DoctaMario

WEEZY F BABY WHAT THE GOD DAMN FUCK WTF WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT!?!?!?!?!

Holy shit I was just watching some of my old SFV matches on YT and the level of play is downright embarrassing. I’m bouta delete some of these lol 

Coming from someone who had extensive experience with all the 3D Era games 
 
Hsu Hao - wack. Just a generic evil Chinese/North Korean general design 
Mavado - sick, but they ultimately didn't do anything substantial with the whole Red Dragon vs Black Dragon plot, plus he stole the twin hooks from Cabal and his rubber moves suck 
Nitara - sick, new race, lots of pore to explore, cool design, gimme more 
Frost - literally female sub-zero, trash 
Bo Rai Cho - brought back for X, but way underutilised in the Earthrrealm vs Outworld dynamic, also get rid of the puking/farting, it's just silly now 
Drahmin/Moloch - wack, they're just Oni demons from Netherrealm, served no further purpose besides being Quan Chi's servants 
Kobra - wack, felt like a lame attempt at MK's own Ken Masters, but I do appreciate creating brand new Black Dragon members so E have somebody else besides just Kano since Jarek was so fucking underwhelming in MK4
Kira - literally female Kano, trash
Darius/Dairou - resistance members in the realm of Order which you'd think is supposed to be the good place as opposed to Realm of Chaos but Orderrealm is actually a fascist regime, so it's a great subversion. Characters need to be improved, but the foundation is solid 
Hotaru - sick, literally the leader of essentially a dictatorship despite the name of the realm he's from, has a great design, can serve both as an anti-hero and a good antagonist, bring him back 
Havik - by far the best character in this era. Awesome design, interesting moveset, can be expanded upon with a backstory, represents a Realm that has no other characters in the rosters of MK9-11, despite being kind of a dick he's also kinda chill and established a simple cult of followers embracing Chaos 
Ashrah - garbage design but super interesting concept that doesn't really has much to it and the entire development of her personal story happens offscreen. In the Netherrealm chapter of Konquest we meet her, she teaches us some fighting skills, then she approaches Ermac to finally free herself, and we don't see her at all until arriving to Edenia where she's just... An npc with a single challenge/mission fight. Wow. 
Onaga - fucking based. True emperor of Outworld, amazing design, fools a teenage boy to do his bidding for like 50 years and manipulating events around, and then returns like a boss. 
Shujinko - kind of a generic design, gets disrespected and written in a rather dumb/gullible way, but clearly has his own character, ideals and a moral compass, not to mention occasionally showing just enough sass like trolling Baraka. Redesign him and he's a great addition to the roster 
Li Mei - by far the saddest story in all of MK and arguably the character with most stakes and best motivation to be involved with the plot, even though she doesn't have much to do with the overall story of the three games. Really sucks she basically gets shat on in all of her endings, but damn her design in Deception was AWESOME. They kinda brought her back in X and.... Didn't do shit with her. Completely wasted, needs to be given a proper second chance 
Daegon/Taven - both fall a bit flat despite having an entire story and a game mode dedicated to them plus Daegon's design is a bit in the generic side (actually reminds me of Shap somewhat), but I did like Taven and how even though he's the protagonist of Armageddon, he's not exactly a "hero" hero and can be very selfish or egotistic, which is almost opposite to Shujinko. Wouldn't mind to see either of the two brought back but they need more of a Dante/Vergil dynamic IMO, like you don't even get to fight Daegon until the very end of Konquest 
 

The hot MK news yall been waiting for has arrived
 
they gonna patch last of us to put in a mk2 shirt
 

With a few exceptions, most MK fans seem to get zero fucks about 3D Era characters. Havok and Nitara are couple exceptions though. I liked Ashrah personally. She has this angelic appearance but she's really demon with a conscience. She hunted demons with magical dagger and sought to cleanse the realms of evil. I thought she was a cool concept. Moreso than Havok or Nitara personally. I don't have issue with Havok, he seems like a solid character. Nitara just seemed uninteresting to me. I expected a more interesting design from a MK vampire.

