CESTUS III

13 hours ago, Daemos said:

Bison is scum to Akuma, and Akuma is scum to Gouken. 

Yeah but i don't know how it apply for what i'm saying 

 

Gouken disprect Akuma because he's a piece of shit and all the moral thing about SnH, to not mention sending him on coma/whatever, killing their Master, trying to ruin Ryu's life

 

Akuma disprect Bison because he's a cheater (wich Akuma associate with weakness/cowardice), doubt he care much he's piece of shit too 

 

I'm not saying Akuma is in the position of judge anybody's morals, just that cheater shit is the reason of him see Bison as scum, simple straightforward fact 

 

13 hours ago, Daemos said:

Akuma is closer to Bison, but if he knew how to harness outer human conflict like Bison (who mixes both skill and science to do this) he probably would eventually as that is the nature of the power he seeks. 

That's about the opposite of what Akuma character is tbh 

Require to get power from others is an admission of weakness (you are'nt enough by yourself) and the negation of everything he believe lol 

 

13 hours ago, Daemos said:

Look at Necalli for example, he's been at it for centuries and now he's literally eating people. 

It's been hinted that Necalli is'nt even human, so you're basically blaming a snake because he does snake shit 

 

His human look come fron having eat/absorbed the warrior prophet 

 

13 hours ago, Daemos said:

The path towards this kind of power will make you do things you may not have intended to do (see Akuma killing Gen for example vs Akuma refusing to before).

that's true but in line with what Akuma path is, does'nt bring him closer to Bison ideals aside on where they stand the piece of shit scale  

 

They will  keep being very distinct characters with opposite approach, the difference will just be that people will be more inclined to recognize Akuma as simply evil rather than neutral-with-moral-code-that-make-him-kill-people

7 hours ago, Daemos said:

It's no more of a cheat than Gill and Urien's GMO bullshit. I also don't think that was Nash, that was Nash imbued with Gill's powers. He too had a "cheat trick".

Of course Gill/Urien/SFVNash are cheaters too, they're artificial enhanced

 

Bison, Gill, Urien, Nash, Necro and anybody else that got the boost.

We can add also weapon users and these that get external help like Mika, Akira or Juni&Juli(Team version)

 

Anything that is'nt the natural character body and ki is cheating away from the fair fist fight

 

But even accepting some kind of manga/anime combat philosophy where some stuff is somehow still fair game and whatever a character declare his fighting style can be sold as "martial art" (HnK or Baki are good example of all above stuff not making much outrage), you have next level cheater stuff wich is have artificial shit breaking the very core dynamic of "two fighters clash, who fight better win"

 

Bison in ASF is next level cheating, he lose the fight but the machine charge him back to a position of advantage, that's worse than anything above because it change the result of the fight itself

Similar level of cheater bullshit is Gill using Resurrection when he lose

 

Elena healing does it in fair way, she's 100% natural, the technique is surely based on her own ki and she can only do it when she did'nt lost yet

 

15 hours ago, Daemos said:

Oro is the only top tier character not using shortcuts, he paid his dues with over a century of training. Ryu is destined to be Oro 2 but in half the time probably because he is genetically gifted.

Akuma, Bison, Gill, Seth, etc. are all using shortcuts to gain and maintain power/strength and they each have their own rationalization for the shortcut which checks out from their worldview. They pay a heavy price for it whether they know it or not. I wouldn't call it a cheat trick, it's a bargain and it either pays off or it doesn't.

As much i dislike Akuma he's not a cheater, everything he use in a fight is his body and his own ki... SnH is corrupted ki but is still his energy, never used any artificial device to increase it or get extra dose of  it in case of need

You may call it shortcut because indeed allowed him to get stronger quickly, but still it can be compared to a different way of training

 

Difference between Akuma and Bison is like if to go faster in a foot race, the former started training in an atypical method that allow him to run faster, the latter got bunch of scientist to build him high-tech rollerblades... smarter for sure, but is not run anymore (wich is likely the ideological reason of why Akuma consider Bison scum)

 

Only way Akuma would be a cheater too (even if an involuntary one) can be if Capcom chose to change the current canon and retcon the nature of SnH, making that embrace it create a connection with some sort of external demonic entity that gift the fighter extra power... but reality is at the moment does'nt seem the case

Good way to understandd the nature of SnH, "Kage" is NOT a demon

Ryu visualize it as some sort of demon but Kage is still just a part of Ryu... by "his" own definition, "i'm the strongest part of you"

SnH is just result of human inner conflict, does'nt need supernatural external help to develop

 

20 hours ago, Daemos said:

Anyway, I do think that Urien and Gill are on the same level in terms of skill and power (at least they are in SF5), but Gill is smarter and far less emotionally unstable.

I think on athletical level they're about even and possibly the best in whole cast, as they're literally designed to incarnate ultimate superhuman olympic athletes concept... that and the fact that Secret Society did 99 things on them before and after birth to obtain what they consider the highest peak an human can reach

 

Of course, not the best at every single specific athletical feat, as we have extreme characters that focused/specialized on this or that particular direction... but overall?

As overall score of power/speed/agility etc they probably rank first

I can see characters like Oro or Akuma being able of even greater shit, but there his their enormous ki allowing them to do so, not classic "athleticism"

 

Outside that i think on ki and maybe skill pov, i think that Gill > Urien and that Urien has been intentionally designed to be a toned-down, weaker and more human version of his brother, both on gameplay and canon wise

There's bunch of stuff that makes me think so, but that would take another post

 

By the way for what's worth Urien is one of my fav SF characters and Gill is'nt, but still i stick to what i see/know and not to what i wish

 

14 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

I feel that with the troopers, most of them should have been like the beret guys fought in India with their sleeves rolled up. I was also hoping we got more of the Troopers that were a tribute to the movie Bison troopers, that would have been cool. The only real place I'd put the comical guys is in the fight scene where FANG is showing off how he can put psycho power in others and Vega and Rog destroy them, other than that, they should have been anything but buffoonish.

