The SF6 Thread: DADDY CAPCOM DOESNT MISS

[AriesWarlock]

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Edited September 27 by AriesWarlock

[Maravilla]

What does ratio mean in fighting games especially in marvel vs capcom games? 

[AriesWarlock]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sonero]

On 9/26/2024 at 10:56 AM, DoctaMario said:

You say all this, but you like MvC2 😂 (I do too, but saying "all GG games are wack"  is crisco-fapping lunacy.)

 

To be fair though, I remember hearing from players who were around more in the Reload/Midnight Carnival eras that Accent Core was too complicated, that it put too many moves behind meter pay walls, and that it was a kitchen sink game, which, while it's my favorite, I can't necessarily deny. So this sort of thing has been going on with fans of the series for a long time.

 

I can deal with a game being accidentally wack. Shit happens. You think some stuff will work a certain way, then it doesn't. The 90s was basically a carnival of that with FGs. They experimented a lot with stuff and we know what we know because of it.

 

The issue is that ASW does certain things intentionally; a chunk of those would be called flaming garbage if we were being honest about them.  Because a lot of what they did was make something bad then have to come up with a bunch of system mechanics to try and justify keeping it; in more than a few cases they ended up having to nerf because it worked like shit.

 

So when I'm looking at a game now, I'm gonna look at it from the perspective of "okay, you already know what makes a good and a bad game, what do you have for me?" Marvel 3 was hilariously wack. Some of the things that made MvC2 tick competitively they kind of washed their ass with and forgot about it. They did some good stuff with power level of all characters. But it plays in kind of a shitty way in a lot of places.

 

SF5 had a lot of stuff that's wack in it too. But wack in the "you intentionally made this stupid when realistically you should know better". There were a funny amount of things I thought played wack that they ended up nerfing. Then people cried about it instead of just accepting that they were wack in the first place. Its the same with a chunk of ASW designs.

 

That to me is the big difference in FGs now to back then. Its cool that your game was kinda wack before when you couldn't patch it and didn't fully understand some stuff. You come out with Happy Chaos and/or the whole of DNF or the Power Rangers game? Yeah, you're trolling.

 

 

[DoctaMario]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

I can deal with a game being accidentally wack. Shit happens. You think some stuff will work a certain way, then it doesn't. The 90s was basically a carnival of that with FGs. They experimented a lot with stuff and we know what we know because of it.

 

The issue is that ASW does certain things intentionally; a chunk of those would be called flaming garbage if we were being honest about them.  Because a lot of what they did was make something bad then have to come up with a bunch of system mechanics to try and justify keeping it; in more than a few cases they ended up having to nerf because it worked like shit.

 

 

I guess I'd need examples to know what you're talking about here. "Intentionally wack" is a pretty subjective statement in this case. Fighting game design has come a long way in the last 15 or so years (or at least since SF4) and most of the GG series was already out before then and was in a state where you couldn't just patch things if they didn't work quite right. It makes a huge difference now that companies can basically crowdsource their game testing and that people can talk about said games with the rest of the world on the internet.

 

So depending on what you're talking about, some of those things may have been hallmarks of the series that gave it its identity and needed to be there regardless of what those mechanics meant for the game.

[Pair of Rooks]

I wanna change my answer. 

 

Giving Strive a break, I re-learned just how ass SF6's input reader is.  

 

jfc 35 years of playing SF and then this

 

 

[Sonero]

21 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

I guess I'd need examples to know what you're talking about here. "Intentionally wack" is a pretty subjective statement in this case.

 

Intentionally wack isn't really subjective at all considering the laundry of shit they had to nerf in both SF5 and Strive. Some of it is basic shit like "yeah, maybe you don't give Urien a +2 on block Cr.Mk when he has a 7 frame EX move that can basically beat buttons meant to stuff when that EX move can cancel into v-trigger" other is "well, May's dolphin worked a certain way for years because otherwise it would be extra dumb, so why did you take away the relevant counterplay in the first place?"

