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GetTheTables

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  1. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Dayaan in [Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike] Chun Li Guide (CH)   
    This will be a developing guide to Chun Li in 3rd Strike. Note that this information will apply to anyone at any skill level. As such, I will not necessarily cover things such as J.2HP > Cr.LP to reset into mix as they are advanced, situational and do not generate a better understanding of how to play the character well at her core. I will try to keep this guide as close to the Ken guide I made and am continuing to develop. The link for that is here:
     
    Just like before, these are the basics that will carry you into the higher of level of play.
     
    Cancellable chains, normals and specials will be in green font. Links into Super Art 2 or other buttons will be in red. More info on these buttons is available in Game Restaurant and Baston, both of which are linked in the next segment.
     
    FRAME DATA
    Like before, I will link the frame data sites I use:
    http://ensabahnur.free.fr/BastonNew/index.php?id=16
    http://gr.qee.jp/01_3rd/kouryaku/chunli/index.html
     
    As usual, this is the chronological order I prefer to research frame data in; ESN first, GR second.
     
    It has also come to my attention that there is a reliable and updated app for frame data covering 3rd Strike, among other games. I am still exploring this, but for the most part it seems quick, reliable and easy to use. I will link the necessary links below, though note that these will just provide the same information as the sites linked above.
     
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fullmeter.fat
    https://apps.apple.com/us/app/frame-assistant-tool/id886775464
    https://fullmeter.com/fatonline/#/framedata/Ryu
     
    Here is a tweet with these 3 links. It is from the F.A.T. dev:
     
     
    UNIQUE ASPECTS
     
    CHAINS
    J.HP x2 - Her air target combo. Good damage and resets after SA2. I will elaborate soon.
    J.2MK > X - After her hopkick, Chun gets an extra air action. She can parry, attack or do another hopkick. Really, she's free to do anything in the air. I'm going to count this.
     
    COMMAND NORMALS
    F.MK
    F.HK
    B.HK
    DF.HK
    B.MP
    B.HP
    J.2MK*
    J.2HP**
     
    *This is her hopkick. She gets air actions after this.
    **In 3rd Strike, neutral jump and diagonal (forward or back) jumps often give different buttons. This means that Chun Li's neutral J.HK will look and behave differently to her forward J.HK. Chun Li's neutral J.HP happens to be the same as her forward/back J.2HP. It is a dunking move and will punch the opponent straight into the floor.
     
    HITCONFIRMS
    Buckle up. This is a huge reason why Chun Li is scary. Just like Ken, she gets many hitconfirms, but she has more of them and has more time to confirm into them. It's very easy. There are those that she prefers to confirm with, and those that she doesn't but still can. That's the power of a top tier...
     
    Cr.MK > SA2
    Cl.HK > SA2*
    F.HK > SA2**
    B.HK > SA2**
    Cr.LP > SA2***
    St.MP > SA2****
    B.MP > SA2****
     
    *Must be superjump cancelled. The input is Cl.HK > 2362369K. Yes, this can be hitconfirmed raw.
    **Only on crouching opponents. This is not an overhead. Often used as a whiff punish since F.HK and B.HK go over lows. Can also beat crouch tech. Note that on some opponents (like the twins) you will have to whiff punish them as F.HK and/or B.HK won't hit them otherwise.
    ***This is pretty hard. You can't confirm from this raw. It's literally impossible. Instead, you can use the unique aspect of Cr.LP being the fastest normal in the game to guarantee punishes after a parry. So you parry, react to the parry with Cr.LP and do super. This is hard, but for the most part is considered the only guaranteed way to get a true punish safely on moves after parrying them for many things. Here is an example of it's application against the typical Cr.MK:
     
     
    ****These are usually used as a whiff punish. This applies less so for B.MP, but I thought its inclusion may be worth something. It should be noted that (according to the 30th Anniversary Collection) St.MP > SA2, does the same damage as B.HP > SA2. After a J.HK, St.MP > SA2 is actually more damaging that B.HP > SA2 after the same J.HK. There is no difference in oki, so be optimal.
     
