GetTheTables

Bless you for organizing these Darc. I know you're dedicated when you're willing to do discord dives to try to set it up.

My weekend plans are up in the air but if I can hop on I'll happily feed my rusty ass to the bracket. 

(phrasing)

18 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

 

How do you know it might be coming, is it telegraph by certain spark or animation?

 

or because it had a separate dedicated gauge which makes it effective than how the others implement it? 

I'm still a GG noob so take this with a grain of salt but so far as I know Bursts are unreactable. However I think that is also what makes them work so well in practice.

Because they are unreactable, the attacker either has to make the read as to when they think their opponent will Burst - which involves understanding their own combo structure, their opponent's tendencies, how much health the opponent has, if Burst is even on the table - or try to close out the round with Burst-safe options - combos that don't have an easy/reasonable Burst point (see Rev Johnny), throws, or supers.

And since it is a read, the defender also gets to have steps in this dance because they can try to throw off their opponent's guess by Bursting with a different timing, scrambling to force unfavorable hit situations (which may lead to a Burstable route when the opponent otherwise would have kept it safe), or just having big 'ol balls and not bursting at all (assuming they won't die) then using their opponent's burst bait/combo flub/whatever opportunity to get back into the game. 

Its this interaction which I think makes the mechanic interesting and fun because its ultimately still the two players making choices and throwing them at each other, then seeing who was right. I.e. the core of what makes FGs fun in the first place. 🙂  Any mechanic that starts to get away from that interaction starts to take things in a worse direction at least in terms of long term fun-factor.

Also worth noting is that Burst isn't just a defensive mechanic. You can Gold Burst to try to give yourself 100% meter which can be just as big of a momentum shift as a Burst, sometimes more so given how much GG and particularly Strive lets you go fucking ham with RC based pressure and combo extension.

4 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

What makes a burst mechanics positive and has depth in GG titles and why it can't work the same way in Mahvel? Is just because it's punishable? or I missed a lot more in the technical side.

So just my read on it but I think the following things are factors:

• As you said, Burst is punishable. Its actually an interactive combo breaker that way, in that the attacker can try to bait it/blow it up (depending on the game) and thus the attacker feels like they still have offensive agency.
• Similarly, Burst isn't a get-out-of-jail free card. The hitbox of the burst needs to connect to save you, and it can be blocked/thrown (depending on the game) so you can't be too obvious as to when you use it. Because of that, the defender needs to be mindful of how they apply the "combo breaker". I think "automatic" combo breakers generate more frustration because the attacker does not feel like they can control the situation, or that they will inevitably have to just eat the CB to be able to play the game the way they want to.
• It is very clear when Burst is available, and it doesn't regenerate particularly quickly. So you're probably only dealing with it once a round most of the time and it is really obvious when it is on the table.
• Burst has always been in GG. I think there is a lot to be said for player expectations based on legacy (look at SF for example) so if you're sitting down to play GG you know Burst is a thing. Adding CBs to other games can feel a lot more disruptive (even if that entry was totally designed around it) to legacy players because they don't have that association built in.

CBs are an interesting thing to consider but I think hitting the balance on them is difficult. Hell if you look at NRS they're still trying to find a breaker system they like and they are 3 iterations in (4 if you count Injustice). As games have slowly grown more combo heavy I think it is natural to try to consider things like CBs as a way to keep the game from becoming a 1 player exercise, but I feel like a fair number of systems I've run into feel sort of tacked on in a way that doesn't make anyone happy.

tldr: Burst is nifty and continues to be. Just let ArcSys make all future games. 🙃

Woke up to the Jack-O trailer. She looks neat. Streamlined but still seemingly similar to Xrd.

I need to dig up the EVO matches. I legit forgot it was even happening. Not that I would have had much time to watch it anyways but still.

The official burger-sheriff tie in is great. It definitely feels like a player nod but hey maybe they do have deep lore built out for burger-sheriff and his extended family. I'd love to think back in Xrd when they were designing backgrounds they were like "See that guy? His brother is gonna be the Secretary of Absolute Defense."

The patch seems like its going to do what most people want: tune-up underperforming stuff and not necessarily just hammer on all the good stuff. We'll see the particulars in a few weeks. Everyone get your Sol matches in during the interim just in case!

18 hours ago, Illwill88 said:

Is it just me or are floors kind of pointless for gauging skill? I know ranked mode is not concrete or anything but I've managed to get to 10th floor I either body people or have no chance there it seems to be a really large gap between people on the same floor.  

 

As someone who was kind of apprehensive about strive it's pretty fun. But I'll still have moments where I'm not really feeling it. Most of the fun is coming from playing Potemkin he's legit probably one of the most fun characters I've ever learned, but he also feels hopeless in certain mu. But who cares I'm just playing for fun.

I think its just that the player base is all over the map. Partially because the game is still new-ish, and partially because players are just that way.

