execution of the characters.  I want them to bring the other characters back too but they need to get Sonic in 3D straight first.

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I....can't co-sign that...like at all. Sonic has mostly good stages, Tails sucks being almost all rrally lame retreads of Sonics stages, Amy sucks, Big sucks, Knuckles is alright, final chapter is cool....

 

I don't thinknits bad like plenty of people will claim but it's not even close to one of the best Sonic games imo. 

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Didn't care for the Knuckles or Amy stages in SA1, Sonic, Tails and Gamma were fun tho. Game was great for its time but it has not aged gracefully at all

 

I still haven't til this day played Sonic Adventure 2,ironically 

 

As for Sonic Frontier, just stick to Sonic and/or Tails gettin levels. I don't trust Sega at this point, and I trust them even less with more non-traditional levels. Let's get Sonic's gameplay right before we go experimenting again 

Edited by HD-Man
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14 hours ago, RSG3 said:

I....can't co-sign that...like at all. Sonic has mostly good stages, Tails sucks being almost all rrally lame retreads of Sonics stages, Amy sucks, Big sucks, Knuckles is alright, final chapter is cool....

 

I don't thinknits bad like plenty of people will claim but it's not even close to one of the best Sonic games imo. 

Sonic's stages were good. Tails I enjoyed because of his different mechanics and you had to actually run them faster by design. Amy's were good, but not great. Knuckles could use the improved radar from 2, but having Tikal guide you worked just as well. Big needs to go in the trash. Gamma was fun as hell.

 

I am going fully admit my bias here, because it happens to be my favorite Sonic game, I do think it falls behind S3&K. I'd put it just ahead of 2 and SA2 for sure though.

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Apparently Sega goofed and uploaded a new Frontiers overview trailer up too early?  It got taken down shortly after it got put up but...you know...the internet.  So someone put up what they had put before

 

I don't know what they're going to fix in the official reupload but you can at least see what was they had put up prior.

 

edit

up officially again

 

Edited by Sonichuman
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5 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Why are people still torturing themselves with that fucking game?

He's actually approaching the game a bit differently which he gives with his thesis in the beginning.  Its more so about the game and everything surrounding it from what I've listened to so far.  What the game means to him when he first played it in the past, how the stigma of this game still lingers around the franchise up to now, and how its "legacy" may effect the future.  Might be a bit off on the future bit but that's what I got from it.

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4 hours ago, Sonichuman said:

King K put up a retrospective for Sonic 06

 

I'm just about done with this and yea it's more a retrospective then a fresh play and analysis. As usual with KingK I'm on board till his conclusions where he tends to make slightly hyperbolic statements. 

 

Like his whining about dudes like me not liking Sonic's friends. It's not that I don't like them, in fact I like them a lot, it's that they are not fucking fun to play. Like he kind of annoyed me because he's like "People now think Sonics friends are stupid and should go away even tho they've been getting added since Sonic 2" yea well in Sonic 2 and 3K Tails and Knucks are fucking Sonic with slightly different stats (top speed, jump hight) and 1 gimmick to set them apart. Otherwise they play Sonics stages 90% like Sonic does. When we go to 3D Tails get to replay Sonics stages but with lame boost gates to skip 50% of the stage, or Kuckles Treasure Hunt where you have a car door ajar bell dinging in your fucking ears for what can last up to a fucking hour if you're unlucky. Amy is pretty forgettable and no one like Big the Cat and fishing. I'd rather fish in a Zelda game. Or the Mech stages in 2 that aren't fun. I never played Heroes but it looked to get it ok since everyone's the same with minor differences to justify their place in the game. 

 

And that's really the problem. Sonic Team rarely has good reasons for these other characters to be playable, and the gameplay shows it. 

 

So it's not that we hate his friends. His friends are fine, it's that Sonic Team can not come up with gameplay to justify their playability and it drags the entire game down. KingK whines about people throwing out all of Sonic Unleashed (which is a pretty bullshit statement in and of itself considering the worl modders put in to porting those stages to Generations) over the Wherehog but conveniently doesn't mention the Wherehog is like 50% of the experience and has the longest fucking stages and NO ONE liked them. Not even Sonic fans. So you get the 5 minute long awesome Speed stage and then an hour of terrible fucking melee combat and platforming. Yea I wonder why that game was only kinda liked by people. 

 

Sonics friends are fine, it's justifying their gameplay that's the issue. 

 

Also lulz at "I don't need Frontiers I have Xenoblade!" Like you don't need a Platformer because you have a JRPG? Whatever bro lol. 

 

"If you think Sonic 06 was broken fundamentals you should play this mod, the stages where already good so they just had to tweak the characters."

 

Are characters and how they control in a platformer not a fundamental system? He says weird stuff sometimes lol. 

Edited by RSG3
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I haven't finished listening to it yet since I was trying to listen to it while I was work but then I started getting busy (currently at about 1/5...and would have been listening to it currently if not for the fact that my son is at the age where he wants to treat his father like a jungle gym).  I don't always agree with King K (or Geek Critique which is also a pretty good youtuber for Sonic listening to sonic content and retrospectives)  but I do usually like how they explain themselves and why they feel that way.   That comment regarding Xenoblade is def weird though since they aren't even en the same genre.

