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The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

Darc_Requiem

By Darc_Requiem
in Fighting Game Discussion

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Lord_Vega said:

 I just love that stage. Seth's theme is pretty awesome too.

I had bizzarre change of view about it

Did'nt liked it much back then, but now that i've seen SFV doing Bison (one (Lair of Four Kings) all comical with pink ninjas and robots doing silly shit i thought many times "Seth one was better"

 

A Shadow Falls crumbling version without NPC was cool though

 

 

ASF on general got some nice stages we never got like Shadaloo rooftop, burning city and elevator

 

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mikros Level 2

mikros

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Posted
1 hour ago, ShockDingo said:

I'm overjoyed, Captain Commando toys are coming:

I've wanted to get some merch of the good Captain for ages, now I can! (Hopefully this is the first step in a slow resurrection of this IP)

Nice.  52Toys has been doing a great job with their BeastBox toys, so I'm sure these will be great. Can't say that I'm buying them for sure but it is nice news.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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2 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

I'm overjoyed, Captain Commando toys are coming:

 

I've wanted to get some merch of the good Captain for ages, now I can! (Hopefully this is the first step in a slow resurrection of this IP)

That's cool man. If you have UMvC3 on PC. You can download a Captain Commando mod. It's pretty good to. Granted it's him solo due to limitation but it is very impressive. 

 

 

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

I've wanted to get some merch of the good Captain for ages, now I can! (Hopefully this is the first step in a slow resurrection of this IP)

Reminds me DS and MVC line figure from toybiz. I still have Ryu and Demitri

 

Looks like  3.5 would be great to start a Marvel Vs Capcom Figure Collection. 

 

Many of do custom toys Capcom like because they paired it with Marvel Legends line.
 

ebXsfA1.png

 

By the way that picture was a custom made figures wayback 2012? by my friend Dodge which is also a co-admin of mine, we usually do exhibits yearly 


I hope someday there would be an official release for the OG final fight protagonist someday. 

Edited by Shakunetsu
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Chun-Li_Forever Level 13

Chun-Li_Forever

Posted
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  •  
    9 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

    When you don't know the lore and make a lore tier list.....

     

     

 

First of all, Chun-Li at the top of B-Tier feels gratifying but WAY too generous.

 

Other thoughts in regards to general placement

 

  • There should be an SS tier above S-Tier for those of God Powers like Oro, Rose, Oni, Gill

 

- Too High:

  • Seth
  • Gouken
  • Ryu
  • Zangief
  • Fei Long
  • Cody
  • Abigail
  • Necalli
  • Laura
  • Sean
  • Birdie
  • Rufus
  • Dan (Dan is F tier)

- Too Low:

  • Akuma
  • Evil Ryu
  • Gen
  • Dhalsim
  • G
  • Kolin
  • Vega
  • Karin
  • Nash
  • Rashid
  • Menat
  • Q
  • Yung
  • Yang
  • Sakura

 

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

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Posted

I don't really consider tiers anymore but rather divided in 3 layers or 4

 

Like keeping up the ambiguity of ranking I forgot the naming of category I made back then

 

Gouki beaten Goutetsu and Nash beaten Bison so there are no clear tiers

 

Like I said before it's about more of

 

Ingrid

Godlike Mortals and Masters - Dhalsim, Gouken, Goutetsu, Gill, Bison, Oro, Zeku, Rose 

2nd Generation - Ryu, Ken, Alex, Nash

Fighters and Apprentices - Birdie, Dan, Sean, Blanka

Generic Dudes - Metro city Thugs, Dolls

 

Since there is no such thing as clear auto beaten. Category is better than Tiers

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

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29 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

She's not a SF character. 

I just put her there in-case, I consider her a crossover or a meme character

 

In the category the generic guys cannot go toe to toe with those that are 3 layers above in a straight death match.

 

Viper  would be fitting in the generic but the tech and machinery can make her go toe to toe with the 2nd generation guys

 

Same with Juri with the Eye.  Doesn't really necessary mean to beat them but just can face them. Same with Akuma against Oni.

Edited by Shakunetsu
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BootyWarrior Level 8

BootyWarrior

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Only Chun-Li can spend her whole career losing and then end up on B-tier or higher on people's list. She's above Charlie Nash who in SFV, beat down Guile when he didn't know how to use his body properly, he also put up a better fight against M. Bison than Chun-Li ever could in her whole life and this is Nash who's weaker than when he was alive. Capcom even had Nash appear in Ryu's story to show that they're both nerfed from their powers, they even did the anime fist bump before ending the fight.

 

IMO It's hard to make power scaling lists for SF more than any other FG. There's too many spin-offs that people consume and consider canon, character bias is way too strong (looking at Ken, Final Fighters, Chun-Li and Cammy) and then there's too many Japanese only books that never got translated.

