The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

[CESTUS III]

32 minutes ago, BootyWarrior said:

Pre-SFV he was definitely an orphan. In the SFIV movie they show a scene where Gouken finds him, then Ryu talks about Goutetsu and Akuma. But after SFV...

 

It's possible that he is Akuma's son, but they'll leave ambiguous so fans will talk about it.

Yeah i remember that, Ryu looked like around 10 year old when Gouken found him, but that does'nt give us much outside the fact kid is likely born in that area

 

Btw i think the answer they gave can be either "diplomatic" non-answer if he is'nt or a straight necessity if he is and reveal it is keept as a dynamic for Ryu-Gouki final confrontation

 

But tbh if he is i think we got possible hints even before

Most insignificant but still dropping here, back to SF3 i remember them say that Ryu-Oro dynamic was straight inspired by Luke-Yoda from SW, wich made me think that if the range of SW inspiration for them was wider maybe Ryu-Akuma may have something of Luke-Vader too. But of course that's 100% speculation, nothing more than a possibility

 

SF4 i found bizzarre the choice of words in the confrontation between Gouken and Akuma where the latter call Ryu "the cub" (curious to know what's the term used in original japanese version), wich can of course be used simply to point out the age/experience gap between themselves and him, but still feels as ifunder Gouki's pov he and Gouken are two strong beasts (like lions or something) and Ryu while still young is part of same pack... if by blood or not, there's some recognization of Ryu (while at it i doubt Gouki would see Ken in same way, but again may be due blood, due inferior potential or both)

 

Then we have SFV with all that strange proud dad behaviour lol

 

Reality is i think we will never have an answer till the day (SF6? SF7? lol) capcom will finally let Ryu and Akuma have their final and definitive clash... that day IF there's something to know we will know. If not even there Gouki pull a Vader, guess we can safe say he's not the father

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

For people questioning how Alex can look like he does at 17. I present to you Brock Lesnar at 15 years old.

The problem with Alex look in SFV is'nt much the muscle mass, is that due game ingame artstyle (and i guess external 3D modellers) face wise he looks older than that, and older than SF3 Alex

 

In contrast Luke who's supposed to be bit older but still young reflect well his own young age

Same Ed, but of course would prefer use Luke as example as it's hard guess wich is supposed to be Ed's age due the unnatural growth speed and ambiguous timeline

 

Of course one can say each age differently and that's true, but if Alex was the kind who looks much older that should have been a thing of even older SF3 one too, but there both Kinu and Ikeno gave him way more youthful look

 

1 hour ago, YagamiFire said:

Enough juice'll do wonders

Well, to be fair Lesnar got freak genetics no matter what, but he seems to have indeed found some magic potion after '95  (delts are usually easiest hint for juice)

Spoiler

But again, SFV Alex could definitely have worked with bit lighter mass (he looks heavier than his older SF3 self, wich is'nt impossible but strange for somebody working on built muscle), but if face was'nt that mess would have been way more acceptable lol

[BootyWarrior]

In Akuma's SFIV ending 

 

小僧の運命をけて・・・ (Kozō no unmei o kete)

 

He calls Ryu a "boy".

 

[CESTUS III]

Thanks! So like he does later in SF5 western version

[sKreetFighteZ]

4 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Yeah i would love that too, mostly because i love hunt influences Capcom may have used for this or that

The Sagat Ultra2 and possibly Asrafil giving them ideas for Gill were the only i remembered, but just looking some scans is jumped out the Gief-Rog scene done by Ryu lol

 

I'm sure reading the whole thing somehing else may appear, capcom guys seems to keep at least in consideration SF japanese manga

Same for the Kanzaki one, surely there's stuff there too (example Vega SFV design + one color as specific tribute)

 

Correct, canon wise at the moment Ryu is an orphan, but orphans have biological parents too.

Not saying that will happen, but IF they have in mind to make that Gouki is Ryu's father nothing in the current canon prevent them from do it and will explain some strange change of vibes we got in SF4 and SFV

Yeah but i thought an orphan was a child with deceased parents, i think maybe in this case that Ryu's parents left him, or he simply has no memories of them 

[Technical Currency]

Huh, for some reason I always thought Ryu was a baby when Gouken found him. Not sure if that was canon or fanon though. Him being found by Gouken later in life might make sense though, and explains a bit about how Ken caught up to him so fast, given they probably started serious training around the same time as opposed to Ryu having a decade head start.

While they're not canon I am looking forward to the one shots Udon is apparently going to feature for every SFII character. I don't imagine they'll go to in depth or contain any shocking information but it will be interesting to see what they do with them.

[sKreetFighteZ]

32 minutes ago, Technical Currency said:

Huh, for some reason I always thought Ryu was a baby when Gouken found him. Not sure if that was canon or fanon though. Him being found by Gouken later in life might make sense though, and explains a bit about how Ken caught up to him so fast, given they probably started serious training around the same time as opposed to Ryu having a decade head start.

