The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

[CESTUS III]

22 minutes ago, Daemos said:

I disagree. Not every NPC should take a slot IMO unless they have a really good idea (and Genie from Aladdin is not it). And there's no guarantee that a character like Azam won't be developed into something sad like Falke or Lucia.

Fuck that i loved Azam being so in your face stereotype that throw you back straight to SF2 (something i loved of SF4 vibes designing new chars), plus he had the whole unseen life as Master grappler who could use wind powers too... even gameplay wise would have been pretty unique get a big body grappler who can also throw ki (wind) attacks

 

Many slots have been spent in worse ways in SFV lol

 

26 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Like Bosch should really be special if he wants to join the roster (and have some hidden fighting style we don't know about) because there are about a dozen petit Asians in the franchise that are aching to return to the spotlight.
 

 

But Bosch could work as south east asian area rep, would not be another "petit asian"

Thailand guess still count as south east Asia, but is ever been it's own thing with very strong martial identity due Muay Thai, but outside that SE Asia area did'nt got any rep in SF

 

Be it a Malaysian or Indonesian Silat rep, or a Philipino doing Arnis/Eskrima/Kali, that's definitely a thing Capcom can look for while trying to fix one of the few holes still have... actually few post above Miðgarðsorm shows a malaysian/Silat rep was actually considered for SFV (and even more than Azam, SADLY she did'nt made it)

 

Let's not pretend SF pick does'nt work that way, waaaaaay more than parkour or wind powers, Rashind was in SF first and foremost to be the arab desert guy SF did'nt had till SFV (and it's awesome h jumped in also for that lol)

 

56 minutes ago, Daemos said:

He looks Indonesian, Malaysian or Vietnamese. But he also looks Nayshallese. The colorful outfit reminds me of some stuff I saw other NPCs wear.

I fear will end up Nayshallese, as @Chun-Li_Foreverthought some days ago lol

 

But if we there's gods protecting SF we will not get a bullshit nationality and will get real one lol, even just hinted (like Kolin -> Ukraine), damn story trying to get in the way of muh world tour of interstyle highly stereotype exotic brawls

 

Btw as said bunch of times i think somewhere in Bosch concept, even if he may never be officialized (example if is from Nayshall), name is key

SE Asian look, Dutch name, chances are the char is supposed to be Indonesian (IF they want to make him grounded SF char and not made up Nayshall)

Because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies

SE asian and dutch names are a strange combination to hit casually 😄

 

Btw if he ever gain slot in main cast (and i hope he do, we got so few new male chars), could be interesting to see how his alt costumes looks like, may give info on wich place he reps (or wink at)

[Daemos]

Ok but should Bosch take the place of one of these guys to fill the southeast Asia quota?

 

Fei Long

Yun

Yang

Adon

 

I’d rather get a new male character that’s completely new like Bollywood dancer/fighter or Gill’s fire herald who is from sub-saharan Africa (not light skinned like Elena).

 

We’ll see how Bosch turns out. Hopefully he has more to offer than being the apprentice of the apprentice character.

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

Ok but should Bosch take the place of one of these guys to fill the southeast Asia quota?

 

Fei Long

Yun

Yang

Adon

 

I’d rather get a new male character that’s completely new like Bollywood dancer/fighter or Gill’s fire herald who is from sub-saharan Africa (not light skinned like Elena).

 

We’ll see how Bosch turns out. Hopefully he has more to offer than being the apprentice of the apprentice character.

 

Should not take "their place"

 

Fei Long - deserve to be in, skipped SFV and get in as Bruce Lee rather than as petit asian

 

Yun/Yang- i like Yun more than Jamie, but Jamie easily took their turn already in SF6, he's clearly there as successor/replacement

Spoiler

 

Adon-  as said Thailand/Muay Thai is ever a thing on his own. Btw rather than fear Bosch, Adon chances are crippled by default due Sagat far outperforming him in terms of popularity (+that artwork in Nakayama's post)

Spoiler

 

 

Bollywood dancer is terrible, if that have to be India's 2nd char, i'll keep just Sim thank you

 

Idea of fire herald for Gill is cool, but up to this point is just fanfiction of we as fans lol

Would not have any particular request for it, unless they want to rip-off V.Rosso, then is best char ever lmao

We don't even know if we will see Gill at all in SF6, possible they keep him unplayable on distant background

 

Pretty obvious IF Bosch ever makes it to main cast, will have his own moveset

Question is if will be a martial art of his own, or will link hard to WT and his status of CC's rival, and have a patchwork style combining many different martial arts

Edited May 16, 2023 by CESTUS III

[Hawkingbird]

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

Ok but should Bosch take the place of one of these guys to fill the southeast Asia quota?

 

Fei Long

Yun

Yang

Adon

I don't see why we have to lose any of them to get Bosch. 

[Daemos]

51 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I don't see why we have to lose any of them to get Bosch. 

I think that greatly depends on several factors:

 

1- Are seasons less than 6 characters?

2- Will Bosch play like nothing before him (Ed and Kolin for example both introduced series firsts, and have a very distinct playstyle)?

If the answer to either or both of those is a 'no' then I would hate if Bosch takes the spot from an older character. Especially in the next season or two.

But more specifically, SF has a lot of characters from Asia, many of them very young, both male and female. If Capcom is trying for a variety of nationalities and representation, then Bosch is competing with these characters for 2 years of resources/development and a limited spot in a character pass. Like the Bosch pitch has to be THAT good IMO, because everything we've seen so far is average and the rest is imagined potential based on the bits of info we gathered. There is no guarantee that the Bosch in your head is going to be realized and be better than many of these established characters.

 

Personally speaking, I'm fine with never seeing Yun or Yang again, unless they make reinvent them into an older single tag character (Like Noob-Smoke). I don't think we'll be seeing them anytime soon.

One thing that Bosch has going for him potentially is Capcom already spent resources thinking about him as a fighter and developing him to an extent. They've also spent resources on a VA and gave him air time in WTM. This is good sign for the character.


 

Edited May 16, 2023 by Daemos

[CESTUS III]

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

I think that greatly depends on several factors:

 

1- Are seasons less than 6 characters?

2- Will Bosch play like nothing before him (Ed and Kolin for example both introduced series firsts, and have a very distinct playstyle)?