 

You never see this problem in Tekken or MK because the canon is easy to follow even for casual audiences.  I don't think Tekken has half the spin-offs SF has even with that netflix anime coming out this year.

Edited by BootyWarrior
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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1 hour ago, CESTUS III said:

 

{<jordan}

I don't even know where to start to fix this shit, there's so much absurd crap that would be literally easier rewrite it from zero 🤣

I hadn't taken a good look at the D Tier fam. Everyone in that Tier, sans Dan, should be ranked above Rufus. This list fam. This dude has Makoto in the same Tier as Dan. This has to be a joke man.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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Chun-Li_Forever Level 13

Chun-Li_Forever

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29 minutes ago, BootyWarrior said:

Only Chun-Li can spend her whole career losing and then end up on B-tier or higher on people's list. She's above Charlie Nash who in SFV, beat down Guile when he didn't know how to use his body properly, he also put up a better fight against M. Bison than Chun-Li ever could in her whole life and this is Nash who's weaker than when he was alive. Capcom even had Nash appear in Ryu's story to show that they're both nerfed from their powers, they even did the anime fist bump before ending the fight.

 

IMO It's hard to make power scaling lists for SF more than any other FG. There's too many spin-offs that people consume and consider canon, character bias is way too strong (looking at Ken, Final Fighters, Chun-Li and Cammy) and then there's too many Japanese only books that never got translated.

 

You never see this problem in Tekken or MK because the canon is easy to follow even for casual audiences.  I don't think Tekken has half the spin-offs SF has even with that netflix anime coming out this year.

 

So the guy's tier-list had me combing through Chun-Li's win/loss record according to the SF canon (because I have nothing better to do on a monday workday). In chronical order to the lore (including all games, retcons, OVAs, movies, story modes, Fight Your Rivals)

 

Street Fighter Alpha

  • Chun-Li vs M. Bison (Final Boss) - Result: LOSS
    • Even in Alpha, M. Bison is still leagues above a young, headstrong Chun-Li. Though M. Bison is brought to one knee as seen in Chun's Alpha 1 ending, M. Bison was clearly toying with her, knocking her out and into a hospital bed with one Psycho Power punch to her stomach
      latest?cb=20200722220549

Street Fighter Alpha 2

  • Chun-Li vs Gen (Mid Boss) - Result: DRAW
    • Since Gen and CHun-Li are each other's mid bosses respectively, then it could be safe to assume that they met up with each other before Chun-Li went off to find M. Bison. In a real fight, I believe Gen could easily defeat Chun-Li, but it is plausible that Gen held back some when Chun-Li tried to fight for information on her father from him. Either Chun-Li got the information needed, or realized that fighting against Gen wouldn't yield any favorable results, and resulted in both parting
  • Chun-Li vs M. Bison (Final Boss) - Result: DRAW
    • This time around, M. Bison acknowledges Chun-Li's strength, even though he was clearly holding back against her. M. Bison retreats instead of knocking out Chun-Li in this one. It's unknown with the details of the fight, but both emerge with no clear victor in this contenst.
  • EXTRA: Chun-Li vs Akuma (sub boss) - Result: Unknown
    • (Not 100% sure if canon, so I'm not adding it. But chun-Li can fight Akuma as a sub boss before fighting M. Bison)

Street Fighter Alpha 3

 

*Canonicity withstanding from the previous two Alpha games,

 

  • Chun-Li vs Birdie (Rival) - Result: WIN
    • Chun-Li beats Birdie and gets him to spill M. Bison's location
  • Chun-Li vs Cammy (Rival) - Result: WIN
    • I'll chalk this up as a win for Chun-Li because she was able to defeat Cammy and break M. Bison's pyscho power influence on her. That said, Cammy's Alpha ending in the SFV arcade mode shows Cammy knocking out Chun-Li. 
      http://www.game-art-hq.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SFVAE-Arcade-Ending-Cammy-SF-Alpha-Route-Art.jpg
  • Chun-Li vs Juil & Juni - Result: WIN
    • This fight transitions between her fight with Cammy and M. Bison, M. Bison sending her dolls to take care of Chun as she fights them off before fighting M. Bison
  • Chun-Li vs M. Bison - Result - DRAW
    • Chun-Li manages to hold her own, and almost goes into arrest him. But M. Bison doesn't go down easy. M. Bison retreats as Chun-Li takes care of the Shadaloo base. So while Chun-Li didn't get the one-on-one victory against M. Bison, she does shutdown M. Bison's base. Sidenote: more than one ending has M. Bison being blasted off by a laser, so even though Chun-Li does press the button that would vaporize M. Bison in her particular ending, I wouldn't count that as a "win" for Chun.
  • Guile vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: DRAW
    • No animosity between the two, just Chun-Li trying to stop Guile from interfering with Charlie's mission
  • Dan vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: LOSS
    • Probably the most embarrassing loss of Chun's career, and one of the reasons why I'm thankful Alpha 3 is canonically shaky. It's not that Chun-Li isn't at fault, she does pull the idiot card in assuming Dan was affiliated with Shadaloo. But Dan gets the best of her, and she even admits in her post-match dialogue against Dan  "How can I be beaten by such a pathetic style?!"
  • Sodom vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: DRAW (maybe win?)
    • I can't find any thing outside of the Rival Dialogue with this. Sodom want to convert Shadaloo's base into a Mad Gear spot. Chun-Li is investigating Shadaloo. They fight. Though it is on Sodom's side and you do have to beat Chun-Li to advance, Sodom does not end up with the base in his possession and Kamikazes in his end. To that end, Sodom didn't get what he was after while Chun-Li would resume investigating the Shadaloo base. So it could chalk up as a win for Chun. But since there is little I can find outside of this, I'll relegate it to a Draw or unknown.
  • Zangief vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: DRAW (maybe loss?)
    • Same with Sodom, there is nothing outside of the Rival Dialogue that gives us any information. Chun-Li urges Zangief to let Interpol handle Shadaloo, but Zangief proves he's worthy to fight Shadaloo, as he does contiinuing his arcade path. Both show no ill feelings in future games, this moment is never referenced. Either Zangief totally overpowers Chun into Submission, or Chun-Li acknowledges Zangief's strength to allow him to help against Shadaloo.