    Medium Kick and Heavy Kick
    MK and HK are definitely some of the more versatile buttons you'll see in any character's toolkit.
     
    MK is an exceptionally powerful button. Let's discuss where it falls short so you may remember not to use it.
    Firstly, Fa.MK, F.MK and Cl.MK are often nothing more than swipes of damage. Both are parryable and whiff punishable of course, and quite easily so. These are not the buttons you want to be throwing out regularly. Fa.MK does serve a crucial purpose in her kara throw, though, which I will get to momentarily.
    Her true strength in MK done raw lies in Cr.MK. This is easily one of the strongest hitconfirms in the game. You have so much time to late cancel into SA2 that I actually wrote 2 novels and now have 5 kids... True story! Use this well, and make sure not to miss. This is extremely powerful
     
    HK is powerful regardless of how you use it (except for DF.HK. Only weirdos use that... sometimes). Cl.HK is a superjump cancelled hitconfirm into super. It's easy and comes out fast, meaning it's great to anti-air with too. The air reset drops your opponent in your face where you have the TDK to do to them whatever you wish. Because it's superjump cancellable, you can also react to an air parry on the opponent's jump in, and then leap away to safety sometimes.
    F.HK and B.HK typically serve the same function each. For one, they are great to whiff punish with. They also go over lows and are throw invulnerable, as shown here:
     
    As I mentioned before, you can link into super after landing one of these on a crouching opponent. Here is an example [note the difference between 17 hits raw, and 18 after I link from F.HK]:
     
     
    KARA THROW
    Finally, the good stuff!

    Chun's kara throw is incredibly powerful. She mainly sticks to kara throwing with two buttons: MK and HK. This is where Fa.MK becomes incredibly powerful, so let's approach that right after we discuss how to kara throw. It's simple. Press a button, and press throw a few frames later! Easy, no?
     
    The reason Fa.MK is a strong kara throw button is because of distance. Just check out that range! Look at where I attempt to throw from - no cigar. Add the Fa.MK just before throwing and boom. Free real estate.
    This works because in the animation of Fa.MK, Chun steps forward a considerable amount. Add this range to the existing normal throw range and you get quite a step.
     
    For HK kara throws, I've seen people use F.HK a little, but mainly people stick to Cl.HK for their kara. This is because when combined with a down parry, Chun gets something called an SGGK. Other characters have it, but her's is extremely strong. It is outside the scope of this guide as it is hard to optimise and not necessarily a widespread tactic. In any case, the kara may still be a good idea to show off. 
    You can tell when you pulled off a successful Cl.HK kara throw when she shouts, "YAH!" as she throws. She doesn't make this sound when throwing, so use this as your indicator.
     
    The reason kara throw is so strong is that the ranges where throw isn't supposed to work, it does. This means that you can effectively threaten your opponent into guessing whether an attack (often hitconfirmable into super) is coming or if they're going to get whittled down with throw - the oki for which is very strong. Here is a good example of Yone being too worried about getting hit, yet still getting thrown from ranges he shouldn't have.
     
    This means that when you have meter, any meaty attack, delayed attack or throw can all be a part of the same mixup from Cr.MK range. That's insane. Considering how low the risk can be for some of these plays, this is a powerful tool to master. Don't you want to be the one to confirm Cr.MK into super, get TDK and then threaten with another super, an overhead and a throw all from the same range?
     
    Please learn this!
     
     
    PUNISHES
    Chun has a lot of punishes and whiff punish tools at most ranges. The scary part is that they often go into super. This is, of course, missing when she doesn't have meter. Unlike Ken who can go into DP or EX Hadoken if necessary, Chun has average to weak punishes when she doesn't have meter.
     
    Meterless Punishes:
    B.HP > Kikoken
    B.HP > MK SBK
    B.MP > HK SBK
    St.HP
    Cr.MK > LK SBK
    Hayakuretsukyaku
    B.MP > Hayakuretsukyaku
     
    Metered Punishes:
    OK, let's get something out of the way. B.HP > EX Kikoken is not a metered punish. OK? OK. For the purposes of this section, we are referring to metered punishes as ways to go into super.
     
