GetTheTables

Also just now getting around to watching the story.

You know they aren't fucking around when one of the menu options is "Correlation Chart".

Skort's got it.

To be explicit, it is used for fishing. I.e. random unlocks of music, art, and avatar parts.

You can fish in the lobbies or from the collections menu. Decent way to kill time waiting for park meet ups.

Speaking of Nago I wanted to post this the other day but couldn't get it to link to timestamp on mobile. 

Should just jump right to the Fame matches (if not they start at 24:48). The way Fame plays Nago is extremely impressive as someone who has only ever seen S,S,S players and I think speaks to what Vhozite is talking about in terms of playstyle. Fame also does a fantastic job of managing his blood gauge which I think is the extra curve on the character that kills a lot of players.

1 hour ago, Mattatsu said:

Unrelated to FGs, but good personal news for me…

 

  Reveal hidden contents

a position opened up in my company that was a lot more in-line with what I wanted to do and would be a lot more manageable and less stressful, so I applied for it, and just got word that it’s mine. Same pay (actually a bit less because my mileage reimbursement will be less), but a fuck ton less stress, should have less after hours/weekend work to do, and I’ll actually do something I like doing (for the most part).

 

TLDR, more time for me to grind so I can buss yo ass 😁

 

 

 Congrats man that is fantastic news. As you mentioned it's worth taking a hit on the paycheck front (and it sounds like it wasn't that much of a hit either). The extra pay doesn't do you any good if you're too busy/sick/dead to do much with it.

Wanted to post this earlier but work got busy. Brain was melted yesterday so defaulted to labbing. Spent part of that time testing May stuff because, y'know. 

To assist me I created TubbBotV1.0: five recordings (nothing, twitch [2p], S Dolphin, H Dolphin, IAD j.H) played back with various crouching delay randomly. Some observations after spending a half hour or so with it:

• S Dolphin is fucking fast. Maybe its 'cause I'm old and tired, but it seems like one of those moves where once you mix it in with anything else you aren't going to be able to react to it. 
• Upside is that it is cleanly negative so if you block it you can at least contest but you really need to be mindful of ranges and startups because May has primo buttons for where it'll leave her.
• H Dolphin has a surprising amount of start up. That is offset by it being +oB (DustLoop data says +5 but really any + with May is enough for terrorizing) and it puts you in a real motherfucker of a situation. You do not want to block this if you can help it.
• One way you can help it: H Dolphin at least has a surprising amount of hurtbox around it. Or maybe the travel time makes it easier to contest, I dunno. But it is notably easy to swat out of the air with 5/2P (which one is better probably varies by char, I found Ram's 2P more consistent due to reach). I was able to very consistently react to it from even very close ranges; if you get used to reacting to the dolphin you can catch it on start-up up close or time the swat from further out.
• 6P also works of course but I found that if I was being honest with the situation (i.e. not just standing there waiting for it but crouching, shuffling around) the additional start up can be a bit of a killer. Also probably varies by individual character 6P.
• S Dolphin is actually so fast that it almost OSes you blocking it instead of H Dolphin: I wasn't ever able to even get a button out before S Dolphin started up even when I was really focusing on swatting. 

So some things that I hope are helpful if you find yourself at Seaworld. Its not a huge punish but H Dolphin seems to lead to a bad enough situation that just avoiding it entirely is worth it. Also worth noting that I didn't try this with vertical Dolphins in the mix. Looking at the startup data I'm sure they'd conflate the issue but my main focus was seeing on what all you can do against the horizontal dolphins in the mid-range (say round start ish). Hopefully this is at least somewhat useful for anyone trying to figure out the match up.

EDIT: To clarify something I think one of the most important things you can do is recognize which dolphin is coming. Even if you don't check it, knowing which one is H and that it is + can maybe save us all from becoming a Twitter clip. 🙂

Also, a general vid:

Some neat tidbits in there I didn't know. I actually figured out the combo starter thing yesterday while doing Ram research (phrasing). I have to re-write a chunk of muscle memory already but the damage will be worth it.

38 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Stun Dipper's that one move that makes me go "why is this here?"   ...

