The Street Fighter VI Story Thread: Shadaloo Died so Luke Could Live!

[Daemos]

3 hours ago, mykka said:

Now, can we get back on topic?

 

This is why the world needs Bison in SF6. Left wing, right wing, worthless! They won't know their place without a skull ruling over them!

[CESTUS III]

3 hours ago, mykka said:

@CESTUS IIII wouldn't be surprised to see Lily redesigned, but so far all the newbies have turned out exactly like their character art in the leaks. Lily has gotten some flack online for being a "stereotype", so we'll see.

Hope nothing changed, her design was pretty good as it was, would be sad if get ruined by usual internet shits whining on socials about imaginary outrage

 

Being a stereotype it's not a problem in SF, she would look perfect next to T.Hawk or other vets... but tbh also next to other newcomers, lot have deep stereotype going on too lol

 

As usual people that don't/barely know SF will try to interfere with SF development, sad shit

Hope SF6 team will be wise enough to ignore them

 

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by CESTUS III

[DarthEnderX]

4 hours ago, mykka said:

Far right and far left are one and the same.

It's really not.  Antifa and Neonazis are not equally as bad because they're both willing to resort to violence.  Because the who the target of that violence is, matters.  Neonazis pretty much just want to harm minority groups in general.  Antifa wants to harm Neonazis.  One group wants to hurt innocent people, the other group wants to hurt people that want to hurt innocent people.  They are not the same.

[Darc_Requiem]

8 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

It's not the only one, but it is the one with the highest viewership.  Acting like the news media is some kind of liberal bastion when the biggest network is the exact opposite of that is asinine.

 

That's like complaining there isn't enough Star Wars representation in media...

 

Drop it. And don't casually call people bigots because you can't have an adult conversation.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[DarthEnderX]

7 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

And don't casually call people bigots because you can't have an adult conversation.

When someone trips over themselves to jump to the defense of bigots, I will arrive at absolutely no other conclusion.  Guy called me a liar to my face, so I hit him with the straightest truth there is.

I have no interest in being sealioned about bigotry.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by DarthEnderX

[mykka]

11 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

Antifa wants to harm Neonazis. 

Imagine being this delusional. Or at best sheltered. Just stop. Antifa are fascists, as much as they claim not to be. You know who also fought the "right wing bigots"? Stalin. Mao. Castro. Pol Pot.

The left loves to play words games, and twist them to fit a narrative to justify their violence. They are abusive, and they come after anyone that doesnt fall in line with their radical ideology. I've seen it with my very own eyes. Clearly you're very sympathetic to their terrorism... a shame.

Edited August 11, 2022 by mykka

[mykka]

9 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Drop it. And don't casually call people bigots because you can't have an adult conversation.

 

[Phantom_Miria]

15 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

If you think that is bad, you should look up "What if Miles Morales Was Thor"

 

It is unironically one of the most racist pieces of pop media I can recall ever seeing. Probably the most overtly racist thing I can think of released by a mass media company. It's THAT bad.

I've seen some of it and it what pieces I saw look about as racially sensitive as the native majinis with big masks and who chucks spears in RE5, with the difference being that I don't recall Capcom having grand pretensions of being inclusive and progressive at the times and that wasn't the entire game.

 

Like with the push for having only white authors write/voice white characters, asian write asians and so on, it's definitely entertaining to see the performative slack-activists get so worked up over appearing progressive that they forget what the thing they're supporting is supposed to be about and end up going back to semi-racist or flat-out racist tropes for their stuff.

 

11 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

It's really not.  Antifa and Neonazis are not equally as bad because they're both willing to resort to violence.  Because the who the target of that violence is, matters.  Neonazis pretty much just want to harm minority groups in general.  Antifa wants to harm Neonazis.  One group wants to hurt innocent people, the other group wants to hurt people that want to hurt innocent people.  They are not the same.

Far right extremists and violence are more common than far leftists, that's true, and the reasons for violence are also different, but we're going off a tangent.