If the answer to either or both of those is a 'no' then I would hate if Bosch takes the spot from an older character. Especially in the next season or two.

 

I should start with i don't believe there's any limit that will force them on the retarded number of 4 each season

Sorry i don't buy some WT extra stuff will be that immense game changer, when there are money all can be done

Sure, i believe SF6 costed them LOT of money, and that before invest big on DLC they want see it returns... wich surely will be the case, SF6 is going to be a financial success, no doubt

People's hype is there and they seem to have all majory review platforms in their pockets, even reviewers that seem to barely understand SF, understood suck SF6 dick is the trendy thing to do this month

I expect and hope they will be willing to support SF6 with ambition, and they will see their effort awarded through DLC years too

 

 

Returning to Bosch

 

Tbh his chara design alone if supported even by a classic type of moveset/archetype(wich does'nt deny it can be a cool moveset, just would not be "innovative"... Ed's was innovative and i hated it despite liking the char lol) already put him in a spot where i would prefer him over bunch of possible returning characters

 

Surely would not like at end of game life cycle if i never get a Muay Thai or pure Boxing rep but i get Bosch... even if there i should question Capcom's shitty priorities for SF rather than accuse (probably being wrong) specifically Bosch to have stolen their slot, because it's possible these missing chars would not have made it regardless of Bosch lol

 

Of course neither me nor you can imagine today what an hypothetic playable Bosch would be like, if great or crap (we can just argue over chara design, that imho is better than some already eating SF6 slots), i'm just saying in SF history we already got our fair share of crap  and older returning char is'nt automatically better than Bosch (given that we should learn first what he's like), would go case by case

 

A possible positive scenario could be that hint of red hair (combined with some things we already seen in WT demo) may mean as our friend but also our nemesis he can fall on the dark side to seek strenght (even having maybe noble purposes), so SnH or similar red ki crap like that

That could make Capcom (who hopefully will not try that Evil Ryu/Kage bullshit) to use him as the slot to cater edgy crap fanbase

 

Would be bittersweet "victory" as i would obviously prefer Bosch to be a normal cool char over red ki "cool" retardness, but if save a slot from being used for EvilRyuKageViolentKen crap, Bosch's half sacrifice would be already heroic 😄

At least would have his unique non derivative design and fight style, wich would be already a giant step compared to crap capcom served us in the past lmao

Would do a similar job to Necalli (hopefully with better treatment) to some extent

 

Of course even better scenario would be see Bosch being just a cool fighter/martial artist, with ethnic unique chara design going for him and a fight style that wink hard at Pencak Silat some existing martial art, all while somehow being SE Asia rep like Rashid was for arab world in SFV

 

This would put him above SO many old characters (at risk of return) that's not even fun 😄

[Dragonfave723]

19 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

Is there any info about his nationality yet? 

 

Bosch looks like a southeast asian character from his eyes and skin color. 

 

He can looks like filipino character even he isn't supposed to be and he isnt a filipino. He can also be a malaysian, hawian and indonesian character.

The Street Fighter JP twitter account posted a brief clip of Fighters Club back in late April. All the club banners shown so far in tweets and showcase has been of the playable characters. All but one, the Japanese tweet had a banner of Bosch. This shot below appeared in the Japanese showcase,  which basically confirms that Bosch is from Nayshall since that's the Nayshall flag behind him. I hope that helps. 

[Daemos]

Bosch is a JP plant from the Nashallese rebels meant to spy on the player and ensure he/she never get in the way of his plan!

[Darc_Requiem]

11 hours ago, Daemos said:

Gill’s fire herald who is from sub-saharan Africa (not light skinned like Elena).

Hey I've posted that Capcom can use my characters. I've already did all the leg work for them....

[CESTUS III]

5 hours ago, Dragonfave723 said:

The Street Fighter JP twitter account posted a brief clip of Fighters Club back in late April. All the club banners shown so far in tweets and showcase has been of the playable characters. All but one, the Japanese tweet had a banner of Bosch. This shot below appeared in the Japanese showcase,  which basically confirms that Bosch is from Nayshall since that's the Nayshall flag behind him. I hope that helps. 

Cool, thanks 👍

 

Interesting see him get further special treatment... i know how easy it'd to get hyped up and burnt by unrealistic expectation lol, but would be awesome if we get Bosch as suprise playable char at the end of vanilla WT

Like "defeat Bosch to unlock him"

 

Ok not going happen lol 😄

 

First time i see the Nayshall flag too, can't see it clearly but yellow one is supposed to be a dragon?

May hint the dragon and cerulean cloth thing

 

I checked flags in the RL area

May be totally random but BHUTAN (close to Nepal and Tibet, where we thought Nayshall to be) have dragon in their flag

 

did some more digging, found very small detail

 

This girl in traditional Bhutan clothes have same pattern of Bosch on the left shoulder stripe, they may have took inspiration from Buthan's culture too?

And the necklace of this one remind a bit red and azure spheres one of Bosch

Bhutan monk

 

May be nothing or may be something 😄

Edited May 16, 2023 by CESTUS III

[Dragonfave723]

@CESTUS IIINayshall flag

[CESTUS III]

Another small detail, maybe irrelevant but still
Nayshall King on the chest have a round decoration

Spoiler

 

 

that as shape remind the actual emblem of the King of Bhutan (the "Dragon King") for the external flower like side

Spoiler

and the "wheel" in the inner part of same emblem remind another symbol related to the King

Spoiler

Last the geometric decoration on the belly, i think remind this symbol

Spoiler

 

 

actually seems very same symbol, but the one Udon comic one have a 90° rotation

Essentially the two "single squares" point left&right rather than up&down

 

Tbh have likely a meaning that i don't know, i just recognizing is very same symbol lol

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by CESTUS III

[Daemos]

Maybe Bosch is the true successor of the Nayshallese crown and he’ll defeat JP using ancient green energy he conveniently inherited from some mountain tribe he’s descended from.

 

I like the attention to detail Capcom has gone to to create this new nation only to not piss off the Chinsse. 

 

Now I wonder if they will create a real European city that has the greatest hits of Europe. Probably a German-wannabe so they could pull the Neo-Shadaloo B plot.