 

EDIT: starter guide on youtube from ArcSys says it low profiles for long pokes and it combos from far S and also the tip of HS.  It knocksdown, setting up for oki.  But geez in a real match I'm not sure if I want to use a unsafe oB special with nitpicky spacing for an extra 8 damage. 

 

Shithead answer: because Ky has had Stun Dipper for forever. It'd be like Ryu showing up without Tatsu. However Ky did also lose Greed Sever in Strive so maybe his k-pop transition really shook him up.

Actual answer: if it does legit low profile something like Ram's swords I could see it being a rare way to shake up neutral. Ram specifically doesn't have a lot of lows she's going to be throwing out at that range (though she can switch to periodic 2S if you really lean into SD'ing) so if you fight someone who is really pokey (like me) I can see it working here and there. Definitely risky but then again so is an IAD jump in so I guess pick your poison eh?

Another thing moves like that can be good for is a "guaranteed RC" situation. When you're stocked you can throw it out and RC it regardless - on hit you'll get a combo (probably, due to the pop up but I'm not 100% sure what SD RRC can lead to) , on block you'll be safe, and even on whiff you can reset. You see this a lot with moves like Sol's Night Raid Vortex (VOHTEXU). You can also hit confirm if you need to RRC at all and since SD is 2 hits it gives you more leniency to save the meter.

Or maybe you shouldn't listen to me because I play Ram and don't know much past "f.S go burrrr, these sword fly good". 🤔

I was just coming here to post that, apparently I'm slow but I'm just a Normalhuman. Looks amazing. Fingers crossed for a solid adaptation.

With that animation style it looks like they can nail the atmosphere which is going to be a big part of translating Ito's work.

9 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Hmm....I guess I just figured something out. I either like to keep people out or overwhelm them. Never realized the second thing until typing out this post. Maybe that's why I clicked with Laura before Alex and Kolin dropped.

I had a long post that got eaten by my connection. Here's the quick version of my thoughts on chars, assuming you're still debating:

Ram is crazy oppressive in mid-range and not bad up close either. She's a supreme midscreen bully that converts hits into corner carry which leads either to really solid corner pressure or just straight up wall breaks for big damage. No real mix ups to speak of outside of core system mechanics but that is probably for the best balance wise (she's already real nasty).

Gio isn't a bad choice. She has some surprisingly effective buttons that convert consistently thanks to her specials. She is really solid up close with a +oB normal (rarified air in this game so far as I've seen, though it's no Sol f.S) and great low confirms. She also has overhead gimmickry with her overhead kick special which should make you feel right at home after having played Alex. 😉 

Faust has similarly huge range to Ram. He also boasts a near fullscreen hit-grab and a massive range overhead that he can convert from. He also has a command grab for up close mix that lead to the afro state which in turn leads to further mix up potential (since the afro becomes a gigantic flammable hurtbox). Biggest thing potentially against him is that you need to be able to engage with his item mechanic as it is so core to the character. 

Anji is my wildcard pick. He's the closest thing to a "counter" character in this game with how his twirl works (and he has a legit counter OD), and he has high/low/mid mix off of Fujin. Biggest knock against him is that I don't know how his normals hold up and the general online feeling for the char has not been positive, though I've never delved too far into why that is or how that has shaped up since the game has been out.

Just my $0.02. I think this starting roster is pretty strong and diverse so I think with a little bit of poking around you can find someone who clicks with you.

12 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Tbf I think if you played someone other than screen-sized sword girl you'd fall in love with that airdash button pretty quick. 😂

 

Nobody reads my text walls. 😭 Simultaneous press never works, I labbed that specifically.

Matt's a busy guy. Gotta bottom line it for him. 😁

I also read 'em but I apparently zoned out and missed that. Sorry!

The thing about the dash button is that I'm really used to double tapping for dashes so I do that reflexively. Which isn't bad per-se but the dash button is a no fail option which helps when you're trying to hit specific windows and helps stuff I usually beef up like trying to defensively backdash. Plus yeah it is super useful for managing air movement.

So what I usually do is either a) forget it completely, or b) split the difference and hit a direction before hitting dash which is the worst of all worlds. I'll get there though. I've definitely felt it more playing around with Gio and I-No the little bit I have. 