 

What's being talked about here is how portions of the online left seem to have decided to imitate '90s raging conservatives and moral guardians to push their talking points, not realizing that this behaviour is just as popular as it was when conservatives were doing it  (and still do it), which is to say, not at all. It has allowed the right to claim the mantles of anti-conformism and free speech (which doesn't make sense in the least because the right never cared for any of that and it never will, but this happens when you screw up massively) and alienated many people who would have been otherwise very open to progressive takes that weren't handled as if they were a hammer looking for nails.

 

I'm a leftist and I'm as progressive as it comes, and I simply think many people on the left simply screwed up massively and still screw up how to communicate and work toward their goals. That is when they don't just turn completely backward and fail to even realize it.

[DarthEnderX]

1 hour ago, Phantom_Miria said:

What's being talked about here is how portions of the online left seem to have decided to imitate '90s raging conservatives and moral guardians to push their talking points

See, I take exception to the "'90s" there, because it implies conservatives aren't still doing that.  Like Darc also implied like this is something conservatives don't do anymore.  But conservative leaders are STILL banning books and teachers from teaching certain curriculums in schools.

It's being framed as this reversal of positions, but in reality, one side is in the exact same place it's always been.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

2 hours ago, mykka said:

 

The image kind of loses it's oomph when you realize the guy with the bindle is just sad he's not allowed to yell the n-word.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by DarthEnderX

[YagamiFire]

6 hours ago, DarthEnderX said:

When someone trips over themselves to jump to the defense of bigots, I will arrive at absolutely no other conclusion.  Guy called me a liar to my face, so I hit him with the straightest truth there is.

I have no interest in being sealioned about bigotry.

 

You are a liar. Disingenuous too. Also wildly misinformed.

 

1 hour ago, DarthEnderX said:

See, I take exception to the "'90s" there, because it implies conservatives aren't still doing that.  Like Darc also implied like this is something conservatives don't do anymore.  But conservative leaders are STILL banning books and teachers from teaching certain curriculums in schools.

Let me guess... (note: this isn't a guess, it's actively me being able to accurately describe you just based on a shallow amount of evidence...because that's how easy this is)

 

...you don't read beyond headlines. You comment on things like bills or other legislation or the decisions of governing bodies (large of small) without even reading those things. Instead, you regurgitate what you see in headlines and relentlessly brow-beat other people that do not fall in line with your own ludicrously shallow understanding of the topic as if you are utterly and totally informed about it. You take single sentences posted from a 'news source' and adopt it entirely into your identity then actively judge other people for not holding the belief you yourself just assimilated with no research.

 

You call people bigots for slightly disagreeing with you then call anyone defending those people "in support of bigots". "Only a witch-lover would ever defend a witch!" - said the witch hunter as he put the fire to the woman and her children.

 

It's sickening in the extreme.

 

"Banning books and teachers etc etc"

 

Let me use my clairvoyance that borders on the skill of Rose to see what you mean here...

 

Oh I know. You read a headline about a book being "banned"...without reading the actual story. In reality the book (I'm gonna guess...hmm...Maus? I bet it was Maus) was not actually banned...but rather was just removed from a curriculum due to some explicit content in it that was regarded as not entirely appropriate for that age-group. Was the book banned? NOPE. It was merely replaced with a different book about the holocaust and its evils while Maus was still fully available in the library for ANYONE to take out. Wow what a banning.

 

I'll further use my clairvoyance to determine that you're also likely talking about a certain Florida bill (which I will bet a THOUSAND dollars you have not read) which simply puts an age limit on discussing sex ed with grade schoolers, something that, when presented in that manner, has overwhelming support from the public at large. In fact, it only loses support when it's framed inaccurately (oh and typically in terms that rhyme because the media treats adults like children...though I guess when those adults respond like children, what can you expect?)

 

You were asked to drop it. You didn't. So I unloaded.