 

I don't know what they meant by any of the things they did with Goldlewis. They made his main mechanic as a character so that it would literally ignore the main defensive mechanic offense is built around...and guess what they had to do? Change it because it was dumb.

 

There's a lot of stuff in SF5 and Strive that probably shouldn't have made it to production if somebody was remotely sensible. But as for ASW the only thing they know how to do is crazy shit. But a lot of it invariably ends up full of things that are hilariously shitty and then they sometimes can fix it, others not.

 

Is what it is. But its basically MUGEN with great artwork and a budget.

[Shakunetsu]

On 9/27/2024 at 12:56 AM, DoctaMario said:

To be fair though, I remember hearing from players who were around more in the Reload/Midnight Carnival eras that Accent Core was too complicated, that it put too many moves behind meter pay walls, and that it was a kitchen sink game, which, while it's my favorite, I can't necessarily deny. So this sort of thing has been going on with fans of the series for a long time.

When does moves behind pay metter done right and badly?

 

What are the moves that are behind pay metter do work and also the moves that are terrible

[DoctaMario]

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Intentionally wack isn't really subjective at all considering the laundry of shit they had to nerf in both SF5 and Strive. Some of it is basic shit like "yeah, maybe you don't give Urien a +2 on block Cr.Mk when he has a 7 frame EX move that can basically beat buttons meant to stuff when that EX move can cancel into v-trigger" other is "well, May's dolphin worked a certain way for years because otherwise it would be extra dumb, so why did you take away the relevant counterplay in the first place?"

 

I don't know what they meant by any of the things they did with Goldlewis. They made his main mechanic as a character so that it would literally ignore the main defensive mechanic offense is built around...and guess what they had to do? Change it because it was dumb.

 

There's a lot of stuff in SF5 and Strive that probably shouldn't have made it to production if somebody was remotely sensible. But as for ASW the only thing they know how to do is crazy shit. But a lot of it invariably ends up full of things that are hilariously shitty and then they sometimes can fix it, others not.

 

Is what it is. But its basically MUGEN with great artwork and a budget.

I don't know or pay much attention to SF5 so this is theory fighting on my part, but: 2MK is, from what I can tell, the only move Urien (had to correct this twice, my phone thinks I'm trying to type "Urine" 🤣)  has that will help him combo into VT. So it HAS to be a good move since he's going to be throwing it out a lot and anyone who isn't dumb will be looking for it. If anything, they should have given him more options in this regard and it's probably part of the reason why he's a mid tier character. Having an EX move as the follow up means it's not free and he will only have a few times he'll be able to use it. So I don't see why it's wack unless I'm misunderstanding what you're getting at.

 

Things look different on paper than they do in the light of a community stress testing them a' la Goldlewis. Saying they made these things bad on purpose is a weird take imo because in testing there may not have been any of the issues that appeared once he was released.

 

 

46 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

When does moves behind pay metter done right and badly?

 

What are the moves that are behind pay metter do work and also the moves that are terrible

I'm not making a judgement call either, just saying that's a complaint some players of the earlier entries had with Accent Core.

Edited September 29 by DoctaMario

[HeavensCloud]

Nemo's tier list including Terry:

 

 

 

Terry is quite low.  Seems like he's a technical character that doesn't give as much reward as the simpler shoto's like Ken and Akuma.  Still, seems like a good addition though as he's quite fun to play.  

[Pair of Rooks]

Gief top 4 even after the nerfs?  That's definitely a Nemo list. 

 

Let's say Ed really is top 1 in this game.  He seems... like the good kind of character to have as a top 1?   Nothing really stupid or lazy about him stands out like ridonkulous damage output or a level 2 super-tornado, and he's just hard enough to play well that its hard to say he carries anyone at most levels of play. 

 

 

[HeavensCloud]

2 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Gief top 4 even after the nerfs?  That's definitely a Nemo list. 

 

Let's say Ed really is top 1 in this game.  He seems... like the good kind of character to have as a top 1?   Nothing really stupid or lazy about him stands out like ridonkulous damage output or a level 2 super-tornado, and he's just hard enough to play well that its hard to say he carries anyone at most levels of play. 