16 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

edit: when you drift RC, do you press the dash button and RC at the same time? Or do you like, plink it?

I've only ever gotten it to work right via plink. Even then I haven't gotten vertical drifts to work that way. Probably just a timing thing on my part. And not that big of a deal for what I'm usually using it for (air throw conversions so its easy to bake the 2,2 into the cancel).

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing. I also have the problem of right now my button discipline is kinda wonky and sometimes I hit the far right button (think it's L1 on the Obsidian) accidentally. So ideally I'd like that mapped to something that won't make me sad/dead.

Theoretically I'm only really going to use the RC button with drifts so it seems like it'll be best to have it close to the dash macro button. I'll mess around with that later today. Though it'll take time to get used to. I still flake on the fact that a dash button exists at all.

34 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

What’s your button layout?

P S D

K H Dash

Last two currently mapped to record/playback. I've been just RC'ing using 3 buttons.

To do drift RCs there is a bit of Tekken Pad Fingers going on (you can drift with regular double tap dashes but in plenty of situations the Dash button makes it so much easier). Doesn't feel ideal.

If I need to use drift RC more (which definitely seems like the case) I think I need to map an RC button. The way I do it now is gonna murder my hand.

I think its a context thing. SF is the "honest footsie" game so having buttons that explode into extra damage runs counter to the propaganda and thus inflamed the player base more. Plus they were really obnoxious in their early form before they started tweaking scaling and what you could get after which I think left long term mental scars.

GG has always had some manner of big dumb CHs that lead to fucked up combos so I think its less of a system shock. I think Danger Time was a closer analog to how CCs felt to play with/around. And the game is new enough that people haven't really sussed out whatever shenanigans lie behind the heavy CH state. I just found out about the OS property of CHs the other day thanks to EC's vid.

The visual noise element of it is obnoxious but I got used to it pretty quickly. For this game where CH confirms seem to be a big facet of picking up good damage I appreciate the game basically shaking me by the shoulders and screaming "GO NOW HIT THE BUTTON OLD MAN".

Regarding the meter thing, I think it is exacerbated by the pace of the game. I'm used to having time to check meter here and there but in this game it can be tricky when things are really going. KDs and combos are the best times to check in but that isn't super helpful with something like the blood gauge where if you slip on that it could blow out the round. Having more character based visuals for critical things like that would be nice, especially since you know more characters are going to have stuff like that.

18 minutes ago, Volt said:

I actually think the opposite. Having this much daily activity *without* going off-topic is much more impressive.

Goddammit Volt yes we all know that is true and great but I'm making an in joke here

Nevermind you ruined it 😭

Everyone enjoy May mirrors. The start of the 2nd game is wonderful.

EDIT: The round at 17:30. I'm fuckin dying. 🤣

45 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

..and right on cue, the Megashock GG thread has eclipsed the length of the SFV Story thread.  😏

 

"Strong from the start" sounds like shots fired.  😏

You know GG will have made it when the GG thread becomes the de facto FG General. 

When people talk about Oro or Akira in here for like 3 pages and set up VF5 matches then we can break out the champagne. 

2 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Games?

I'm fuckin beat tonight but I think I'll be around tomorrow evening for games. Not that it is particularly helpful right now.

11 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

Non-charged dust can be comboed from a red RC. The bubble will pop them and you can follow up from that. I’ve seen some Nagos and Nage’s Faust do it.

Yeah I had a duh moment as I was thinking about it more. It's actually pretty similar to HoS 2H in +R so now I've got the gears turning a bit more. No pun intended.

10 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

You needn't charge Dust to get the overhead, just tap it.  I've used it to tap a turtling Nago but until I find a combo off of it then it's just basically a Street Fighter overhead useful for ending a round.

 

Yeah sorry, I sort of mushed all the Dust usage together there. 

The thing about the regular OH that throws me is that it is kinda slow (20f, not sure if universal), very negative (-15ish or worse?) though it does good damage for a single hit. Not sure if you can get stuff off of CH but that wouldn't surprise me. It just seems kinda risky for what it is though I guess the SF analogy is closer to what it should be used for and with RISC you could potentially get a big 'ol CH starter. Worth trying out more I suppose.