 

Reap what you sow, I suppose. If you want, we can go somewhere with voice and I can likely casually dismantle every 'point' you think you have (a background in philosophy, sociology, law and debate in school is good for some things even if I don't use them in my work nowadays) but we both know you won't do something like that because you probably aren't interested in having anything challenged since you have 'beliefs' and not thoughts. People change what they think all the time, but religious belief? Yeah that doesn't change easily.

 

You've called people bigots. You've tilted against your windmills. You've gotten your hit of vapid righteous indignation against an imaginary evil you've magnified in your head to Brobdingnagian proportions utilizing an in-group/out-group mentality that leads to nothing but suffering in the long run. Congrats. Hope it was worth it.

 

Now you can drop it and we can move back to Street Fighter as is the topic, or you can put on your big boy pants and we can discuss this somewhere like actual adults instead of polluting this thread.

 

I suggest the former but I'll gladly engage in the latter too. Your call.

[YagamiFire]

19 hours ago, mykka said:

Marlowe got nerfed

 

They need to rollback this season change.

 

Nerfs hit too hard and threw off the entire balance. We need an immediate CTRL+Z because the state of the game is now unacceptable.

[ShockDingo]

Guys...holy crap, enough already 

[YagamiFire]

5 minutes ago, ShockDingo said:

Guys...holy crap, enough already 

That was my initial take-away, yup.

 

I'm here to discuss Street Fighter.

[YagamiFire]

@Chun-Li_Forever

 

A friend sent me this video because she's into dolls and she knows I like Street Fighter. Figured you of all people would appreciate it the most

 

 

[DarthEnderX]

3 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

You are a liar. Disingenuous too. Also wildly misinformed.

 

Let me guess... (note: this isn't a guess, it's actively me being able to accurately describe you just based on a shallow amount of evidence...because that's how easy this is)

 

...you don't read beyond headlines. You comment on things like bills or other legislation or the decisions of governing bodies (large of small) without even reading those things. Instead, you regurgitate what you see in headlines and relentlessly brow-beat other people that do not fall in line with your own ludicrously shallow understanding of the topic as if you are utterly and totally informed about it. You take single sentences posted from a 'news source' and adopt it entirely into your identity then actively judge other people for not holding the belief you yourself just assimilated with no research.

 

You call people bigots for slightly disagreeing with you then call anyone defending those people "in support of bigots". "Only a witch-lover would ever defend a witch!" - said the witch hunter as he put the fire to the woman and her children.

 

It's sickening in the extreme.

 

"Banning books and teachers etc etc"

 

Let me use my clairvoyance that borders on the skill of Rose to see what you mean here...

 

Oh I know. You read a headline about a book being "banned"...without reading the actual story. In reality the book (I'm gonna guess...hmm...Maus? I bet it was Maus) was not actually banned...but rather was just removed from a curriculum due to some explicit content in it that was regarded as not entirely appropriate for that age-group. Was the book banned? NOPE. It was merely replaced with a different book about the holocaust and its evils while Maus was still fully available in the library for ANYONE to take out. Wow what a banning.

 

I'll further use my clairvoyance to determine that you're also likely talking about a certain Florida bill (which I will bet a THOUSAND dollars you have not read) which simply puts an age limit on discussing sex ed with grade schoolers, something that, when presented in that manner, has overwhelming support from the public at large. In fact, it only loses support when it's framed inaccurately (oh and typically in terms that rhyme because the media treats adults like children...though I guess when those adults respond like children, what can you expect?)

 

You were asked to drop it. You didn't. So I unloaded.

 

Reap what you sow, I suppose. If you want, we can go somewhere with voice and I can likely casually dismantle every 'point' you think you have (a background in philosophy, sociology, law and debate in school is good for some things even if I don't use them in my work nowadays) but we both know you won't do something like that because you probably aren't interested in having anything challenged since you have 'beliefs' and not thoughts. People change what they think all the time, but religious belief? Yeah that doesn't change easily.