Tbh i'm ok with the one they picked, the half face covered allo capcom to spam them, they could still have done like 5 different standard faces imho, to increase the illusion of them being unique

 

I liked the design you say (red berets one right?) but being completely maskless make it harder use them in great number without be too blatant on duplication of the models, like fight an army of twins/clones 😄

Him as low level official works, they could have done also there like 5 face variations and use them as the leaders of small groups of the usual troops

 

All that and again, PLEASE give them fucking weapons. Even "legit" SF characters use weapons, lmao at shit tier soldiers having to fight fair with punches and kicks

For punks in Final Fight made bit more sense because urban gang context (lot of them used weapons though), shadaloo guys are an army

If i could change shada-soldiers, that's what i would do:

 

- color scheme: fuck the bright azure, make them darker, more like a shade somewhere between blue and gray

 

- design: keep Bison-inspired steel protections they already have, just give them also something for the torso to sell they will not crumble at first body shot, simple black sleveless bulletproof jacket would do the trick. Also put a firearm weapon on them, be a gun on the hip or a rifle on the back

 

-weapons: my biggest issue, give them a melee weapon that may justify even bother fight them... if knife feel "too violent" to developers (but good guy Cody does it lol) at least give them a fucking baton. Then give them a special move where they use the firearm, just like Fevrier does or with similar dynamic of when Falke use the stick as a rifle.

Could have made even the fight themselves bit more fun, giving them long range specials

 

7 hours ago, Daemos said:

The only salvageable soldier designs are possibly the Gold Skulls who reminded me of Emperor Palpatines elite guard, and therefore can be allowed some semblance of eccentricity.

Yes, i agree the skull ones were good, they could have used them much more

On general they had bunch of concepts they never used that could have been nice in ASF, war on shadaloo could have been waaay more interesting and could have got more unique fights that could have gave some more spotlight to characters that did'nt had much

 

This not counting the robots we see in Bison stage, could have been used too

 

Plus my biggest regret, they could have this to try stop Zangief, even have Shadaloo logo on the chest lol

Not that Gief did'nt had awesome treatment in ASF, i was surprised by how good he got it in SFV (even up to imply Gief>Shadaking Rog), but still would have been awesome Godzilla-MechaGodzilla scrap LOL

 

 

2 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

Urien is probably as powerful than Gill since he beat him way back when, but his emotional instability clouds his focus and Gill may be more varied with his options and so stoic thus getting the upper hand. I could be wrong.

That was likely a Gill trolljob, he knew he was going to be the Emperor so he let his brother win the President fight, likely to let Urien win something too (wich made Urien even more angry lol)... the hate it's not mutual

 

We also know a loss to Chun Li, but tbh for the little we know seems he treated their fight as some sort of little game for his own amusement, not sure how much we can consider it serious fight (while Chun was motivated af, fighting to free Li Fen)... as usual SF lore drop many hints but rarely show straight things

 

About how Urien scale next to the cast, comparing him to SFV Bosses

 

In SFV Gill seem way less inclined at do the fake-loss gimmick of Sf3 days (though he joke about it in quote vs Gief) and he's able to defeat Urien (and G) without much effort, outcome feels so one-sided that Urien is left on his ass crying about being impossible for him to defeat Gill

 

I think he would have at least decent chance against Bison if he did'nt had Black Moons cheat trick, for one round motivated Nash managed to get upper hand over Bison before BM completely recharged him

But idk, Bison may be too smart for somebody so pride-driven, Urien feels classic kind of guy that would fall in a trap lol

 

Would surely think he (Urien) have greater power than Sagat, but unsure how a fight would go as japan does big deal about morals etc and new post-shadaloo Sagat started to "walk the right path", while Urien still have head full of shit... can see Capcom giving it to Sagat just to make a moral point, but if redemption gimmick is'nt involved and it's villain vs villain i say sure af money on Urien

 

Guess he wrecks SF4 Seth. Not clear to me how much SFV tranny Seth improved compared to his SF4 self- though. But considering is Seth 2.0 would not be THAT surprised to see new model being overrated trash again. For what's worth he does'nt win any story scrap in V, just have mental meltdown in the middle of his fights

 

Think he likely fuck up G. We seen G beating bunch of middle-tier people, but end up with ass on the ground as soon he faced higher level with Gill and Rose

 

7 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

So many fight quotes refer to Urien fighting like nothing they've ever seen, even the vets, so here Rashid not only saw him in action, he saw him utterly demolish Charlie, but still grabbed his arm to stop him.

Random thought, but just to add, Urien is indeed supposed to be very powerful character (i have kinda specific idea how much, but would trigger debate lol) and beside show how much Rashid is willing to risk to help others, dimostrated a lot how good character he is with the simple action he did: does'nt try to challenge Urien or confront him like a fighter would do, he focus with whole body on stop Urien's arm and try to reason with him like  a normal person would do, like "c'mon dude, he's down you already won"

 

Btw what crack me up of that scene is Urien knowing Rashid is some kind of rich af arabian prince (even having with him his own bodyguard/servant) and still he's like "don't touch me commoner" and thinks would be ok just wreck him and his butler even if they just "hired" them lol

And Kolin being like "Lord Urien please don't kill these people" and him being like "eh whatever"

 

in ASF they did Urien better with a single scene than many other characters(poor Necalli) that had much more screen time... and his Story Mode was pretty good portrait too

 

5 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Completely disagree.  I enjoyed the hell out of ASF's crazy anime tone.  It's way more fun than MK9+'s melodramatic attempts at seriousness.

I don't have problems with light heart anime nonsense here and there neither, my problem was that SFV seem unable to realize where should be better don't be like that

 

Like i'm fine if for some reason we need pink ninjas and bizzarre robots chasing each others in silly way, but maybe the fucking Final Boss room is'nt the place to do it

 

Like again why the fuck Shadaloo army was made of bright azure comical douchebags, instead offer some thratening vibes

It's like they tried make it like Metal Slug enemy army (who still wear a more serious color scheme btw), but it does it worse and SF is'nt supposed to have same vibes where the satyrical touch is used with much more finesse to make fun of war nonsense

 

In comparision SF just come of as stupid tbh

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

SF5's story according to one of the first ASF interviews with Ono was not meant to be the demise of Bison, it was meant to simply close the gaps between SF2 and SF3, a canonical project that started with SF4. SF5 succeeds in this by explaining away the absence of Shadaloo and setting up the stage for Gill's arrival (right down to the prophecy mentioned in his first SF3 ending). Yes they made a big deal about the destruction of Shadaloo, but not about Bison.

