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1 hour ago, Psychoblue said:
Anyone know what this is about?  


Anime FGC just committing seppuku every month now.  

I don't want to be known as "the guy who hates Granblue", BUT...

- there's a very high amount of DLC relative to the base roster
- the online is absolute doo-doo

Even without whatever drama is happening there now, those 2 things alone are reason enough for the game to die.

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Geoff just likes being vague in general and I constantly have to look for what the hell he may be talking about. 
 

Other than people complaining about Belial still (Apparently he made up half of the top 8 in a tourney), I see no one talking about actual drama. Unless the belial complaints are the drama.

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Whole lotta backlog I gotta upload to make HD space.  SFxT discord has been JUMPING the last few months.

 

Strange feeling not to have to carry the torch alone anymore.  

 

There were a lot of weird copyright strikes on my videos from Capcom, but when I asked MamaDao about it she said to dispute them and Capcom will likely pull the claims off.  Thanks, Based Capcpom.

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On 11/16/2020 at 6:04 PM, Psychoblue said:

Anyone know what this is about?  


Anime FGC just committing seppuku every month now.  

What seppuku every month?

As far as i know is the usual shit you have in every community where people complain about top tiers or new chars.

Nothing extraordinary.

 

People nowdays like to act as if people bitching about characters is drama or that the community is imploding, just stupid shit and stupid idiots on twatter.

Some idiots doing stupid shit doesnt equal to the whole community, bro.

Edited by Hecatom
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On 11/16/2020 at 7:12 PM, Scanman said:

I don't want to be known as "the guy who hates Granblue", BUT...

- there's a very high amount of DLC relative to the base roster
- the online is absolute doo-doo

Even without whatever drama is happening there now, those 2 things alone are reason enough for the game to die.

The online is not bad, tbh.

The problem is that people auto default anything that is not rollback as bad, regardless of the quality of the online play.

 

As for the amount of DLC, that it is something i really find amusing when people complain about.

Perhaps the only really valid complain would be that it had 2 seasons in the same year.

But the amount of DLC the game has so far is no different to any other game in the last years, and the base roster is on the usual amount as well, between 10 and 14.

 

 

 

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On 11/17/2020 at 5:52 AM, Hawkingbird said:

A developer of Dengeki Bunko: Fighting Climax Ignition is upset that fans have unofficially ported the game to PC and adding rollback to it.

 

 

For what i read on the convo, the problem is that they are using a pirated version of the game that is an arcade dump from the sega.net service, that he is mad about.

Not that they are adding rollback to it.

 

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7 hours ago, Hecatom said:

What seppuku every month?

As far as i know is the usual shit you have in every community where people complain about top tiers or new chars.

Nothing extraordinary.

 

People nowdays like to act as if people bitching about characters is drama or that the community is imploding, just stupid shit and stupid idiots on twatter.

Some idiots doing stupid shit doesnt equal to the whole community, bro.

From what I can tell, the Vampire Savior community is now less than a smoldering wreck thanks to constant beefs dividing the community.

 

Skullgirls just seems to take L after L between the Mike Z drama and the composer going VIVA PRESIDENTE TRUMP after he already lost the election even though there should be no stake for that composer in that particular situation.  

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Lol, so you are going to lump some shit from random people and conflate it to the whole community? 

Not to mention lump 3 distinctive communities into a single one? 

 

 

That is the exact same shit that people do when they see some randoms posting dumb shit on twatter and then proceeding to say the whole fgc is x or y. 

 

By extension then mike z drama and whatever typical quarrel online from the vsav means the fgc is always commiting seppuku right? 

 

Lmao

Edited by Hecatom
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11 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Lol, so you are going to lump some shit from random people and conflate it to the whole community? 

Not to mention lump 3 distinctive communities into a single one? 

 

 

That is the exact same shit that people do when they see some randoms posting dumb shit on twatter and then proceeding to say the whole fgc is x or y. 

 

By extension then mike z drama and whatever typical quarrel online from the vsav means the fgc is always commiting seppuku right? 

 

Lmao

Do you have a counterpoint?  

Edited by Psychoblue
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11 hours ago, Hecatom said:

For what i read on the convo, the problem is that they are using a pirated version of the game that is an arcade dump from the sega.net service, that he is mad about.

Not that they are adding rollback to it.

 

I didn't mean to imply the rollback is what he was mad about. Just that's what was being done with the arcade dump. I'm sure he would be more pissed about the piracy.

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  @Sonero Though this might be better off here than the Lounge.

15 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Remy's problem has jack all to do with parries. Remy's projectile game is hella tricky to deal with; the problem is that his super bars are long for the damage they do and the ways to land super are slim. If he had a medium sized bar with a reliable way to land it, he'd shoot up the tiers super fast.

 

He also never mentioned which playstyles were invalidated. Ryu's fireball gameplan sucks mostly because his fireball was made to suck. There are more ways around fireballs in CvS2 but rarely see them because fireballs there have a similarly wack frame data. The game does have Akuma zoning people out with air fireballs.