Fair.   Why punish a zoner who's losing to a grappler whom can TOD you if she wants to stand at the edge of the skyscraper and review her life choices?
 
The icies player don't need any help here.   
 
A brief glimpse at twitter and it seems most of the scene is on the TO's case for that, but the TO is doubling down on his dumbfuckery.  (The tweet showing that TO's player record at 35% winrate, "this TO has no patience in anything" is hilariously on point tho) 
 
 
 
 

imo that smash ruleset should be put into SF
 
if I see Guile or Honda just crouching not doing anything for a few seconds its delay of game and I want them banned

This scene is filled with a bunch of [words I can't say because it's not the early 00's anymore] 

1994 was when Super Turbo came out. There were a lot of fighting games being released both in arcade and console. Lots of fighting games that never left Japan as well.
 
Looking at a list for popular fighting games around 1994:
 
Super Turbo
Tekken 1
Killer Instinct
Virtua Fighter 1
Samurai Shodown 1 and 2
Kof 94
Primal Rage
Mortal Kombat 2
Darkstalkers
And a shit ton of home console releases
 
 
I think of that brief list I pulled up from Google search, probably ST and those Neo Geo games hold up the best today.

Well about that.....

There's a lot that SF2 did right that also feels right to do. But also, you know, they broke absolutely new ground. They also just made up characters for the sake of making them. So it wasn't like they necessarily went in thinking some stuff out.
 
But goddamn, so much about what we know is good in 2D FG from the strategic side comes from that game.  Hell even to how walkspeeds, normals, fireballs feel etc.
 
Some shit got out of hand on accident or because they didn't understand how powerful it would be, but boy did they do a whole lot right in that game for it being the first one.

There are definitely artifacts of bad particularly in World Warrior but let’s not act like Capcom didn’t quickly figure out those growing pains hence the constant title updates. There’s a reason games like HF, ST and even USF2 still feel good to play. It just works on a basic level. 

I'm probably overthinking this, but looking at how videogames are perceived in the overall mainstream space and how little effort is being made to educate (most likely due to a lack of interest and the barrier of entry), it will become increasingly difficult when the medium matures and its audience simultaneously becoming younger, to properly educate about its roots. Not only because there's not much efficiently presented and chronicled data to go on online, but also because of the interactive element.
Also, how do you show someone the importance of SF2 for 1on1 fighting games or Mario 64 for movement in a 3D space? You can't do it passively because it just looks like an old game to them, but if you ask someone to play them, it'll just (rightfully) feel really archaic. You basically have to take the word for it that, yes, those game were massively impactful. But unless you go back yourself, compared release dates, play what came before and what came after, there's really no reason to subjectively arrive at that same conclusion. On the other hand, you can just put someone in front of Citizen Kane for two hours and they'll get it.

James Chen started that shit of calling ST Kusoge.
 
Honestly sometimes James Chen just has to shut the fuck up. And I say that with all due respect.

What the hell does kusoge even mean anymore? I feel like sf2 for it's time was leaps and bounds beyond most other games, especially the later entries like HF, ST. Maybe kusoge is contextual lol.

SF2 isn't overrated at all at least as far as its importance to the genre is concerned but it's undeniably kusoge 

Im not a sf guy but even I know sf2 is the pioneer of fighting games, anyone who says sf2 is overrated is most likely mad his favorite games aren't as popular as sf, it's obvious. 

I think this is highly dependent on the age of the gamers in question. For anyone who’s been gaming a long time (like 20+ years) and remembers what it was like before patches/updates became common, I’d say you’re correct. But for a lot of the younger gen who has only known the DLC/live service era, I’m not so sure. 
 
New gamers are pretty quick to drop games labeled “dead” regardless of the actual content already in the game. I’ve seen people not even give games they’ve never played  a chance because they’re dead even tho the entire game would be fresh content to them. Or people claiming they would drop a game if support ended bc if it isn’t getting anything new in the future what’s the point? 