We always knew that Bison was not dead during the time of SF3. There is an interview from the early 00s where  someone asked a Capcom rep where is Bison and they mentioned that he was alive and/or underground. This was a few years before SF4 IIRC.

And i don't disagree with that, i'm just pointing that in current canon they chosen to have him destroyed to add further drama to the moment, and the whole idea of Ed/NS representing the shattered pieces of that evil is brilliant way to handle it, goes beyond Ed being just a younger/edgy new version of him... would say Ed literally incarnating the aftermath make to Bison's legacy a better favor than any instant "mwhaahawa i'm back" gimmick that will make people only more annoyed by Bison spam

 

I also loved the idea of Psycho Power having a negative impact on the world without need directly Bison, feels like say that the problem with a nuclear bomb is not only the missile and the destructive BOOM that comes with it, but the radiations afterwards

 

This not only important for Bison because it further add the damage he did, but show how Psycho Power can represent a great threat beyond direct fighting itself, a field where we already seen Bison getting defeated more than once... at this point is clear Bison's image is being threated more like G (who still have to do shit, and already lost twice... and still seem to currently represent world's greatest danger) than Akuma's

 

Half OT, from Rose's story and i have the feel that

(theory)

-The artificial creation of an excess of Psycho Power cause an imbalance on earth's natural energies, and that's causing the planet(Gaia) to react against humanity like our body would try to defeat a virus (wich can parallel easily with modern/trendy theme of earth pollution)

-The great danger represented by G may take the form of a Great Flood (like the biblical one, wich exist in many cultures) that would whipe out/reset civilization and left very few (if any) humans alive.

Rose say "As if gigantic glacer fell into the ocean" -> rising oceans -> Great Flood

G power takes the form of magma, so if they want stick to it maybe Gaia's purge will be eruptions causing rising of temperature -> ice melting -> ocean rise

-I doubt G will directly trigger it or even have the power to do so, more like he will try oppose anybody that will try to stop these events to happen. I think his ki absolute tuning with the planet energies took over his mind making him crazy and fanatic, but not "evil" wich is an human concept

 

Or maybe opposite disaster and Rose describe it as glacier related to describe a new ice age, similar results even if Great Flood for many reasons makes more sense to me

 

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

Things we probably can agree on:

 

1- Shadaloo is over for the foreseeable future.

2- Bison should not return as a final boss for at least 2 entries in the canon series starting with SF6.

3- They fucked up the climax of SF5 because a 2D game from 2 decades ago had a better Bison climax than this (Alpha3).

Yeah we agree on these

About point 3, aside me not liking ASF story whole structure and events, i think there was also a simple straightforward technical problem about how has been represented... essentially Bison defeat/destruction looked like ass

 

Not that on general capcom did that epic effort at do spectacular cutscene fights, but let's just compare how they handledRyu vs Necalli and Bison (latter being more important/bigger fight according to the script)

 

Ryu-Necalli -> cool af, Ryu goes DBZ, break his SnH related limits and finish Necalli with a completely new(ingame canon) ultimate technique that does shiny big bang

Ryu-Bison -> Bison throw one last silly attack, Ryu strainght tanks it with no much effort, replies with a kinda normal looking hadouken (a shinku hadouken if we want be generous) and that's it

 

Now, was very cool that afterward scene have him die standing like ultimate Chad Raoh (HnK), exploding due inner incompatible light/energy like Straizo (JoJo)... but still, his defeat coreography looked like shit

 

I get they did'nt wanted spam twice the Mu no Ken punch he just did on Nec, but they could have tried something to hype up shit. Maybe go Shin SHoryuken route, never fail to look awesome lol

 

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

More or less agree here. He could hypothetically be in the vanilla cast especially if there is a big enough time skip but it would be anticlimactic after SF5. If Bison will be a canonical character in SF6 and not a what-if like Nightmare Geese, then he is best reserved for the mid or late DLC seasons like how they handled Gill and Seth in SF5.

Yeah as said i would prefer the latter option i gave, maybe wait more in terms of seasons DLC but pick a physical Bison again, that take places AFTER all important SF6 events, whatever they will be

 

Mostly because even if we have already plenty of material to build a "Ghost Bison" kind of shit, these spiritual level characters are ass and their interaction with living one "real" ones generate confusion, see people still believing that SnH fart Kage (lol) have a physical body

 

Just take looong pause in terms of seasons, wait SF6 events done their run, then show Renfield/Fang doing his scifi shit to bring him back to physical world... but in a weakened state, not ready to do anything big in SF7 beyond plan and recover/try to surpass his past self

 

6 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

I don't dislike Rashid. In fact, I have his SH Figuarts. What I hate is SF's INSANE obsession with making almost everyone a joke or a caricature in a way that undermines the stakes and narrative they're trying to create. It's so stupid.

Yeah, SFA did some silly things too (Sakura, Dan, SFA3 Blanka and Karin comes to mind), but there was more a sense of split wich characters are extremely serious from wich are there to bring fun

 

SF4 has been the first where everything felt infested by "let's get silly, is fun" mindset, and despite i'm usually an Ono defender, it's safe bet point at him for that

 

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

Wouldn't you say that historically speaking it's been about 50/50? Maybe even more joke than grit in tone? This dates back to SF2 at least.