While they're not canon I am looking forward to the one shots Udon is apparently going to feature for every SFII character. I don't imagine they'll go to in depth or contain any shocking information but it will be interesting to see what they do with them.

They said Ryu was a baby or at least a very young child when Gouken found him

[martinitolove]

On 1/8/2022 at 9:20 AM, martinitolove said:

Regarding Kiki I've thaught so. I think I have his contact on instagram. Will send him a message and an invitation to join us here 😉

I've contacted Kiki. He answered that due to him not working for Capcom anymore, it won't be possible to update and publish the rotunda drawing...

Any other ideas whom to ask?

Is one of you good enough with Photoshop to extract it out of the video, clean it up and save as a picture file?

[sKreetFighteZ]

35 minutes ago, martinitolove said:

I've contacted Kiki. He answered that due to him not working for Capcom anymore, it won't be possible to update and publish the rotunda drawing...

Any other ideas whom to ask?

Is one of you good enough with Photoshop to extract it out of the video, clean it up and save as a picture file?

He's not working for them nomore? What a shame, i liked his unique art style 

[Shakunetsu]

1 hour ago, martinitolove said:

I've contacted Kiki. He answered that due to him not working for Capcom anymore, it won't be possible to update and publish the rotunda drawing...

Wow thats was a surprissed no wonder we wont see that style for SF6 and other promotional materials again.

[CESTUS III]

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

Huh, for some reason I always thought Ryu was a baby when Gouken found him. Not sure if that was canon or fanon though.

At 1:33 you see Gouken finding Ryu next to a burning home

At 2:15 taking Ryu with himself

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

Him being found by Gouken later in life might make sense though, and explains a bit about how Ken caught up to him so fast, given they probably started serious training around the same time as opposed to Ryu having a decade head start.

Yeah, the difference in terms of training time may not be big, Ken started under Gouken at 12

If anything is pretty likely that Ken had more fighting experience with other same age kids, as he was sent to Gouken's dojo because he was a scrappy boy (is when he dyed his hair blond, wich in japanese kids/teen culture was like declare you're some kind of hooligan/punk), while we don't even know if Ryu even knew other kids of his own age before Ken as the area where he was found/Gouken's dojo looked pretty rural/woods

 

Plus you have that Ken natural offensive style is something more immediate to learn compared to Ryu's defensive/counter approach

[Shakunetsu]

 

@DarthEnderX

 

 

I with the artstyle but no to another old man Ryu

 

 

 

[Darc_Requiem]

@CESTUS IIIIIRC Ryu started training with Gouken at 8 years old.

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

@CESTUS IIIIIRC Ryu started training with Gouken at 8 years old.

Cool, this make his training begin around 4 years before Ken

I looked in the wiki to see if there was something but while for Ken they have 12yo, for Ryu is only said Gouken rescued him when was a young child and that Ken arrived to the dojo a generic "sometime afterwards" (i guess they found no source for Ryu precise age when was rescued)

 

But search gave me an info did'nt knew/remember from SF4TttB, seems like whatever incident made Ryu faint and left the house burning also gave him amnesia, as he can't remember anything of his life before his first days at the dojo

"My earliest memories are of Master Goutetsu and Master Gouken. I remember Akuma training with them." Ryu's dialogue from Street Fighter IV: The Ties That Bind

[Chun-Li_Forever]

4 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

@DarthEnderX

 

 

I with the artstyle but no to another old man Ryu

 

 

 

 

I actually really love the 3D artstyle that SF5 has, most of the SFV characters look the best they've ever looked, and I hope SF6 continues to evolve with that. 

 

Though a 2D anime artsyle would be a nice callback, I feel that with the past few fighting games Capcom has done: USF4, UMVC3, SFxT, SFV, MVCI, they've fully embraced the 3D look and feel of the characters.

 

Plus, Capcom LOVES to milk every last nickel and dime out of their playerbase. And different costumes and skins are one of their easiest money makers. It's much easier (and I also believe it's also cheaper) to reskin a 3D model character than it is to redraw and reanimate every single frame for every single character but with a different costume. 

 

 

 

 

 

And on another note, Happy 35th y'alls

 

[Darc_Requiem]

43 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

"My earliest memories are of Master Goutetsu and Master Gouken. I remember Akuma training with them." Ryu's dialogue from Street Fighter IV: The Ties That Bind

Don't let Eventhubs see this. They have a hard on for Goutetsu.

[Shakunetsu]

9 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Don't let Eventhubs see this. They have a hard on for Goutetsu.

It like every podcast about characters they will like mentioned the need of goutetsu haha

[Darc_Requiem]

9 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

It like every podcast about characters they will like mentioned the need of goutetsu haha

They way the contort themselves to make it seem like it's a good idea is laughable. "Well, we know Falke uses a staff but he can bring a different type of bojutsu to the table." Yeah, it's like there isn't another character, that isn't dead, that can do the same. I must of imagined Jianyu 👀

[ShockDingo]

Yeah, I don't get their need for him to come back. There's so many other corners of the SF world to explore, we don't need to keep coming back to the Super Hadou Bros. corner. I watched Max's video the other day and I just hope that the SF6 style and aesthetic for visual flourishes in moves and things like V-triggers is something fresh. I don't want them to go nearly or fully realistic, if they do I fear a lot of charm in their character designs will be lost.