 

 

I've been high on Ed for a while.  Don't think I'd put him ahead of Akuma but he's definitely up there.   He has the ability to play pretty risk adverse by controlling the screen and he can approach the opponent when he wants on his terms.  He's one of the safest picks and Akuma does have low health as his one vulnerability, so I can see Nemo's reasoning for having him alone in S tier. 

Edited September 29 by HeavensCloud

[Pair of Rooks]

 

 

[Sonero]

 

@elliephil we really are so back.

 

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

 

Edited October 1 by AriesWarlock

[Maravilla]

How did evo end up in Vegas and why does it seem like the reason is sketchy? 

[TWINBLADES]

Terry is fun. But AKI got a new EX color I didn't know about so I can't grind Terry just yet.

[TWINBLADES]

Morrigan is winning this a by a fucking massive landslide. And all the follow up votes are for the waifus. I’m not even surprised. Darkstalkers has been quite literally kept to life by gooners lmao!!!!

 

Anyways I got all the EX colors. I’m gonna grind AKI till the weekend then finally take Terry for a spin.

[-PVL93-]

6 hours ago, TWINBLADES said:

Morrigan is winning this a by a fucking massive landslide. And all the follow up votes are for the waifus. I’m not even surprised. Darkstalkers has been quite literally kept to life by gooners lmao!!!!

I bet if you asked these people to name any other character from the series half of them wouldn't be able to answer. 

The reality is folks don't care about Darkstalkers, they only care about Morrigan's tits and ass

[-PVL93-]

45 minutes ago, Jion_Wansu said:

So, will Capcom not announce a Mortal Kombat character then surprise everyone when they release the character the next day? Would it be Raiden, Shang Tsung, Scorpion, or Sub-Zero?

Mk guests are not happening

[TWINBLADES]

7 hours ago, -PVL93- said:

I bet if you asked these people to name any other character from the series half of them wouldn't be able to answer. 

The reality is folks don't care about Darkstalkers, they only care about Morrigan's tits and ass

This is largely true. Capcom is to blame for this though. Their rational about the IP has basically only kept it alive via fan artists. So Lilith, Morrigan, BB Hood and Felecia get all the love. And of course those are the top names in the lead on the poll hahaha

[-PVL93-]

Also unless Capcom can create a cartoony style or straight up 2d drawn game I don't want another Darkstalkers. They're just gonna make it in the same half realistic visuals that DMCV RE7 DRDR MHW SF6 DD2 use, shit will look ugly

 

[Pair of Rooks]

11 minutes ago, -PVL93- said:

Also unless Capcom can create a cartoony style or straight up 2d drawn game I don't want another Darkstalkers. They're just gonna make it in the same half realistic visuals that DMCV RE7 DRDR MHW SF6 DD2 use, shit will look ugly

 

Idk I think maybe in Strives engine DS could look good.

 

[-PVL93-]

1 hour ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Idk I think maybe in Strives engine DS could look good.

 

Arcsys Darkstalkers with Slayer and Testament as guest characters

[Darc_Requiem]

On 10/2/2024 at 7:14 AM, Jion_Wansu said:

So, will Capcom not announce a Mortal Kombat character then surprise everyone when they release the character the next day? Would it be Raiden, Shang Tsung, Scorpion, or Sub-Zero?

Even people that like guest characters don't want this shit. MK needs to get their shit together. MK1 and Khaos Reigns are bad, especially the latter. Khaos Reigns was atrocious. Not expecting Shakespeare by any means but damn could they at least try. I watched @Scotia's video and he was more on point than a rapier. I was ready to give him standing ovation when he talked about Bi Han. He's supposed to be a morally grey character. Not really a hero or villain, so his transformation to Noob Saibot actually means something.  Noob Saibot was all the evil of Bi Han distilled into a new being. All the good wiped away with only the evil left behind. MK1 made Bi Han a mustache twirling villain as Sub Zero so Noob has no point. 