 

Let's take a look at a tierlist that isn't all there necessarily:

 

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Technically that list should replace Oro and Necro but its good enough for this. None of the top 8 characters in that game either play the same or open you up in the same way. Hell, not all of them want to be point blank at you to throw you. Of all those characters, only chun has a good kara throw to really play like a semi grappler. Half of Makoto's job is to bully you with frame traps to open up a command throw.

 

Ken can play like a savage, Yang is playing footsies like Dudley is. Yang and Dudley have different gameplans when they have you cornered it isn't "semi grappler" stuff.

 

Viscant's point may have been a personal gripe, but holy nuts does it not describe much of 3S.

Remy's projectiles are probably best used to draw the opponent out and force them to at least have to parry/block them to hopefully force 50/50s, etc, but those 50/50s aren't necessarily great and parry means he doesn't even get the chip damage if he's able to lock them down. His normals largely suck and he can't low Forward into SA because his low forward sucks compared to most characters. He can use LP, LK, or MP but those are fairly stubby normals. His taunt increases his stun damage, but it takes an eternity to recover and he doesn't have enough "stunning" moves that it even matters. He's probably one of the most questionably designed characters in just about any Capcom game I can think of.

 

When I said throw is one of the best universal options, it's because it cant be parried so even characters with gameplans like Yun, Chun, Dudley, etc still have that as a threat for someone fishing for a parry off them. And it's a deadly enough option that it's one you'd be dumb not to use, hence semi-grappling.

 

I definitely think Viscant overstated his case a bit, but he's not wrong in that parries mess up the flow of the game because you really can't trap an opponent in the same way you could in SF2. Parries aren't "free" per se, but it's not like you're really giving much up if you're fishing for them in a smart way.

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2 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

When I said throw is one of the best universal options, it's because it cant be parried so even characters with gameplans like Yun, Chun, Dudley, etc still have that as a threat for someone fishing for a parry off them. And it's a deadly enough option that it's one you'd be dumb not to use, hence semi-grappling.

 

Throw is one of the best universal options in ST and SF5; neither of those games have parries as a system. Parries are also carry hella risk. Not only can you bait parry attempts, you can mix up your offense so that parries are less effective. Hell there are situations where parrying stuff puts you at risk.

 

If people in 3S are semi grappling then ST had a lot of semi grapplers; hell SF5 is semi grappling all over the place too.  Semi-grappling is even more of a thing in SF5 because you can't kill through regular chip kill so after a certain point, if you don't have meter, you have to land a grab or an overhead to win.  That makes throws, and then shimmies by extension, really important.

 

So....you haven't really elaborated at all how anybody is semi grappling anymore in 3S than other games. If you had no parries, Kara throws would still eat people up. Ryu's regular fireball is still dodgy without parries.  Yun is still gonna shoulder and divekick around projectiles as needed; Dudley can do ducking through them etc.  So what is Ryu gonna do with bad fireball frame data against tools that are already there and have F all to do with parries? You throw one hadouken and Chun is gonna let it rip on a super, take you to the corner and then kara throw you to death...but thank god she didn't parry anything.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Throw is one of the best universal options in ST and SF5; neither of those games have parries as a system. Parries are also carry hella risk. Not only can you bait parry attempts, you can mix up your offense so that parries are less effective. Hell there are situations where parrying stuff puts you at risk.

 

If people in 3S are semi grappling then ST had a lot of semi grapplers; hell SF5 is semi grappling all over the place too.  Semi-grappling is even more of a thing in SF5 because you can't kill through regular chip kill so after a certain point, if you don't have meter, you have to land a grab or an overhead to win.  That makes throws, and then shimmies by extension, really important.

 

So....you haven't really elaborated at all how anybody is semi grappling anymore in 3S than other games. If you had no parries, Kara throws would still eat people up. Ryu's regular fireball is still dodgy without parries.  Yun is still gonna shoulder and divekick around projectiles as needed; Dudley can do ducking through them etc.  So what is Ryu gonna do with bad fireball frame data against tools that are already there and have F all to do with parries? You throw one hadouken and Chun is gonna let it rip on a super, take you to the corner and then kara throw you to death...but thank god she didn't parry anything.

 

 

Because throwing in 3s is a necessity in a way it isn't in other SF games. Throw essentially beats parry, and is really the ONLY thing that beats parry, so if you're going to try to stave off parry attempts, throw is pretty much what you do in the interest of mixing them up, hence every character becomes a grappler in a sense. If the options up close (and SF3 takes place at a much closer distance than any other SF game) are throw out a normal and potentially get parried or mitigate parry and just throw, that makes throw a much better and more necessary option than it is in other games where throwing out a poke carries much less risk for the defending character. Throws are a good option for different reasons in SF2 and you don't HAVE to throw to win games there. In 3s, if you're not throwing, you're giving up a lot of damage and leaving yourself open to the possibility of being parried by an adept opponent because you're putting more parryable moves out there. I can't speak to SF5 because I don't play it, but if you think that they're good options for the same reasons in those different games, I don't really know what to say.