[Shakunetsu]

Ill go Jianyu than any dead character being revived haha

[BootyWarrior]

Most people in the west want the Ansatsuken users (Goutetsu, Gouken, Akuma, Ryu) to mirror the edgy Mishima/Hanma bloodline. Once they get their Goutetsu they'll start asking for Ryu.Jr in every article.

[Darc_Requiem]

30 minutes ago, BootyWarrior said:

Most people in the west want the Ansatsuken users (Goutetsu, Gouken, Akuma, Ryu) to mirror the edgy Mishima/Hanma bloodline. Once they get their Goutetsu they'll start asking for Ryu.Jr in every article.

Any lot of them are hypocrites. They'll complain about "Shotoclones" in one breath and request "Evil Ryu and Oni" in the other.

[CESTUS III]

38 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Don't let Eventhubs see this. They have a hard on for Goutetsu.

It's awesome Capcom reurrected Gouken, but Goutetsu should just stay dead lol

 

 

[Darc_Requiem]

3 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

It's awesome Capcom reurrected Gouken, but Goutetsu should just stay dead lol

 

 

It's funny that Akuma and Gouken being playable is due to EGM. Akuma was clearly Capcom's take on the "Sheng Long" April Fools joke in SF2. And Gouken from the SF3 version of that joke. In the case of Gouken the one arm Hadoken's and EX double Hadokens are basically just lifted from that joke.

 

[CESTUS III]

1 hour ago, ShockDingo said:

Yeah, I don't get their need for him to come back. There's so many other corners of the SF world to explore, we don't need to keep coming back to the Super Hadou Bros. corner.

This

1 hour ago, ShockDingo said:

I watched Max's video the other day and I just hope that the SF6 style and aesthetic for visual flourishes in moves and things like V-triggers is something fresh. I don't want them to go nearly or fully realistic, if they do I fear a lot of charm in their character designs will be lost.

SF should never go realistic

Thanks gods they aready lost lot of time and money trying to do realistic SFV prototype before realize it looked like crap, so maybe we can hope they will be scared to try that stupid gimmick again with SF6

 

But still with capcom marketing division still alive, the risk of them try to murder SF to conquer the mythical "western audience" is ever high

 

36 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Any lot of them are hypocrites. They'll complain about "Shotoclones" in one breath and request "Evil Ryu and Oni" in the other.

These are the shit-tastes people, their opinion is not supposed to be good

Sadly (at least to me) Akuma is going to stay around forever, but i wish at least Evil Ryu/Kage bullshit will not appear in SF6

 

[CESTUS III]

16 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

It's funny that Akuma and Gouken being playable is due to EGM. Akuma was clearly Capcom's take on the "Sheng Long" April Fools joke in SF2. And Gouken from the SF3 version of that joke. In the case of Gouken the one arm Hadoken's and EX double Hadokens are basically just lifted from that joke.

Ironic thing is that ultimately i consider Gouken (SF4 version, not EGM lol) to be a far more interessing and welcome character design  (and fight style) than Akuma himself

 

I like Gouken, great mix of Kanzaki's version mixed with bit of HNK (Ryuken and Koryu)

 

[Darc_Requiem]

13 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

Ironic thing is that ultimately i consider Gouken (SF4 version, not EGM lol) to be a far more interessing and welcome character design  (and fight style) than Akuma himself

 

I like Gouken, great mix of Kanzaki's version mixed with bit of HNK (Ryuken and Koryu)

 

I agree. Gouken was my main in SFIV. He's not really a shoto. His kit was a nice twist on the Ansatsuken we've been given previously.

[Technical Currency]

12 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Yeah, the difference in terms of training time may not be big, Ken started under Gouken at 12

If anything is pretty likely that Ken had more fighting experience with other same age kids, as he was sent to Gouken's dojo because he was a scrappy boy (is when he dyed his hair blond, wich in japanese kids/teen culture was like declare you're some kind of hooligan/punk), while we don't even know if Ryu even knew other kids of his own age before Ken as the area where he was found/Gouken's dojo looked pretty rural/woods

 

Plus you have that Ken natural offensive style is something more immediate to learn compared to Ryu's defensive/counter approach

This makes sense, thanks. I was under the impression Ken was sent to Gouken because he was a stereotypical rich kid and his family thought he was a leech, but him already having some fighting experience would not be surprising. I also seem to recall Ken being described as having more natural talent than Ryu(which explains how he can still keep up with him despite having a family and job as opposed to Ryu who just trains and travels the world)  so this would explain how he'd catch up to him quickly.