[CESTUS III]

I think this is going to be easier for the eye rather than have to open multiple spoilers, i realized post was bit uneasy lol

Here in the spoiler

Spoiler

 

52 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Maybe Bosch is the true successor of the Nayshallese crown and he’ll defeat JP using ancient green energy he conveniently inherited from some mountain tribe he’s descended from.

 

But is'nt Ken getting the holy cloth a foreshadowing of him being the champion of Nayshall (funny the young king insist telling to Ken "you're still a Champion", maybe using the ancient meaning of the word)?

 

But could be misleading on purpose

 

On other side i've kinda hard time understand to wich extent our avatar role (and Bosch with it, since seems strictly related) will be involved in the BIG stuff, like if we will play a protagonist/hero role (V.Rosso saving the world feels about right lol) or if we will play a support/viewer pov with an actual SF char like Ken will take on the final battle

 

Or maybe we will do both, SFA dramatic battle style?

we already know SF6 system allow it

 

This way canon wise we will still have an official SF char doing it together with our CC, and canon story wise we will just roll with "Ken was'nt alone, was helped by an ally" making the identity of this helper relatively secondary (as should be, since everybody will have different shit as CC)

 

Another possibility could be our CC and Bosch going dramatic battle vs the big boss, but Ken finish the fight getting the spotlight lol, i would be ok with it

 

52 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Maybe Bosch is the true successor of the Nayshallese crown and he’ll defeat JP using ancient green energy he conveniently inherited from some mountain tribe he’s descended from.

 

I like the attention to detail Capcom has gone to to create this new nation only to not piss off the Chinsse. 

 

Now I wonder if they will create a real European city that has the greatest hits of Europe. Probably a German-wannabe so they could pull the Neo-Shadaloo B plot.

Lol i expect to be like in Lupin anime episodes where there was like 99 made up "small kingdom/state" all around Europe, sometimes having traits of France-Germany mix, sometimes France-Italy etc

 

Tbh i hope rather than a single area "Europe" will work as an hub that connect bunch of small areas with a different nation theme each

Example i would like visit Palazzo Mistero, but we will have to go to Italy for that, it can't be placed in a generic "nation"

Same for Claw's spanish mansion, Manon and Remy's France etc

 

Sure have to admit they could make that for whatever reason lot of the euro chars gathered in the same -made up- city though, would not be much different to MC will be shoehorned scenario for lot of characters that traditionally did'nt had much to do with MC (example Ken), but would steal us a lot of the fun of explore SF world

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by CESTUS III

[Hawkingbird]

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

Maybe Bosch is the true successor of the Nayshallese crown and he’ll defeat JP using ancient green energy he conveniently inherited from some mountain tribe he’s descended from.

 

I like the attention to detail Capcom has gone to to create this new nation only to not piss off the Chinsse. 

 

Now I wonder if they will create a real European city that has the greatest hits of Europe. Probably a German-wannabe so they could pull the Neo-Shadaloo B plot.

Nayshall is a newly established country isn't it? The crown would be fresh. What would Bosch claim to the crown be?

[Lord_Vega]

45 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

Nayshall is a newly established country isn't it? The crown would be fresh. What would Bosch claim to the crown be?

That was pretty confusing in SF6 Vol 1. JP and Ken mentions that Nayshall is a newly stablished nation, however.,.. it has kings since lengendary times?

Maybe it was a colony of sorts and only recently freed itself?

 

 

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

Nayshall is a newly established country isn't it? The crown would be fresh. What would Bosch claim to the crown be?

Nayshall may be new in terms of being internationally recognized as political entity, but according to JP words the kingdom tradition with all the throne succession talk goes back to "ancient times"

Spoiler

Plus they have the whole legends about heroes, dragons and magic shit, kind of folklore you imagine going back of centuries

Is mentioned as "the age of legends"
 

Spoiler

without post more pics, later they mention also the original tradition was members of royal family fighting in an ancient arena for throne succession

 

My guess is Nayshall just started in recent times  opening to rest of the world, trying to astart dapt to modern standards of nations

[DarthEnderX]

6 hours ago, Daemos said:

I like the attention to detail Capcom has gone to to create this new nation only to not piss off the Chinsse.

The whole SF world should be fictional.  Like Red Earth.  Everything is basically based on a real place, but it's not actually that place.  😛

[Daemos]

Well fhat’s a given but some people and possibly governments cannot take the hint so Capcom is improvising with Nayshall and whatever country Kolin is from.

[Miðgarðsorm]

11 hours ago, Dragonfave723 said:

@CESTUS IIINayshall flag

The theme is the same of the old Imperial Chinese flag of the Qing dynasty, where the dragon tries to eat the Sun.

 

 

12 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Nayshall King on the chest have a round decoration

It's the Dharmachakra, as I said some time ago. Common Buddhist symbology, not exclusive to Bhutan, as is the Śrīvatsa, the endless knot, which is one of the Aṣṭamaṅgala, the eight auspicious signs.

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, Miðgarðsorm said:

The theme is the same of the old Imperial Chinese flag of the Qing dynasty, where the dragon tries to eat the Sun.

 

It's the Dharmachakra, as I said some time ago. Common Buddhist symbology, not exclusive to Bhutan, as is the Śrīvatsa, the endless knot, which is one of the Aṣṭamaṅgala, the eight auspicious signs.

Thanks 👍

 

Have you any idea on why they gone for Bosch as name?

I thought about it being dutch linking to Indonesia, but end up "Bosch" exist in catalan too 😄

Plus if he's from Nayshall it brings him to a very different area, even if ever Asia

 

Is possible that have no national/cultural hint, and they just picked it because it wink at another Capcom game (kinda like was for Balrog -> Strider)?

 

In Breath of Fire there's a Bosch, who's very different lol

BUT seems to share some traits and role with SF6 one, there are some interessing parallels watching what we seen in WT demo and the comic

 

Quote

"Bosch is at first one of the allies, but later becomes one of the principal antagonists throughout the game. "

 

Red part is SF6 one role too, and the follow up feels kinda foreshadowed by Bosh himself, who tells Luke he doubts they (Bosch and CC) could be friends if they both seek strenght

Quote

 

"Bosch is arrogant, selfish, cruel, and desperately seeks approval, stemming from his unorthodox childhood and his overbearing father. Bosch lacks the strength of will to simply wait and earn his recognition, instead he is constantly trying to find a shortcut to power.