 

You've called people bigots. You've tilted against your windmills. You've gotten your hit of vapid righteous indignation against an imaginary evil you've magnified in your head to Brobdingnagian proportions utilizing an in-group/out-group mentality that leads to nothing but suffering in the long run. Congrats. Hope it was worth it.

 

Now you can drop it and we can move back to Street Fighter as is the topic, or you can put on your big boy pants and we can discuss this somewhere like actual adults instead of polluting this thread.

 

I suggest the former but I'll gladly engage in the latter too. Your call.

tl;dr!  Wasted ya life, suckah!

2 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

That was my initial take-away, yup.

"My initial takeaway was enough already, which is why I then wrote 8 paragraphs about it!"

 

I like how every time someone says "Let's drop it", it's after they just posted a whole rant, or is immediately followed by them taking another dig.  Which doesn't mean "drop it", it means "Lemme get the last word in, THEN we can drop it."

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by DarthEnderX

[YagamiFire]

Actually you were given the chance to drop it OR engage in the conversation like an adult (just elsewhere). Instead, you continue to act like a child, reinforcing what Darc pointed out. And yes, people get 'the last word' as a one for one after you throw accusations like 'bigot' out in an irresponsible, childish manner. That's life. You say "You suck" then the other person says "No you suck. Now drop it" and then you walk away. One for one. Shot for shot..

 

That's how the cookie crumbles.

 

I was of the opinion to drop it and/or ignore it basically until you didn't drop it and started slinging accusations at people I've conversed with for years upon years that have never been anything but cool. At that point I'm not going to meekly shut up and I'm not going to let by-gones be by-gones. I'm going to call out bullshit. Just cuz you don't like your bullshit being called out on a one for one basis is too bad-so sad territory.

 

BTW, yes you did read it and it bothered you immensely because of how deep it cut so you had to ignore it rather than address it. Typical emotional deflection. Reinforces what I said about you being a disingenuous liar too.

 

Now, do you want to carry on with this nonsense in a Street Fighter story thread when everyone else wants to drop it and move on, or do you want to return to the topic at hand (y'know, Street Fighter...which we're currently in a huge ramp-up period for)? If it's the former, a change of venue is in order because the nonsense is not germane...but I'll be happy to change that venue with you. If it's the latter? Cool, let's move on.

Edited August 12, 2022 by YagamiFire

[YagamiFire]

19 hours ago, Daemos said:

 

This is why the world needs Bison in SF6. Left wing, right wing, worthless! They won't know their place without a skull ruling over them!

Shadaloo Uber Alles

[DarthEnderX]

18 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

Actually you were given the chance to drop it OR engage in the conversation like an adult (just elsewhere). Instead, you continue to act like a child, reinforcing what Darc pointed out. And yes, people get 'the last word' as a one for one after you throw accusations like 'bigot' out in an irresponsible, childish manner. That's life. You say "You suck" then the other person says "No you suck. Now drop it" and then you walk away. One for one. Shot for shot..

 

That's how the cookie crumbles.

 

I was of the opinion to drop it and/or ignore it basically until you didn't drop it and started slinging accusations at people I've conversed with for years upon years that have never been anything but cool. At that point I'm not going to meekly shut up and I'm not going to let by-gones be by-gones. I'm going to call out bullshit. Just cuz you don't like your bullshit being called out on a one for one basis is too bad-so sad territory.

 

BTW, yes you did read it and it bothered you immensely because of how deep it cut so you had to ignore it rather than address it. Typical emotional deflection. Reinforces what I said about you being a disingenuous liar too.

 

Now, do you want to carry on with this nonsense in a Street Fighter story thread when everyone else wants to drop it and move on, or do you want to return to the topic at hand (y'know, Street Fighter...which we're currently in a huge ramp-up period for)? If it's the former, a change of venue is in order because the nonsense is not germane...but I'll be happy to change that venue with you. If it's the latter? Cool, let's move on.

Skiiip!

[YagamiFire]

 

This got me thinking...

 

People were really mad when Decapre came out and was just a slight sprite edit but with new moves...

