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The Guilty Gear general: Getting Wildly Assaulted in the Keyhole

ZioSerpe

By ZioSerpe
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Gasarocky Level 8

Gasarocky

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Clone is super scrubby now. About Sol levels of scrubby. You can literally just YOLO it and things will be fine.

 

But that kinda feels like the vast majority of Nago's offense. Think I tried to challegne some gaps, or what felt like gaps, and I just died for all of it the other day. I'm kinda fine with some of it but boy its brutal.

Spin is the only other yolo thing he has and it was considered the best move in the game before any patches, but I think all characters having a 5f move brings it back down to "very strong but reasonable," where clone is just, as you said, basically scrubby.

 

Spin at least he now must spend blood again to keep someone there for sure. He'd only definitely get a turn after at range, but at range he no longer can threaten throw without Fukyo. 

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Gasarocky Level 8

Gasarocky

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Lol how is a special move scrubby? 

Have you spent a bunch of time using the move? It's incredibly powerful, easy to use in a huge variety of situations, and solves a bunch of problems on it's own.

 

You don't need to use much decision making to use it effectively. As such it kind of feels like an obvious, easy answer. The only consideration that prevent it from being truly scrubby is the high blood cost to use it in some situations.

Edited by Gasarocky
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Where did either Gasarocky or I say that people shouldn't use it?

 

You literally called it scrubby...that adjective is used to describe behaviors you should avoid if you want to stop speed running L’s.

 

I really it was an actually serious use of the word i just think it’s a weird way to describe an attack.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

you should avoid if you want to stop speed running L’s.

 

Eh...Gasarocky understood me just fine. You're trying way too hard to add extra stuff to it.

 

As a matter of fact, I explained why the move was silly and he elaborated. S you're really choosing to make a mountain out of a molehill for no reason.

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Gasarocky Level 8

Gasarocky

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Vhozite said:

You literally called it scrubby...that adjective is used to describe behaviors you should avoid if you want to stop speed running L’s.

 

I really it was an actually serious use of the word i just think it’s a weird way to describe an attack.

Its scrubby cause it doesn't really require much thought and is very strong for how little tactical effort it needs to be used effectively

 

Doesn't mean I'm not using it while I have it, but it's just honesty to recognize that it does a bit of extra carrying. Like I've literally won matches specifically because of that buff, not necessarily cause I played well in those rounds.

 

Scrubby is used all kinds of ways but the way I see it more often when referring to people is the mindset thing yeah, but when used on moves, people generally mean the move is very strong for how easy it is to use, and in this case also in a wide variety of situations, so you don't need to think much. Just like scrubs don't think much.

 

Edited by Gasarocky
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Eh...Gasarocky understood me just fine. You're trying way too hard to add extra stuff to it.

 

As a matter of fact, I explained why the move was silly and he elaborated. S you're really choosing to make a mountain out of a molehill for no reason.

Nah i understood you fine, which is why I initially didn’t say anything...what you meant is obvious.

 

But the more I thought about it the more I didn’t like something in the game being referred to like that it. It’s like hearing your mom refer to an Xbox as a gameboy, but also I don’t want anyone new here reading y’all’s comments and thinking it’s ok to call moves they don’t like scrubby. Also don’t want actual scrubs (ie not you guys) feeing vindicated about their wrong feelings. 
 

So yeah I nitpicked it. Be mad idc 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Be mad idc 

 

I'm not the one whose mad, obviously you are so you went reaching for some old post that's literally accurate to what happens in the game. Here's the example of the NRS stuff I said was wack and I didn't like:

 

"

Sonia shoots rings.

Sub Zero counters by shooting ice ball.

They pass by each other because Ed Boon doesn't know wtf he is doing.

Sub Zero gets hit by rings, left standing up.

Sonia gets hit by ice ball, frozen in place.

Sub Zero dashes up 3 times because ice ball capture state is 10,000 frames and gets a full combo.

You got "outplayed"."

 

Here's that literal interaction happening in tournament play:

 

 

Only thing different is that the guy dropped the combo. Hell the commentators mentioned earlier in that set that Sub Zero has the upperhand BECAUSE the interaction I mentioned works exactly how I said it does.