His defeats at the hands of Ryu greatly injure his pride and eventually leads to an obsession with killing Ryu. His obsession grows so strong he grafts the arm of Cheytre on to himself and allows the Dragon to consume and take over his body in hopes of defeating Ryu"

 

 

First part i don't think fit, Bosch to me seems just to have REALLY need to reach that power fast, probably because he have something to do (in Nayshall?)

Seems friendly when Luke persuade him hostile rivalry is not necessary

 

But the red about will of get power fast seems something SF6 one have too, WT demo show how he seems frustrated to not making progress fast enough

 

Blue one is still not happened (first clash being a draw and Bosch don't holding any grudge on CC), but i can easily see it happen at some point if they clash again and Bosch get surpassed by our CC

 

The yellow part is interesting to me, as the comic hint JP may end up be the "dragon" Ken may face if his arc will somehow mirror Nayshall legends

And we know JP is a Psycho Power user and he's very manipulative

 

I guess if Capcom is making any parallel, we may have the theory that is possible

CC and Bosch stay friends for first WT part

v

CC defeat Bosch in a fight, wich feed Bosch negative emotions... by his own words he can't imagine himself keep be friend with other guy (CC) if/when one surpass the other "we know we will not be friends after that"

v

He get corrupted by JP (the dragon) who offer him his help to quickly grow in power and surpass our CC

Bosch being a sore loser and being filled with negative emotions may be easy game for JP's Psycho Power... i'm thinking kinda like Sagat starting to working for Bison after his defeat in SF1

Or also how Adon was looking for SnH because he too was butthurt over SF1 events

 

 

 

PS: would be kinda sad because i will have to let go the last minimal hope of Bosch->dutch->indonesia->Pencak Silat 😆

But guess that ship sank as soon @bakfromonconfirmed him to be from Nayshall lol

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by CESTUS III

[Miðgarðsorm]

33 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

But guess that ship sank as soon @bakfromonconfirmed him to be from Nayshall lol

May I remind you that Elena practices capoeira in KENYA? 😛 A martial art is not necessarily bound to its country of origin. We already have Manon, and jūdō didn't originate in France...

 

49 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

Is possible that have no national/cultural hint, and they just picked it because it wink at another Capcom game (kinda like was for Balrog -> Strider)?

I think that's the case.

[Shakunetsu]

8 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

The whole SF world should be fictional.  Like Red Earth.  Everything is basically based on a real place, but it's not actually that place.  😛

Thats should been the best thing to do when they had a chance

[mykka]

On 5/15/2023 at 12:17 AM, Miðgarðsorm said:

You remember well. The fourth one from here:

Copypasted from the old forum:

1. Rejected characters presentation
   We present the rejected characters who weren’t ultimately accepted in the game. A whole array of full-fledged personalities!
2. Indian superstar
3. Shin is an Indian fighter who also can dance and sing. He’s a super popular actor, who stars in over than 100 movies per year! His story revolves around his matches against other fighters from all around the world. His dream is to star in a movie alongside Fei Long. He’s obsessed with white clothes and socks. His fighting style is showy just like an action movie, and he uses various objects like sticks, clothes, hangers and even bikes.
4. Malaysian woman
5. A woman fighter from Malaysia. A tomboy who regularly bests men and loves to fight. In her past, she fought against a Malaysian tiger who exceeded 3 metres, and got huge scars in the left upper part of her body; nonetheless, she discovered the thrill and excitement to fight against a strong living being, her joy of life. She’s a survivalist who spends the majority of the year living in the forest. She fights using silat.¹
6. A sand giant
7. A girl who controls rocks and sand using a mysterious power who resembles Soul Power. Her name and origin are unknown, and her whole existence is shrouded in mystery. When she fights, she summons a sand giant; she then sits on its head, and moves freely in that space.² Giant’s attacks are extremely powerful, and it can throw big boulders at the opponent. When the giant sustains damage, its body quickly restores itself.
8. Alaskan huntress
9. WHACK WHACK
10. A girl who lives in the Alaskan tundra, a master huntress. Despite her appearance, she possesses an inhuman strength, and is capable to freely hurl and throw even big men. A wild rumor circulating between street fighters says that BWA superstar Kimala once challenged her, and was soundly beaten. Her age is unspecified (and she herself doesn’t know for sure). She basically thinks that fighting = living = eating, and consequently fights against strong opponents, thanking the land and all the living beings. She lives with her father and 5 brothers, all hunters like her.³
11. The fighting cuisine researcher
12. A fighting cuisine researcher. She’s a wild lady who kills barehanded all the animals whom she then cooks. She can make her opponents faint with her strong hook. When she was a little girl, she was attacked by a giant bear, and lives to overcome the fear she felt then. She maintains a public blog about her life, and plans to publish a book by the end of the year. Contrarily to El Fuerte’s, her cooking skills are actually good.
13. Buongiorno⁴ (the name of her team?)
14. An Italian girl. She grew up watching anime and reading manga, and became obsessed with the (wrong) Japanese culture. Her hobby is cosplaying, and she produces all her clothes by herself. She believes she can do anything with her fighting spirit.⁵ She actually can use Soul Power; although she herself doesn’t understand well the true nature of her powers and believes that ki is the materialisation of her fighting spirit, she has been tutored by Rose. Her true name is Margherita, but it’s commonly shortened into Rita.

¹ So silat was in the cards… Just take Yayan Ruhian and put him in SF, Capcom!
² It’s not so visible in the image, but she has a cat near her. Ah, the good old Studio Ghibli influence over fighting games… One could write an entire essay about it.
³ She seems just like a young Son Goku, just with a living family around her…
⁴ Italian “Good morning”. I’ve already translated all the writings on her costume.
⁵ She sounds a lot like Italian cosplayer and talent Yuriko Tiger, very famous in Japan. Even Margherita’s incitement catchphrase sounds like hers.

 

I believe Capcom not that long ago posted on Facebook an imagine of that italian fighter, Rita. I believe she later developed into what would become Menat

[mykka]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:55 PM, Lord_Vega said:

 

I don't think that's a good idea. It will become a wiki. I remember there was a bug a few years ago and the file became open for everyone to edit. I remember finding that Juli was meant to be Noembelu on the AAC text of Juli (or Hawk, don't remember). I asked my old friend to check on it and she said that it wasn't on the original jpn text. Who knows what else got changed and I dunno if it was there in the first place.