 

Edited October 3 by Darc_Requiem

[Jocelot]

19 hours ago, TWINBLADES said:

Darkstalkers has been quite literally kept to life by gooners lmao!!!!

 

The gooner market can't be slept on. If I've learned anything from the Genshin Impact/Zenless Zone Zero crowd is that gooners can sustain your projects for years. Darkstalkers is a hotbed just waiting to be exploited

[elliephil]

On 10/2/2024 at 12:05 AM, TWINBLADES said:

Morrigan is winning this a by a fucking massive landslide. And all the follow up votes are for the waifus. I’m not even surprised. Darkstalkers has been quite literally kept to life by gooners lmao!!!!

 

Anyways I got all the EX colors. I’m gonna grind AKI till the weekend then finally take Terry for a spin.

Oh this ends on October 7th, I want that Chun colour 😃

[-PVL93-]

18 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Noob Saibot was all the evil of Bi Han distilled into a new being. All the good wiped away with only the evil left behind. MK1 made Bi Han a mustache twirling villain as Sub Zero so Noob has no point. 

It's okay, in MK3 they'll do another franchise reboot and wipe the state clean again

[Sonero]

Make a whole new game about how redoing a timeline. Big point in the story is that redoing the timeline left wacky results in some people.

 

Quote

This character was like this in the previous timeline. They have ruined the game by not doing the same thing again.

 

Just like the multiverse, this type of time travel fixes are also trash. But that isn't really a fair complaint.

[-PVL93-]

It's a fair complaint because this multiverse shit has infested everything like a plague

[purbeast]

I put this together last night because I have been curious about trying split 6gawd layout and I figured hey why not just do it with a new case as well!  I had some spare buttons around that I used too.  It's a smaller form factor than my main stick.  On first play, I was definitely hitting the empty space when trying to DRC because I'm used to it being placed in a different spot.  But I do like being spaced out a bit more because sometimes I would accidentally hit some wrong buttons with normal 6gawd layout.  I will give it some more time over the weekend and see if I adapt.

 

Oh also, after not using Sanwa buttons for months and now going back to them with this build, holy hell they feel like crap.  I loved Sanwa buttons too until I tried the Samducksa ones.  Now Sanwa feels all cheap and mushy.

 

 

Here is the form factor compared to my regular one.

 

[Dragonfave723]

Look who's back on X....

[Doctrine_Dark]

Was just reminiscing about the good ol' days when Fighting EX Layer was coming to consoles.

 

"I'mma be the #1 Doctrine Dark player in the Country. No, wait! In the world. I finally have a chance to show why I'm worthy of the name!"

 

The Reality:
 

 

Long-story short: I just be saying shyt

[Sonero]

 

Man that sucks. I liked Fighting EX Layer too but that system was too much. I get they wanna let people "be creative," but when you get to that point of having to fuck around with extra stuff it becomes less fun and more of chore. That's where the A3 system and the Groove system had it right. Give me just a sprinkle of choosing and let me get on my way to playing.

 

Also where SFxT got too unwiedly; last thing an FG needs to be is for the extra turbo nerds that are gonna sit through hundreds of small choices to put some shit together. Already did that with M:TG, don't need that shit in my FGs.

[Maravilla]

Jill is 10x more fun in mvc2 than in mvc3, she's like a different character, bb hood is also very fun, it takes very little charge time for her missiles, just a couple frames longer than if it were a motion input so that's cool, also after the juggernaut glitch how long does he keep it? Like until they kill him or after a certain number of switches? 

[-PVL93-]

Speaking of marvel 2, there's a Twitch Rivals event starting today in like 3 hours

[CESTUS III]

18 hours ago, Doctrine_Dark said:

Was just reminiscing about the good ol' days when Fighting EX Layer was coming to consoles.

 

"I'mma be the #1 Doctrine Dark player in the Country. No, wait! In the world. I finally have a chance to show why I'm worthy of the name!"