The funny thing about dust combos is that they sort of do a shitload of damage even if you just mash out the double button. 

I forget regular Dust is even a thing honestly. Every time I get it is because I hit the button without a directional. Have people found it is useful as an overhead? People get real swingy in this game and full charged Dust seems a little slow to not get hit out of, intentionally or not.

I had the same reaction about character specific trials. Honestly I think the main reason they didn't do it is because that is something that gets a little weirder in the modern seasonal model. As patches and such roll in you can have trials that don't work anymore - SFV has a bunch of them after all these years. Custom Trials seems like something that can keep up with that over time in a better way which will be good (though I know shit all about it so maybe not).

32 minutes ago, Volt said:

May players... 🤣

I found a gif of one of my favorite sketches of all time that is relevant. I thought I dreamed it.

Spoilered as it's technically NSFW. Though I can't get it to embed which is probably for the best (I think because of the format).

1 hour ago, KingTubb said:

One thing I hope doesn't happen with strive that SFV did (and is a big reason I don't want to take the time to learn it) is just piling on the system mechanics. 

 

I get decision fatigue in SF games at this point... It's part of the reason I never really got on with MvC:

I think you'll be safe there. Odds are high that we will see in-match mechanics evolve as the game goes on (my wildcard bet: FB specials makes a return) but if you look at ArcSys games as a whole they rarely have a lot of that pregame selection. I think its because the characters themselves are often so idiosyncratic, you don't really get broad "toggle" mechanics as often as you get in Capcom games. The only one I can really think of is the Shadow versions for P4A though I could be flaking on others.

Also IMO a lot of that stuff for SFV is system spackle to try to smooth out the bumps with the design. Or costumes for thirst. Which funds more spackle.

8 hours ago, Illwill88 said:

Been lurking here and watching streams here and there game looks fun. Curious to hear what y'all think of it.

 

 

 

I like it a lot. I think it is a funkier sell if you're coming from other GG games - this game is roughly a blend of GG and SF in terms of how it plays relative to the other games - but if you don't have a lot of previous GG experience I think it is easy enough to come to fresh (honestly easier, old GG starts you off with weird/bad habits in this game sometimes).

I like the cast more than I thought I would. This is one of those games where I could see myself playing 60% of the cast which is always nice, especially since this game is definitely less complex at a character level than previous GGs so having a secondary character doesn't feel impossible.

As Rooks said its a game where I have fun even if I'm getting thrashed which is not something I can say for most FGs I've played (+R is the only one in recent memory for me). YMMV of course but I do think this game is just generally more approachable that way (with the cost being you probably don't have a "lifelong play and learn" game like +R).

The netcode continues to be rock solid. Some matches are a little rollback-y but it is very slight (not at all like SFVs teleport prone connections) and it always "feels" normal to play if that makes sense. Every once in awhile you'll get some dude who is connecting from New Guinea on a 56K modem and the match is really stuttery but those are exceptional cases. As someone in MD, USA I spent a good chunk of yesterday playing Rooks (West Coast US?) and Laughingman (UK IIRC) with zero issues. 

Bad points:

The lobbies. I don't even mean the design. That also sucks but if it functioned consistently it'd just be an eyesore that slowed things down a bit. The bigger issue is right now connecting with another person is pretty hit or miss. You can sometimes get  a string of "fail to connects" before you can finally pair up, and in some uncommon (but unfortunately not super rare) instances you sort of bug out and can't interact with any of the duel stations so you can't match up with anyone. A quick bounce in and out of online mode fixes that but it all adds up to just being irritating and the biggest thing that gets in the way of actually playing the game. I think you can definitely play through it (once you pair up the rematches seem to work 100% of the time barring full on server kick) but this is going to be the first real big pain point ArcSys has to smooth out.

Arc Sys Balance is in full effect. It was inevitable that some characters would release strong and boy howdy did they. I think on the whole between the damage and universal mechanics everyone has a fighting chance, but characters like Sol, Ram, and May are definitely really strong out of the gate. Not really that different from any FG release though, see SFV:S1 roster balance (RIP midscreen irish whip combos).

