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The SF6 Thread: DADDY CAPCOM DOESNT MISS

misterBee

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HeavensCloud Level 14

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Sonero said:

The one thing I truly hate about this new era of netcode is that I can never tell when its a ragequit or the netcode is just shitting itself.

 

I've been accidentally disconnected in situations similar to that one for no fucking reason other than CFN felt like it. Sucks balls TBH.

If it's at the end of a round/match 95% of the time it's a ragequit.  I only have 7 on my blacklist since June and 4 of them are Ken players 😂

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

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Posted

I mentioned the ELO of somebody in Strive. Dude had almost 10K matches and surprisingly low ELO all things considered. Somebody asked how and I said FGs are hard.

 

Which proceeded a convo about how they aren't any harder than League of Legends or Valorant or Counter Strike. But it never addressed my point that FGs are hard to play. Specially when you wanna go from the level that I'm at  (fairly competent) to the next level (really good).

 

So now I apparently have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader because I don't see what any of those games have to do with FGs being hard to play.

 

What does get me is that there is a section of players saying that all games should come with tutorials (and they should) but then also saying FGs aren't that hard. If they were that intuitive the floor of playskill would be a lot higher. But it feels like in general a lot of people don't have a holistic view of the whole of people playing these games.

 

Seems people lump in "easy to get started" with "easy to progress" with "easy to master" into the same conversation.  Even in a Sajam vid I was watching, he said that you can just learn a good offensive sequence and do that and do well. But that is a hilariously dishonest argument. It says something about the nature of FG design, but using it as a base for "they aren't that hard" is incredibly easy.

 

It just intentionally devalues the skills developed in to play these games while being dismissive of people who are struggling. Its okay to say FGs are hard to play. Any other genre says the same thing and nobody bats an eye. You say FGs are hard to play and suddenly its an issue.

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TWINBLADES Level 16

TWINBLADES

Posted
Posted

I finally ran into a few AKI's in rank but only after getting into Plat. She was nowhere in gold. Getting outplayed with your character is some shit man. My AKI is so dry. I always feel like if a character doesn't have a meme button to use in the mid range I feel like I'm at a loss for what to do. I kinda wish AKI's stand feirce wasn't a target combo because I like it's range but the first hit cancels into nothing. Her level 1 is also really bad as an anti air. I already knew her defense was bad but when you play her you really feel that shit. She does have the most fun conversions I've ever seen in this game though. Every time I land something with her from improvisation it makes me feel big brain. I had a few moments where I'd be juggling people but then get scared and wonder if  I can close then round. Then I'd just drive rush while they're in mid air and mash out level three and it connects. Got me looking like the Antonia Banderas meme. Her extended hut boxes on her nail whips is monkeys paw shit. I get it, they didn't want a poison Dhalsim. But that's what I needed, that's what we all needed. Outside of her weak defense though she's my girl. SF6 is fun again. Now I just need to actually learn how to apply the sauce.

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HeavensCloud Level 14

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Sonero said:

I mentioned the ELO of somebody in Strive. Dude had almost 10K matches and surprisingly low ELO all things considered. Somebody asked how and I said FGs are hard.

 

Which proceeded a convo about how they aren't any harder than League of Legends or Valorant or Counter Strike. But it never addressed my point that FGs are hard to play. Specially when you wanna go from the level that I'm at  (fairly competent) to the next level (really good).

 

So now I apparently have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader because I don't see what any of those games have to do with FGs being hard to play.

 

What does get me is that there is a section of players saying that all games should come with tutorials (and they should) but then also saying FGs aren't that hard. If they were that intuitive the floor of playskill would be a lot higher. But it feels like in general a lot of people don't have a holistic view of the whole of people playing these games.

 

Seems people lump in "easy to get started" with "easy to progress" with "easy to master" into the same conversation.  Even in a Sajam vid I was watching, he said that you can just learn a good offensive sequence and do that and do well. But that is a hilariously dishonest argument. It says something about the nature of FG design, but using it as a base for "they aren't that hard" is incredibly easy.

 

It just intentionally devalues the skills developed in to play these games while being dismissive of people who are struggling. Its okay to say FGs are hard to play. Any other genre says the same thing and nobody bats an eye. You say FGs are hard to play and suddenly its an issue.

I used to play Counterstrike before I got into fighting games and the former is definitely easier.  Anyone saying that fighting games are easy is lying.  They're hard and will always be niche because of this.  People that are attracted to fighting games enjoy putting in the work to lab, work on execution, learn matchups, etc.  There's no instant gratification - it's a tough climb but a fun one.  

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted (edited)

IMO the thing that separates fighting games from all other multiplayer games, is that you have no other reason aside from yourself 100% as to why you lost.

 

You can't be on a bad team with bad teammates.

 

You can't blame the AI on doing stupid stuff.

 

You can't blame random spawn points.

 

etc.

 

Pretty much every other type of multiplayer games has some variance of randomness in it as well.  This just does not exist in fighting games.  There is a very specific set of rules that are the bounds for the gameplay and you have to follow them and play by them, as does your opponent.

 

I also don't think that everyone is able to handle playing a game like a fighting game where if you lose it is 100% your fault where you can't give an excuse.  People are just built differently and not able to cope with that fact where they are the reason they are losing and it is on them and only them to improve and get better.  Many people can't handle just going into a match and being completely destroyed by someone who is levels better than you.  You also have to have the mentality that you want to learn and get better, which not everyone is able to handle mentally.

 

You can't just hop on a better team like in an FPS to help carry you, get a better random spawn point, etc.  