 

...but reaction to Awakened Orochi Trio is very positive

 

I think that's interesting and it has a lot to do with expectations and setting up characters beforehand. With Decapre, people were (rightfully considering how Capcom had framed it at the time) expecting a "New" character and "New" does not translate in peoples minds to "slight sprite edit"...but functionally Decapre WAS a new character in the same way the Orochis are new characters because they all play very very differently from their counterparts.

 

Now, the Orochis have history in the series and people are already familiar with them. Hell, Orochi Yashiro is my favorite grappler in any fighter so when regular Yash was announced I was already praying for O. Yash to come out too. So, in this case, a 'slight sprite edit' results in roster additions people like...

 

Decapre, however, was basically entirely new to Street Fighter. In the lore? She existed in a rough manner...but in gameplay? Not at all. People had no connection to her...and now unfortunately are probably soured on her from SF4.

 

I feel like SF could intelligently take advantage of stuff like this though. If you had Evil Ryu...errr...I mean "Kage" (so lame) come out as a bonus character of some kind of something and he was fundamentally just a slight edit of Ryu visually but with all new moves like the Orochis, I don't think people get upset at that because they WANT Evil Ryu...so reusing Ryu as a base seems logical/acceptable as a way to get him into the game. It makes people happy to have received him.

 

Like imagine if, after introducing all of them, SF5 had later done a 'Doll Pack' and released playable versions of all the Dolls in an expansion pack that was discounted. That could have been a great addition and people wouldn't have felt cheated.

 

Just a thought I had when watching this video and realizing the similarities between the Orochis and Decapre on a conceptual level that ended up so very different in practice.

[DarthEnderX]

I still don't like it when a character gets multiple roster slots.

 

Having a completely new moveset almost makes it worse.  Because it wasn't just a cheap, easy clone.  They DEFINITELY took development resources that could have brought us 3 extra characters instead.

[YagamiFire]

16 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

I still don't like it when a character gets multiple roster slots.

 

Having a completely new moveset almost makes it worse.  Because it wasn't just a cheap, easy clone.  They DEFINITELY took development resources that could have brought us 3 extra characters instead.

Are you saying a character like Decapre, Evil Ryu, or the Orochi Trio being made takes up the resources of THREE entirely new extra characters each?

[DarthEnderX]

15 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

Are you saying a character like Decapre, Evil Ryu, or the Orochi Trio being made takes up the resources of THREE entirely new extra characters each?

The Orochi TRIO does, yes.  Because there are 3 of them, and they don't reuse the movesets of the standard versions.

[YagamiFire]

11 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

The Orochi TRIO does, yes.  Because there are 3 of them, and they don't reuse the movesets of the standard versions.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess you are not involved in any capacity with video game design? Or really any similar industry?

[DarthEnderX]

8 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

I am going to go out on a limb and guess you are not involved in any capacity with video game design? Or really any similar industry?

Are you just gonna pick fights about nothing now because I made you waste your life earlier?

Or is the basic math of "3 characters with 3 new sets of animations = 3 characters" not adding up for you?
 

Edited August 12, 2022 by DarthEnderX

[YagamiFire]

14 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Are you just gonna pick fights about nothing now because I made you waste your life earlier?

Or is the basic math of "3 characters with 3 new sets of animations = 3 characters" not adding up for you?
 

A "no I haven't" would have sufficed.

 

Your math is wrong.

 

Very very wrong.

 

Three characters where you have the entirety of their character model (or a VAST amount of it) all set and ready to go already is much much much MUCH less work than three entirely new characters to create. The Orochi Trio are far easier to make than three new characters from scratch. It's a huge amount of time savings across multiple departments.

 

Source: I have actual education & industry experience in the field.

Edited August 12, 2022 by YagamiFire

[DarthEnderX]

3 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

Source: I have actual education & industry experience in the field.

Yeah...I don't believe you, because what you said was a straight up lie.