 

 

You were reaching the first time and that's fine. You went double reaching now because I described some massive buffs a move got as scrubby, the guy that plays Nago agreed and now you're dropping spaghetti about some word. I was right about the NRS projectile interaction. Nago's clone projectile is crazy buff now.

 

Is what it is. :coffee:

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

 

"

Sonia shoots rings.

Sub Zero counters by shooting ice ball.

They pass by each other because Ed Boon doesn't know wtf he is doing.

Sub Zero gets hit by rings, left standing up.

Sonia gets hit by ice ball, frozen in place.

Sub Zero dashes up 3 times because ice ball capture state is 10,000 frames and gets a full combo.

You got "outplayed"."

 

Here's that literal interaction happening in tournament play:

 

 

Only thing different is that the guy dropped the combo. Hell the commentators mentioned earlier in that set that Sub Zero has the upperhand BECAUSE the interaction I mentioned works exactly how I said it does.

 

I don’t know how to quote this in a different thread, so I’ll address it here. If someone wants to move this to the NRS thread be my guest. 


@Sonero

 

Did you even watch this clip you linked? Sonia shoots rings at him twice in a row, predictably throws a third, then gets clapped by Ice Ball because you are not supposed carelessly throws fireballs at Sub-Zero. Sub reads and punishes with Ice Ball exactly the way he’s supposed to. 
 

What don’t you understand? I literally told you last time that the interaction works exactly like you said. 


https://megashock.net/topic/12-the-street-fighter-v-thread/?do=findComment&comment=59771

 

What are you even arguing?

Edited by Vhozite
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, misterBee said:

 

 

But Sonero hates NRS and their games, and nothing you say will change his mind about it.  It is known.  🙂

This really has nothing to do with NRS games 

 

@Sonero takes every disagreement as a personal attack and thinks cause I disagreed with two of his posts that’s I’m frothing at the mouth mad about something. 
 

You’re not special nigga I don’t go out of my way to antagonize you. Stop being a pussy.

Edited by Vhozite
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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Did you even watch this clip you linked?

 

They talk about the fact that Ice Ball gives him an edge because of the same thing I describe...here:

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

takes every disagreement as a personal attack and thinks cause I disagreed with two of his posts that’s I’m frothing at the mouth mad about something. 

 

I don't take disagreements personally. You tried to bring receipts on stuff you don't even back you up.

 

But not only that, those receipts had F all to do with anything because I don't like NRS projectiles for playing exactly the way the play. Which is neither here nor there because this isn't the NRS Defense force thread, its the quality high damage game thread.

 

17 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I literally told you last time that the interaction works exactly like you said. 

 

Yeah, it worked like I said in that link you posted, it works like I said in that interaction, it works like I said when the commentators which the commentators mentioned...so what did things working how I said they did, them working out that way in NRS games, working out in commentary and everything else have to do with people who misrepresent games?

 

I don't like NRS games, but I didn't lie about how the mechanic worked in practice. I said that shit sucks. Which it does. But I didn't say it didn't work the way it does.

 

 

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sonero said:

 

 

I don't like NRS games, but I didn't lie about how the mechanic worked in practice. I said that shit sucks. Which it does. But I didn't say it didn't work the way it does.

 

 

You said in your initial post that Sub did not outplay Sonya (you put outplayed in quotes) when he absolutely did. To imply anything else happened is misrepresenting the game. THAT is what I was calling scrubby. You’re fine to not like it ofc, but in that clip Sub read Sonya after she tried flying close to the sun. 
 

Stop acting like a brought up MK outta nowhere. I was specifically responding to this.

 

8 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

I don't get pressed about people's opinions. I just call out demonstrably wrong stuff.

 

If you don't like a game, you don't like a game. But people saying random dumb shit about other games is the biggest gateway to people not trying them. Not saying this is you, but people tend to misremember stuff constantly. That part is fine. But when it comes to new games, people also tend to exaggerate based on a thing here or there.


You stay hating on NRS games (which is fine), but I brought it up because in that whole convo you were talking out of pocket on MK11 (implying sub doesn’t outplay people with Ice Ball, calling him a zoner, low tier, etc). Hella wrong statements and exaggerations just like you accused other people of doing.