 

If you had no parries, characters' individual toolsets become much more important and it becomes less a game of trying to psych them out and miss than using your character's tools to their fullest to be able to press your advantage. Without parries,  Remy can lock people down and chinese water torture them to death, Yang and Dudley's rushdown and stun potential become even more scary, Makoto now has to work harder to start her shenanigans, and slower characters like Alex and Hugo become more of a threat because their easy-to-see-coming normals aren't automatically a liability.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Because throwing in 3s is a necessity in a way it isn't in other SF games. Throw essentially beats parry, and is really the ONLY thing that beats parry, so if you're going to try to stave off parry attempts, throw is pretty much what you do in the interest of mixing them up, hence every character becomes a grappler in a sense.

 

Throws beat parry and high low mix ups beat parry. Low parrying beats lows and mids, loses to highs; high parries parries highs and mids and loses to lows.  It isn't a bandaid you just throw in and things magically happen. You can set up traps for the parries where, if the opponent parries, they get punished for it (which Ken is really good at).

 

So it still isn't doing what Viscant says it did. Because it doesn't really take away offense away from the person, it just lets them make one guess attempt.

 

8 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

If you had no parries, characters' individual toolsets become much more important and it becomes less a game of trying to psych them out and miss than using your character's tools to their fullest to be able to press your advantage. Without parries,  Remy can lock people down and chinese water torture them to death, Yang and Dudley's rushdown and stun potential become even more scary, Makoto now has to work harder to start her shenanigans, and slower characters like Alex and Hugo become more of a threat because their easy-to-see-coming normals aren't automatically a liability.

 

Parries aren't the reason why Remy sucks. All that happens without parries is that everybody plays the same. Then because you took away parries, Urien, Oro and Ryu jump up in tiers because they can unblockable with impunity.

 

Chun is top tier before parries,  Yun is top without parries, literally all of the top 8 characters stay just as good without parries. They are great regardless of parry. Ryu's and Ken's fireballs stay bad without parry and nobody cares about them.

 

LMAO, Alex and Hugo aren't getting parried on reaction. They're both ass due to their tools being bad, not because of parry. As a matter of fact, if grappling was such a crucial thing to have in order to win in this game, Alex would be better. Instead he wins off of landing strong single hits and a stomp mix up you can technically OS but still hits people.

 

Hell Remy's fireballs are as good as they are because of parry, not in spite of them. if you couldn't occasionally parry one or two of them he'd just have some hilariously polarizing match ups. So yeah,  you remove parry and then you have to nerf Ryu, Urien, Oro and Remy.

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1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Throws beat parry and high low mix ups beat parry. Low parrying beats lows and mids, loses to highs; high parries parries highs and mids and loses to lows.  It isn't a bandaid you just throw in and things magically happen. You can set up traps for the parries where, if the opponent parries, they get punished for it (which Ken is really good at).

 

So it still isn't doing what Viscant says it did. Because it doesn't really take away offense away from the person, it just lets them make one guess attempt.

 

 

Parries aren't the reason why Remy sucks. All that happens without parries is that everybody plays the same. Then because you took away parries, Urien, Oro and Ryu jump up in tiers because they can unblockable with impunity.

 

Chun is top tier before parries,  Yun is top without parries, literally all of the top 8 characters stay just as good without parries. They are great regardless of parry. Ryu's and Ken's fireballs stay bad without parry and nobody cares about them.

 

LMAO, Alex and Hugo aren't getting parried on reaction. They're both ass due to their tools being bad, not because of parry. As a matter of fact, if grappling was such a crucial thing to have in order to win in this game, Alex would be better. Instead he wins off of landing strong single hits and a stomp mix up you can technically OS but still hits people.

 

Hell Remy's fireballs are as good as they are because of parry, not in spite of them. if you couldn't occasionally parry one or two of them he'd just have some hilariously polarizing match ups. So yeah,  you remove parry and then you have to nerf Ryu, Urien, Oro and Remy.

I mained Remy for most of the time I played the game, believe me, without parries, his playstyle would actually work like it does for Guile and Sagat in non SF3 games. If you think his projectiles are good because of parry you're on some good shit and I'd question how high a level you've actually played the game at because that's nowhere close to the truth. Most of his toolset sucks too, but parries just add insult to injury because those tools might be worth something if he could actually zone/trap people effectively. And no, everybody DOESN'T play the same without parries. It would change the game drastically for some characters, not so much for others with effective toolsets.

 

But ultimately the problem with parries, is that the great characters get them too, so they get another option besides their own superior toolsets to bury the worse characters and it turns things into more of a guessing game than anything else unfortunately. Parries throw so many aspects of the game out of whack that it's really hard to say that it's a GREAT mechanic. It's interesting, and its given us a lot of interesting moments, but ultimately it means everyone has to play the same game rather than playing their own game, and some characters are much much better at that than others. It's kind of like the 8 way whip in Castlevania IV, you have to wonder if they'd designed the game first and then decided to put parries in towards the end of development because they didn't apparently take into account the effect that one mechanic has on so many other aspects of the game.

Edited by DoctaMario
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