 

 

Are you talking about Alpha 3?

 

From what I remember, Noembelu was supposed to be T-Hawk's sub-boss, and Aprile was meant to be Rose's sub-boss

[Daemos]

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2023/may/17/sf6-metro-city-goof-country/
 

don’t you love it when news sites and influencers plunder our discussions for content and never take the time to credit us or even Megashock?

[CESTUS III]

43 minutes ago, Miðgarðsorm said:

May I remind you that Elena practices capoeira in KENYA? 😛 A martial art is not necessarily bound to its country of origin. We already have Manon, and jūdō didn't originate in France...

Yeah but with Elena i can still see a circle somehow closing from their perspective, Capoeira "ancestor" was an african martial art with kicks, sweeps and handstands (not Kenya though), so i can see them try sell Africa tribe still having similar style to what later became Capoeira in Brazil

Would be not accurate, and anyway make no sense call it Capoeira but at least i can imagine on what they worked on to end up with Elena

 

Manon is there for the strong love France have for Judo (and likely to try avoid add one more japanese), as you surely remember we almost had france-judo thing already in SF4 with very first Abel concept (the girly-looking boy), then we got Abel doing Sambo even if not listed

 

I believe for Bosch if Indonesia is out of the menu, i have no hope for Silat 🥲

I think he will just end up with a generic martial art made of stuff he learned through his WT trip combined  maybe with something else he knew already before meet Luke

 

My best chance at this point i think is if they remember the SFV Malaysian girl of your post 😄

After all i think some of SF6 newcomers likely come from old SFV concepts

 

Jamie -> SFV Gen's disciple sketch and SF4 King Cobra's "Breaking-fu"

Lily ->  SFV super strong little girl from an Alaska (iirc) tribe able to throw even big men

Marisa -> SFV multiple concepts of italian girl with red hair

 

Maybe they will remember Silat girl too 😄

 

Her having the scars from tiger even made me get hyped for a possible rivalry with Sagat lol

 

Think the awesomeness if in SFV we got her instead Falke (or Lucia?)

 

  

15 minutes ago, mykka said:

I believe Capcom not that long ago posted on Facebook an imagine of that italian fighter, Rita. I believe she later developed into what would become Menat

yes, and we even got 3 italian girls with red hair iirc: a waitress, an otaku vandal and a magician

 

Very last one i think is where things left Italy and evolved into Egypt/Menat

 

But only thing the 3 concepts had in common was being italian girls with red hair, we end up in SF6 with an italian girl with red hair, even if her being giant is definitely new thing 😄

Edited May 17, 2023 by CESTUS III

[ToreyBeans]

2 hours ago, Daemos said:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2023/may/17/sf6-metro-city-goof-country/
 

don’t you love it when news sites and influencers plunder our discussions for content and never take the time to credit us or even Megashock?

Yup pretty annoying... They recently had a piece about the comparisons on the character select screens over the years and completely bit off my thoughts on them. Fine, but it's a bit slimy to not give any credit.... I mean we should ideally be one big happy FGC family, but when stuff like this happens it's definitely a bitter kinda thing.

[Daemos]

So what do you guys think Capcom's angle regarding JP and Bison going to be? Every PP and even SP user in the canon is a descendant of Bison. Rose was his student, so Menat is an extension of that relationship in a way.

Ed, Falke, and Decapre are clones. Imbued genetically and through technology with his power.

Everyone in ASF was receiving PP through tech that Bison created and is ultimately in control of, sort of like a hivemind of PP.

So what would be a reasonable or satisfying explanation to the sudden emergence of this seemingly old PP user?

1- JP is one of the 2 peers that trained alongside Bison  in the art of SP/PP before Bison killed their master. 

This one makes sense and has some loose canon framework. It doesn't explain why/how JP was alive all this time. What I don't like about this story is its parallels with Goutetsu/Akuma/Gouken.

 

2- JP is one of the students that trained under Bison alongside Rose before Bison discarded them to pursue his ambitions.

This one has a canonical basis as well and it will help tie loose ends regarding Bison/Rose. It also explains why Bison ignored JP all this time. Him and Rose are just fodder and unworthy of his attention. What I like about this is that it does not demystify the villain origin story at all like #1. In fact it deepens it.

More importantly, #2 fits thematically with SF6 where all the new characters are an "apprentice-type" of some kind for an older character.

3- JP worked with Bison in Shadaloo or as an affiliated company, and picked up where Bison left off after the vacuum he left behind.

 

Too much like Seth, which is why I think Capcom will go with this.

 

4- JP is completely unrelated to Bison and he simply witnessed things unfold from the sidelines on the world stage. He learned PP through means unrelated to Bison.

 

This is a possibility, but I think the way he called Cammy a "doll" makes me think he had a more direct relationship.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Daemos

[Lord_Vega]

7 hours ago, mykka said:

 

Are you talking about Alpha 3?

 

From what I remember, Noembelu was supposed to be T-Hawk's sub-boss, and Aprile was meant to be Rose's sub-boss

That would be great, however, there's no canon evidence of it AFAIK.

 

On 5/5/2023 at 3:03 PM, BornWinner said:

Context? This is the first I’m hearing of that.

Dan

In his SFV story, he mentions about winning the championship tournament. However the japanese text mentions him participating of it, not winning.

 

Rose

Rose mentions that she was the one who stopped Shadaloo and Vega/Bison. In the jpn text she doesn't say that. She just mentions that they were gone.

[DarthEnderX]

8 hours ago, Daemos said:

So what would be a reasonable or satisfying explanation to the sudden emergence of this seemingly old PP user?

He's keeping Phantom Bison inside the little stone on the top of his cane.

[CESTUS III]

8 hours ago, Daemos said:

So what do you guys think Capcom's angle regarding JP and Bison going to of PP.

1- JP is one of the 2 peers that trained alongside Bison  in the art of SP/PP before Bison killed their master.

 

4- JP is completely unrelated to Bison and he simply witnessed things unfold from the sidelines on the world stage. He learned PP through means unrelated to Bison.