    Please apply the same things discussed earlier in the hitconfirm section to here.
     
    Cr.MK > SA2
    Cl.HK > SA2
    F.HK > SA2
    B.HK > SA2
    Cr.LP > SA2
    St.MP > SA2
    B.MP > SA2
     
    CONCLUSIONS
    Chun has a lot of unique aspects to her game. Fast normals that go far and have priority, a throw that violates state borders and can travel without a visa, and confirms that are easy and rewarding for typically minimal risk make her dangerous at most ranges. Note that she is quite lacking in her punish game without meter. You will get bullied until you get your stocks of meter locked and loaded, so be careful. Make sure to use her kara throw extensively to enforce the power of your delayed plays to counter guard jump and make them afraid to commit to blocking.
     
    SUPERS
    Just use SA2.
     
    SA1: KIKOU-SHOU
    Fast and strong as an anti-air, Kikou-Shou serves one purpose. Actually I just stated it. It's OK for anti-airs... if you like spending all your meter on a super with what can only be described as "meh" oki. Don't pick this.
     
    SA2: HOUYOKU-SEN
    High damage. Easy confirms. Incredible TDK power and unreactable mix anywhere on the screen. You can cross under, go for a meaty overhead, throw, meaty attack, delay all your options to beat guard jump and guess parries. Did I mention that all of this is hitconfirmable into another super so you can repeat this sequence all over again? Why don't you tell me if you got hit?
    This is just one of the most basic mixes you can enforce with her, and there are so many more strategies that are more potent, more consistent and more filthy. Gouki is dead dead.

    Let's get into those later.
     
    SA3: TENSEI-RANKA
    Does anyone actually know what this achieves? I guess this is sometimes used as an anti-air? It's startup is alright; comparable to a DP. Perhaps the weakest thing about this super besides its lackluster damage is its range. At a certain range - most notably the max range for Cr.MK where Chun is powerful - this will not combo, even if you confirm into it. The result is you flying into the air and coming down to be parried on reaction for a huge punish. By the way, this is a single parry on the way down. No one is missing this. I suppose a positive aspect is the fact that it gives you 3 tiny bars to work with, but Chun doesn't use her EX moves all that much, which leaves you to... Use this rubbish more..? I think Capcom is trying to push kids into smoking behind their offices. This is a weird design choice, and no one is falling for this resource allure. Pick SA2.
     
    HOUYOKU-SEN
    It's not uncommon to find top players discussing Chun's strengths to loop back to her super. Ultimately, you can't remove her ability to gain meter. She is decent in neutral and will build it. As stated above, the reason her super is strong besides the damage is similar to why Ken's Shippu Jinrai Kyaku is so powerful. It gives her an opportunity to loop offence, and she gets it through easy confirms anywhere on the screen. This will usually lead into another super and if you're not already dead, you better guess for the game, buddy. It's also a great tool to gather information on your opponent's wakeup habits, what their happy place is when they go to guess for game or steal offence and which direction they're afraid to parry in. Remember, what doesn't happen is sometimes just as important as what does happen. Pay attention!
     
     Here is a great video on Chun's post-super mix:
     
     
    I do believe there are more options than just what is listed here. Here is a great matchup specific mix that the beasts showed off at Canada Cup:
     
    Please continue to explore these mixes so you may enforce a strong guessing game.
     
    FINAL NOTES
    Should there be anything that I missed, I hope this video will cover it:
     
     
    Notable Chun Lis to watch include Nuki (Onuki, Ohnuki), MOV, Michael-tan, Ryan B, thelanceshow, Justin Wong, Raoh, Moun-B, and Suzu. These are some of my favourites to learn from.
     
    I will continue to update the guide as I get more information. This is lacking in comparison to Ken, but I feel that Chun Li is simpler (but not easier), and so requires a smaller information dump. There are, however, unmistakable gaps in information, and I have already noted them down and am currently researching them. Please be patient and work on these in the meantime.
  2. Insightful
    GetTheTables reacted to BornWinner in The Guilty Gear general, Anime perky boobs are de wae   
    Accent Core on Steam has a new beta up. Features some new training and replay options.
     