Street Fighter II

Chun's ending in this shows her praying to her father that she avenged his death. While not canonically clear on who won the SFII tournament outside of Akuma ending M. Bison's life with the Raging Demon), we can't assume that Chun-Li canonically defeated M. Bison in this one, since every SFII ending assumes the chosen character ended up winning the whole thing and beating M. Bison in the end. 

That said, there is one event that takes place POST-SFII that can be seen in the C. Viper Aftermath trailer that is particularly interesting

 

  • Chun-Li, Ryu, Ken, Guile, and Cammy vs M. Bison - Result: WIN
    • The aftermath assumes that it took a team effort to stop M. Bison's terror at the end of SFII. What's significant about this is that Chun-Li is the one who delivers the decisive blow that has M. Bison at the hands of the good guys. So that should score some "lore points" with her and against the man that's been driving her revenge arc for years.
      Though M. Bison goes the "suicide" route, rather than be defeated, i'll chalk this as a win for the whole team and for Chun-Li

There is one other thing: in Chun-Li's Aftermath Traiiler, it shows her fighting against Ken. I can only assume it takes place within the SFII timeframe, and a winner for that is unknown as well.

 

 

Street Fighter IV - OVAs

 

First starting with the Ties That Bind OVA. 

 

  • Chun-Li & Sakura vs SIN Henchmen - Result: WIN
    • Doesn't really mean anything, it was expected these two cuold beat a bunch of jobbers. Plus, this fight does nothing for Lore Points. But it's a win, and the only fight she partakes in the OVA.

And now the Juri OVA

 

  • Chun-Li vs Juri - Result: LOSS
    • Juri pretty much stomps everyone in this OVA to legitimize her as a character. Chun-Li just happened to be one of those victims in her way.

Street Figher IV - Game

 

Lets take a look at all the Fight-Your-Rival moments

 

  • Chun-Li vs C. Viper (Rival) - Result: DRAW
    • I'd say if it happened twice, it's not a coincidence. It certainly is within the realm of possibility that Chun-Li and C. Viper met and combatted during their investigations into SIN. Since C. Viper can't blow her cover, violence was the only option. Unclear winner on this one as both go on to resume their investigations into SIN. We can also assume that both of their "victories" to advance the arcade path will cancel each other out, if Chun-Li were to win in her path, and Viper were to win in hers.
  • Chun-Li vs Juri (Rival) - Result: WIN (or draw)
    • Take this with a grain of salt. But hear me out. In the cutscene, Juri acknowledges her beatdown in the Juri OVA, so there is some canon connection there. This fight is basically Chun-Li's revenge after getting stomped in their first battle. Take note that Juri activates her Feng Shui eye before the fight, meaning that she would not go easy on Chun during this fight. Chun-Li this time gets the better of Juri, but fails to arrest her and sends her retreating. So if we count Fight your Rival moments as part of canon, then it's viable Chun-Li managed to hold her own against Juri, who was toying with her for the most part of the Juri OVA.
  • Chun-Li vs Seth (Final Boss) - Result: Unknown
    • Since we don't see Chun-Li take on Seth outside her Arcade mode path, we can't assume that the two met, fought, or who would win.
  • Balrog vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: LOSS (or Draw)
    • This is one of possibly the few times Chun-Li and Balrog ever fought canonically. Assume we're playing from Balrog's perspective, Balrog would have to win to advance the path, which would mean a loss for Chun-Li. That, or possibly both fighters could be even in terms of skill and power, that Balrog is able to escape from Chun before she can bring him in for questioning. Too bad their Fight your Rival dialogue is the only reference we can draw from. 
  • Vega vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: LOSS (or draw)
    • Same with Balrog is that we'll have to assume we're playing from Vega's POV to advance the story, which would mean a loss for Chun.
      If we are to assume this fight would take place before the happenings at the SIN base, then Chun's defeat would allow Vega to get to the SIN base first before Chun-Li could enter (as show in Vega's SFIV Vanilla ending). Vega does get one last laugh against Chun-Li, albeit a sneaky one, where he traps her in lockdown before the gas asphyxiates her.
  • Gen vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: LOSS or DRAW
    • Interestingly enough, this is almost the same as Chun's and Gen's Rival dialogue back in SF Alpha 2
      I know what I said before, that we'll have to assume the POVs of the playable character to advance the arcade path. And same with Gen, in that Gen would have to beat Chun-Li to move on to the final boss.
      Gen said in the Fight Your Rival cutscene that he won't hold back against Chun-Li as she's trying to get answers from him (whether it be Shadaloo connections, or information on her father reamains unclear). In the end, Gen doesn't stop Chun-Li from continuing to investigate SIN, neither does he give her any info she desires. But Gen does save her in the base (as seen in Gen's vanilla ending) before Guile and Abel come to retrieve her.
  • Yun vs Chun-Li (Rival) - Result: Unknown
    • Yun has no Fight your Rival scenes with Chun, so while it could happen, there isn't any scenes or dialogue to pull information from.