TALK THAT REAL SHlT NIGGA

The real redpill is that all the Kusoge bullshit people liked back in the gap is not worth the effort to go back to and because dev's got better and player feed back is more connected than it's ever been. Like you said DNF is filled with head ass bullshit but no one plays it and it has muh rollback. The truth is that no one wants to go back to that shit. It just feels nice to larp as an OG and never having to worry about being called out because It's not like random doujin fighter from the 90's has online to see if you were really about that. So I never take these fool seriously when they spout about the good ol days.

Yeah, that's what I meant about the Busted Game Subgenre. You have specialists like SonicFox and GO1, and to a lesser extent people like Nerdjosh, but like you and Sonero said, after you see it once, you gradually and sometimes rapidly want to see it less because of that degeneracy.  

SG an ugly, nasty lil game is all it is lol
 
The people who love it really love it and they have some star power bc sonicfox loves it and goes to bat for it, but really the game falls into the trap sonero mentioned where it is just too degen for anyone but demonic fg enjoyers. I dont think its niche for any reason besides its own gameplay (and i guess the artstyle but these days people are into that right...?)

Your pat on the back is appreciated, sir.
 
DNF, BFTG and Skullgirls have a playerbase but as you said, they have a lot more going for it where they should be a lot bigger than they are. DNF in particular has ArcSys' marketing and street cred behind it but I don't think this new update is going to do anything more than be a blip that quickly goes back to a near flatline. BFTG community appeals to the Busted Game subgenre that isn't nearly as big as people would like to say it is. I pushed it largely due to loyalty to the PR brand and the notion that it was still early in its life and balance wasn't final, then the devs and community insisted it only get even more broken and now high level matches tend to look very similar to each other in terms of how the flow unfolds, which was the opposite of the feedback I gave them based on what Arturo's viewers wanted to see. Skullgirls is weird because they'll randomly get a big number of players competing but despite how many chances it gets to shine, it never feels like it SHINES. I think it's the BFTG issue but on a bigger scale: everyone wants to be MVC2 but it's ignoring the fact that MVC2 by in large was a beneficiary of being in the right place at the right time: you had an enthusiastic voice like Yipes providing a backing track of wild stuff that no one else had seen before featuring characters that were etched in our gaming and comic culture. If MVC2 hadn't featured the company or the characters, would anyone really be buzzing about it? Probably not.
 
With SFxT, and even TMNTxJL and MVCI, a lot of the success I've seen with pushing those games have come from the notion that they are legitimately good games while also being coherent enough where anyone can tell what's going on and it not be immediately met with "Wow that looks really unfair." By my own admittance, a lot of my BFTG commentary was focusing on being Ranger/Tokusatsu fan first because what else am I going to fill in space for a combo that goes on forever until it's dropped, either on accident or to set up a reset/unblockable? But with the other games I rep, it's as you said, the gameplay hits well enough to an observer that you can go "wow this is expert level play at the commentator is doing a great job explaining the offense and defense implemented in the shifts!" 

I'd love if Ryoko from Fighters History made it over since her series is defunct.
 
But that would be less a guest appearance these days than just a straight up adoption. 🥺
 
She's judoka, a grappler with moderate walk speed, tiny body, stubby limbs, high floaty jump, a charge back move that rolls forward through projectiles, and two command grabs that overlap each other, range deciding which.  Not a grappler type I've seen around before.

For me it’s real dependent on things like what game it is, who the guest is, what they play like, who’s on the current roster, how many characters are in the game, etc. 
 
Like I’ll give some examples.
 
Sub-Zero in Injustice 2: OK. His moveset fits in well enough in the game and his ice powers feel right at home in a cast full of super heroes while still being somewhat unique. Being a character from another game the devs produce and that has similar gameplay Sub fit right in imo, especially since DC vs MK was a thing. 
 
Terminator in MK11: Trash tier. Very generic moveset that feels like a typical NRS gun character instead of enthusiastically conveying his nature as a killer robot from the future. Added in at a point in the game where there were still cool legacy characters missing. Poorly animated to the point of being a meme. Feels like that character was put in the game strictly as a moving ad to generate buzz instead of an actually cool addition to the roster.
 
I’m not vehemently against guest characters, I just find it jarring when it’s done poorly.