     
     
     
  3. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Dayaan in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Also, everyone should check out this guide that I worked on for... 3.5 hours today.
     
     
    It's Chun Li time, baby.
  4. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Dayaan in The Street Fighter V Thread   
  5. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Skort in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Lmao,i dont know if this was talked about before but look what i found out xD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!    
     
    Look what happens when you v-shift Vega's attack. I recorded this. 
     
     
  6. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Dayaan in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Thanks man, and fuck these guys. There's so much institutional bullshit going on since I moved. Inundations daily with the fucking tests, exams, payments and classes. When I finally get off school, I go to play on my laptop... which is on WiFi because the Comcunts tm require me to pay to use the internet I'm already paying for. Fuck this shit. I'm too heated atm. Just going to draw and cool off.
  7. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Hecatom in The Under Night In-Birth Thread   
  8. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Mattatsu in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I’m sure the loads have begun 🤣
  9. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Skort in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Platinum with Bonita  achieved ! 
     
    Laura is a fun character but i gotta learn shitloads with her lmao. I'll probably derank and rank back like crazy now but imma aim for super plat next of course. I want to learn Laura now, its decided.
     
    @ Laura mains .....i hate zoners
     

  10. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Mattatsu in The Guilty Gear general, Anime perky boobs are de wae   
    It honestly changed my whole FG trajectory. The netcode was so incredible that I loathe the idea of playing half of the FGs I used to play. It’s gameplay was also super fun, so now, all I really want to play is other GG games (mostly Rev2)... It’s actually been nice because I used to approach Rev2 as a faster “street fighter” game, instead of more of its own thing, and I’m having more fun with it now than i ever have.
     
    it’s gotten so bad that I feel like I’m on a similar path that @Mr.Cipher albeit a few years later... several times now, I’ve had to fight the urge to post in the SFV Lounge things like “Why are you all still playing this shit?! What is wrong with you guys?!” 🤣
  11. Insightful
    GetTheTables reacted to Mattatsu in The Guilty Gear general, Anime perky boobs are de wae   
    Ramlethal declares war on mankind.
     
    then a large structure appears over a city and when it leaves, all life in the city (humans and animals) vanish without a trace.

    Sol, Ky, etc go to fight Ram.
     
    Elphelt, Ram’s sister, stops Ram from killing them all.
     
    Ram and Elphelt were tools created by their mother for specific purposes. Elphelt had an awakening though, and instead of being evil like her sister, she experiences emotion and feels empathy for the humans. Ram becomes mostly powerless because of Elphelt’s control over her, and the two of them are brought in by Sol, Ky, Sin, etc for questioning.
     
    the Conclave (a group of three people who have ties with most of the world governments) and run the PWAB are controlling the structure and were working with Ram.
     
    Bedman, who is working for a mysterious woman (who is Ram’s and Elphelt’s mother), keeps intervening to stop the humans. They seem to be on the same side as the conclave.
     
    within this structure that wiped out a city is the corpse of Justice. We learn the conclave’s plan is to bind Justice with a soul, and revive Justice’s body to “standardize” humanity through war, until there is no free will, and we follow the plan/orders.

    during this time, the humans, Sin especially, works to awaken emotions in Ram too and make her good.
     
    The humans (and all world governments) join together to foil the revival of Justice, but all they’re really able to do is kill the Conclave members, but Justice’s body is still intact (just without a soul and while it was being revived, the humans stopped it before it could fully awaken). we learn that Ky is part gear as well, during this.
     
    We learn the “mother” is the mastermind behind everything, and the conclave failing but making Justice’s body available was part of her plan. She didn’t want them to fulfill their goal for humanity, she wanted Justice to fulfill her own.
     
    Also, while Ram is pretty much good now, Elphelt suddenly switches to evil, as her mother programmed her to do this and gain the trust of the humans to monitor them until Justice was revived (which she was, albeit temporarily). Through the power of friendship (and Ram), Elphelt is brought back to good, but her and Justice’s body are teleported away.
     