☝️

 

This, either being one of the others students or him being somehow independent figure who learned to master PP in his own way

 

Anything that make him a subproduct or worse a subordinate of Bison would be pretty sad, would feel Capcom being unwilling to bet big on new chars

 

9 hours ago, Daemos said:

This one makes sense and has some loose canon framework. It doesn't explain why/how JP was alive all this time. What I don't like about this story is its parallels with Goutetsu/Akuma/Gouken.

This one has a canonical basis as well and it will help tie loose ends regarding Bison/Rose. It also explains why Bison ignored JP all this time. Him and Rose are just fodder and unworthy of his attention. What I like about this is that it does not demystify the villain origin story at all like #1. In fact it deepens it.

More importantly, #2 fits thematically with SF6 where all the new characters are an "apprentice-type" of some kind for an older character.

 

Red parts seems to express the desire of a plot that automatically put JP in a position of inferiority compared to Bison, wich would feel pretty meh to me lol

 

I for one hope they will show JP to be overall at least as capable of Bison, with fields of PP where's even more effective/knowledgeable (less in others) and that if he's still alive is not because some kind of Bison courtesy, but because Bison could do fucking nothing about it (or if he tried, he failed)

 

One way i would like JP portrayed is as a scholar/researcher who developed through years his own opinion on wich method to use PP is best and showing new powers that can come from it, like how his PP seems to have SP-like effect of grant long life/health (even if to inferior levels to Rose, who still look young), his ability to solidify/crystallize PP or these hands/figures he can generate

 

As why we never hear of him before, simple explanation may be that given his approach to things he prefer blend with society rather than go at war with it, and that his achievements came from manipulation rather by force/destruction

 

[Daemos]

3 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Red parts seems to express the desire of a plot that automatically put JP in a position of inferiority compared to Bison, wich would feel pretty meh to me lol

 

Not sure why you felt the need to point out my "desires". My position is that JP is by default inferior to Bison and he has to prove otherwise. This position isn't necessarily wishful thinking, it is a rational one based on the status quo established by modern Capcom since SF4 that every villain associated with Bison since has been ultimately inferior to him - Seth, Juri, FANG, Necalli. It's also based on everything we do know about Bison and PP, and not on what we "imagine" JP is like given that we know almost nothing about him.

 

I could you argue that it is your desire to go against precedence and make JP an exception to the rule. To that I say good luck to JP.

I think the mere fact that JP has not been hailed as the new big bad by Capcom shows you that he is probably not the main villain, albeit a really powerful and badass one.

 

I still think G is the real villain in SF6 and JP is likely his public-facing subordinate as the head of Terra NP.

[YagamiFire]

Okay, fellas, I gotta say...

 

As a fan of SF and MK both...

 

We are eating well on this side of the fence while MK12(1)  just showed me NOTHING impressive or exciting.

[Hawkingbird]

MK12 has a cinematic trailer. Those are never impressive. I will temper expectations until we get something with some meat on its bones

[CESTUS III]

47 minutes ago, Daemos said:

 

Not sure why you felt the need to point out my "desires". My position is that JP is by default inferior to Bison and he has to prove otherwise. This position isn't necessarily wishful thinking, it is a rational one based on the status quo established by modern Capcom since SF4 that every villain associated with Bison since has been ultimately inferior to him - Seth, Juri, FANG, Necalli. It's also based on everything we do know about Bison and PP, and not on what we "imagine" JP is like given that we know almost nothing about him.

Canon wise i think is not smart consider a new likely-boss character inferior as  the default state of things (and that he should proof otherwise lol), i think if a character's power is unknown... is unknown till we know lol

 

I mean i surely would not bet 5cents on JP being able to surpass Akuma because literally their whole retarded marketing of the char is "Akuma is stronk!" and the gimmick to keep milk him is preserve his status for the final battle with Ryu (wonder when they will find the balls to make it happen, i pray SF6 but i doubt)

 

But JP being more or less equal to Bison would not surprise me much, we know bunch of chars can put Bison on his knee and i guess we could make a solid theory for some others (specially if we talk not cheat-machine version of the char lol)

 

Of these you mentioned Seth was the only true Boss figure, who was indeed inferior to Bison (would say by design, being a subproduct of him) plus being written like crap

Necalli could have been a Boss, but was chosen to do otherwise with him and written like crap too

Juri and FANG are your typical secondary villains, would not count them as something with same expectations we can have for JP (as the likely vanilla Boss)

 

As a general rule sure, capcom loves to preserve their cashcows status at expense of newcomers, i think we covered that not long ago lol

But does'nt mean take it as default state of things as if there's zero chances in their slip one day they may find a pair of balls, just legit suspect they MAY fall in their usual narrative (suspect that i share, for what's worth)

 

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

I could you argue that it is your desire to go against precedence and make JP an exception to the rule. To that I say good luck to JP.

You don't need to argue, i've been pretty transparent at say that imho SF when we talk about villains and bosses should break free from lack-of-balls syndrome and return to write new stuff with ambition rather than pick ever the safe road of keep SF world ceiling low in order to preserve the status of characters that make them money lol

 

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

I think the mere fact that JP has not been hailed as the new big bad by Capcom shows you that he is probably not the main villain, albeit a really powerful and badass one.

I think all depend on how they will handle the story evolving through DLC seasons

 

If big things story wise mostly stops at vanilla version, he have a chance to be the big bad* of SF6 story

 

If story truly evolve through years, somebody else is likely join SF6 to sit on the villain throne, as JP will likely be (my guess, "may be" would be more correct)  defeated at the end of the vanilla story arc... we will see

 

A good start would be understand if the red and blue in Nayshall stage hint that Gill/Secret Society is already there outplaying JP's projects, or is just coincidence

 

 

*given that by the time of S1 i guess canon wise we will already have a more powerful villain in Akuma. Due the logic that if Ken is going to handle JP, Ryu who's one step ahead will probably have in the usual greater enemy Akuma his rival (and maybe they will not even have their fight lol)

 

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

I still think G is the real villain in SF6 and JP is likely his public-facing subordinate as the head of Terra NP.