Tbh aside some parody stuff SF2 was mostly serious

 

6 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

Then compare to SFAlpha where stuff is treated seriously. The core narratives and threat and drama is treated as legitimate. Since at least SF4, Capcom has had an obsession with undermining a lot of their own stuff and it's really annoying. Tekken is KNOWN for its joke endings but treats its CORE narrative as serious and dramatic. SF just can't seem to handle that because it veers too much into cartoon stupidity and OHHHH SOOOO WACKY moments

 

I'm not against humor or for any kind of grim-dark tone...I just wish SF didn't seem so often like it was putting itself down

This. Let's be real,  the soldiers that were supposed to bring terror to the world were specifically designed to be COMICAL instead threatening (design, colors, behaviour), and fought -bad- with punches and kicks instead try use all that immense arsenal of weapons/vehicles they have

 

If we compare the vibes to SFA Nash getting shot in the back by fucking chopter gatling, contrast should give an idea of where SFV end up

 

 

 

 

But tbh whole Rashid gimmick is being middle-tier char with the heart in the right place who jump in to do his part, barely even show a "fighter"/martial artist side, behave more like some sort of not too serious adventurer

 

Even when he win his most important fight where for a moment they change him into a serious fighter type, it was an unnatural/rare mood for him, as was the reaction of hear Fang telling that he killed his friend

 

Personally i liked him, probably because i never considered him "shonen hero" kind of guy, but more like side character that help how he can... probably most "human" char

Like, he's not the guy that will beat the Boss, but he will still risk his ass doing useful stuff

 

I liked the scene where he try to stop Urien from  further beat up/kill Nash, gave the impression he knew he was really outmatched but still did a move

 

 

6 hours ago, Sonero said:

Watching d44bas streaming A3 and...

 

I really hope SF6 has a new doll. Feel like there were some good doll designs that should've been characters and were relegated to story mode fodder.

Save one between

 

Better Noembelu (native american one) on the left, can replace T.Hawk as NA char and i will be ok with it, plus Elena can cover tribal girl already and have more interessing style for SF with her Capoeira

 

The rest of dolls

10 hours ago, Daemos said:

I'm not saying they are bad characters, I am saying I don't care about them. There is nothing to care about. In fact, as an old school player I find their imposition in the series to be appalling because they - like all "Protégé/Kid" characters - are meant to supplant their predecessors and hog the spotlight. That's a hard no for me. 

Alex and Rashid are great "main characters". Luke is not, and Ed is a damn plot device.

Don't know why make it old school player thing, i'm born in '83 and have incurable nostalgia for SF2, i still don't close my mind to new stuff

 

I HATED it being done in antagonistic way as SF3 was denying the chance of get classic chars, but i doubt we risk that shit again, pretty sure SF6 will be filled by familiar faces too... if anything teaser gave me vibes will play hard on old guard vs new blood contrast, wich feels why SF3 should have done back in the days

 

Alex at least visually was indeed better character design than Luke, but that's a problem of SF as a whole, not of Luke... SF seem simply no more able to design shit as good as past ones, not even best SFV new designs are on par with best SFA, SF3 and even SF4 best stuff

If i must pick the design crap that's SFV Alex (to use more fair ground) i take Luke 10/10, and that's me who consider original Alex one of best chara designs of SF3

 

But story wise? Alex was handled like shit (not bad as many many others, but still)

Whole SF3 arc has been treated like shit, they gave him an ambiguous W over Gill hinting situation was sketchy as if they had to continue story to explain it, then SF just gone beyond SF3 and all Alex is left with an half ass "W" that may very well be usual Gill's trolling

 

Rashid is not a protagonist (a good character btw), any "Hero of SFV" talk some did back to ASF was delusional, Rashid is pretty much quintessence of supporting side character with lot screen time.

Damn Rashid was'nt even the protagonist of his mini-sub group and clearly the weakest of it (unless we want count Hazam, who MAY be weaker than Rashid... or not lol) and everybody in that russian pub room -Urien/Kolin/Juri/Nash- would moop the ground with his ass, with little effort while at it

 

Luke as protagonist at least have the chance to be a fresh new page... of course, they can very well fuck his story too, as nobody beat Capcom at create great characters and completely waste their potential, it's basically a lifestyle for them

 

But at least bother to wait and see before claim he failed already as character, and even after that realize the problem maybe is'nt the new character itself being bad, but SF having pathetic storytelling sense and poor self awareness (best lore though)

 

On other side speaking about Ed, Ed in SFV was handled wrong (like COMPLETELY wrong) starting from the fact he even have wrong timeline design,as we should have got him with his hoodie/tracksuit costume as default together with young asshole attitude he have, while NS uniform Ed should have been at best an alt because canon wise it should have been a thing of the future and supported by a change of attitude (way more serious/sinister as Bison influence is taking over)

 

I understand and agree Kiki's urban clothes designs were too flat shitty to be use as standard, but still was objectively wrong choice give us Ed in his NS version

They should just have focused on give him actually good and detailed young/urban clothes version of him (something closer to Luke's Battle Alt) able to stand as his standard look

Other reason is of course they wanted that hard him and Falke have that visual connection because japan sometimes just feel the need of this kind of shit

(guess is also the reason lore is infested by these silly Dolls, who despite being mostly bland and repetitive designs somehow have an audience due waifu power)

 

But still they can fix him in 6, and reality is Ed is a solution to a problem that Capcom itself caused with their refusal to left their comfort zone, they should just have made SFV about Necalli or G as final villain (in my opinion there was room even for both, if capcom could handle different paths at same time) and make Bison a side figure that plan shit in a corner as he was in SF4 or as Gill is in SFV

 

If was like that nobody would be too pissed at Bison even in SF6 vanilla cast, only reaction i remember when was announced in SFV was people -me included- saying his V redesign while soft was cool af

 

But they made Bison the final boss once more, they made him lose once more and they even made big deal about his destruction... now, we know he's not dead dead, but still have him quickly return would make everything even more a farce than how already was

Plus of course, basically nobody wants Bison anywhere close to Boss position for years

 

Guess we will get the NeoShadaloo arc where fully influenced Ed will need to get punch-to-the face exorcism, after wich PP will somehow (Soul Power?) be expelled from his body (and from Falke/Knife/Gorilla too) then you will have Fang there somehow using it to resurrect Bison

 