 

Street Fighter V

 

Let's take a look at all of the Chun encounters in everyone's character story and A Shadow Falls. Chun-Li's character story takes place during her Alpha years, so this adds some more depth to her alpha story

 

Chun-Li Character Story

  • Chun-Li vs Vega 1 - Result: LOSS
    • Chun's first fight with Vega ends with him injuring her arm before retreating as seen in the post match scene
  • Chun-Li vs Nash - Result: DRAW
    • Chun-Li holds her own against Nash, but is unable to defeat him for long. Nash does this to demonstrate that if Chun can't take him out, her chances against M. Bison wouldn't be great
  • Chun-Li vs Vega 2 - Result WIN
    • Chun manages to overpower Vega and was about to question him before he spills about the death of her father. That hesitation was enough to allow Vega to retreat.

Birdie Character Story

  • Birdie vs Chun-Li - Result: LOSS
    • Another embarassing loss for Chun. She tries to arrest him for suspicion of Shadaloo activities, but Birdie fends her off and runs away.

A Shadow Falls

  • Chun-Li vs M. Bison - Result: LOSS
    • This wasn't really fair. M. Bison powerful already but got a significant buff thanks to the Black Moons. M. Bison not only squashed her, but nearly killed her and possibly injured her (see next fight)
  • Chun-Li vs Rashid - Result: LOSS
    • While I do believe Chun-Li is a better fighter than Rashid, she was clearly injured and hurt from her last fight with M. Bison, so Rashid was able to take advantage of that to beat Chun-Li and take her piece.
  • Chun-Li vs FANG - Result: WIN
    • Chun-Li beats FANG to rescue Li-Fen

 

Street Fighter III

  • Chun-Li vs Urien - Result: WIN
    • It is possible Urien wasn't going all-out, and only wanted to see Chun demonstrate her skills. But even still, Urien holding back would still be an incredibly tough opponent. And the fact that Chun-Li could hold her own enough to rescue Li-Fen deserves a win, even if it didn't result in a KO.

 

 

 

TLDR: Chun-Li's record 9 wins, 10 losses, 11 draws/unknowns

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

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16 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I hadn't taken a good look at the D Tier fam. Everyone in that Tier, sans Dan, should be ranked about Rufus. This list fam. This dude has Makoto in the same Tier as Dan. This has to be a joke man.

My fav is probably illuminati-powered SFV Nash being somewhere middle-way C tier behind Sean, who by the time of his peak in SF3 timeline still is a noob that get fucked up by generic nameless NPC

Sean Matsuda (Street Fighter)

🤣👍

 

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

G in A-tier with his amazing lore of "What's this guy's deal, anyway?"