    That Man explains that the mother/“Universal Will” wants to kill all of humanity, because she deems that true humans have souls, but the current version of mankind dreams of futures where there’s always peace and everyone gets along (ie, there is no conflict), and by her definition, we forfeit our freewill/souls by doing this (no conflict = no unique thoughts, etc), so this current version of mankind are not true humans. She intends to replace them with another type. 

    she plans to bind Elphelt’s soul with Justice, who she’ll be able to control better in that form who will wipe out the current version of humanity.
     
    during this time she unleashes these massive gears in cities to start the destruction.
     
    we also learn that That Man created Justice not to kill humanity, but to save Aria from dying from her terminal and incurable disease. This is why he made Sol a gear too, so he could give them both immortality until he found a way to reunite them properly. The Universal Will took over Justice though and that’s why she started the crusades 100 years ago.
     
    That Man also introduces Jack-O whose spirit is like half Aria’s and if they’re able to bind Jack-O with Justice, then Justice will instead turn into a human form of Aria (or close version of it, with Aria memories) and her and Sol can live happily ever after... And this basically happens and the Ultimate Will is defeated.
     
    That Man (who was deemed a war criminal many years ago for creating Justice) turns himself in. Raven (who was working for That Man) seems to have a vendetta against Sol unrelated to this story, but this is basically where the story ends...
  12. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to misterBee in The Guilty Gear general, Anime perky boobs are de wae   
    Since GG2 the plot has revolved around the Backyard, meaning it's 100% magibabble.
     
    GG story is dumb and NOBODY CAN CHANGE MY MIND.  🙃
  13. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Mattatsu in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I just realized my 7 year old nephew (who is obsessed with Fortnite) may soon fall under the same spells of the spinning bird kick that I did at his age
  14. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Vhozite in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I really hope they don’t destroy Pot over all these complaints about him. Dude is one of the few big bodies I actually like. But even putting aside my bias there absolutely no way tier talks from a beta that lasted a week is a good source of balance feedback.
  15. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to HeavensCloud in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I asked Nemo during his stream whether he was going to play Strive and he said no because of Potemkin 🤣
  16. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Darc_Requiem in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I don't care what SF4 would like. 
  17. LOL
    GetTheTables reacted to Skort in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    I don't think i ever read someone saying so many correct things in a single sentence in my life.  
     
    The sad truth.... 
  18. Insightful
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Jurassic in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Yeah at this point there are a decent # of small game teams that have managed to pull it off. Hell Tough Love Arena has rollback and that can't be a small team, and the game is totally free.
     
    I feel like part of what "costs" means to these FG teams isn't just raw monetary costs. Even "big" FG teams probably aren't that large, and you gotta figure that if you were going to implement rollback correctly from zero it is going to "cost" you dedicated time of at least one person, probably more. So as a project you have to decide if you can afford the cost in either time (having someone on the team learn what to do and get through the learning pains of implementing rollback) or the raw cost of hiring outside help to save your team from being stretched.
     
    In a way this global situation is a key time for companies to make this kind of shift. Locals aren't going to happen again for a long time yet and losing out on the ability to hold events hurts the sales tail on games (a lot of my excitement for SFV came from watching CPT, which turned into me staying with the game and buying stuff over the years even when my actual game time flatlined). Rollback allows you to at least hold online events, and of course for your players to continue playing each other. If you can't leverage that, it doesn't feel like it is even worth releasing a new FG this year.
     
    GBVS sort of felt this. It came out and had a little time to shine, then lost a lot of momentum due to everything locking down. Imagine if that game launched with even a proto version of the rollback that ASW is set to deploy with Strive. For whatever good or ill features Strive may have, it is looking like the only modern Japanese FG that can continue to operate in a semi-normal capacity in 2021, and that is going to count for a lot when it comes to evaluating if it was worth the "pain" of implementing rollback for them in the first place.
     
