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The One Piece Thread: Gear 4th!!!

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

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So Kaido acted like a monster to force someone to come along and have to get strong enough to beat him, because it would take someone that strong to overturn the order of the world?  Except we know that Kaido acknowledges a few people who were already at that level, and they were all content to let Kaido keep on doing bad shit, so Idk.

 

Is Kaido supposed to be redeemable?  Like, I get the child soldier origin story leaving him fucked up, but the balance of what he went on to do is so much worse that I don't think his origin mitigates any of it.  But he probably isn't dead, and unlike Doflamingo prison isn't going to be able to hold him.  We do know he's tried to kill himself a few times, but he's never managed to find a way, and honestly that being how he goes out seems a little darker than OP usually rolls.

 

So... is someone going to come along and coup-de-grace Kaido while he's down?  There are a few people left standing that would both want revenge and are actually strong enough to harm him.  Aside from that- I have to recognize that this would be a really fucking opportune time Blackbeard to just pop up out of nowhere, and do to a wounded Kaido what he did to a dying Whitebeard...

 

Edited by Reticently
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*.:White ShadoW:.* Level 9

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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4 hours ago, Sacr3D said:

Now that you guys mention it, I kinda don't get Kaido's motivations or why he's in wano yet.

Spoiler

Kaido followed a "Might makes right" philosophy. After the countless wars he was made to fight in as a child soldier, as well as his subsequent betrayal by his own nation after all his sacrifices he essentially became a nihilist who believed that what constitutes right or wrong means nothing without the strength to back up your ideology.  This mentality was shown to be reinforced by Kurozumi, whose manipulations made him remain in Wano to fuel the events that lead to Oden's demise and Orochi's rise to power. I believe his suicidal tendencies rose from his acceptance that maybe this "Joyboy" of legend was just a myth and that he did live in a meaningless, unforgiving world after all... he sought meaning and in its absence developed a belief that the only thing that matters is power. 

 

He also didn't just attempt suicide directly, but also intentionally set up events to bring about his own potential defeat. He tested the mettle of Momonosuke during the attack of Oden's castle by throwing him off the balcony instead of easily snapping his neck, with the hopes that he could one day avenge his father. He even showed visible disappointment when Momo didn't show the same resolve his father did as Momo was instead bawling in fear. Same goes for when Kurozumi Higurashi used the Mane Mane no Mi to pretend to be Momo, or when the CP-0 agent interloped in his fight against Luffy. In both cases he killed them for ruining his dream.

 

This is why he was amassing and selling weapons to create a "world war" to end all wars. He felt that since there's nothing to stop him, there's no point for anything to remain anyway. At least he can enjoy potentially dying in a blaze of glory along the way.

As to why Kaido wasn't challenged by the other Yonko even though he showed that there were definitely contemporaries in his league, it boils down to character motivations— i.e. Dreams.

Whitebeard  never cared about ruling the seas, or One Piece, he achieved his dream which was to have a family and to protect his family. Once that was achieved Newgate didn't really care about saving anyone, unless they entered his zone of protection. The fact that he was also a member of the Rocks pirates also meant Kaido already had a mutual respect for him an knew his motivations. He was never the Joyboy he imagined.

 

Big Mom wanted to created a world where all races lived in peace and harmony, basically literally inheriting  the dream and ability from Mother Carmel to do so. She also was too avaricious to any hero and is too familiar with Kaido.

 

Now Shanks is the biggest contender, but as we've known from chapter 1 aka Romance Dawn, that he bet all his cards on Luffy being the heir apparent to fulfill Roger's dream. He probably predicted the events and just waited for them to come to fruition, hence why he looked at Luffy's bounty and proclaimed that they're now approaching the moment when they'll finally meet. Kaido puts Shanks in the same pantheon as Roger, Whitebeard, and his former captain Xebec D. Rocks, so it's interesting what his past interactions were like with him.
 