6 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

Cool, this make his training begin around 4 years before Ken

I looked in the wiki to see if there was something but while for Ken they have 12yo, for Ryu is only said Gouken rescued him when was a young child and that Ken arrived to the dojo a generic "sometime afterwards" (i guess they found no source for Ryu precise age when was rescued)

 

But search gave me an info did'nt knew/remember from SF4TttB, seems like whatever incident made Ryu faint and left the house burning also gave him amnesia, as he can't remember anything of his life before his first days at the dojo

"My earliest memories are of Master Goutetsu and Master Gouken. I remember Akuma training with them." Ryu's dialogue from Street Fighter IV: The Ties That Bind

Interesting, so does this mean Ryu knew Goutetsu and trained with him? I always thought Goutetsu died before Gouken took Ryu in, with Akuma coming back some years later to challenge Gouken and Gouken defeating him but sparing his life. Then he comes back and kills Gouken and defeats Ken in like one blow when the latter fighter happens upon their confrontation as he returns from winning his own tournament. The lore seems convoluted around these parts, or maybe fanon has elevated misinformation.

I do agree that Goutetsu is cool but I can't see how adding him to the game would add anything to the story-- we basically know what his role in it was, and anything else could probably be given to one of the other Ansatsuken users with little difficulty.

[Shakunetsu]

If people want goutetsu for story reason he could always exist in flashback illustration panels. 

 

Just like Gouken role in SFV.

 

I trust  Capcom that they can make Goutetsu unique and not a shoto.

 

But bringing him back doesn't make any sense and even in the story.

 

His interaction and narrative purpose is mostly just for Akuma and Gouken nothing valuable for Ryu and Ken.

 

Gouken on the other hand is connected to Ryu and Ken not just Akuma.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Shakunetsu

[DarthEnderX]

Every yeah that goes by that every other Japanese 2D fighting game developer DOESN'T just rip off what ArcSys is doing with graphics is a knife to my face.

I consider it right up there with rollback netcode in terms of "This is a SOLVED issue.  And nobody else is using the solution.  And that's infuriating."

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by DarthEnderX

[BootyWarrior]

8 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

This makes sense, thanks. I was under the impression Ken was sent to Gouken because he was a stereotypical rich kid and his family thought he was a leech

Ken dyed his hair and became a delinquent because of his parents not getting along. 

 

Quote

I also seem to recall Ken being described as having more natural talent than Ryu(which explains how he can still keep up with him despite having a family and job as opposed to Ryu who just trains and travels the world)  so this would explain how he'd catch up to him quickly.

Capcom's never stated that Ken's more talented than Ryu (in the games). In SF1 they were both called genius fighters. Ken being more talented than Ryu is an assumption fans make along with Ryu having no money or Gouken dying. 

 

Quote

Then he comes back and kills Gouken and defeats Ken in like one blow when the latter fighter happens upon their confrontation as he returns from winning his own tournament.

 

Ken didn't go back to Japan to see Gouken he went back to fight Ryu. Sagat's defeat caused Ken and M. Bison to go to Japan. 

 

2 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Every yeah that goes by that every other Japanese 2D fighting game developer DOESN'T just rip off what ArcSys is doing with graphics is a knife to my face.

I consider it right up there with rollback netcode in terms of "This is a SOLVED issue.  And nobody else is using the solution.  And that's infuriating."

They never mention the costume issue with the ArcSys graphics. Doesn't matter how good it looks, if they can't make extra cash through costumes it's a waste of time especially when ArcSys games don't sell anywhere close to SF (or KOF even) without clinging to other companies IP's (DBZ).

[CESTUS III]

10 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I agree. Gouken was my main in SFIV. He's not really a shoto. His kit was a nice twist on the Ansatsuken we've been given previously.

The "he's not really a shoto" part is exactly what i love about his concept (on top of being a fantastic concept), they found a way to still give him Ansatsuken identity but changing everything from the old formula: completely different body type, clothes, stance, moveset etc

 

You can see he belong to same school but he's also a TRULY different character, not same shit different flavour.

I find also awesome how his way to execute moves completely differently to Ryu express perfectly the experience gap given by age and many more years studying/training the art

[Shakunetsu]

https://www.facebook.com/143642715833736/posts/1762891177242207/

[Scotia]

The only reason I'd want Goutetsu to be playable is because it would be the last step needed to completely erase all of Akuma's confirmed kills and make him into more of a joke than he already is. 

 

But yeah fuck Goutetsu, he'd be a waste of a slot.

[CESTUS III]

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

This makes sense, thanks. I was under the impression Ken was sent to Gouken because he was a stereotypical rich kid and his family thought he was a leech, but him already having some fighting experience would not be surprising.

For SF standards it was a surprising "normal life" story, i see @BootyWarrioralready gave you the core of it

Ken's parents were about to divorce so stressed/angry Ken dyed his hair blond (wich in Japan is essentially a rebellion gesture) and started causing trouble, so his father sent him to Gouken to discipline him... but apparently have to focus on their son tantrums somehow fixed their marriage shit lol

 

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

I also seem to recall Ken being described as having more natural talent than Ryu  so this would explain how he'd catch up to him quickly.