In all of this i hope Ed is'nt even final boss, because while not Bison-Bison would still be too fucking much Shadaloo/PP related, and just as stronk japan bullshit that another side where SF would need to get wider perspective

 

I think G is the perfect Boss for SF6 (unless we get NEW better candidate) as for once shows the threat come from a new (and original/interesting) direction

 

Smartest path they can take for the actual Bison DLC charater (because i refuse to think he will be on vanilla cast) is either use Bison in his spirit form that lives in NS members heads or -better- in VERY late seasons have Fang doing experiments to have Bison in a new physical body stepping out of some silly scifi incubator tank to do  his "mwhahahawa" before SF6 is over, but that's it

 

Reality is if done right (big IF)  Ed arc may easily be more interesting than Bison's return

 

Change of attitude (time jump+PP problems), SF6 redesign (wich will go surely into more serious direction) and moveset that reflect he learned to use better his powers... a fixed Ed may end up better character than you give him credit for, the potential is there

 

Now, i get i'm saying "hey Buddha can be cool too, good change for a while" to the Pope, but still

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Mr.Cipher said:

Whats next, wanna say Blanka is a good looking guy.

In his defense Blanka come from Hokuto no Ken's Madara...

 

...and Tiger Mask's Gorilla-Man

 

Dude never had much chances to be a cutie LOL

 

 

3 hours ago, BootyWarrior said:

 

He lost to Gouken when Ryu and Ken were teenagers. So it's 2-1 in Gouken's favor. All those years where Gouken "died", Akuma was training, only to lose to Gouken who just woke up from his sleep.

 

My only wish is for Capcom to put Garuda in SF6. Either Akuma loses badly or he spends the entire series running away from it like he did in SFEX.

As hilarious would be, fuck Garuda too, would be just more stronk japan

Would give me "it takes stronk japan to beat stronk japan" Baki style circle jerk philosophy

 

Apex of SF food chain already is filled with stronk japan, i think at the moment a good guess on who are the Top 5 may have 4 out 5 lol

 

Oro, Akuma, Gouken (?), Gill (?), Ryu (?)

 

@YagamiFire idea of Gill being the one giving Akuma an ass beating would be already something less Baki and a little step to return in that old SF feel of world being big place full of powerful fighters

 

Had hopes for Necalli when trailer vs Ryu was showing him "eating" Ryu's SnH, could have been perfect candidate to pull a Garuda on Akuma... then they did nothing with it.

Or better, they used Necalli to show how stronk Akuma is

 

Another could have been G, dude had new big villain hype going with him (plus empty promises by Capcom), but reality is they did nothing with him except make him play fool guy gimmick and getting his ass beaten by Gill and Rose lol

36 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

I agree with basically everything you wrote @CESTUS III

 

Akuma's dick-riding is detrimental to the series and its narrative. It's much more interesting to have Akuma be a bad match-up for Ryu in the way you described.

 

Like, I'm sorry, if I had my way I'd have Gill demolish Akuma in a fight and do so by pointing out how utterly imbalanced Akuma's spirit is, making it impossible for him to beat someone as perfectly centered as Gill...

 

...and I don't even like Gill that much...but Akuma just needs the L THAT badly

 

The problem is that to make things interesting they could have worked of give ultimate villains different balance on how and why are dangerous

 

Like put more effort on show how straight physical abilities, martial art skill, raw ki firepower, ability to control that ki or have a particular/special power are all different elements and that a Final Boss does'nt need necessary to excel at all these, because in that away you can have an asymmetric dynamic instead just have shonen power level new bosses having to 1up the previous one or pay the price of not being considered credible threat

 

Hokuto no Ken somehow managed to do it and still build a shone style rise of opponents level

Think about it, stuff like Souther secret giving him edge over Raoh and many more examples the series offered... they definitely had "power levels", but an HnK Master facing another Master was never truly 100% predictable outcome, maybe some W were, but the price in blood was'nt

 

Like, if done right we should be left think that example in shit like Akuma vs Bison vs Gill vs Oro vs Gouken everybody should have a decent chance at kill one of the others if they can play right on their own strenghts and on opponents weakness

Each of these characters seems to be compatible with have areas were they excel over others, and weaker traits too

Would throw there even Necalli and Seth if they were written completely differently, and Gen if was'nt sick

 

Of course Capcom threw us a bone in the form of Akuma getting a draw with Oro and Gouken's technique (even if suspect current Akuma would murder Gouken), but as general rule let them write all these in some bizzarre what if Boss level Tourament and aside Oro (but still in a forced life or dead one, they would rather kill Oro) you will get

 

Akuma's fist too much stronk

Akuma's tryhard dark ki too much great

Akuma's technique too much technical

Akuma's power too powerful! (and stronk)

 

Only case where i truly appreciated straight Boss >Boss, were Bison>Sagat because it was hype see the previous King working as #2/bodyguard, and because we had to move on into a much greater scale world (something i still want)

 

Other was Bison>Seth just because fuck Seth... but that mean rare time we got a SF new boss, it sucked and was fake Boss

 

 

9 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

No one brings up Cody.   I really liked his redesign.  The 1930s chain-gang jailbird thing was just boring so I probably would've been happy with literally anything else, but I'm also glad they moved his story forward to after serving his time.