And now for my thoughts on this chapter:

 

Spoiler

Kaido may have lost in predictable fashion, but it still was nice and cathartic to see after so many years of hype. The Toon Force dragon-shaped hole Kaido created was also funny. That said I predictThe consequence of Luffy expending an ungodly amount of haki to both maintain Gear 5th and do his final attack might incredibly detrimental. Luffy might go into an Odin Sleep-like coma that lasts weeks or even months. This would at least give time for some long exposition regarding the blowback from the defeat of a Yonkou.

 

I also agree that  this is a perfect time for Svartbeard, especially since he's is the biggest opportunist out of any OP character. All the allies are weakened Kaido and Luffy will be vulnerable , plus there's a bunch of weapons and Smiles everywhere to plunder and even resell. 

 

 

 

That was more typing than I'm used to.😅

Edited by *.:White ShadoW:.*
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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

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7 hours ago, Wellman said:

1050

 

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Did Oda just kill off Kaido and Big Mom?

 

I mean they could survive but that scene showing them in the lava makes me wonder if it will happen.

 

Spoiler

On the one hand, that answers my question about what to do with Kaido after he lost.

 

On the other hand, both of them getting driven down through the ground to metaphorical Hell seems a little much for something getting shown after the fact.  Especially in Big Mom's case.  Feels like an idea that Oda had only after the fights were already ended.

 

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*.:White ShadoW:.* Level 9

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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 It's crazy that both Yonko are still likely alive stewing in magma while unconscious, and then violently thrown from the eruption to who knows where.

 

What's really surprising is that I expected Luffy to look like a husk of human being after expending so much haki and physical stamina. He merely passed out from the exchange. 

Meanwhile Zoro actually looks like he's on the verge of death.

 

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That said, post-Arc chapters are probably the most exciting world-building we see in One Piece, but these post-Wano arc exposition chapters will be the most important in Oda's career IMO. The tonal shift and narrative logic needs to be clarified for all the fans and it seems like a lot of work. Oda has to explain how the Gorosei could've overlooked or been lackadaisical about Luffy being in possession of the "Most Ridiculous Power" in the series, and why they only felt like desparately acting now despite fearing its awakening the last dozen chapters. Oda has to explain how Shanks is collaborating with the Gorosei and how it's logically mutually beneficial for both of them. If Oda just focuses on the aftermath without coherently explaining at least the first point, it might be an issue for many fans.

 

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

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2 hours ago, *.:White ShadoW:.* said:

What's really surprising is that I expected Luffy to look like a husk of human being after expending so much haki and physical stamina

I take it that the withered look was still part of being in cartoon-mode Gear 5, rather than a literal representation of what was happening to his body.

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*.:White ShadoW:.* Level 9

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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18 hours ago, Reticently said:

I take it that the withered look was still part of being in cartoon-mode Gear 5, rather than a literal representation of what was happening to his body.

I thought that too initially, but both he and Kaido mentioned that he seemed on the verge of death, so I took the fatigue and the fact he had to re-summon the form mid-match as a portent of an extreme physical consequence later. I won't dismiss that possibility since everything Luffy is doing now in Gear 5 is completely unprecedented.

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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Honestly didn't like this one. It is necessary and shows the climax with Momo taking the throne but damn it basically showed nothing new. But it could be me dreading the day in it is animated and they splice in a larger amount of flashbacks plus crowd reactions so it takes an episode run time. Hope next chapter we get more WG or Strawhats related plot.

 

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

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Chapters like this aren't super entertaining, but they are needed to make everything else fall in place to set up the next narrative.

 

I did enjoy Yamato's announcement of joining the crew.  Gotta wait to see if Oda follows through on it, but the monster trio is becoming the monster quintet.  Aside from Luffy, I can't really tell who the next strongest member of the crew is going to be.

 

The good news is now the stuff in this chapter is out of the way, maybe next week we can move on to see what's going on with the Navy, or what the world's reaction to two Yonko going down is like.

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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4 hours ago, Reticently said:

Chapters like this aren't super entertaining, but they are needed to make everything else fall in place to set up the next narrative.

 

I did enjoy Yamato's announcement of joining the crew.  Gotta wait to see if Oda follows through on it, but the monster trio is becoming the monster quintet.  Aside from Luffy, I can't really tell who the next strongest member of the crew is going to be.