For instance in SFV even playing across the same ranked level of players you're going to run into people all over the board in terms of skill/approach. We've all started matches against people in various games and thought "Oh, *that* is how you got here. Gotcha." Throw match up variance into the mix and yeah it can definitely feel a little all over the place. But I think that is normal. And possibly exacerbated in Strive where people can be dodging certain match ups and/or not have much experience with them depending on who they've played to get to where they are. Like I'm on 10 but my match up experience is still relatively shallow, with Pot being an amusing example considering your character choice and experience (you've almost certainly fought more Rams than I have Pots).

I think some of that gap smooths out over time, personal and in terms of the community of players. We're still kind of in the wild west, though honestly if playing SFV for years taught me anything its that you'll always be dealing with cowboys so keep your 6 shooter loaded. 

GG usually has some match ups that feel awful, depending on your char. This version of Strive has some offensive god-beasts walking around so yeah playing the tanky grappler is going to lead to some matches where you just die in the corner (or feels like it anyways). Hell even not playing a tanky grappler it feels like that; my strat with in most cases is just "murder them/wall them out and not have to deal with their shenanigans". If a Sol/May/Chipp gets loose it can all go south real quick. 

Once I get some time to get back into this we should try to find a time for matches. We haven't played since ye olde SFV days with its Dreamcast era netcode.

8 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

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I saw that earlier on Reddit. It seems likely that Jack-O and Happy Chaos will be coming within this pass with both models and specific voice lines. I was honestly expect Baiken to return in the second pass but I wouldn’t be angry if she did come. Also wonder what this could mean for Jam and Asuka, particularly the latter since he has a different playable model that’s not used in story mode. Honestly he’s the second character I was hoping for in the first datamine.
 

Slayer in the game with a dash button could be insane if he’s relatively unchanged. I hope counterhit pilebunker just absolutely destroys Chipp.

 

Everyone's favorite, spoiler-offs!

Double post for new data mine stuff.

Spoiling the vid just for maximum care.

That outro is fantastic. 👽

2 hours ago, BornWinner said:

I could be wrong but I think I remember Sega of Japan absolutely hating  Eternal Champions while wanting Virtua Fighter to be the Sega fighting game instead. So the fact that a reboot of some kind hasn’t happened yet or that EC wasn’t listed in the VF survey is not a surprise. It’s sad, it really was a cool game.

Based on this highly scholarly video yeah that seems like how it played out. Definitely a shame for it to get sunk like that.

9 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

The guy who created it (and was pushing for a

new one) had to go to Sega for permission (maybe they had publishing rights or something?) idk, but it seemed to stop there.

 

actually, I just remembered. I think that man passed away several months back, so we’ll probably never see it… damn.

 

a new def jam game would be awesome as well. I

loved stomping people with Method Man. Like a year or two ago, the def jam Twitter account said if they got a million followers they’d look into making a new game, and reached that count in a few days… nothing seemed to come of it so I unfollowed them fucks

That's a shame. The real early stuff I remember seeing on SRK looked neat. EC is one of those series that is probably super dead. I can't see Sega making a new one but I also can't see them just lending the license out for someone to do something with it (and I don't know how enthusiastic anyone is to pay buckos for it). Hopefully someone starts work on Everlasting Warriors or some shit with all your favorite Legally Distinct versions of characters.

Def Jam is another game I'd be fine with a spiritual successor to. The themeing of the older games was great but the real reason I loved those games was the engine. Just give me a new psuedo-wrestling game that lets me fold a guy in half then kick him in the dick.

1 minute ago, Mattatsu said:

They also had Def Jam in there so you’re probably right. I kept my eye out for Eternal Champions but no such luck

I would do some dark shit to get a new, good Def Jam. I fucking loved those games. Best we can probably hope for nowadays is a good spiritual successor.

I remember there was that EC reboot being floated awhile back but I guess nothing came of that. That's another series I'd love to see get a modern shot. The old games are full of 90s 'tude and jank but there's some fun stuff in there. KI2013 made me a believer that almost no series is beyond getting a really slick modern follow up.

19 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

In the VF5 survey that list a bunch of fighting game franchises and ask which have you played before and mother f’ing Primal Rage was in the list…

 

Sega, what are you not telling me?!

Man a Primal Rage reboot would be something.

I think whoever came up with that survey was just a big Primal Rage fan though. Like if I was making surveys like that you bet your ass I'd have Weaponlord on that list just to see whose opinions actually matter. ⚔️

If the SquareEnix Avengers game is anything to go by, Disney is all about making a Marvel based game with fucking ugly character models and boring as shit art direction. 

So NRS should be ready to crush it. 🙃

I kid. I don't hate NRS. Their games aren't for me (all other things being equal I'll never be able to get into the flow of the games, or lack thereof) but I get how someone could be really into 'em. Hopefully whatever they put out next is rad.