I mentioned it, in the improvement group "Cody - very good even if have design problems"

 

The concept itself is cool and the idea to make him new major making Metro City as some sort of family company is pure genius, specially because put also th jail time in perspective too lol

 

I think it have some character design problems on technical level, like patterns and color scheme choice generating bit of confusion or at least not being much done in the classic SF way, dude have bunch of parts that visually don't link with each other much nor play on repetition

-warning, boring design analysis-

Hard to explain as it goes bit more technical on how you build a character design that follow a scheme, but short version is when you take single elements seems like they designed him without usual "harmony" and link between parts

Easy examples could be that instead black they could have gave him brown shoes to link with gilet brown leather parts, or creating metal parts (belt buckle and watch case) they could have picked either gold or steel (probably latter better as is more neutral and even link with knife) for both, instead done one steel one golden

Also have bunch of visually close but different colors with gilet purple-blue and pants blue is kinda strange choice, wich get worse reaching shoes that add one more dark close-but-different color

Also very thin subtle lines patterns shirt choice seems bit unusual next to SF classic way of favor bigger more clean elements that are easier to read, exaple the idea of have a shirt with azure and "white" pattern is nice if done to call back mind previous prisoner uniform and on general Cody colors (likely), but would have truly done that job with thicker, same width azure & white vertical lines, wich could have been still compatible with a business shirt

Instead they gave it same pattern of pants with different colors, wich is'nt how they usually use the repetition

 

Again is not easy to explain if one does'nt start from a design scheme/patterns perspective, specially if the design itself is perceived as "cool" and so it get people's approvation despite being "wrong" (if we want use this word) on technical/design level... and get even harder when you have to explain people on other hand, something UGLY af as SFV Birdie actually got a pretty solid fundamentals design

People are inclined to defend what they perceive as "good/cool" and attack what they dislike and see as ugly, even if technically solid and was the intentional point of it

 

SF is filled by designs that are either overrated or underrated based on people's perception rather than design quality itself (wich can easily lead to the argument of SF being a product and so people-who-pay perception is most important thing, but this is another story lol)

 

9 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Am I alone in hating Cammy's "iconic" outfit?   It's a one-piece bathing suit for horndogs to ogle at.   Give the girl some sensible clothes ffs.

I don't care about it being "sensible" tbh, i find original SF2 Cammy (and even more dark green one of SF2tAM) to be awesome on so many levels, but i'm just jumping out from Cody's analysis above, so i will stick to "awesome on many levels" (some of wich have been fucked up in SFV's apparently soft but actually huge redesign) lol

 

Not saying it was'nt thirsty fanservice too (as vast majority of FG girls), but i have no problems with it and btwmost important was thirsty fanservice done right, without sacrify character design in any way (somewhere as we speak SC Ivy is crying)

 

AND had the merit to be designed around Chun Li's design to work as complementary figure next to her... fun thing decades after SF4 Juri, wich i consider one of the very best designs of post-SF3 era SF, i think had to thanks same method as feels strongly designed to fit as third figure next to Chun and Cammy, managing to become instant iconic next to characters that have decades of history

 

9 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Female Seth is just dumb.   SFIV Seth was dumb.  Characters whose identity is "use other characters moves" is dumb. 

Not a fan of either, but the concept SF4 Seth with clothes we never got was good.

These cyborgs ever been in SFimagery since SF2tAM days (and maybe before, would have to check release of some SF2 mangas), and the idea of one evolving above others and developing personality could have been even great if handled correctly.

They could have picked the elegant concept and built his image around his obsession of wanting hard to be human, maybe building up a stage heavy based on art, culture and other shit to show how he's crazy and delusional on deny his own nature

 

Instead they made him express his reject of be seen/considered as a lab freak piece of shit cyborg, by fighting like a naked piece of shit cyborg in a shitty crumbling scifi lab

 

But that's lead us to how SF handle characters(specially new ones), and if SF cast could read this post we woud get dozen of #metoo lmao

 

 

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

Oh I agree. I'm not telling you what I want to happen (which is what you described). I'm saying this is probably what will happen because the foundations for it are kinda there and yes because it is weak.

This

Not saying that i WANT it to happen, just that i think will happen

 

18 hours ago, Sonero said:

Think the problem with Akuma is that he doesn't have a story.

I think the problem with Akuma is that Capcom thinks that this glorified sprite edit is their most badass villain, and they keep down cooler villains to suck his stronk japanese dick

 

They could have him "just" as a very dangerous old son of bitch, who's not the world's ultimate fighter able to fuck up everybody, but VERY dangerous to Ryu specifically because he knows all Ansatsuken tricks better than him and strikes ever to maim and kill

Think about somebody that know very well the offensive/defensive patterns, have moves to counter hado/shoryu/tatsu shit and ever try to put a finger on your eye or kick balls lol

 

But no, we had to have 1-punch-island-destroyer and while at it they find excuses to have him beat up other bosses to make clear you may think new villain is badass, but you're not allowed to think he's better than Stronk Japan Akuma

 

8 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

Akuma should get humbled by someone. Potentially even someone like Gill. And I don't mean 'a close fight', I mean something should happen where Akuma eats a big L because it will reframe a lot of his character in a useful way.

Sadly i doubt it's going to happen, we're locked in a Yujiro Hanma bullshit

 

Closest would be the scissor-rock-paper story gimmick they did in SFEX with Garuda>Akuma>Bison>Garuda situation, but even there they made it more about a pokemon bad match up due nature of their energies rather than Akuma getting straight overwhelmed by a superior or at least more powerful fighter

 

 

1 hour ago, Volt said:

My bad, sometimes it's hard to set tone on text. 🤣

 

I was just making a comment on how SNK at least maintained a closer style to the originals for their legacy characters.

Yeah, that's true KoF have different approach when it comes to redesigns and i think on general it give them indeed a lower % of "very bad" ones next to SFV(using it as the first SF that put lot effort on redesigns)

KoF ever had that endless wave of small changes that give the feel that nothing truly change (it does, but you have less shock), SF showed to be more like static af for a while then drop big changes (with various results)

 

I mean, they can still take something glorious as Tizoc was and turn it into dinosaur crap, but it's rare outcome... overall they tend to hit slighty above or slighty below the previous incarnation of the char

 

Would also add that to be fair they often struggle too when it comes to beat the original, but definitely redesigns are'nt their main chara design weakness

 

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

Should've given Poison  beard.

☠

May have saved Ryu from NeoGaf/Eventhubs people, but SF6 teaser at this point is a thing

17 minutes ago, Sonero said:

You don't really need to do much to Alex. As shown already, Alex defenders are all unfashionable bridge dwellers that Queer Eye For The Bottom Tier guy couldn't make dress well.

SF3 Alex was one of best design of his game (would say Alex, Dudley, Yun and Ibuki) though, SFV one is possibly THE worst redesign of the game. No easy feat

21 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Guile's and Poison's new defaults are hella good though. Although Guile's outfit has more to it if you've been around the military. Dude sleeved up his dress uniform all the way up like a savage. Man is about throwing hands. Poison's SF4 outfit didn't have a lot to it either.

