Daemos

So where did their culture come from? Does Bison artificially imprint it into their heads during the brainwashing process? This man has thought of everything, he's a genius!

https://eventhubs.com/news/2022/feb/24/poll-characters-not-sf6-roster/ Look at these fuckers trying to vote out Bison! May their website collapse under the weight of their stupidity! Bison foretold the world of the evils of democracy. A thousand Psycho Axes upon them!

Fair point. But I guess this comes down to how you define yourself. If Bison is now Psycho Power incarnate and Psycho Power is the physical/ki manifestation of negative energy/Evil then Bison's "self" extends far beyond his physical host (this is alluded to in Alpha 3 strongly), he's wherever is exists! The host body of Bison merely acts as an anchor for his spirit in the physical world so that he can more freely interact with this plane. As Bison would say, Power is just Power. I think the point here is that Necalli was once human, but his desire for fighting/war made him give in to his culture's equivalent of the SNH and he turned into an "Oni-like" creature, irrevocably inhuman. I don't think he "defeated" Bison. Watch the sequence again. Even without the moons, and Nash's Psycho Negating Kamikaze attack, Bison was more or less unscathed. Not even his hat fell out of place. This all happened without the Moons acting as conduits for Psycho Power from all over the world. The point being driven here is that it was never Nash or Gill's destiny to stop Bison (Gill recognizes this), it was always going to be Ryu and the Power of Nothingness. Even Bison knew this, which is probably why he dismissed everything and everyone that came his way until Ryu arrived. He definitely is Top Tier and was probably stronger than Guile and Ryu in the Alpha 2 days. But ultimately Bison was much stronger than he let on as both he and Rose discovered the hard way. However, it makes perfect sense that the Illuminati chose him as their warrior, because he is TT. It wasn't just his hate for Bison and his nihilism.

Bison is scum to Akuma, and Akuma is scum to Gouken. Different degrees on the same spectrum of "shortcuts" IMO where Bison is on one extreme "Will literally do anything to become the strongest fighter" and on the other end you have characters like Ryu who will "only do one thing until they become the strongest fighter". Akuma is closer to Bison, but if he knew how to harness outer human conflict like Bison (who mixes both skill and science to do this) he probably would eventually as that is the nature of the power he seeks. Bison is likely much older than Akuma and has been at it for much longer. Look at Necalli for example, he's been at it for centuries and now he's literally eating people. The path towards this kind of power will make you do things you may not have intended to do (see Akuma killing Gen for example vs Akuma refusing to before).

As far as "eccentric" goes, I think the dolls should've been the peak, but they fucked up their designs in SF5 quite a bit by trying to make them more unique (megaphone really?). The only salvageable soldier designs are possibly the Gold Skulls who reminded me of Emperor Palpatines elite guard, and therefore can be allowed some semblance of eccentricity. Otherwise, something more serious like the berets or faceless stormtrooper-esque soldiers would've worked. It's no more of a cheat than Gill and Urien's GMO bullshit. I also don't think that was Nash, that was Nash imbued with Gill's powers. He too had a "cheat trick". Oro is the only top tier character not using shortcuts, he paid his dues with over a century of training. Ryu is destined to be Oro 2 but in half the time probably because he is genetically gifted. Akuma, Bison, Gill, Seth, etc. are all using shortcuts to gain and maintain power/strength and they each have their own rationalization for the shortcut which checks out from their worldview. They pay a heavy price for it whether they know it or not. I wouldn't call it a cheat trick, it's a bargain and it either pays off or it doesn't. Anyway, I do think that Urien and Gill are on the same level in terms of skill and power (at least they are in SF5), but Gill is smarter and far less emotionally unstable.

It killed me that we went from the more terrifying, militaristic, and industrial motif we had in the 90s to weirdos on jetpacks. The only thing they did right about the Shadaloo HQ stage was the music (first round). If they wanted to put a bunch of soldiers it should've been strict like Bison's A2 stage. This is Shadaloo's HQ! The only eccentricity permitted is by the Kings themselves.

Are we talking about the ring of power or Shadaloo HQ? Nvm they are both silly. But the former was done for fun and the esports circuit. It was super hype watching Bison defeat Akuma in the evo finals on that stage. Probably the peak boss moment for the character and vengeance against that troll.