1 hour ago, Mattatsu said:

Story spoiler…

 

  Hide contents

I think you missed a pretty big twist. Remember how I-No had a boyfriend in an old timeline with long blond hair and she realized right before she “died” when Axl was crying that he also had long blond hair? Remember how Axl also pined for an old GF he lost long ago due to time? Now, do you remember the girl with a familiar voice who found Axl in a park later?

 

edit to clarify: they aren’t the same people they were in the previous timelines, but rather alternate timeline versions of them… if that makes any sense at all lol

 

COUNTER-SPOILER

Also yeah actually playing I-No is a pain in the ass. Drumming on the dash button to practice hover dash stuff definitely fucks with my arm. And she has a lot of weird things to get used to in general, like figuring out how to use Chemical Love correctly (read: less than you think you should but more than not at all). Still though I've had a good bit of fun playing her the little I have, and she's significantly different from Ram so its a neat change of pace when I do switch it up.

It's sort of a backhanded compliment but she's a really fun side character that I couldn't imagine playing as a primary, with the kinda funny caveat that she is technical enough (by this game's standard anyways) that she is someone that dabbling with is less fun than, say, Gio.

Ciel looks fuckin dope

@VhoziteI get what you mean about the characters. One of the criticisms I have with this game is that it definitely has that modern game issue where the design results in some of the gameplay feeling clipped in weird ways, with a big hesitation on having strong zoning. I think some of this is due to early balance hiccups, and some of it doesn't bother me as much (I'm happy to just poke away all day with Ram for instance), but I definitely get it.

Unfortunately I'm not sure how much of that is going to change. Thinking about the remaining DLC chars, assuming the leaks are accurate (and that seems pretty likely at this point) I think there are two candidates for solid space control, but I'd be surprised if (assuming they are zoners or zoner-ish) they don't end up being weak up close. We'll see for sure I guess. There is one wildcard char that I'm pretty sure they'll rework from their previous version, but who knows how that will turn out (see: what happened with Ram from Xrd to here).

Maybe Goldlewis? He actually has some decent space control and his mobility doesn't seem awful, weirdly enough. I guess it depends on how many half-circles you are comfortable doing in a match.

------

Managed to play this weekend but just long enough to knock the rust off. Hopefully I can get matches in this week. I'm feeling the call again. 

Messed around with I-No a bit more. Anyone have any tech for easier TKs on hitbox? I looked up one technique that I haven't really tried yet, as realistically with her I'm so far away from really needing that skill. But it'd be good to practice. She's so funky to work with I find I spend a lot more time in training mode with her than Ram, unless I have something more specific to practice with Ram.

Also finished the story. Non-spoilery stuff: its good dumb anime fun. I think it is presented much, much better than Xrd's was. Decent chunks of it are actively fun to watch.

Spoiler-y stuff

37 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

But did you buy it

Twice

3 minutes ago, misterBee said:

Seems like lots of people here are playing Strive but nobody been battling with me. 😠

 

Who wants to get a beating?

Hopefully next time I'm on we can catch up and play. We got games in way back when this came out and never since. I'll put put the call out on discord next time I get...time. 

2 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

See my doo-doo pot with your old man hands i-no 

Its on 🧐

FT20 livestream. Loser buys the winner's Goldlewis DLC

(lol jk I already bough the season pass because I am a s c h i l l)

Yeah I was enjoying cracking into I-No last time I played. You can absolutely feel the difference in ease of use between her and Ram but she's fun. Trying to land one of her corner combos I think legit gave me muscle strain. 😄

Every time I think I'll have time to actually play, work revolts. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend.

Maybe its just me but I've never found any of the Strive trailers to be particularly exciting. They're mostly tone pieces. 

In that regard the Goldlewis trailer was really solid. Really conveys a ponderous, strong character. Very likely not my kind of character but I absolutely love the design.

Hopefully by the time he comes out I'll have time to play again.

15 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Are there any soundtracks in the game that are kinda chill?   I'm trying to keep my heartrate down, esp in training mode.

 

Put "Lily" on loop for maximum chill. That came up as a random spin when I was playing Martian and it was the most chill I've ever been fighting Nago (relatively speaking).

27 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

PS4 weekly meet-up tonight at 9:00PM EST, anyone? 

 

Let's say, West coast park 42? 

 

Yay? Nay? 

Wish I could. Thursdays are an outstanding IRL friend meet up day (now virtual due to distance and The 'Vid). If you guys do get together, rock on. 🤘

Yeah it may just be Rams options but my experience is similar to Phantom_Miria's.

6P works a lot of the time. What I've found is that I actually hit it way too early. I sort of AA with SFV normals timing but you kind of need to use 6P like a DP otherwise it'll whiff before they even get to you.

For anything funky A2A P is usually a good answer. Ram's j.P is real good so maybe I'm spoiled. But there are definitely angles or approaches you need to meet them at if you don't have a DP or something like that.

I need to use 2H more for far jumps now that I think about it. Even though Strive is a lot less aerial than previous games I do find that half of the AA battle in this game is just identifying the angle and knowing how best to respond. Something I still need to work on.