G is kinda hard to place as seems kinda like Gill (specially SF3 Gill) case where we never seen him truly go all out, but the outcome of his (G) fights so far seems to follow some kind of power level logic, we seen him defeat bunch of middle/low tier characters (Rashid, Menat, Dan + hinted Elena and Hakan), but end with his ass on the ground against higher level opponents like Gill or Rose

 

A feels about right, even if to be completely honest we did'nt seen him tested against some B tier char. But i doubt they would bother declare him as a "Boss" to have him with the B crowd

 

Question is if he took these two loss because he could not defeat  Gill and Rose, or if he could (or at least have better chance) but to defeat so powerful opponents he would need to tap into powers/abilities that he prefer to keep secret, wich given the character is'nt so absurd

 

 

Edited by CESTUS III
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BootyWarrior Level 8

BootyWarrior

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14 hours ago, Chun-Li_Forever said:

 

So the guy's tier-list had me combing through Chun-Li's win/loss record according to the SF canon (because I have nothing better to do on a monday workday). In chronical order to the lore (including all games, retcons, OVAs, movies, story modes, Fight Your Rivals)

 

 

Quote

Alpha

Most rival encounters aren't canon or acknowledged by Capcom themselves. In Alpha 2 you knew Ryu fought against Sagat, Ken, Sakura and Akuma  because right after the fight you see the outcome in the ending. You don't get that with Chun-Li who lost to M. Bison. We see the outcome of Akuma vs Gen as well. So Chun-Li has no solid feats in the Alpha timeline unless Capcom confirms these encounters. Alpha 3 is one big mess as a whole.

 

Quote

SFIV

Same goes for SFIV, Ryu fighting Sagat, Ken and Sakura was acknowledged in Ryu's ending when he had flashbacks about them, you also had Sagat's ending where we see him fight Ryu. We don't get that for Chun-Li's rival scenes and it's also ridiculous to believe that Chun-Li can beat an even stronger Juri in SFIV. Juri's OVA and the SFIV game takes place in 1 month since Juri is 25 according to her OVA and Mel is born after Ken comes back from the tournament. Juri with a prototype FSE beat Chun-Li with no difficulty and Chun-Li spent the rest of the OVA in the hospital while Juri got into more fights and S.I.N completed the FSE for her.

 

The SFIV Aftermath is non-canon, Capcom could've mentioned it during SF's 30th and 35th anniversary but they haven't. Even if it was canon, Chun-Li needs help to beat M. Bison while Nash (alive) and Ryu (SFV, SFIII) can solo him.

 

Quote

SFV

She lost to an out of shape Birdie. The only thing worse than that is losing to Sean or Dan.

 

Quote

Beating Urien

Urien has no feats outside of beating a weakened Nash who needed Kolin to extend his time right after. People think Urien is strong because his tall, imposing and says "die" a lot. He's a chump, not even in the same league as Gill or M. Bison. Chun-Li's popularity is so great that people will think she's top tier narratively no matter what Capcom does to her (like losing to Birdie).

 

For SF6, the most you can hope for is Chun-Li getting the "family" power up Ken got when fighting C. Viper...then again family power Ken wasn't even to beat Zangief so nvm. 

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

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Posted (edited)
On 5/23/2022 at 5:17 PM, Darc_Requiem said:

At work, so I can't get into depth but don't forget Guy. He's ranked below Zeku even though Guy defeated Zeku to become the current master of Bushinryu. 

Yeah Guy is legit

Defeated Zeku, is implied to be around/almost same level as Cody, succesfully threatened Bison in 4 (well more like threatened his plane, but Bison thought he could not simply snap fingers and kill Guy, so he let Guy take Rose)

 

On 5/23/2022 at 4:45 PM, Chun-Li_Forever said:

 

Other thoughts in regards to general placement

 

  • There should be an SS tier above S-Tier for those of God Powers like Oro, Rose, Oni, Gill

 

While i agree that there should be a smaller upper "S+" tier above S (where we usually place Bosses and high high tier ones), at this point of the canon i would limit it to

 

Oro, Akuma who in SF3 reached a mutual destruction situation and interrupted the fight

 

Rose is close/below M.Bison level

 

Oni is only a "what if" character, he does'nt exist in the canon (similar to Necalli-if-eatRyuSimBison for example). Beside that Akuma (as seen in SFV) is working on become something that goes beyond SnH limitations, so i guess very final version of Akuma will be ultimately be even superior than Oni

I think even Oni would still lose (or at least be unable to win like Akuma was) to SF4 Gouken's Mu no Ken, but Akuma is building a fist to pierce even that shield

Not sure if SFV Akuma already reached the level he need to defeat Gouken, but i would not be surprised, after all Akuma is clearly designed to surpass Gouken and become a power that on whole earth only Ryu (the hero) can stop

 

Gill is very powerful and imho ever hold back a lot, feels only in SFV they started hint his power, but if we want to stick to SF3 Oro's evaluation Gill is supposed to be around as strong as Ryu (so not on Oro's level yet)

Must be noted that Gill is also very young (specially compared to other super-powerful characters average), even younger than Ryu: Secret Society rule is that candidate is ready for Presidency at 22yo and must leave the position at 46yo, so Gill must be just slighty older than 22

I have also a theory about how Gill power may increase while getting older, but will keep out as we should stick to confirmed canon

 

1 hour ago, BootyWarrior said:

Even if it was canon, Chun-Li needs help to beat M. Bison while Nash (alive) and Ryu (SFV, SFIII) can solo him.