I do not think this is necessarily the game for you if you are a lab monster. I think there is a surprising amount to lab out and research, and there is some fine grain stuff that is going to take a lot of practice to get down (none of which you need day 1 mind). But, and this is probably unfair, in something like +R you can spend what feels like an infinite amount of time just practicing and perfecting how you play your character before you even start to crack into anything else. I don't want to make it sound like there isn't anything to lab or that you can't just hit up training mode for awhile and grind away at stuff. But I think if that is something you love, there are better games in this series for that. I think Strive is at it's best when you are playing someone else.

Just my  on the game after the past week. I think Vhozite is right, in that what will be really interesting to see is how this game evolves. I always have to check myself and be mindful that +R and Rev2 had a lot of revisions and years to get to the versions we are so familiar with. Barring something crazy I plan to be there to see what this game grows into.

1 hour ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Speaking of crying, GGs @GetTheTables!   I do not have an answer to your Ram.  With Nago I found a plan, just had trouble executing it.  I don't even have that for Ram.  And then your reactions I found scary and intimidating.  Add in your solid punishes and Ram's big mid-range buttons and I'm 😭.  But we beat the lobby boss!  

 

GGs man, Ram is a dick. Part of it is just exposure though. I think as you get more comfortable in this game it will feel better. I instantly feel a lot worse in matches where my opponent is more mobile.

As I mentioned I think you had the right idea with the projectiles. Like it is definitely scary - Ram can counter poke them from forever away and IAD'ing over it can be bad - but you need something to not let me just rule the ground with swords. Plus if you get me into the air you can start AA'ing me instead of vice versa. Its not easy but from the other side that felt worse for me than just us having a sword duel.

Speaking of that you also had the right idea with trying to footsie around the swords. Again anything to keep me adjusting space, maybe getting closer which makes IAD more of a threat or getting farther out which lets you throw plasma. 6P may also work, haven't tried it. If Ram is poking a lot you can try IAD'ing in since her swords have a ton of recovery. I think another RPS facet is to represent IAD block so that even if I guess right I don't get a big reward out of it. I think it'll also get better as your pressure and combos tighten up. Ram's only reversal option is her one OD so if the opponent can pressure her well she kinda just has to sit there and take it until she finds an egress moment. 

Also and this is a more general thing for Ram: both sword slashes are really punishable oB. Not free since f.S can gatling into 2S/H and either can be sword tossed canceled but a) H can still be pretty punishable without it really spacing itself out, and b) if Ram starts tossing swords her options instantly narrow a lot. I don't know how true it is but I feel like I get away with a lot of f.S or H that I shouldn't (not just you, broadly with the char, but that may be due to a+b and be another part of her dickhead factor). If you can get her to toss H sword it cuts out her farthest normal, the 2nd part of her stupid long range gatling, one of her juciest CH buttons, and her best jump in. I'm really conservative so I try to only toss when it has really low consequences or I desperately need more space. If you hit up the towers I think you'll run into a lot of Ram players tossing out swords like they're Oprah and then you can maul the shit outta them as they flail helplessly.

As for reactions I appreciate the nod but I'm a 38 year old computer nerd with bad eyes. If I can do this anyone can. Just takes practice. 🙂 (hitbox doesn't hurt!)

Just my thoughts from the other side. And yes we did kick the shit out of lobby boss.

Also GGs @LaughingmanGlad we were able to Strive it up. I hope the player lobbies get refined to not be such a nightmare to search for.

If you look closely at May's you can make out that hers are just two skulls and a dolphin.

@AlkipotI checked out the VOD of your last stream. Your May is a fucking beast. Keep on rollin' em. 

For anyone trying to figure out May that is a pretty good stream to watch to see that danger zone I was talking about. The Ky players just kept getting eaten alive by it (in fairness I legit don't know what his options are there). That scenario is something I think we're all going to have to get really familiar with being in and dealing with.

One more I forgot to post:

Nothing too crazy here but a good general reminder that although the throws in this game aren't quite old GG fast, they're still real damn fast and need to be played around a bit.

Also Spooky with the powerful GG background art. 💦