    Its fucked up but the pandemic is probably going to end up being one of the best things that could have happened for FG online QoL because it forced the issue so hard. 
     
    Talking about old SRK poster brought out my  tendencies.
  19. Insightful
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Jocelot in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Yeah at this point there are a decent # of small game teams that have managed to pull it off. Hell Tough Love Arena has rollback and that can't be a small team, and the game is totally free.
     
    I feel like part of what "costs" means to these FG teams isn't just raw monetary costs. Even "big" FG teams probably aren't that large, and you gotta figure that if you were going to implement rollback correctly from zero it is going to "cost" you dedicated time of at least one person, probably more. So as a project you have to decide if you can afford the cost in either time (having someone on the team learn what to do and get through the learning pains of implementing rollback) or the raw cost of hiring outside help to save your team from being stretched.
     
    In a way this global situation is a key time for companies to make this kind of shift. Locals aren't going to happen again for a long time yet and losing out on the ability to hold events hurts the sales tail on games (a lot of my excitement for SFV came from watching CPT, which turned into me staying with the game and buying stuff over the years even when my actual game time flatlined). Rollback allows you to at least hold online events, and of course for your players to continue playing each other. If you can't leverage that, it doesn't feel like it is even worth releasing a new FG this year.
     
    GBVS sort of felt this. It came out and had a little time to shine, then lost a lot of momentum due to everything locking down. Imagine if that game launched with even a proto version of the rollback that ASW is set to deploy with Strive. For whatever good or ill features Strive may have, it is looking like the only modern Japanese FG that can continue to operate in a semi-normal capacity in 2021, and that is going to count for a lot when it comes to evaluating if it was worth the "pain" of implementing rollback for them in the first place.
     
    Its fucked up but the pandemic is probably going to end up being one of the best things that could have happened for FG online QoL because it forced the issue so hard. 
     
    Talking about old SRK poster brought out my  tendencies.
  20. +1
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Pair of Rooks in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Yeah at this point there are a decent # of small game teams that have managed to pull it off. Hell Tough Love Arena has rollback and that can't be a small team, and the game is totally free.
     
    I feel like part of what "costs" means to these FG teams isn't just raw monetary costs. Even "big" FG teams probably aren't that large, and you gotta figure that if you were going to implement rollback correctly from zero it is going to "cost" you dedicated time of at least one person, probably more. So as a project you have to decide if you can afford the cost in either time (having someone on the team learn what to do and get through the learning pains of implementing rollback) or the raw cost of hiring outside help to save your team from being stretched.
     
    In a way this global situation is a key time for companies to make this kind of shift. Locals aren't going to happen again for a long time yet and losing out on the ability to hold events hurts the sales tail on games (a lot of my excitement for SFV came from watching CPT, which turned into me staying with the game and buying stuff over the years even when my actual game time flatlined). Rollback allows you to at least hold online events, and of course for your players to continue playing each other. If you can't leverage that, it doesn't feel like it is even worth releasing a new FG this year.
     
    GBVS sort of felt this. It came out and had a little time to shine, then lost a lot of momentum due to everything locking down. Imagine if that game launched with even a proto version of the rollback that ASW is set to deploy with Strive. For whatever good or ill features Strive may have, it is looking like the only modern Japanese FG that can continue to operate in a semi-normal capacity in 2021, and that is going to count for a lot when it comes to evaluating if it was worth the "pain" of implementing rollback for them in the first place.
     
    Its fucked up but the pandemic is probably going to end up being one of the best things that could have happened for FG online QoL because it forced the issue so hard. 
     
    Talking about old SRK poster brought out my  tendencies.
  21. +1
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Mattatsu in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Yeah at this point there are a decent # of small game teams that have managed to pull it off. Hell Tough Love Arena has rollback and that can't be a small team, and the game is totally free.
     
    I feel like part of what "costs" means to these FG teams isn't just raw monetary costs. Even "big" FG teams probably aren't that large, and you gotta figure that if you were going to implement rollback correctly from zero it is going to "cost" you dedicated time of at least one person, probably more. So as a project you have to decide if you can afford the cost in either time (having someone on the team learn what to do and get through the learning pains of implementing rollback) or the raw cost of hiring outside help to save your team from being stretched.
     