Tbh even if took him time to adapt to his new body/reach top shape, SFV undead Nash is supposed to be even better, like he's supposed to be the same fighter he was + new powers/abilities (due Secret Society forehead gem energy) and with the experience of their first clash

SFV Nash got fucked by Rashid being too slow at stop Moons (and possibly by having to waste some gem power to "cure" Abel)

 

1 hour ago, BootyWarrior said:

Urien has no feats outside of beating a weakened Nash who needed Kolin to extend his time right after. People think Urien is strong because his tall, imposing and says "die" a lot. He's a chump, not even in the same league as Gill or M. Bison. Chun-Li's popularity is so great that people will think she's top tier narratively no matter what Capcom does to her (like losing to Birdie).

To be fair in SFV Urien also bitchslap Rog, 1-hand destroy Ed's psycho power projectile with zero effort, make Rashid and C.Viper run

It's not that he's not strong, he's just not on Gill's level

Would be curious to see Urien vs no-moons Bison... i have money on Bison because he's probably smart enough to take advantage of Urien's psychological weakness (arrogance, straightforward rage etc) to outplay him, but i would not see it a firepower gap thing

 

Btw Ryu in SFV recognize Urien as powerful, even if add he have limits

「確かに強いな。だが、お前には拳に籠めるべきものが欠けている。」 "There's no doubt you're strong, but your fists lack an essential ingredient."
1 hour ago, BootyWarrior said:

For SF6, the most you can hope for is Chun-Li getting the "family" power up Ken got when fighting C. Viper...then again family power Ken wasn't even to beat Zangief so nvm. 

Well we must recognize SFV Muscle Power (also known as MUSCLEE!) reached immense levels

 

-Tank Ken's most powerful Shoryuken ever, does'nt get knocked down

-Break even copyrights barriers, flexing his friendship with Darun in ASF, made SFEX cast existence canon

-Made Guile recognize Gief status, Guile accept to face F tier NPC (i think only ASF fight Guile won, that and some shadaloo soldier) while Gief take on a Shadaloo King

-Tank Rog's punches with the chest, send Rog meters away by flexing, Rog mad can do fucking nothing

-Zangief now land from the sky like the Hulk

-Tank katana strike to the chest, break same katana by flexing

-Tank psychoberseker Abel's charge, send him to coma to help him (typical MP method). Later to hold Abel (32 broken bones), will take combined Guile and Nash effort

-Emulate at first try holy secret technique that took Karin's family generations, after seen it once

 

Muscle Power bless

 

 

Edited by CESTUS III
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mikros Level 2

mikros

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BootyWarrior said:

 

[On Chun Li]

 

Most rival encounters aren't canon or acknowledged by Capcom themselves.[...]

[...]

[...]

I generally agree, especially the part about SFA and SF4 being quite vague and hard to take conclusions from.

 

For Alpha1 and Alpha2, given that the final bosses are character specific, I would take that Chun Li did fight Bison and it went like a mix of both game endings or Bison just brushed her aside while he had other matters to attend. However, SF5 seems to retcon this encounter to have her fight Vega instead. I guess Chun Li also met Gen and maybe he tested her to see if he recognized her moves as Dorai's.

 

For Alpha3, I'd take her fight with Birdie at face value since that's how she gets the Thailand lead (or she tricked him into saying), and not much else. I suppose she could have fought Cammy and maybe kinda lost the fight or parted ways, since Cammy then has to continue her A3 story (SF5 shows Cammy beating Chun Li in Cammy's ending, for whatever it's worth). Then Chun Li is generally shown inside the base in the different endings, so she probably didn't fight Bison or take part on other actions outside. Her other fights like Guile and Zangief seem like verbal encounters, though maybe SodomVsChun could be canon if it serves as the reason to stop him from progressing, and maybe DanVsChun since I think they know each other in later games and the fight has no consequences that would discard it as not possibly happening.

 

For SF4 I'd take ChunVsViper and ViperVsChun as a sign that the fight happened for real and resulted in a draw or peace. I'd discard BalrogVsChun and VegaVsChun as non-canon filler (Vega specifically is shown not fighting her in his ending). I guess I'd discard ChunVsJuri since nothing suggests that they fought again after the OVA, and it's just there to have some ingame representation of their rivalry from the OVA and promo material.

 

For Urien, I wouldn't look down on him as featless, as she's generally been shown and looked at as solid. Being second to Gill is no small thing and I could easily see Urien on Sagat-level. His fight with Chun Li in SF3, though, is another vague case since we don't know if he actually wanted to keep Li-Fen and lost against his will or it was all a game for him and handed the girl after.

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Shakunetsu Level 17

Shakunetsu

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't really take the tiers seriously nowadays just I was been 2-3 years I was before.