I would not oppose G being SF6 follow up after the possible vanilla fall tbh

We will be already lucky if in late S1 they don't use an already defeated (so expendable) JP as one more stepstone for Akuma-stronk retarded marketing

 

Would say that due their shit habits they already burnt G's image a bit in SFV, after Gill ran through him and also Rose put him on his ass, but the G thing definitely needs follow up

 

Narrative wise two imho good options they have are

 

-G drop the silly guy mask and he's far more dangerous than what he shown us in SFV, making his Ls to Gill and Rose not-meaningful

 

-G works for somebody who's an higher threat than himself, making him the #2 of an actual new powerful Boss

[Daemos]

29 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

-G works for somebody who's an higher threat than himself, making him the #2 of an actual new powerful Boss

 

I can also get behind this. An "X" or "A", true leader of the alphabets (includes JP). 

I still think G is salvageable even if they treated his character as somewhat of a joke, they can play it as if it's a con and he has a true darker form.

[CESTUS III]

16 minutes ago, Daemos said:

 

I can also get behind this. An "X" or "A", true leader of the alphabets (includes JP). 

I still think G is salvageable even if they treated his character as somewhat of a joke, they can play it as if it's a con and he has a true darker form.

Tbh i'm not sure JP would be necessary part of the alphabet thing, specially because his char may wink at JP Morgan

 

But Q and G being linked (with visual hints too) is like 99,9% sure, would like to know more about that

 

 

[Daemos]

He's about the same height as G/Q, has a name consisting on alphabets, and wears a hat and a trench coat on the side. He's also head of an NGO called Terra Network Partners - Friends/Affiliates of Earth.

He also uses Psycho Power to manifest rock-like spires which is kinda Earthy.

I don't think this is all a coincidence. Capcom are usually are very transparent. He can be both a wink at JP and an actor for G's agenda.

This also means that the Bison connection may just be a red herring or at least irrelevant to the character's goals.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Daemos

[ShockDingo]

42 minutes ago, Daemos said:

I still think G is salvageable even if they treated his character as somewhat of a joke, they can play it as if it's a con and he has a true darker form.

Despite there being so little info, everything I've researched in my vids points to this. He's obfuscating stupidity and injecting non=specific, universal  charm (he wants to win everyone over and tends to avoid divisive statements- he'll reject the notion of a god, but say we're all connected anyways. He'll say he's a leader, but to unite all of us rather than stand out as a king). His early views were nothing, but then Rashid fell for it, got beat up and it furthered his plans dramatically. The spectacle continued, but now "oh, he beat a fighting celebrity, maybe there's more to this guy!" More people are paying attention. One of which is Rose and Menat; Rose, who through the series has shown to have literal foresight can't fully read G for some reason, sends Menat to investigate and she too, while being not as experienced as Rose, cannot read G to the point that she gets beaten.

 

This song and dance continues, and if his arcade ending is to be believed, he starts travelling across the world, gaining even more success and having more people tuning in due to curiosity or genuine interest. He gets so notable, that Gill, who has been part of a society that's been secret to the world for 2,000 reveals himself on his stage, but this time beats G. He can't fully enjoy his victory as, G, who's been beaten doesn't seem worried or even embarrassed. Gill poses several questions after noting his power feels familiar, but is not part of the prophecy. G offers complete nonsense non-answers that seem to at least get at Gill - he seems slightly annoyed at his gibberish. G continues to do his thing, Rose and Oro note how impactful his power is but have 2 different POVs on whether it's a force of nature or evil. Rose tracks him to India, is yet again a person who defeats him, but again, he's not bothered or even hurt, then they share a vision of the end and he drops the folksy, weirdo act and seems to revel in the coming inevitability of the chaos, hinting that he knows more than he lets on and even directly confronting him face to face, Rose still doesn't know who or what he is. Whether or not Ring of Galaxy is canon, it proved one of my earliest theories that he has minions that share his look.

 

I distinguished the difference between G and Q's mask before, but G and his minions are well-dressed and have a hockey style mask and glowing purple eyes. It looks like they can remove it easily while Q, a plain dresser, is literally locked into his mask and has been canonically seen since SF2. To me, it says that the loyal followers get a mask for loyalty or ceremonial purposes, but Q did something heretical and had the freedom of choice removed and possibly escaped. I tend to view G as being an elite or the head of some secret organization and they're spreading chaos akin to a toku series where they're like Gorgom - created a monster, but he (Q) escaped and now fights them from a far. Since G's reveal trailer I've basically thought that him and Q are basically reenacting Kamen Rider black hah.

 

We've then got the art that shows him looking evil and all the "he's a boss" talk. As of SF6, he's still apparently around in public looking to recruit for something. All of this, to me, points that G is secretly a monster and bigger deal than we've seen and they're going towards that. The meta question is if they had more planned and SF5's chaos diverted that a bit or they decided he was a boss at the last minute. Either way, there's more to him even if the execution was flawed. I hope we don't have to wait too long to see him and Q again.

 

I do have higher hopes for Q now a days;  hehasn't appeared in anything major in years, but all of a sudden we get G's story costume & NPCs looking vaguely like him and then his mask, not G's version, is hidden through Neko drop 2 , we get Shadaloo CRI postings about him pointing at a connection with Viper, expansions on the roles of the CIA folks and he pops up in Teppen.

Edited May 18, 2023 by ShockDingo

[Daemos]

I don't think the Ring stages are canon, but they definitely point to the developer's mindset and thinking.

If the Earth is to be destroyed and reborn through disaster, what better place to oversee this than from space?

[CESTUS III]

18 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

This song and dance continues, and if his arcade ending is to be believed, he starts travelling across the world, gaining even more success and having more people tuning in due to curiosity or genuine interest. He gets so notable, that Gill, who has been part of a society that's been secret to the world for 2,000 reveals himself on his stage, but this time beats G.

Must be said Gill agenda and Secret Society traditions split

Gill does'nt show up because G forced him out the SS secret path, he found in G the chance to show up

 

23 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

He can't fully enjoy his victory as, G, who's been beaten doesn't seem worried or even embarrassed. Gill poses several questions after noting his power feels familiar, but is not part of the prophecy. G offers complete nonsense non-answers that seem to at least get at Gill - he seems slightly annoyed at his gibberish.