Tbh i passed good chunk of my life training and seen countless kids progress (and being one myself starting at 5), reality is everybody improve/learn differently and there are 99 factors to count, the "talent" thing is try to over-simplify a complex thing

To throw in some possible motivations on top of what i said before (Ken having bit of fighting experience possibly compensating some gap  and his natural style being "more immediate" to learn), i may guess  -i put that under spoiler as bit long/OT-

Spoiler

Learning speed is definitely not the same the whole time, at very begin you know nothing and progress very fast compared to when you're more advanced... would split it in

-Learn technique

-Pratice technique

-Perfection technique and if need "break" it to adapt to yourself

First phase is much faster in terms of visible progress (you pass from zero to lot stuff) than second, and then you have good amount of years of pratice before truly understand how to "fix" it to fit better your body type, strenghts/weakness, style etc and enter third part

Good comparision if you're not familiar with martial arts/fight sports can be maybe learn a foreign language: you learn LOT of words and basic principles in first months, then takes ages fix grammar and do everything well (lol i'm still there with english), then only at last you're truly good enough to add to that language all the "finesse" and shades you can express in your native language

 

Then you have other stuff like psychological factors, the fact Ken started with an actual proper training partner, the approach to sparring/training (some go all-in some tend more hold back) and shit like that

 

But one thing that must be said about Ken is that he had indeed great instinct/creativity at enter third phase and adapting Ansatsuken to his natural way of fight/move, he broke the traditional form and invented new stuff more and before Ryu... regardless if this is because he's more creative mind, or not being as humble as Ryu (who may respect more tradition) it's something that have to be recognized.

It's also due game needing it (Ryu staying classic, while Ken being changed to lesser clone feel), but canon wise is something he definitely achieved

 

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

which explains how he can still keep up with him despite having a family and job as opposed to Ryu who just trains and travels the world

I've split this part as the adult phase is different thing

Again agree with something @BootyWarrioralready said (twice in this post lol), i ever guessed the whole Ken-got-more-talent is something made up by fans rather than by Capcom

 

In particular seems a thing based on 2 common misconceptions about their life:

 

1- "Ken does'nt train/train little, while Ryu train 24/7 on a rock like some movie Shaolin temple monk"

 

Ken is the one that actually have a lifestyle waaay more similar to real successful professional fighters

Not only surely Ken still train a lot, but he's rich with access to top training tools, nutrition, sparring partners, doctors etc and also compete in highest level martial arts tournaments in USA

 

By comparision Ryu live a more rough life (in some quote Zangief even tell him his lifestyle is not optimal for muscle lol), training with less advanced stuff and occasionally have to work, i remember him do normal stuff like bouncer or manual labor to gain some money

Of course Ryu likely train more in his "free time" and travel give him chance to meet more SF level fighters (as canon wise he usually does), but still

 

Real difference between them is not much amount of training itself, but the fact that Ryu travel the world a lot (likely staying away from home for months) while Ken chosen a more stable life to be good husbad/father

 

2- "Ken is distracted by his family wich weaken him, Ryu only have martial arts so it's stronk"

 

This is another common one, but iirc Capcom stated more than once that for Ken family is a motivation that make him stronger actually, as if a Ken that embraced Ryu's lifestyle would not be as good as current family man Ken

 

Not everybody have same optimal development, and apparently Ken chosen correctly his personal path to become the best version of himself

 

Would also add that while Ken found good way to live and smooth progress, Ryu for years had to struggle with Satsui no Hado shit... wich ultimately is something that honed him and forced him to reach greater heights (his SFV ASF arc show a lot this) but still has been a thing

But again, not saying that a Ryu who never been "slowed down" by SnH would be better, on contrary as said for Ken Capcom wrote Ryu's path to make him reach the best version of himself

 

13 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

Interesting, so does this mean Ryu knew Goutetsu and trained with him? I always thought Goutetsu died before Gouken took Ryu in, with Akuma coming back some years later to challenge Gouken and Gouken defeating him but sparing his life. Then he comes back and kills Gouken and defeats Ken in like one blow when the latter fighter happens upon their confrontation as he returns from winning his own tournament. The lore seems convoluted around these parts, or maybe fanon has elevated misinformation.

Good questions, and i have not enough knowledge to offer sure answer about time-gap of each event... about train with Goutetsu i don't know, the fact the old Master was still alive does'nt mean automatically that directly trained Ryu, nor the fact Ryu calls him "Master" can be take as proof (as title/respect Ryu will call him Master no matter what)

Plus there's some hierarchy going on, pretty possible that old high Master Goutetsu did'nt bothered train personally a child, as Gouken was already more than qualified to do it and was the one that chosen to adopt the kid

 

As far i can remember Ryu never considered anybody else as his Master (till Oro in SF3, of course)

Edited January 11, 2022 by CESTUS III

[Technical Currency]

@BootyWarrior And @CESTUS IIIThanks a lot for the answers, it cleared a lot of stuff up. I'm glad this board has so many knowledgeable fans on the lore. 🙂 I particularly appreciated learning that Capcom's confirmed  Ken's family is actually a source of strength for him as  a fighter and Ryu does more than train 24/7.