 

It's clear that Capcom doesn't even take it seriously and the idea of Dan being in competent than the other thugs is aging terribly and badly

 

It's better that they look at it something that can withstand or stand in an encounter instead of a deathmatch. Tier are even a bad idea in a fighting game franchise it ruins the core concept how they should be viewed.

 

Some characters can take opportunity about other characters that would had been exhaust in previous battle.

 

I myself was never wanted Dan to be a playable character again because I see him as a joke that aged terribly

 

BUT the point that he is the lowest among the rest including the dolls and generic thugs despite being able to shoot a ki projectile and among the few person that had direct experience with Gouken and Sakura and Blanka is a bad idea to keep him as weakest bellow the thugs or even bellow Joe, Mike, Scott and Max.

 

 

Edited by Shakunetsu
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Chun-Li_Forever Level 13

Chun-Li_Forever

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, mikros said:

 

For Alpha1 and Alpha2, given that the final bosses are character specific, I would take that Chun Li did fight Bison and it went like a mix of both game endings or Bison just brushed her aside while he had other matters to attend. However, SF5 seems to retcon this encounter to have her fight Vega instead. I guess Chun Li also met Gen and maybe he tested her to see if he recognized her moves as Dorai's.

 

I interpreted that her encounters with Vega happened before her eventual confrontation with M. Bison. Chun's character story takes place when she was a rookie interpol officer. Vega tells Chun-Li her about her missing father and "how he met his end". And then when she faces M. Bison, that when she finds out from him that he's the one who killed him. 

 

 

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mikros Level 2

mikros

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chun-Li_Forever said:

I interpreted that her encounters with Vega happened before her eventual confrontation with M. Bison. Chun's character story takes place when she was a rookie interpol officer. Vega tells Chun-Li her about her missing father and "how he met his end". And then when she faces M. Bison, that when she finds out from him that he's the one who killed him. 

 

 

Or it's Capcom going "nobody's dead until the body is found". I seem to recall that they've been playing with the idea of not knowing if her father is dead.

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, mikros said:

Or it's Capcom going "nobody's dead until the body is found". I seem to recall that they've been playing with the idea of not knowing if her father is dead.

i also remember fans toy with the idea he's Q, despite Q being an apparently blond over 2 meters tall person lol

 

Edited by CESTUS III
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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/26/2022 at 6:05 AM, Daemos said:


LMAO! These laymen! These PEASANTS! Everyone who knows their weight in SF lore knows Q is secret S-tier!

Fun thing is that we have zero fights to scale him next to other SF characters

 

Yes, the fact you need special requirements to fight him seems hint he's "special" in a way that we usually associate with very powerful characters (wich probably he is), but for what we know may also have been a gimmick on their side to show us how rare is to see/face him to increase his mysterious aura

 

Reality is we don't know how things will end up if he face Akuma, Gill or Bison

 

Good question may be start with how would be his chances vs G, who fight with similar style and while seem to have something less next to Q (power, incredible dense/hard body, likely ridicolous high weight) also have A LOT more, and still got beated up by Gill and even Rose... but if again, we can't know if G truly gone all-in in these fights either

 

Edited by CESTUS III
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YagamiFire Level 12

YagamiFire

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

This seems the kind of shit Story Thread love to dive in may lead to things 😄

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2022/may/29/dnd-alignments-sf5/

 

Not familiar with D&D, but feels to me they did plenty of wrong picks, like would not put Ryu and Chun in same moral category to begin with

 

 

So as someone with decades of D&D experience, I can confidently say the vast majority of people are as good at dealing with alignment as they are at playing fighting games.

 

Ones that immediately jump out....

 

Urien is not Chaotic Evil. He's Neutral Evil. He's entirely self-serving and willing to work within power structures if they advantage him OR willing to tear them down to put himself at top.

 

M. Bison is similarly Neutral Evil. The dude is Street Fighter's Emperor Palpatine. He's PURE evil.

 

F.A.N.G. is not Chaotic Evil. He is Lawful Evil. He thrives in a system of rules and structure and WANTS them to be in place. He actively wants to serve as 2nd to Bison. He wants to see a Shadaloo-ruled world. Which is tyrannical. That's lawful evil.

 

Rashid is more likely Neutral Good, not Lawful. He seems far more flexible in his approaches to situations.

 

Guile is not Chaotic Good. He's a military man and respects that quite a bit. He's Lawful Good or Neutral Good and absolutely not Chaotic.

 

Ken is not Chaotic Good. He's Neutral Good. He's a good guy like Rashid that is neither obsessed with tradition nor chafes under it much.

