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28 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Thoughts on the Riot fighting game? Given all the recent shenanigans going down with China....not sure how I feel about it.

They're definitely going to want to make it for the widest possible audience - I'm expecting it to be super simplified, like Rising Thunder was -- it might even be like Fantasy Strike.

 

Probably won't be my thing, but I'll try it just like I try everything else.

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Namco is making Frame Data paid DLC for Tekken. A feature that everyone else includes for free. People need to call them out for this before it becomes standard practice. Sega's Virtua Fighter, NRS fighters, Tecmo's DOA, and Capcom's SFV didn't charge for this. It was added as a free update for SFV. Gameplay features should not be paid DLC. This gives a competitive edge.

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3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Namco is making Frame Data paid DLC for Tekken. A feature that everyone else includes for free. People need to call them out for this before it becomes standard practice. Sega's Virtua Fighter, NRS fighters, Tecmo's DOA, and Capcom's SFV didn't charge for this. It was added as a free update for SFV. Gameplay features should not be paid DLC. This gives a competitive edge.

I don't see any reason to call them out for it.

 

Tekken's home release is 2 years old and they put extra development time and resources to add this feature.  I don't see any reason why they shouldn't charge for it.  It's not like the feature was sitting around already complete and they just flipped a switch to make it work.

 

Not only that, but the other cool features like replays and punishment training are free.  I don't think paying extra is a problem here.

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I'll agree to disagree. They launched with subpar training options and are charging DLC to fix it. This sets a precedent for gameplay features in fighters being locked behind a paywall. 

Edited by Darc_Requiem

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5 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I'll agree to disagree. They launched with subpar training options and are charging DLC to fix it. This sets a precedent for gameplay featuresin fighters being locked behind a paywall. 

I don't see how it sets a precedent for anything really.  It's simple business.

 

Spin up additional development after launch = charge a bit of money to recoup costs.

 

Adding new content after the fact and charging for it isn't the same as gating content behind a paywall at launch.  I don't see why people think paying for add-on content now will somehow affect what the next game launches with years from now.

 

You could argue the game could have had these things  at launch, but this isn't launch.  It's 2 years later.  There's no way this was going to be free.  The only 2 choices were to pay a little bit of money now for these features or wait for them to possibly appear in Tekken 8.

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12 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Every other fighting game developer uses paid DLC to ensure gameplay additions are free for the userbase. Characters, costumes, etc. cost money. Any gameplay or balance related updates are free.

Tekken is the exact same way.  With the exception of the frame data, all balance and gameplay related updates are free for Tekken too.  Punishment training and replays/replay advice are free as well. 

 

The ONLY thing that is being charged besides characters is the frame data, which is a niche add-on that only the hardcore have been asking for/will use, and which they have said took a bunch of extra development.  I'm really struggling to see why people are losing their minds here.

 

Tekken has been updated and supported consistently since launch and makes SFV support look like a joke - a single 4 dollar DLC that affects a small hardcore group of people shouldn't be that big of an issue honestly.

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1 hour ago, misterBee said:

Tekken has been updated and supported consistently since launch and makes SFV support look like a joke - a single 4 dollar DLC that affects a small hardcore group of people shouldn't be that big of an issue honestly.

And yet SFV could add frame data at no charge. And no Tekken is no longer the same way. Because they are charging for Frame Data. Something none of their competitors do. Yeah I'm never going to agree with you on this. If all of your competitors provide something at no charge and you charge for it. It's going to be a problem.  If it's accepted and the community just blows it off, it ended up being standard from everyone.

 

Someone pointed his out and I hadn't considered it before. Sony, Sega, and Nintendo didn't charge for online gaming. Microsoft did. The reaction was, and I shared it so I'm not going to pretend I didn't, "what's the big deal." Fast forward to now, Nintendo and Sony charge for online. So it was a big deal after all.

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16 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

And yet SFV could add frame data at no charge. And no Tekken is no longer the same way. Because they are charging for Frame Data. Something none of their competitors do. Yeah I'm never going to agree with you on this. If all of your competitors provide something at no charge and you charge for it. It's going to be a problem.  If it's accepted and the community just blows it off, it ended up being standard from everyone.

 

Someone pointed his out and I hadn't considered it before. Sony, Sega, and Nintendo didn't charge for online gaming. Microsoft did. The reaction was, and I shared it so I'm not going to pretend I didn't, "what's the big deal." Fast forward to now, Nintendo and Sony charge for online. So it was a big deal after all.

If you want to make blind comparisons then of course this isn't going to get anywhere.

 

You have no idea how SFV or Tekken 7 were built.  Just because one game was able to add it easily doesn't mean the other could as well.  It's all well and good to say "everyone should charge for the same things" but that's also incredibly unrealistic.  You're ignoring all the work/factors involved in releasing said feature.

 

Bandai Namco and Capcom are two different companies, with different production costs, staff, workflow, etc.  If one wants to charge for something but the other doesn't, then whatever.  Buy or don't buy.  But to just assume everything will be the same between them is  not really realistic.  If the cost doesn't seem worth it to people, they just won't buy it -- but that's hardly a cause for righteous indignation.

 

Nintendo charges less for online than MS or Sony.  By your logic MS and Sony should cost the same as Nintendo! Blind price comparisons are pointless.

 

Let's not forget that SFV also put ADS into the 60 dollar game I bought.  That's kinda messed up.  Does this mean that in the future Tekken will have ads?  SFV did it and it was ok!  Clearly everything and anything is a precedent set in stone!

 

If Tekken 8 and SF6 come out with frame data as paid add-ons, then by all means get mad.  But people trying to predict the future like they've got a crystal ball because of some 4 dollar add-on to a 2 year old game is ridiculous.  I'm just really not getting the outrage.

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This isn't SFV versus Tekken 7  issue. It's Tekken versus everyone else issue. I have DoA Dimensions on 3DS, it came out in 2011. It has frame data. Tecmo has had frame data in three different game engines and DOA doesn't have Tekken's budget.  Ads in SFV are shitty, so is the netcode. That doesn't make charging for frame data excusable. No one, well maybe Xykes, is defending Ads in SFV nor its netcode.

 

Yet people are bending over backwards to defend Namco for charging for a gameplay feature that the Virtua Fighter series, Dead or Alive series, Injustice series, MK series, and now even SFV offer for free. There is serious level of whataboutism with this issue. Pointing to unacceptable practices in one game does not excuse Tekken for charging for frame data. Just like how the, frankly shit, netcode in Japanese fighting games is inexcuable when a budget title like KI has excellent netcode. Tekken out sells everything but NRS titles. They have no excuse. 

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