Wouldn't you say that historically speaking it's been about 50/50? Maybe even more joke than grit in tone? This dates back to SF2 at least.

SF5's story according to one of the first ASF interviews with Ono was not meant to be the demise of Bison, it was meant to simply close the gaps between SF2 and SF3, a canonical project that started with SF4. SF5 succeeds in this by explaining away the absence of Shadaloo and setting up the stage for Gill's arrival (right down to the prophecy mentioned in his first SF3 ending). Yes they made a big deal about the destruction of Shadaloo, but not about Bison. We always knew that Bison was not dead during the time of SF3. There is an interview from the early 00s where someone asked a Capcom rep where is Bison and they mentioned that he was alive and/or underground. This was a few years before SF4 IIRC. Things we probably can agree on: 1- Shadaloo is over for the foreseeable future. 2- Bison should not return as a final boss for at least 2 entries in the canon series starting with SF6. 3- They fucked up the climax of SF5 because a 2D game from 2 decades ago had a better Bison climax than this (Alpha3). More or less agree here. He could hypothetically be in the vanilla cast especially if there is a big enough time skip but it would be anticlimactic after SF5. If Bison will be a canonical character in SF6 and not a what-if like Nightmare Geese, then he is best reserved for the mid or late DLC seasons like how they handled Gill and Seth in SF5.

I'm not saying they are bad characters, I am saying I don't care about them. There is nothing to care about. In fact, as an old school player I find their imposition in the series to be appalling because they - like all "Protégé/Kid" characters - are meant to supplant their predecessors and hog the spotlight. That's a hard no for me. Alex and Rashid are great "main characters". Luke is not, and Ed is a damn plot device.

I guess I'll join you then. But only because we need to keep all Psycho Horcruxes™ safe and sound.

You know it's gonna be something shitastic like Luke vs Ed. Like who the fuck cares? Who do you even root for in this situation, let them both die.

It's not a secret! MOVE OVER SAKURA!!!!! I'm getting old but I don't remember this fight. The timeline of events in my headcanon is: Gouken and Gouki are relatively equal, but Goutetsu favors Gouken to take after him. Gouki goes to the forests and trains, comes back as a troll and kills Goutetsu and vows to come back and fight Gouken. Ryu is adopted at this point so he was around when Goutetsu was killed. Ken probably was not. Years later, Akuma comes for Gouken, at this point Ken and Ryu are about 17-19 years old. Akuma "kills" Gouken who falls into a ravine. About 4-5 years later, Gouken returns by the power by Mu and defeats Akuma (to protect Ryu) who retreats and develops new powerful attacks to replace SGS which has no effect on MNK. So it's 1 for 1 AFAIK but someone please correct me if I missed a fight. My suspicion is the next fight between the two will end with Gouken dying because Drama is needed before the end game.

Yes. It's one of the better character stories as we see Akuma actually killing opponents for the first time, and we are lead to believe that he finally lost it since the old Akuma would never kill a sick man. But then he fights Ryu, and stops short of killing him. We are left to ponder if Akuma still has humanity left in him? And why did he spare Ryu? Are they family like the expanded universe points us to? Or is he simply willing to wait out until he reaches his full potential and then fight him. Both?

He got a couple in SF5. He beat Ryu in SF5 after he beat Bison and Necalli, but for some unknown reason does not kill him. He beat and killed Gen in SF5. He also beat Necalli and "killed" him who is supposed to be canonically at least OP. And of course he beat Goutetsu which is also OP. His only actual loss was with Gouken in SF4. So they are 1 for 1 now. He sandbagged his fight with Gen and refused to kill him (this contrasts how he has become in SF5, more inhumane). He also sandbagged the fight with Ryu in SFA2 to plant the seed of the SNH in his ear. He never fought Bison, and the status of his SF3 fights is still unknown. I don't like defending this troll especially after his cheap parlor trick in ST at the expense of 'THE ONE TRUE VILLAIN'™ but he still has something going for him in terms of strength and power.

I was totally thrilled the moment Necalli beat Akuma and swallowed him whole in SF5. Not only was it the moment that Necalli became legitimate at last, but Akuma was finished! Unfortunately, my excitement was shortlived.