 

Even the writers example of "Chaotic Good" is wrong. Robin Hood is not Chaotic Good. He's Lawful Good. Prince John's rule was unjust and against the will of the TRUE sovereign King Richard. Robin Hood served King Richard by acting as an outlaw while maintaining an orderly, structured and, above all else, PRINCIPLED group of 'thieves'. Also the 'rob from the rich and give to the poor' is also not entirely accurate. Robin Hood stole from the sheriff of Nottingham who was a tax collector levying the unfair, unjust taxes of Prince John. A Lawful character is NOT required to follow unjust laws. At all. Robin of Loxley also immediately returned to the services of King Richard upon his return. At most an argument could be made that Robin was Neutral Good but he's absolutely not Chaotic.

 

Birdie is not Lawful Evil. He's more like just Neutral.

 

Gill is NOT Neutral Evil. Dude is Lawful Evil all the way. He's a tyrant that believes his own kool-aid preaching

 

Juri is not Neutral Evil. She's Chaotic Evil. She does as she pleases, tears down ANYTHING that would exist over her and fulfills her own desires.

 

THose are all the ones that immediately jump out at me. The writer seems to believe that "Lawful" means "Follows man made laws" which is not the case

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

So as someone with decades of D&D experience, I can confidently say the vast majority of people are as good at dealing with alignment as they are at playing fighting games.

Cool post

Thought it was interesting gimmick because picking obscure pieces of lore Capcom threw around here and there, some characters morals are'nt straightforward, specially if we try to analyze them under our western bias

 

Like good-hero-Ryu have no problem work for criminals as bouncer or essentially trick people (as he know he will win) by betting on himself taking part in underground illegal fights... but also on greater perspective while he will be ever willing to risk his own life to fight the current final Boss and save the world, he does'nt feel the duty of use his power for "justice", dude is just focused on personal growth as martial artist

 

G, Kolin, Nash, Oro, Ed & Falke, Cody, Viper, Akuma, Abigail, Poison and lot others are hard to paint with just one color

 

Even most pure characters like Chun show some contradictions in their moral compass

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CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, YagamiFire said:

Yeah alignment is a generalization, not a straight-jacket. Though I'd say Ryu betting on himself in illegal fights isn't really tricking anyone. It's not like he's throwing the fights. He's genuinely got confidence in his ability to win so betting on himself is fine.

Yeah, i was thinking at how they placed Ryu as Lawful Good wich for the -very- little i know is like the shining knight with a stick up in his ass, and thought that a character like that would never pass time with criminals let alone join underground fights and take part on gambling 😄

 

Btw if we don't want call trick let's say is at least very smart... let's be real, he know well (at least as adult) to be one of the most powerful fighters of the world  and some underground bum fighter is'nt likely to beat him, yet since he's around average size (SF world fighter average) and his bumfighter opponent is usually portrayed as twice as him (come to mind some SF2 version ending, but also non canon stuff like SF2V, SF2AM), everybody based on look will bet on local bum champion and Ryu being basically the only betting on himself with his small bet get big ass underdog money

 

It's smart shit, let's be real 😄

Said that, it's not greed... of course if wanted actual big money he would get involved in high level tournaments like Ken does, dude just want do his training life and occasionally grab the money he needs to carry on, and other times he's willing to do humble honest stuff like carpenter jobs

 

Not that play this gimmick on criminals is much shame either, reality on moral level is worse accept money to do bouncer stuff for them lol

 

Edited by CESTUS III
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ShockDingo Level 12

ShockDingo

Posted
Posted (edited)

CHUN'S new look is gorgeous!

 

Metro City looks amazing!

 

World tour mode 3rd person?!

 

New logo

 

Quote

Experience a brand new era of Street Fighter with a system built for creativity, vibrant art direction, and new modes that will reimagine the fighting game genre.

New modes, a focus on creativity? That has me excited!

 

edit:

I've noticed a TON of things and documented them in a thread here. I'll try and make a video collecting my observations tonight.

 

Edited by ShockDingo
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YagamiFire Level 12

YagamiFire

Posted
Posted (edited)

BOYOS WE GOT OUR DRUNKEN MASTER!

 

Alright EVERYTHING about this trailer was in the right direction. Looks like we might get something akin to Yakuza gameplay for SF6? A fantastic idea if true. Metro City looks FANTASTIC. The improved styling including the new logo all being spray-paint style is a very very good direction. The art direction is GOOD as it combines gritty street-looks of the past with vibrant colors that SF is known for. No muted garbage.

 

Chun-Li and Ryu look great.

 

Well done, Capcom. You had my curiosity, now you have my interest

Edited by YagamiFire
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Lord_Vega Level 10

Lord_Vega

Posted
Posted

So Capcom FINALLY made their minds and turned NYC into Metro City? Interesting it being the centre of the trailer. Even Damnd/Thrasher made an appearance.

 

Also, Yun's ending from 3rd Strike playing in one of the Times Square screens...

 

At first I thought Chun-Li was fighting Li-Fen, but it seems to be a new character called Kimberly.

Also, initially i thought Jamie was FANG LOL

 

Looks pretty cool so far.

 

Who want some Hado Pizza? LOOOOOOOL

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