    In a way this global situation is a key time for companies to make this kind of shift. Locals aren't going to happen again for a long time yet and losing out on the ability to hold events hurts the sales tail on games (a lot of my excitement for SFV came from watching CPT, which turned into me staying with the game and buying stuff over the years even when my actual game time flatlined). Rollback allows you to at least hold online events, and of course for your players to continue playing each other. If you can't leverage that, it doesn't feel like it is even worth releasing a new FG this year.
     
    GBVS sort of felt this. It came out and had a little time to shine, then lost a lot of momentum due to everything locking down. Imagine if that game launched with even a proto version of the rollback that ASW is set to deploy with Strive. For whatever good or ill features Strive may have, it is looking like the only modern Japanese FG that can continue to operate in a semi-normal capacity in 2021, and that is going to count for a lot when it comes to evaluating if it was worth the "pain" of implementing rollback for them in the first place.
     
    Its fucked up but the pandemic is probably going to end up being one of the best things that could have happened for FG online QoL because it forced the issue so hard. 
     
    Talking about old SRK poster brought out my  tendencies.
  22. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to Skort in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Short stream trying to learn Laura.  
     
     
  23. +1
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Counterstrike in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    Yeah at this point there are a decent # of small game teams that have managed to pull it off. Hell Tough Love Arena has rollback and that can't be a small team, and the game is totally free.
     
    I feel like part of what "costs" means to these FG teams isn't just raw monetary costs. Even "big" FG teams probably aren't that large, and you gotta figure that if you were going to implement rollback correctly from zero it is going to "cost" you dedicated time of at least one person, probably more. So as a project you have to decide if you can afford the cost in either time (having someone on the team learn what to do and get through the learning pains of implementing rollback) or the raw cost of hiring outside help to save your team from being stretched.
     
    In a way this global situation is a key time for companies to make this kind of shift. Locals aren't going to happen again for a long time yet and losing out on the ability to hold events hurts the sales tail on games (a lot of my excitement for SFV came from watching CPT, which turned into me staying with the game and buying stuff over the years even when my actual game time flatlined). Rollback allows you to at least hold online events, and of course for your players to continue playing each other. If you can't leverage that, it doesn't feel like it is even worth releasing a new FG this year.
     
    GBVS sort of felt this. It came out and had a little time to shine, then lost a lot of momentum due to everything locking down. Imagine if that game launched with even a proto version of the rollback that ASW is set to deploy with Strive. For whatever good or ill features Strive may have, it is looking like the only modern Japanese FG that can continue to operate in a semi-normal capacity in 2021, and that is going to count for a lot when it comes to evaluating if it was worth the "pain" of implementing rollback for them in the first place.
     
    Its fucked up but the pandemic is probably going to end up being one of the best things that could have happened for FG online QoL because it forced the issue so hard. 
     
    Talking about old SRK poster brought out my  tendencies.
  24. +1
    GetTheTables reacted to HeavensCloud in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    That's my take on it too.  Didn't Fighting EX layer with it's non-existent budget manage to implement decent rollback?  Them's Fighting Herds did it as well.  SNK probably should be able to pull it off if these indie fighting games are doing it.  
  25. +1
    GetTheTables got a reaction from Mattatsu in The Street Fighter V Thread   
    The KOF15 rollback stuff is interesting. Not that I'm super invested in KOF but broadly any rollback attempt is better than them not trying at all. With some effort they should be able to get something solid out the door, even if it isn't Strive level or anything. The way I would interpret "internal" is "we don't want to spend money to hire anyone to do this so we're going to figure this out." Considering that a variety of indie FGs have been able to implement working rollback hopefully the KOF team can figure it out.
     
    Hell even if it releases in a jank state at least the groundwork is out there and you can refine it. The biggest issue with SFV's netcode hasn't been the jank with it, it has been that they have never really sat down and re-addressed it. 
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