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4 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

Don't let my post color your opinion heh. 

 

I think SomeCallMeJohnny is my favorite Youtuber who talks about Sonic relatively frequently. 

I recently picked him up upon Hecatom mentioning him some time ago.  He'd always been floating around in my feed now and then but I never really watched/listened to any of his videos then I just went on a whole binging spree for the past few months.

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2 minutes ago, Sonichuman said:

I recently picked him up upon Hecatom mentioning him some time ago.  He'd always been floating around in my feed now and then but I never really watched/listened to any of his videos then I just went on a whole binging spree for the past few months.

I think he has one if the most even handed opinions on the internet. 

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25 minutes ago, RSG3 said:

I think he has one if the most even handed opinions on the internet. 

As long as people can explain their opinions  in a decent manner on why they think a certain way even if it feels contrarian then its a better for me to understand where they come from on stuff.  Its one of the reasons I like listening to Cosmonaut even though I don't agree with him either all the time either (The lighthouse is weird AF movie and it is not a masterpiece).

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13 hours ago, RSG3 said:

I'm just about done with this and yea it's more a retrospective then a fresh play and analysis. As usual with KingK I'm on board till his conclusions where he tends to make slightly hyperbolic statements. 

 

Like his whining about dudes like me not liking Sonic's friends. It's not that I don't like them, in fact I like them a lot, it's that they are not fucking fun to play. Like he kind of annoyed me because he's like "People now think Sonics friends are stupid and should go away even tho they've been getting added since Sonic 2" yea well in Sonic 2 and 3K Tails and Knucks are fucking Sonic with slightly different stats (top speed, jump hight) and 1 gimmick to set them apart. Otherwise they play Sonics stages 90% like Sonic does. When we go to 3D Tails get to replay Sonics stages but with lame boost gates to skip 50% of the stage, or Kuckles Treasure Hunt where you have a car door ajar bell dinging in your fucking ears for what can last up to a fucking hour if you're unlucky. Amy is pretty forgettable and no one like Big the Cat and fishing. I'd rather fish in a Zelda game. Or the Mech stages in 2 that aren't fun. I never played Heroes but it looked to get it ok since everyone's the same with minor differences to justify their place in the game. 

 

And that's really the problem. Sonic Team rarely has good reasons for these other characters to be playable, and the gameplay shows it. 

 

So it's not that we hate his friends. His friends are fine, it's that Sonic Team can not come up with gameplay to justify their playability and it drags the entire game down. KingK whines about people throwing out all of Sonic Unleashed (which is a pretty bullshit statement in and of itself considering the worl modders put in to porting those stages to Generations) over the Wherehog but conveniently doesn't mention the Wherehog is like 50% of the experience and has the longest fucking stages and NO ONE liked them. Not even Sonic fans. So you get the 5 minute long awesome Speed stage and then an hour of terrible fucking melee combat and platforming. Yea I wonder why that game was only kinda liked by people. 

 

Sonics friends are fine, it's justifying their gameplay that's the issue. 

 

Also lulz at "I don't need Frontiers I have Xenoblade!" Like you don't need a Platformer because you have a JRPG? Whatever bro lol. 

 

"If you think Sonic 06 was broken fundamentals you should play this mod, the stages where already good so they just had to tweak the characters."

 

Are characters and how they control in a platformer not a fundamental system? He says weird stuff sometimes lol. 

I finished watching the vid and I think you may have taken his comment regarding sonic's friends out of context.  He said one of the things he enjoys is playing with the other characters so when he then said "but we as a group at this point started to feel that Sonic's friends were the problem"  he was being sarcastic and talking about those who groaned everytime a new character was introduced or just hated almost all of the extended cast at this point.

 

The Xenoblade and Frontiers statement wasn't completely hyperbolic sense I kinda see what he was trying to say even though it was a bit clumsy.  He was talking about feeling jaded over the franchise at that point after Forces got released and how a lot of Sonic's stories were watered down and he wasn't getting what he wanted from the series currently.  And with Frontiers coming out and looking Open World and seemingly like a less story driven focused experience he's saying he could get that same open feeling if he wanted from Xenoblade.  Not really the best comparison but I get it. 

 

The whole future section is filled with jadedness and negativity that's just been building up over time and he's just not sure if Frontiers is going to scratch the itch he wants for a Sonic game with a bit more engaging story with some stakes to it.  When he was going over this I was about to say "What about Ian?" and he addresses that he's aware of him.  I mean I get it, I don't 100% agree but I get it.  I've been reading Ian's stuff for awhile now so I'm more optimistic on that aspect plus we've barely seen much of any story beats and we haven't even see the Eggman cutscene that we've read about.  There's just still a lot of unknowns regarding the game and given the franchise's recent track record, I can in no way tell someone that this game is going to change everything with confidence.  I just can't.  So I understand where his feelings are coming from on this.

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