 

Oh, and on top of that, there is a very steep learning curve to them.  It's a pretty high barrier of entry with fighters compared to other games like FPS or sports or racing, etc.   I'd also that fighting games are also the most mentally taxing games compared to those other games because the mental stack in general is just through the roof and you have to make split second decisions while processing all of the info.

 

And for all these reasons - that is why I love them and love the competition they drive.

Edited by purbeast
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TWINBLADES Level 16

TWINBLADES

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Hmm...I feel like comparing the difficulty of FGs to other games isn't a helpful conversation. Its like I'm trying to justify whether something is hard based on whether or not something else is also hard.

 

Both things can be hard to do.

Fighting games are hard but it can be difficult to define the 'hardness" because so much of what makes then genre hard is granular. There's a reason why pro FPS players don't run in these games. People like fighting games. They like the idea of being Daigo. But most people recognize that the walk is long and hard. Being the best dude in your state means jack shit in this genre. Fuck being the best in your country doesn't mean much. For ultra casuals there's really no easy way to get people in that hasn't already been tried. I usually dislike the doomer mentality people parrot about getting into this genre but if you don't already have the hunger it's never gonna work. The only reason I put up with getting my ass kicked in SFV back during the betas and launch year is because I grew up playing Souls Calibur 2 and CVS2. I grew up watching Latino kids playing Marvel Super Heroes on PS1. The shit fascinated me. I had to see more of it and play more of it. And I mostly played them by myself. And I'm fucking dog shit at these games so imagine someone with less fucks to give that doesn't want to put in the effort. 

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JustBooming Level 13

JustBooming

Posted
Posted

Maybe I'm being a pessimistic clown, but already half expecting a backlash with people presuming the new costumes will be 50FM, like the first set. I saw that as a pretty cheap alternative to grinding the cash in WT. Compared to SFV that price is ridiculously low, and I'd be amazed - though wouldn't complain - if any following costumes were that price (esp. given the turtles shite)

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JustBooming Level 13

JustBooming

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Sonero said:

People were really sweating the TMNT shit like it was affecting anybody.

 

Yeah, really couldn't care less about the battle pass or any avatar stuff. If it's making money and folk who are into it enjoy, great. I'll save my cash for chars (and stages, I don't like having them missing, admittedly)

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted

I just realised I have no idea how this game is doing. There are very negative people on twitter but experience has shown that it's just a very vocal minority in pretty much every case. I looked at Steam right now which says 19000 people playing, which is a number I have zero context for. Then I looked at MK1 and it said 3000, so I presume SF6 is doing rather well.

 

I just fell out of it rather quickly. I think the last time I played was late July. I just don't enjoy the forced over-usage of Drive mechanics, to me it always felt like Drive Gauge Fighter and not Street Fighter. But I'm also aware that's just a personal thing. It's obviously a high quality product with a truckload of content in an era of games that try to milk you dry via DLC from Day 1. I hope it does well and if so, continues to do so, but it was not for me.

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, JustBooming said:

Yeah, really couldn't care less about the battle pass or any avatar stuff. If it's making money and folk who are into it enjoy, great. I'll save my cash for chars (and stages, I don't like having them missing, admittedly)

I still have yet to step foot in the battle hub or even world tour.  

 

And I don't really plan on it.

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Sonero said:

Hmm...I feel like comparing the difficulty of FGs to other games isn't a helpful conversation. Its like I'm trying to justify whether something is hard based on whether or not something else is also hard.

 

Both things can be hard to do.

 

To be honest the only thing I felt alienating and complicated with modern FGs are the idea of frame advantages like plus one or minus one on block thing. 

 

Like its something I need to memorize depending on my match up. too much mental load required. Its like doing math per character againt your character.

 

I know this thing exist since before but they weren't big deal back in the day.

 

I dont know the name of some fundamental like zoning in 90s but I'm doing it naturally because its essential to characters gameplan and they are also universal strategy that exist in other 2D games.

 

We even called footsies as chacha in are place and ticking as judo to label a repetitive strategy

 

I am bad at execution nowadays but I dont really see the need for too many input easy mode variation. SF4 and UMVC execution are fine even early SF2 games I dont know why the idea of modern casual is that its still execution? QCF problem? 

 

I think what makes things bad in FGs today is too much to need to memorize against a character because it felt complicated and intimidating. 

 

I like SC and Tekken but I dont take them seriously when I was a teen because commandlist. 

 

Same problem with MTG the current state of commander modern and vintage too many need things to track like dungeons, saga, too much rolling dice, 

 

 

 

 

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HeavensCloud Level 14

HeavensCloud

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I'm a little surprised people are so up in arms over Drive Rush.  Yeah it's a part of the game and it's a strong mechanic (especially for costing one bar).  But aside from a couple characters like Juri and Dee Jay who seem like they instantly teleport across the screen -  I don't think it's a problem.  I'd take DR over the swingy nature of V-triggers any day of the week.  

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

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Posted

I'm never going to spend money on cosmetic things so I'm not really the audience for this stuff, but as a Dee Jay main, I think his 3rd outfit is one of the worst.  Ryu's is up there as well.  Ken and Blanka too.

 

Dhalsim, JP, Honda, and Guile are the best IMO.  I thought Guile's was cool cause it's nothing like anything I've seen before.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

I'd take DR over the swingy nature of V-triggers any day of the week.  

Yes and no. V-Triggers were pretty bad but they were a once-per-round occurrence. Whereas Drive Rush is pretty prevalent, whether it's having to deal with the opponent using it or yourself using it to get in or extend combos. It's always either happening or in the back of your mind and (in my opinion) overshadows every other aspect of the moment-to-moment gameplay. I've never felt that way about any other SF system mechanic except for Parry, which coincidentally I also disliked.

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