SFV Seth took that "identity" and turned it into something incredibly inspired and compelling. Seth was already probably the most interesting and developed character in SF4, and his emergence in SF5 in a female body was very "ear to the ground" of Capcom. I hope we get to see more of him.

Oh I agree. I'm not telling you what I want to happen (which is what you described). I'm saying this is probably what will happen because the foundations for it are kinda there and yes because it is weak.

Better late than never!!! EDIT- Interesting fact, the next time all of the conditions for a Twosday will align in the same way is in the year 2422, 400 years from now. You and I will both be dead... BUT BISON WILL STILL BE ALIVE! A-MAZING!

I think the most interesting thing that can happen to Akuma is to be defeated, physically and/or philosophically then to live with that knowledge. It could be a moment of growth or something that will haunt him. I also suspect they will confirm that he is the father in the future.

If Ryu got the sandals as default, that probably means Akuma lost them - I predict Akuma in SF6 will be even more bestial and closer to Oni as the default. This will help show the progression of both characters down the path of their martial art visually. This also means that we are closer to the final battle between the two, as Ryu stated in Akuma's character story that they will meet at the end of their journey. Which could be this game or the next depending on the length of the timeskip. It will certainly give both characters something to do.

Well a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. What I mean is, while G certainly has the potential in our combined headcanon to be this remarkable new villain once the veil has been lifted - there is no guarantee that Capcom won't fuck it up (See Necalli in general and Bison's final boss fight in SF5). Still I find the Alphabet Company to be more interesting potential villains than the Illuminati at this stage who are just Shadaloo wannabes with a religious twist. I'm fine with this argument if you were to actually take a step back and realize they pretty much turned EVERY character into a parody of themselves, especially of the versions presented in SF2AM. A new game and new era with new direction is the perfect opportunity to reset the tone and presentation of a character if there is a will and proper creative vision behind it (and good writers/VAs!). "Waiting" is not going to change anything, we will know from the first few reveals what is the tone of game, and if it is closer to SF2AM or not in terms of the balance of grit and cartoon. So far, this looks more gritty so maybe everything else including the dialogue is darker and we can get lines like the one you just quoted. You won't find disagreement from me about anything related to SF2AM btw. That movie is like the holy bible for SF fans. But I also would like to highlight SF2AM's final scene is a peak Bison moment - the truck. Because it actually captures the horror aspect of the villain, he always comes back. Even in the Live Action movie, Raul Julia's Bison is revealed to have survived at the end and planning his revenge. This eternal nature of his evil has been in the fabric of the character from the beginning, before Alpha and SF4. The method of his return from the dark, mysterious, to the more sci-fi and weird is up for grabs based on the tone of the tale. The same goes for his "plans". While SF5 did have a more cartoony presentation, who's to say that that is not SF. Is the 60s Batman TV series with Adam West any less Batman than the Dark Knight or the 90s Cartoon series? Is Joaquin's Joker any less or more of a Joker than Ledger's? Hamill? Nicholson? (We won't talk about Leto). My point being is that they are all authentic. My issue with SF5's ASF is just how anti-climactic it was after the way they hyped and individually released it, with Necalli being a dud, Ryu being MIA, Chun-Li being sidelined hard, and Bison coming off as a wizard sometimes rather than a cold blooded fighter who just sent half the world to limbo. There was plenty of opportunity for iconic fights and dialogue, more style and substance, they didn't even have to invent it, they could've cannibalized their own media and repackaged it for the mainstream - but alas it was what it was. A noble attempt that still fell short. Taking it back to SF6, I've been trying to find the Daigo Ikeno sketches of Future Bison. I know there are two in existence but I only found one: Gimme dat unrestraint will to power!!!!

Ono tried to reconcile the Old Canon with the new, he tried to re-tell some of the parts that needed to be retold, and he tried to close the gap and tie the loose ends. If you know the old canon intimately, you will see that the team behind the SF4 and SF5 stories had intimate knowledge too, they respected the old lore, but their execution was subpar and needlessly choppy in relation to SF's contemporaries. Relative to its own history however, SF4 and SF5 did it best. Ono is quite literally the best thing that has happened to the SF canon since Alpha3's arcade mode.

The ink is back so I hope there is more of that in the actual game by way of artstyle and mechanic, especially now that the technology is able to deliver it fluidly. Unless you mean they will actually add the third dimension to the fights in which case we're all doomed.