The animation rig for a moveset is by far the most labor-intensive portion of developing a 3d character.  The actual character model is simple by comparison.  That's why every modder on the planet can reskin a character into another character, but very few of them can create new movesets.

 

[Shakunetsu]

3 hours ago, YagamiFire said:

This got me thinking...

 

People were really mad when Decapre came out and was just a slight sprite edit but with new moves...

 

...but reaction to Awakened Orochi Trio is very positive

 

I think that's interesting and it has a lot to do with expectations and setting up characters beforehand. With Decapre, people were (rightfully considering how Capcom had framed it at the time) expecting a "New" character and "New" does not translate in peoples minds to "slight sprite edit"...but functionally Decapre WAS a new character in the same way the Orochis are new characters because they all play very very differently from their counterparts.

 

Now, the Orochis have history in the series and people are already familiar with them. Hell, Orochi Yashiro is my favorite grappler in any fighter so when regular Yash was announced I was already praying for O. Yash to come out too. So, in this case, a 'slight sprite edit' results in roster additions people like...

 

Decapre, however, was basically entirely new to Street Fighter. In the lore? She existed in a rough manner...but in gameplay? Not at all. People had no connection to her...and now unfortunately are probably soured on her from SF4.

 

I feel like SF could intelligently take advantage of stuff like this though. If you had Evil Ryu...errr...I mean "Kage" (so lame) come out as a bonus character of some kind of something and he was fundamentally just a slight edit of Ryu visually but with all new moves like the Orochis, I don't think people get upset at that because they WANT Evil Ryu...so reusing Ryu as a base seems logical/acceptable as a way to get him into the game. It makes people happy to have received him.

 

Like imagine if, after introducing all of them, SF5 had later done a 'Doll Pack' and released playable versions of all the Dolls in an expansion pack that was discounted. That could have been a great addition and people wouldn't have felt cheated.

 

Just a thought I had when watching this video and realizing the similarities between the Orochis and Decapre on a conceptual level that ended up so very different in practice.

agree on this those were "unique characters" not just boring EVIL RYU like direct clones that makes the original Ryu totally obsolete because of just a bit of animation change, properties changes and added new moves but the whole gameplan of the original Ryu and gameplay is still intact. SF4 was already the true result of this

 

As for Decapre I also agree. She is not a Cammy with better option or a Cammy with extra tools.

 

  Yet to be fair this one is true

23 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

The animation rig for a moveset is by far the most labor-intensive portion of developing a 3d character.  The actual character model is simple by comparison.  That's why every modder on the planet can reskin a character into another character, but very few of them can create new movesets.

 

As for someone also who has also background and does animation, and worked with people I could guarantee this part.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Shakunetsu

[YagamiFire]

41 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Yeah...I don't believe you, because what you said was a straight up lie.

The animation rig for a moveset is by far the most labor-intensive portion of developing a 3d character.  The actual character model is simple by comparison.  That's why every modder on the planet can reskin a character into another character, but very few of them can create new movesets.

 

...

 

Man, your attitude really does you no favors.

 

The rigging is what ALLOWS you to animate a model. Rigging is the system by which the methodology for movement is 'attached' to the model to be animated. That is to say, it's the system that creates the interlinking relationships between the different parts of the 3d model frame. Rigging is not 'animation', it is the underlying logic for that animation.

 

The model is what is being moved, the rigging is what attaches to the model to help tell it how everything relates to one another during movement (in a nutshell) and then the animation can come on top of that. This is how you can take a 3d model and move it through different motions in 3d space and things will...well...move appropriately. This does not mean the rig is doing the 'animation'. Ugh even that doesn't sufficiently explain stuff. It's hard for me to put some of this into words appropriately. I have a buddy that could explain it way better because animation is entirely his thing...so bare with me.