 

The Goutetsu stuff is interesting because that completely changes my perception of Ryu and Akuma's relationship if he vaguely knew of him as  a fellow more advanced student before he "fell." Interesting that he refers to Goutetsu and Gouken as masters but Akuma as only Akuma. Could it mean he was only a student or is it being used to show Ryu's disgust for him? I'm guessing the latter, given he'd have been Gouki back then. Sorry, just spitballing.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Technical Currency

[BornWinner]

Happy birthday Necali.

 

 

AKA if wasted potential was a character.

[sKreetFighteZ]

Necalli don't deserve to celebrate shit

[CESTUS III]

6 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

@BootyWarrior And @CESTUS IIIThanks a lot for the answers, it cleared a lot of stuff up. I'm glad this board has so many knowledgeable fans on the lore. 🙂 I particularly appreciated learning that Capcom's confirmed  Ken's family is actually a source of strength for him as  a fighter and Ryu does more than train 24/7.

You're welcome bro

For the Ken part of him finding in his family motivation/source of strenght, first time i remember somebody in the old forum mentioning it translating from japanese some Capcom text info. Sadly i can't be more precise on that one as i don't remember better, nor who did the translation (@Miðgarðsorm? RyoRedCyclone?)

 

A second time we got the xmas SFV side-story, where it's clearly said that thinking he had to protect his family, Ken thrown on the mysterious aggressor (Zangief, but was all misunderstanding lol) probably the most powerful Shoryuken of his life

Quote

"With a pointed breath, Ken positions himself to deliver a fierce uppercut. He lifts his entire body upwards, like a dragon stabbing at the heavens. His fiery fist connects cleanly with the intruder's jaw.

Ken's trademark special move was a little different this time. It was fueled not only with his usual fighting spirit, but with everything he's got. His fist hit something that felt more like steel than flesh, but it was definitely a clean, direct hit."

Then we have a non-canon example in Street Fighter III: Ryu Final manga... again, not from Capcom, but there Nakahira offer a point of view that IMHO is'nt much far from Capcom's and exactly about what we are talking about.

In the manga Sean believe family made Ken weaker, while Ken proof it's the contrary winning a sparring with Ryu that to some extent even parallel a part of SFV ASF story

Quote

Sean expresses concern to Ryu about his master, believing that recently Ken has gotten soft and it has diminished his overall fighting prowess. After the two rivals catch up, Ryu and Ken engage in a rematch with Ken overwhelming Ryu before his wife Eliza and their son, Mel. Ken claims to have become a true martial artist, finally finding his “power of soul”, his inner strength that manifested after nearly dying at the hands of Gill. Ken chides Ryu that his newfound strength comes from his family, something that he could never have achieved by himself and that Ryu will have to find his own strength on his own. Determined to find his own power of soul, Ryu soon departs.

 

About Ryu life wiki got a good piece

Quote

 

Kinu Nishimura also remembers what Akiman said when it came to Ryu's daily life, that Ryu usually does high paying but dangerous things such as acting as a bouncer or muscleman for gangsters, and basically bets on himself in street fights when he runs out of money.

Capcom's public relations magazine "Club Capcom," there was an answer from Ryu where he states that he also works a day laborer for physical labor.

 

 

7 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

The Goutetsu stuff is interesting because that completely changes my perception of Ryu and Akuma's relationship if he vaguely knew of him as  a fellow more advanced student before he "fell." Interesting that he refers to Goutetsu and Gouken as masters but Akuma as only Akuma. Could it mean he was only a student or is it being used to show Ryu's disgust for him? I'm guessing the latter, given he'd have been Gouki back then. Sorry, just spitballing.

My 2cents on this is i don't think Ryu felt Akuma was simply a "fellow student" as the gap back then was so immense that child-Ryu probably did'nt seen Gouki as something he could compare himself with. Plus again, i think since Gouken was his Master back then he seen Gouki as someting similar, think like Sean can see Ryu in SF3

 

But i agree with you on why by the time of SF4 he does'nt call Akuma a "Master", even if more than disgust itself i think it's bit deeper thing (more a principle than an emotion), the straight refusal of recognize Gouki's achievements due how he obtained them*... after all we seen Ryu in SF4 saying in rival cutscene that from his point of view Akuma did'nt surpassed human level, but just thrown away his own humanity

 

Interesting Gen say something very similar to Akuma in SFV before be killed by him, insisting even in his death moment that Akuma is fooling himself

Then in same story you have Ryu that seems way less "angry" than he was in SF4 about Akuma's perspective, guess it's his new mood vs evil as we seen he interacted with Kage in similar way

 

*ironically Akuma seems to disprect Bison for very same reason, he's disgusted by HOW he achieved his power lol

 

[sKreetFighteZ]

49 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

You're welcome bro

For the Ken part of him finding in his family motivation/source of strenght, first time i remember somebody in the old forum mentioning it translating from japanese some Capcom text info. Sadly i can't be more precise on that one as i don't remember better, nor who did the translation (@Miðgarðsorm? RyoRedCyclone?)