 

The Reality:
 

 

Long-story short: I just be saying shyt

Time to return to SF6

[TWINBLADES]

LMFAOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

[-PVL93-]

Why the hell is it taking them 2 years to make a bunch of costumes, did they fire the entire dev team or what?

[CESTUS III]

12 minutes ago, -PVL93- said:

Why the hell is it taking them 2 years to make a bunch of costumes, did they fire the entire dev team or what?

Was fake

But on other hand they don't counter it with something more reassuring

Quote

"Caution. This user has made posts that differ from or distort the content of the interview," reads the statement from the official Japanese Street Fighter account translated through Google with some adjustments. "We would appreciate it if you would take the official announcements as correct information.

 

"We have received a large number of inquiries about this matter in the last few hours, so although it is unusual, we would like to take this opportunity to make this announcement.

 

"We hope you will continue to enjoy Street Fighter 6."

 

I was expecting this december to get 4th costumes, but the fact does'nt even try to say "we will make an announcement soon" make me not want to hold my breath about it lol

 

I would prefer that damn WTM expansion though, i enjoy character creation and they're holding back TONS of stuff that's already ingame so it's not even about have people to work on it but just stop to intentionally keep it blocked

[-PVL93-]

I mean it's probably not 2026 but the gap is still quite large. For SFV they used to print new costume packs almost every month, now it's taking 8-12 months. And they still haven't named an even approximate date for 4th outfits - is it coming with Mai? After CPT? During EVO JP 25? When season 3 patch releases? No concept art teases yet either

[CESTUS III]

37 minutes ago, -PVL93- said:

I mean it's probably not 2026 but the gap is still quite large. For SFV they used to print new costume packs almost every month, now it's taking 8-12 months. And they still haven't named an even approximate date for 4th outfits - is it coming with Mai? After CPT? During EVO JP 25? When season 3 patch releases? No concept art teases yet either

Yeah bit absurd situation

 

Hopefully we get 4th round before S3, i'm still waiting a Ryu costume i like lol

[Jurassic]

It seems like a lot of multi-tasking is going on for costumes, battle passes, patching etc. I just hope it doesn't stall character releases.

[HeavensCloud]

 

VF6 announcement soon?

[Shakunetsu]

On 10/3/2024 at 4:29 AM, Darc_Requiem said:

Even people that like guest characters don't want this shit. MK needs to get their shit together. MK1 and Khaos Reigns are bad, especially the latter. Khaos Reigns was atrocious. Not expecting Shakespeare by any means but damn could they at least try. I watched @Scotia's video and he was more on point than a rapier. I was ready to give him standing ovation when he talked about Bi Han. He's supposed to be a morally grey character. Not really a hero or villain, so his transformation to Noob Saibot actually means something.  Noob Saibot was all the evil of Bi Han distilled into a new being. All the good wiped away with only the evil left behind. MK1 made Bi Han a mustache twirling villain as Sub Zero so Noob has no point. 

 

 

Im okay for SF characters in MK game but not the other way around.

 

Like Shadow Lady, Mech Zangief, Phantom Bison, Necali, Oni and Kage in MK would work in a way 

[Darc_Requiem]

4 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

Im okay for SF characters in MK game but not the other way around.

 

Like Shadow Lady, Mech Zangief, Phantom Bison, Necali, Oni and Kage in MK would work in a way 

It's not going to happen because Capcom nor just about every other fighting game developer isn't okay with their characters getting mutilated in MK. The only series that MK could have a crossover with is Killer Instinct.

[AriesWarlock]

Someday Capcom will bring back special intros meanwhile in Tekken

 

 

[-PVL93-]

Sf6 doesn't even have any swimsuits yet

[elliephil]

Did I spend an hour bullying some poor modern control player in the battle hub to grind out the new character colours? Yup! Do I feel shame? Never 😈 

[-PVL93-]

1 hour ago, elliephil said:

Did I spend an hour bullying some poor modern control player in the battle hub to grind out the new character colours? Yup! Do I feel shame? Never 😈 

Based