Guile one as simple he was, still used to be one of the most iconic characters and had pretty definited imagery and colors, they throw all that away to drop on him a generic look that feels like an alt costume (would have been good at that) rather than a redesign... kinda betray the original design spirit, rather than a tough af old dog ready to fuck up people on the battlefield with bullets flying above his head, seems a pissed guy that just left office to throw hands

Think tactical SF4 one (or similar CPT SFV one) is more the natural evolution of original design

 

Poison is just bit a mess. Aside change of hair (prefer previous, but no big deal) they added bunch of stuff (black parts), without improving anything much but making the figure just more confuse. On other side was just effective, took SF3 look and improved it without moving much away from it.

I have to admit though that change of weapon in SFV has been huge improvement

 

40 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Cammy has a pretty ionic outfit. There isn't a lot you can do it without really ruining the whole look. Cammy's look is too much like Ryu. She has a certain look and it isn't one that you can mess around with too much. You can give cammy other outfits and its fine, but her OG set is locked in with quality.

I agree that IF they wanted redesign Cammy (not something i asked for) they should have gone for a drastic change

Problem is one we got is SF2 Cammy without some characteristic elements (face scar, Delta Red triangle, camo legs) that helped enrich her image and color scheme, while in return we got only bunch black belts that yes, help bit the color scheme (they link with boots), but ultimately don't compensate much what she lost leaving her with lost of flat surfaces

Guess to link with black they could still have added the belts (maybe just torso ones) to original SF2 Cammy, but not removing what was there

 

Also SF4 had the good idea of give her that dark green that remind lot SF2tAM and made interesting contrast with her skin, SFV fucked it up with shitty very saturated bright  green that stand there as one more proof somebody in SFV team is color blind

 

56 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Falke needed some pants. That one is mad weird.

Well, did'nt mentioned her because she's not a redesign, but if we are at it she's possibly the weakest new design (if we ignore Kage as everybody should lol)

When not even be a waifu leave a mark, that's next level weak (on her defense we may say she was designed to be functional to Ed design, but still)

 

But would say she's bit an exception, as i think large majority of SFV newcomers were within various shades from good to very very good... specially if we count that Falke is'nt a BAD design (some redesigns are way worse), she's just a weak af design that end up being extremely forgettable despite trying hard on sexy nazi stripper waifu gimmicks lol

 

If we go on newcomers design (not story, that in some cases was weak af) SFV ratio is indeed positive

Very good: Zeku, Menat, Necalli, Kolin

Good: Rashid, G, Luke

Decent: Laura, Fang, Ed

Weak: Falke

Kage: Peter the brazilian cop, Kage

 

Imho does'nt reach the highest level of chara design touched by some SF4 newcomers (underrated work for many reasons), but it gave us LOT of new characters with average good quality

 

3 hours ago, Sonero said:

Female Seth was a great idea though. Out there confusing young men and putting rule 34 people in the blender of blenders.

Female Seth is female Seth, hard to rate as redesign mostly because it's basically a new design

Would say that concept/anime SF4 Seth (one with clothes) > SFV Seth > SF4 ingame shitty naked Seth, but on reality would be kinda pointless, are just straight different things

I could have done without and give that slot to some other returning char, but that's me lol

 

3 hours ago, Sonero said:

 Because if even characters whom they updated a little bit, like say Karin, still look like themselves. Sakura could've probably done with an outfit that better matched her old colors. Going from the school outfit with blue and white to a black dress was a bit too much I think.

Yeah, if you see i recognized they did neutral but good job with Karin/Sakura, as they were forced to change them due time jump and somehow made decent job

Being totally honest i feel if target was reach the original designs they did'nt fully made it, but they got close enough to make me think was unfair drop them on downgrade

 

On Sakura color scheme i agree and she even have a color (#3) that clearly use the old scheme, but they intentionally dodged it as standard color option, guess reason being change the color scheme better help show the character entered a different phase of her life... and unlike for Guile, i think they may have done a good choice in her case because make more clear have nothing to do with her old schoolgirl uniform

 

What surprised me is that they did gone as bold with Karin (both as lines, theme and colors) who as concept could have gone much more far from her original self, but guess since she was played as heavy fanservice/hype card, they did'nt wanted move too far from what her fans waited for decades

Her not having bit more mature new style made even more awkward see her declare herself the GI-joe leader of SF vets (and them accepting it, but that's the legitimacy a GI-joe style SF adventure deserve), but guess her fans passed every second of these moments jizzing on their screens, so i guess at least somebody got his happy ending

 

Did'nt found neither great but at least they did'nt fallen too far from the target, so as said keept them on neutral job ones wich by itself has been a bit an achievement

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

Which redesigns do you feel are bad? Because almost all the updated outfits on a chunk of characters were really good. Whether or not the models made it through okay is a different issue though.

Including previously unplayable ones that we had the chance to see, and leaving out who's almost the same

 

Bit or lot worse

Akuma

Alex

Abigail (due shit proportions)

Juri (specially thinking SF4 Juri was one of best things SF did in decades)

Ibuki

Guile

Poison

Cammy (more bland version of what she was)

 

More or less neutral

R.Mika

Vega

Birdie (know lot hate it, still not THAT worse, make sense for new concept. Problem is people think "cooler" = "better")

Sakura  and Karin (equal as previous one, but does good job show time passing)

Evil Ryu, because lmao at calling it Kage (similar crap level as SF4 one)

 

 

Improvement

Urien (overkill here, new design is very good + still include old one)

Dhalsim

Balrog  (truly great upgrade, may be one who gained most)

M.Bison

Ken  (broke "Ryu clone" effect, represent well him take a western approach)

Zeku

Sagat  (also if i like classic too)

Honda

Cody (very good even if have design problems)

Oro

 

Not easy to rate/would take analysis

Seth

Nash

Lucia

 

PS: Agree on problems on 3D models, but i still blame on art direction if something that end up on final product suck

1 hour ago, Sonero said:

Haters getting left behind:

And that's one more assumption on what i'm saying, Zeku is a very good character design one of the best new ones in SFV

 

Would say Zeku and Menat are probably the best new character designs in V

But i like many others tbh

Despite what people say SF4 was pretty strong at it too

 

SF don't suffer THAT much on do new designs, they struggle bit more at redesigns

Find their position kinda specular opposite of KoF one, who's usually classy at renew old designs but recently have a problem of high % of sucking dicks when it comes to create new faces

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Volt said:

At least the legacy characters ain't getting bad redesigns.