 

A second time we got the xmas SFV side-story, where it's clearly said that thinking he had to protect his family, Ken thrown on the mysterious aggressor (Zangief, but was all misunderstanding lol) probably the most powerful Shoryuken of his life

Then we have a non-canon example in Street Fighter III: Ryu Final manga... again, not from Capcom, but there Nakahira offer a point of view that IMHO is'nt much far from Capcom's and exactly about what we are talking about.

In the manga Sean believe family made Ken weaker, while Ken proof it's the contrary winning a sparring with Ryu that to some extent even parallel a part of SFV ASF story

 

About Ryu life wiki got a good piece

 

My 2cents on this is i don't think Ryu felt Akuma was simply a "fellow student" as the gap back then was so immense that child-Ryu probably did'nt seen Gouki as something he could compare himself with. Plus again, i think since Gouken was his Master back then he seen Gouki as someting similar, think like Sean can see Ryu in SF3

 

But i agree with you on why by the time of SF4 he does'nt call Akuma a "Master", even if more than disgust itself i think it's bit deeper thing (more a principle than an emotion), the straight refusal of recognize Gouki's achievements due how he obtained them*... after all we seen Ryu in SF4 saying in rival cutscene that from his point of view Akuma did'nt surpassed human level, but just thrown away his own humanity

 

Interesting Gen say something very similar to Akuma in SFV before be killed by him, insisting even in his death moment that Akuma is fooling himself

Then in same story you have Ryu that seems way less "angry" than he was in SF4 about Akuma's perspective, guess it's his new mood vs evil as we seen he interacted with Kage in similar way

 

*ironically Akuma seems to disprect Bison for very same reason, he's disgusted by HOW he achieved his power lol

 

Oh yeah, it is proven that Ken gets some form of strength from his family. It's mostly highlighted throughout SFV

[Technical Currency]

Quote

Kinu Nishimura also remembers what Akiman said when it came to Ryu's daily life, that Ryu usually does high paying but dangerous things such as acting as a bouncer or muscleman for gangsters

Oh God, Now I'm imagining Ryu as a loan shark.  The car mini game suddenly makes sense!

Edited January 12, 2022 by Technical Currency

[mykka]

I dont like shotos but I think Goutetsu looks pretty cool. Dont want him back though, unless Capcom, god forbid, decides to go back in time

[Shakunetsu]

5 hours ago, mykka said:

 Dont want him back though, unless Capcom, god forbid, decides to go back in time

Yeah there is no good things in doing a prequel of SF1 because everyone is mostly detached to each other and will just do some forced relationship and forced meaningful connection to make their involvements at encounter to each other have sense even they were originally meant to be strangers to each other.

 

Then introduce more timeline conflicts and age problem like Ed and Sean in SFV but much much worst. Because most of the important events would be forced to worked in a certain timeline even it was supposed to be more later or earlier.

 

Everything that are already important are already Zero and Alpha. Which was to fixed SF1 that most of its cast are thrown away and never been important in SF backstory and history from moving forward.

 

 

[CESTUS III]

16 hours ago, Technical Currency said:

Oh God, Now I'm imagining Ryu as a loan shark.  The car mini game suddenly makes sense!

Fun thing is that while it surprised me too at first read about Ryu hanging with criminals, reality is we ever seen him do stuff like this

or get even more involved in various anime (non canon but well fitting the char) like SF2tAM or SF2V in more organized underground fighting circuits, so him being at least familiar with street level crime makes more sense than not lol

 

Plus Capcom (and many anime) offer bit naive/childish view of street level crime punks, portraying them more as chaotic people that don't follow rules than legit EVIL pieces of shit... good example is that most of them (think many Mad Gear members or Birdie) through years has been made less "criminal" and more goofy/caricature, to the point they seem more than anything misfits that struggle to fit society

 

13 hours ago, mykka said:

I dont like shotos but I think Goutetsu looks pretty cool. Dont want him back though, unless Capcom, god forbid, decides to go back in time

Ryu is my fav character and may surprise i agree with you

I don't need most of them either

But i really like Gouken for his great old master design and uniqueness compared to the classic shoto, so would be my third pick after Ryu and Ken(done different as in SFV), who are a must to me

 

On 1/11/2022 at 10:48 PM, sKreetFighteZ said:

Necalli don't deserve to celebrate shit

Necalli IS awesome

His design is great and his ancient aztec background could have offered SO MUCH as villain, if i can forget story (we go on that in the paragraph below) and stick to his concept he's still infinitely more interesting/exotic/different threat for Ryu than the endless cycle of boring stronk japan devil shoto bullshit Akuma capcom trapped us in for decades.