 

Again I don’t have beef with you or anything but you or someone else says something I don’t like I’ll probably say something. I’m not hating on you the person.

 

Im for sure hating on you right now though. Stay in your feelings over niggas talking on the internet.

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Gasarocky Level 8

Gasarocky

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

But does it AA as well as beyblade?  

 

Beyblade as an AA still gets my goat. Grr.

 

That and being unable to low profile a couple of Nago's normals. 

 

Losing a fireball war with him is.... eh, old hat. fbs don't do high damage anyway

AA is it's main weakness basically. And it's not just losing the fireball war that makes it strong, it's that on top of everything else it does(also reversal safe oki from long range or close range and really strong frametrap). And his projectile DOES lead to a combo and oki, even from nearly full screen.

 

2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Nah i understood you fine, which is why I initially didn’t say anything...what you meant is obvious.

 

But the more I thought about it the more I didn’t like something in the game being referred to like that it. It’s like hearing your mom refer to an Xbox as a gameboy, but also I don’t want anyone new here reading y’all’s comments and thinking it’s ok to call moves they don’t like scrubby. Also don’t want actual scrubs (ie not you guys) feeing vindicated about their wrong feelings. 

I like the move, I even think it's fun, it's just clearly too strong and doesn't require much thought, so I said what I said. I just think it was buffed a little too much, to the point where it's unnecessarily strong.

 

I don't know why actual scrubs would feel vindicated about pointing out how a strong move is a strong move. Like, that still wouldn't be why a scrub loses. Just like spin being strong still isn't an excuse for scrub complaints that hated Nago before the patch. Or Sol or Ram or whatever else people bitch about

 

I'm not saying the move is unbeatably strong, but it's very strong for very low risk, in a lot of situations.

Edited by Gasarocky
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted

I’ve fought Zato a couple times now and I might have to hit up YouTube or something because I still have no idea what this character is doing to me. That’s not even hyperbole I legit do not know what’s going on when he has Eddie jumping around all over the place. He could be terrible or the best character in the game I have no idea. Might try to use him myself a bit just to get familiar.

 

Regarding the rest of the roster, I fought Anji for the first time last night. Still have yet to fight Pot, Millia, or Jack-O. Think I’ve hit everyone else at least once. 
 

Also, how is the online for you guys? I ask because I’m still getting failures to connect a lot when I try to fight people in the park. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Also, how is the online for you guys? I ask because I’m still getting failures to connect a lot when I try to fight people in the park. 

I still get those from time to time but being in match is great. I notice they happen when you tried to jump in a bit faster than normal. If the opponent's avatar is still in the post win cheer animation, you can't reconnect. So the game won't let you start a new fight until they are fully out of their recap screen and done cheering.

 

22 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I’ve fought Zato a couple times now and I might have to hit up YouTube or something because I still have no idea what this character is doing to me. That’s not even hyperbole I legit do not know what’s going on when he has Eddie jumping around all over the place.

 

Which part is giving you trouble? Mind you, people have been downplaying how good Zato is in this game for a while now.

 

The Eddie basics is that he has 2 ways to come out: he can be normal summoned or summoned attacking. New to this game is that he can cancel the animation of his attack with a second action (which is cheap as all hell). Lets take the drill move. Zato can make Eddie do the drill, let one drill out and either: call him back to restore the gauge or make him do a different attack. This also applies to the anti air one where Eddie jumps in an arc.

 

The other part of this is that Eddie's attack can only be canceled during certain parts. So if he doesn't cancel it, Eddie will do the full animation. Some of the attacks move eddie forward (and has recovery frames) so that's when you can jab him and kill him. Some of the attacks also have gaps or blind spots in them:

 

 Leap some characters can actually crouch under. After he lands, you are free to jab him if the Zato player overextended Eddie.

Pierce (the move where eddie swings both arms) has a 6 frame gap in between both arm swings. After the first arm swing, you can jab eddie and pop him.

Oppose can be crossed up. If you hit Eddie from behind when he is posturing, you hit him out of the attack. Additionally, the attack has longish start up so you can run throw Zato out of trying the whole thing if he does it reckless.