I think deal there is that Gill recognized a power VERY similar to what is being teached in Secret Society:

SS- use nature's elements, org based on greek area with strong ties with ancient greek culture

G- use nature's element, he call the earth Gaia, ancient greek myth of the Earth Goddess

 

38 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

Whether or not Ring of Galaxy is canon, it proved one of my earliest theories that he has minions that share his look.

Yeah we got artwork too

 

30 minutes ago, Daemos said:

I don't think the Ring stages are canon, but they definitely point to the developer's mindset and thinking.

If the Earth is to be destroyed and reborn through disaster, what better place to oversee this than from space?

Yeah, even if they are'nt canon these stages often reflect the style of the subject

 

Mad Gear Gang -> Metro City

Shadaloo -> place with big ass missiles and general Shadaloo style architecture/symbolism

Gill -> Coliseum here remind of course Rome rather than Ancient Greece, but the two cultures are so deeply linked and Gill himself got a roman armor costume. The statues inspired on real life greek ones (well, roman marble remake of the lost original bronze greek ones)

 

G getting space station feels too different from what we see from him to not suspect there's an hint there about what G is hiding lol

[DarthEnderX]

  

4 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

We are eating well on this side of the fence while MK12(1)  just showed me NOTHING impressive or exciting.

I mean, I think that story looks pretty cool.  But I didn't even play the one in MK11.  I just watched youtubers I like play through it.

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

I still think G is salvageable even if they treated his character as somewhat of a joke, they can play it as if it's a con and he has a true darker form.

G and Q will just be guys hanging out in JP's lair you can challenge.  Like poor Retsu.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by DarthEnderX

[Daemos]

1 hour ago, DarthEnderX said:

G and Q will just be guys hanging out in JP's lair you can challenge. 

I think there is possibility - an unfortunate one- that they may relegate Q to Retsu status and make him appear in WTM.

My guess is that G will show up same time as last game - during the Super SF6 season (S3) along with the WTM/Story expansion.

[ShockDingo]

3 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Gill does'nt show up because G forced him out the SS secret path, he found in G the chance to show up

Oh no, what I meant was that G's notoriety was so great that Gill found him useful to his plans instead of being just a clown. It's like if the Rock went on a Late Night TV show to reveal he's running for president. Didn't mean that G forced Gill out.

 

3 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

I think deal there is that Gill recognized a power VERY similar to what is being teached in Secret Society:

SS- use nature's elements, org based on greek area with strong ties with ancient greek culture

G- use nature's element, he call the earth Gaia, ancient greek myth of the Earth Goddess

Yup, makes sense. I get the feeling that G's true identity may be tied to an excommunicated member or the SS or he himself faked his death ages ago and is now up to something rivaling them.

 

1 hour ago, DarthEnderX said:

G and Q will just be guys hanging out in JP's lair you can challenge.  Like poor Retsu.

Hah, at this point, I'll take it. I just wanna see my mystery boys back and not only making cameos lol

 

4 hours ago, Daemos said:

I don't think the Ring stages are canon, but they definitely point to the developer's mindset and thinking.

If the Earth is to be destroyed and reborn through disaster, what better place to oversee this than from space?

Yeah, I can see it being, at the very least something in the dev's hearts if not totally canon.  We know that the uber rich like Karin can get a death satellite and if he partnered up with someone for some event, I can see something like this being given to him, though I feel that at the very base, they're showing that he indeed currently or will have a staff of followers that dress is his story alt mask.

[Daemos]

1 minute ago, ShockDingo said:

Yup, makes sense. I get the feeling that G's true identity may be tied to an excommunicated member or the SS or he himself faked his death ages ago and is now up to something rivaling them.

Well there is someone we haven't thought of...

 

 

Here Gill is referring to not his immediate predecessor, but to a predecessor from 2000 years ago. He's also referring to HIS interpretation of his predecessor's mission, because that predecessor likely meant or imagined something completely different to what Gill in his madness sees.

Capcom would not casually let Gill be reminded of G for no reason. There is a connection that should reveal itself if the G arc comes to fruition.

 

[Dracu]

The similarities between G and JP are too much for it to be mere coincidence. 

 

I think ultimately JP used a similar technique to G's absorbtion of the Earth's power to absorb Psycho Power for himself. Possibly from Ed or possibly simply from the corruption of the Earth itself following the Black Moon incident.

 

How they are related remains to be seen. Maybe they are members of the same organization, whatever those Terra Nova guys are.

 

I feel like there's some clues to them being the same person, but it feels unlikely due to the Q connection as well, since three playable characters being in the run for being the same person seems too far-fetched.

 

Considering G styles himself President of the Earth, he has a space hideout, Rose predicts the destruction of the world and now this whole Nayshall ordeal with the Terra Nova guys... everything seems connected.

 

Also, Gill's plan to get everyone on a remote island to save them from the prophecy's impending doom seems like a misrepresentation of what G/JP might be planning: exiling everyone in space while the Earth is destroyed. If they accept willingly they become the masked men and if they go rogue, Q-fy them.

 

Also, Gill misrepresented the propechy to think that Bison was the one to bring about the end of the world and tried to hurry up the process a little to make himself the saviour, but in truth, judging from Oro and Rose's stories in SFV it is "Bison's shadow" that will bring about the ultimate destruction. And what is this shadow? Psycho Power!

 

That still exists even after Bison's defeat in the Neo-Shadaloo guys. The perfect source for someone with a power harnessing ability like G (and JP?) to steal it from, especially since Ed and Falke are too weak to use it. The two might even give it, or at least a harmful excess of it, up willingly, to escape the Bison nightmares. Which is why there might be a connection between Ed and JP hinted at based on the owl symbol.

 

[ShockDingo]

Hot dang, interesting theory!

 

[Daemos]

@Dracu

Obviously the only one who can save us is Bison in season 2. How can Bison dominate the world if there is no world to begin with? These pesky alphabets are getting in the way of progress!

[DarthEnderX]

1 hour ago, Daemos said:

Here Gill is referring to not his immediate predecessor, but to a predecessor from 2000 years ago. He's also referring to HIS interpretation of his predecessor's mission, because that predecessor likely meant or imagined something completely different to what Gill in his madness sees.

I kind of assumed he was referencing Jesus there.  What with Gill believing he's the next savior of mankind.  And Jesus being a savior of mankind from 2000 years ago.