 

I won't believe Yamato joins until it happens. But in terms of current Strawhats you are right, after the monster trio and Jimbei, you have a block of Robin, Brook and Franky each probably could in the right circumstances as shown in the last few arcs take on powerhouses. Nami, Chopper and Usopp are not so weak these days but they all usually have less raw power.

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

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I'd be very surprised if Oda does a significant time skip at this point.  Straw Hats could definitely use some recovery time, but after that if they aren't chasing down the One Piece/Laughtale, what are they even doing?

 

I don't see Luffy just pitching camp as a new Yonko or whatever and just chilling.

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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27 minutes ago, TheInfernoman said:

Keep in mind they said final Saga...but we all know how long a "saga" in OP is...so I take it we'll get at the least, maybe 1.5 years left and at most? maybe 3+?

I would guess 5. Way to too much to resolve and address for it to be done in under that. Plus with MHA and even Black Clover ending soon they will want to let another comic rise to heavy status before letting OP bounce.

 

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*.:White ShadoW:.* Level 9

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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Some interesting developments...

 

Spoiler

It seems Gear 5 isn't as taxing as I expected. Luffy has recovered with seemingly little consequence. Zoro came back from hell as well unscathed.

 

Momonosuke losing his tiddy grabbing privileges was hilarious and it's still crazy that an 8 year old is expected to lead a nation, but I guess his scabbards will be his guides.

 

Green Bull is just as we expected, likely a plant Logia, which confirms he hasn't eaten in years. due to photosynthesis. Such a DF ability is potentially ridiculousy OP, and he might be able to produce toxins, heal himself, and shoot solar beams. lol Even make real clones of himself or manipulate all plants and fungi on an island due to awakening.

Oda's 5-year plan seem daunting, but I'm just going to enjoy the ride...

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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RIP to Izo and Shura. I mean was expecting Shura given his death scene but was still hoping Izo would pull through, maybe teach Usopp a gun trick or something.

 

As expected Kidd and Law get the promotion. Didn't see them bringing the new admiral out this early nor the government immediately sending someone to grab Robin.  Makes you wonder, why none of the higher ups thought to capture more OHara folk instead of killing them all that day.

 

Liked this chapter a good deal, showed things moving forward and gave new details on stuff.

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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3 hours ago, Reticently said:

I'm a little unclear on what we are supposed to understand from the part with Basil and Drake.

 

Was that Basil dying on panel?  Is Drake supposed to be okay, or...?

Spoiler

I think Basil is dead. It seems to indicate he knew he was going to die based on his predictions but after that it is up in the air. They don't seem to indicate if anyone got help for him (1% is not zero) or Drake. If it is the end for Hawkins unless the retcon some huge feat his status as a big name was a let down.

 

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*.:White ShadoW:.* Level 9

*.:White ShadoW:.*

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:48 PM, Wellman said:
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I think Basil is dead. It seems to indicate he knew he was going to die based on his predictions but after that it is up in the air. They don't seem to indicate if anyone got help for him (1% is not zero) or Drake. If it is the end for Hawkins unless the retcon some huge feat his status as a big name was a let down.

 

Precisely. Basil Hawkin's prediction was based on his own odds, and makes him the first Supernova casualty. What is pretty interesting is that rather than try to change the odds he actually stuck to his convictions by siding with Kaido. He compromised by joining Kaido and now had a chance to flee the battle or switch sides but chose to ride out his fate on his own terms. It was the first time we've seen him try to defy the odds and I feel he was tired of the constant pragmatism.

 

The odds were in favor of the Strawhat alliance all along.

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Sonichuman Level 18

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4 hours ago, HD-Man said:

I'm sure as per usual he was in the right place at the right time and lucked up again. No way he masterminded or brute forced his way into that position 😂

Didn't Perona have to keep tabs on his ass while he was on the island?  Trying to remember if she was the one who had to keep his wandering in check.

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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12 hours ago, Sonichuman said:

Didn't Perona have to keep tabs on his ass while he was on the island?  Trying to remember if she was the one who had to keep his wandering in check.

You would have to assume so, but I don't think the island is that big for him to get lost on.

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