 

Drills can go suck a nut. But drills don't move Eddie forward. So Drills are covering for Zato, so the threat won't be eddie attacks, it'll come from Zato being able to take up real estate.

 

Zato can also push eddie full screen by hitting him with Drunkard Shade (his anti firebal tool). This leads to two situations most of the time: Eddie will either be behind you or Eddie is gonna be over extended and Zato has to dash in to protect him. The overextended part is tricky because trying to pop Eddie might end up with you getting hit. Depending on where Zato is, he might be able to run a bit forward and do a drill. IF you nail eddie and eat that little bit of damage, its fine trade for the most part.

 

When Eddie lands behind you, he gets to have party time because its hard for him to jump over you. You'll have a ton of hitboxes that you can't interact with right up your butt. In this situation, you're dealing with more than getting mixed.

 

The Zato mix up is understandable but still scary as hell. Once you're in the blender, you really get opened up through overhead or throws. The way that works is F-ed up to all hell though. He has two ground overheads he can hit you with: his 6K, 5D or doing shenanigans with 6H. 6H is the move that launches him forward and turns him into a skeleton with a claw coming out of it. The thing with that is that he can jump cancel it on hit and do extra aerial attacks. I have to trianing mode some basic strings and other details, because I'm pretty sure you can tell how you should block based on where the animation is on Eddie. Overheads cash out if he can get them to combo into Eddie. Then he does a preposterous amount of damage to you. So you have to get good at looking for them. He also has a standing low in 5K, so if he pressures you crouching, he still has an option to make you flinch by standing up and hitting it.

 

 

Throws lead to different situations. Command grabs reset the entire situation. It fills up the Eddie bar and then he gets to pressure you again. Regular throw attempts are rough because he can combo from them; if the throw whiffs then Eddie covers the whiff animation.  You mostly want to avoid being in this part of the blender.

 

 

ALSO

 

When Zato hits you, he may not be looking to open you up. Zato can push you all the way from midscreen to corner with a giant ass blockstring. Frankly, its bullshit and I hate him 😭 .  The reason why he can sort of play this game is because one of his supers is also bullshit and I hate it. He has a super where he throws Eddie in the shape of a sword at you. That insane torture device will either place eddie in front of you if your cornered or force you to block wherever you are at and place Eddie behind you. So while he is cracking up your RISC gauge, and he is building meter, and he is going ham with Eddie doing nonsense....he can then reset thed eddie meter by doing super.

 

A few important notes about the character:

 

2S xx Drill and 5H xx Drill have a small gap that's not worth a damn. Its basically a true blockstring and if you challenge it, you'll get hit. So you gotta hold that drill. Whomever you play may have options but Gio don't as far as I know.

 

The way air movement works is tricky and weird. He isn't stopping voluntarily, initiating the dash makes him spawn wings and then he goes into flight mode. Its good to keep in mind so that you don't react to the wrong thing while he is in the air. I thought they were initially holding the flight, but nah its just the start up animation making things look odd.

 

You can 6P the hell out of his F.S. This is kind of important to remember since its a long normal that he ccan jam at you from round start. 2S is should go in trash though.

 

Haven't watched this (Been meaning to just because I wanna learn how to play Zato in general) but I've seen another of this guy's vids and it was really good:

 

 

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Gasarocky Level 8

Gasarocky

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, BornWinner said:

I honestly don’t think it was talking about a character at all. I think it was just a joke about Mariah Carey. It wouldn’t be the first time the ArcSys Twitter speaking about something unrelated to Guilty Gear using Guilty Gear images.

Only thing I'd say against this is that November is likely when the next character is coming. They said the 3rd would be out this year and December is a bad month to release a DLC, so November is pretty likely IMO

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BornWinner Level 17

BornWinner

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Gasarocky said:

Only thing I'd say against this is that November is likely when the next character is coming. They said the 3rd would be out this year and December is a bad month to release a DLC, so November is pretty likely IMO

I agree. I’m not saying we won’t get a character in November, I’m just saying that the post is not a hint to that character.

 

Speaking of…

 

IMG_9844.webp
 

Two new private videos has shown up in Arcsys’s Strive playlist. We should be getting a character soon.

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