 

Lion Akuma just looks ridiculous.

You sound defensive as if i would disagree, i recognize SF character design is on decline too  

 

I can offer you many more SFV names beside Akuma if you want lol

 

Both series (and some others i may add) got weaker, to different levels both in redesigns and new characters

Shun'ei looks like crap to me, but is part of a whole path that started decades ago with Kyo/Iori and progressed chapter after chapter

 

Kyo original design was pretty good FG design to me though, and while i never been much fan of Yagami's was still solid 

 

Then each level they doubled in that "non fighter" direction 

K looked even more skinny and x10 more tryhard edgy 

Ash makes Benimaru look like an alpha male neanderthal 

Shun'ei is Shun'ei 

 

I don't like it, as i'm a fan of Fatal Fury style SNK, but at the end that's clearly the way they chosen to quit being Capcom younger brother and -successfully- build their own visual identity 

 

Essentially does'nt matter if i find it crap (i do), because he's designed for a different audience... if they find it cool, then SNK nailed it 

 

Same thing of shit taste people that wanted gritty Street Fighter and SF6 lol

 

 

15 minutes ago, Daemos said:

I think the most interesting thing that can happen to Akuma is to be defeated, physically and/or philosophically then to live with that knowledge. It could be a moment of growth or something that will haunt him.

I also suspect they will confirm that he is the father in the future.

Yeah that's ever been what i thought will be the heaviest punishment Ryu will inflict him 

Not only will defeat him, but spare his life denying him that ultimate life or death battle he dream for, showing he threw away his soul/humanity for nothing

 

Being killed by Ryu would be still a moral victory for him, but be spared will cripple his soul forever 

Would even allow have him becoming much weaker as result, wich can still make SF world move beyond Akuma the stronkest bullshit without make him disappear (wich sadly will not happen) 

 

Agree on the predictable father thing, but would not dive in much as that ever lead to endless debate here lol 

Expect to happen =/= WANT to happen, but seem hard to explain lol

4 hours ago, BootyWarrior said:

Wouldn't Ryu vs Akuma overshadow anything else that's happening in the game?  Do we really want another SF where Ryu gets all the spotlight?

As somebody who is Ryu fan but hates the whole Aluma bullshit, i wish we can close it as soon as possible 

 

We will ever trapped into "Akuma stronk the stronkest" bullshit till he's finally defeated by Ryu 

Same way Baki is crippled by Yujiro Hanma infesting that universe, no boss will ever be allowed to shine till we get rid off this fucking glorified sprite edit

 

As positive side Akuma does'nt carry much plot, so you can have a SF chapter where a bunch of heroes tackle on new Boss, while on the side Ryu finish his business with him on top of a volcano or some shit 

 

Only way to make Akuma somebody that carry a SF story on his own as enemy would be change his current lone beast path, wich can even be cool if handled correctly*

But Akuma and cool are not compatible, so i doubt lmao

 

 

*Akuma getting "followers"... NOT much as Ansatsuken disciples(fuck that), but fierce fighters with their own style/design/background that recognize Akuma's "alpha" status and embrace same kind of martial path... so you can have bunch of "good" fighters involved to stop them. from corrupting martial arts world or some shit

Only way i can imagine to have multiple different characters involved in anything Akuma-related

 

 

8 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

Natural disasters are not inherently evil. It's possible G is malevolent but it's also possible what he is might trigger events. 

As said he does'nt fit traditional "evil" villain on psychological level, but on pratical level SFV told us whatever he support would be an absolute planet scale threat to human kind, and as such he will likely be handled as the classic villain-that-must-be-stopped  

 

G becoming just a tournament host and ignore the threat he represent would not fit what we have been told so far... unless he play host role in 6 and the threat thing is handled in future 

 

Btw i would absolutely support a different new character doing that host thing you say. 

Just some martial arts fanatic, rich af, undefeated dude that want make up a tournament inviting all the best fighters of the world (lot of wich new)  hoping to find a worthy rival able to give him his first L 

Boring like that, no world conquest shit needed... all you need is make him slighty bad guy so Luke can scream "terrorist!" at him and have excuse to punch him with hero cape on

 

Lets be clear, if you ask me i would LOVE the simple international martial arts tournament setting as it encourage more martial arts nation-rep characters, wich is what i ever loved and wanted for SF, while on other direction GI-Joe plot encourage GI-Joe bs characters 

 

Like, Ed or Falke (and Knife/Gorilla) were designed with that kind of Shadaloo GI-Joe plot in mind, designs functional to that shit 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, YagamiFire said:

Honestly I think the G discussion misses the point a bit.

 

A fully-powered G-unleashed IF he were to be the boss, absolutely could be. What people are missing is that a boss doesn't need to be bad/evil. G could simply HOST the tournament and be the boss for it. There'd be nothing wrong with that.

Yes and no

I mean, we already had in SFV a bit of consideration by characters with great insight about power, and has been hinted that while he does'nt fit the traditional villain his dream would be a threat to human kind, "end of everything" according to Rose

 

"I don't know who you are, but you appear to be the manifestation of a natural disaster." (Oro to G)

 

 

What's not clear is if G is the wave or just somebody who's surfing it

 

 

1 hour ago, Chun-Li_Forever said:

Appearance: What Chun-Li will look like? Will she continue the same iconic look, or will she get a redesign?

If fucking Ryu got redesign, everybody get redesign lol

 

They will probably keep her classic color scheme though, or at least not move too far from it