Twice if we think that they feel can't even let another Boss sell us that he's #1, because ten minutes after Akuma will pull a Yujiro Hanma and wreck him because nobody is stronk as stronk japan devil shoto. Damn.

 

Necalli deserved much more

Capcom is guilty of give him absolute shit writing, there was so much they could have done with him and they did that crap lol

 

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by CESTUS III

[sKreetFighteZ]

1 minute ago, CESTUS III said:

Fun thing is that while it surprised me too at first read about Ryu hanging with criminals, reality is we ever seen him do stuff like this

http://fightingstreet.com/folders/artworkfolder/sprites/sf_sprites/sfii_sprites/ssfiix_sprites/ssfiix_endings/ssfiix_endryu.gif

or get even more involved in various anime (non canon but well fitting the char) like SF2tAM or SF2V in more organized underground fighting circuits, so him being at least familiar with street level crime makes more sense than not lol

 

Plus Capcom (and many anime) offer bit naive/childish view of street level crime punks, portraying them more as chaotic people that don't follow rules than legit EVIL pieces of shit... good example is that most of them (think many Mad Gear members or Birdie) through years has been made less "criminal" and more goofy/caricature, to the point they seem more than anything misfits that struggle to fit society

 

Ryu is my fav character and may surprise i agree with you

I don't need most of them either

But i really like Gouken for his great old master design and uniqueness compared to the classic shoto, so would be my third pick after Ryu and Ken(done different as in SFV), who are a must to me

 

Necalli IS awesome

His design is great and his ancient aztec background could have offered SO MUCH as villain, if i can forget story (we go on that in the paragraph below) and stick to his concept he's still infinitely more interesting/exotic/different threat for Ryu than the endless cycle of boring stronk japan devil shoto bullshit Akuma capcom trapped us in for decades.

Twice if we think that they feel can't even let another Boss sell us that he's #1, because ten minutes after Akuma will pull a Yujiro Hanma and wreck him because nobody is stronk as stronk japan devil shoto. Damn.

 

Necalli deserved much more

Capcom is guilty of give him absolute shit writing, there was so much they could have done with him and they did that crap lol

 

 

Well yeah true. This always happens with Capcom cause they have SOOOOOOOOOOO much damn potential when it comes to these characters and they give them the bare minimum 😤.  Idk maybe we should write our own lore 😔.

[CESTUS III]

6 minutes ago, sKreetFighteZ said:

Idk maybe we should write our own lore 😔.

 

If there's something i learned in years of SRK is that despite Capcom's errors and us SF-worshippers good intentions (and even some great ideas), one sure fucking truth in life is that fans should NEVER be allowed to touch SF canon*

 

I remember how ASF should have been according to some, or wich changes some characters should get, or wich characters should be in the cast

 

 

*would have no problem fix some clear errors in char profiles, but touch story? Nevah

[sKreetFighteZ]

2 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

 

If there's something i learned in years of SRK is that despite Capcom's errors and us SF-worshippers good intentions (and even some great ideas), one sure fucking truth in life is that fans should NEVER be allowed to touch SF canon*

 

I remember how ASF should have been according to some, or wich changes some characters should get, or wich characters should be in the cast

 

 

*would have no problem fix some clear errors in char profiles, but touch story? Nevah

I wonder why 🤔. But i am over it, ima write my own shit, post it on some obscure website and get famous 30 or 40 years now 😌.

[Miðgarðsorm]

On 1/12/2022 at 4:27 AM, CESTUS III said:

For the Ken part of him finding in his family motivation/source of strenght, first time i remember somebody in the old forum mentioning it translating from japanese some Capcom text info. Sadly i can't be more precise on that one as i don't remember better, nor who did the translation (@Miðgarðsorm? RyoRedCyclone?)

I don't remember, honestly. 🤔 It's more likely it was@bakfromon, because he's the resident Ryu fan who knows Japanese. The old SRK forum has become a mess when it comes to searching old posts, so I just gave up trying to find something.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Miðgarðsorm

[DarthEnderX]

On 1/11/2022 at 3:14 AM, BootyWarrior said:

They never mention the costume issue with the ArcSys graphics. Doesn't matter how good it looks, if they can't make extra cash through costumes it's a waste of time

Can't argue with that for Capcom.  Greed is gonna win out over quality there.

But SNK doesn't have that excuse.  As they rarely have alt costumes.

[Hawkingbird]

On 1/11/2022 at 3:14 AM, BootyWarrior said:

They never mention the costume issue with the ArcSys graphics. Doesn't matter how good it looks, if they can't make extra cash through costumes it's a waste of time especially when ArcSys games don't sell anywhere close to SF (or KOF even) without clinging to other companies IP's (DBZ).

There is no costume issue. Arc sys uses 3D characters for their games. They can easily create alt costumes for the cast. There's no real need for them to do that as they make money selling color palettes