 

Anyway, this is also why you will see rigging fails even though the animation still 'works'. I remember one particular one where they were putting different skins on Akuma in SF4 (I want to say it was SF4...might have been 5 but 4 definitely feels correct to my recollection) and it would invariably screw up the models mouth during animations because Akuma's rigging for his mouth is so radically different than most of the other characters for his scowl and how it contorts his face. It's because the points the rigging 'attaches' to are not appropriate for the animation as it relates to the model. It's like having 'smart' joints on a puppet that help it move intuitively, logically and consistently when the strings are pulled. There's a whole system of kinematics at work (though obviously I don't know the exact animation methodology that SNK is using for their work...but presumably it's one that's not hand animating literally everything at every level since well that would be absurd)

 

So...again you're dealing with very different things here. Model/Rigging/Animation are all separate but related to each other.

 

Yashiro and Orochi Yashiro are going to have the (and I'm presuming here but I'm also 99% certain) identical rigging. In fact, I am positive of this due to O. Yash having Yashiro's exact outfit as an alt costume. Their rigging and models are exactly the same. This makes it very easy (now, again, LOL that is going to be a 'relative' easy as compared to having to ALSO set-up the entire rigging for the model in addition to doing animations) to introduce new animations because you can basically keyframe the animation like you would in traditional 2d animation and the rigging (when done appropriately) transitions the model through the motions necessary (again like the puppet on a string...though once more this is dependent on animation methodology). This often requires little touch-ups and stuff but it still saves an immense amount of time because you're not setting up all new rigging on an all new model and then generating all new animations.

 

Basically all they did was create a new costume for the Orochis and apply it to their base 3d model, skip the entire rigging phase (since it's already done) and jump right to just doing the animations for the new attacks (which they already have references for thanks to them being legacy characters).

 

That is a huge time savings.

 

Getting rigging right for a new model is very time consuming because it's something you want to get right. I mean just consider the work involved in rigging a face for animations. They don't need to do that again for the Orochis. At all. Then there's the rest of the body. They don't have to do rigging for that either. It's all already there.

 

They just have to do some new attack animations.

 

The Orochis vs three entirely new characters is a MASSIVE time savings.

Edited August 12, 2022 by YagamiFire

[YagamiFire]

31 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

As for someone also who has also background and does animation, and worked with people I could guarantee this part.

Yes 100% but Yashiro and O. Yashiro are going to share the same rigging since they have the same model while having a few different animations utilizing that rigging (basically their idle animations, special moves and supers as well as, of course, their entrances & victory poses. Pretty sure Yash and O. Yash don't have different normals animation-wise). That's the huge time savings I'm talking about.

 

The work to go from having Yashiro and making O. Yashiro is far less than having Yashiro and just making (as an example) Malin in King of Fighters XV. I mean it's quite literally the logic behind NOT creating an entire new model and character. Sharing resources between two 'different' characters like Yash and O.Yash or Cammy/Decapre is precisely because it saves time and money.

 

EDIT:

Actually another good example of this is SFxTekken. With characters like Ogre they just took Seth's model, edited what is basically a new skin for it and utilized existing rigging for use with some new animations.

Edited August 12, 2022 by YagamiFire

[YagamiFire]

 

Oh! Here! This is a great video that is short and concise about rigging and animation that just talks a bit about the work that goes into it. It touches upon the work that the rigging team will do to set-up a character for the animators to then work with. You can actually see in the video when the rigging has been set-up then an animator is working with the rigged model to move it into different animations which will make up the frames.

 

 

This video also has a very basic breakdown in a very simple manner about the relationship between the model and the rig and how the rig works with the model to facilitate the animation where once the rig is in place on the model, you can move the model into the poses you want for its animation and the rig defines how the model reacts from that animation movement.

 

These are all things that are already in the can for the Orochi Trio. Their 3d modeling and rigging are all done (save for their different clothing outfits obviously which is less work than the full model...hence all the costume packs in video games). This means they can skip straight to the animation portion for them. That's immense time savings by cutting out cycles from entire departments.

[Darc_Requiem]

So I spent the evening playing Xenoblade Chronicles 3, what did I miss? 🙃

[YagamiFire]

3 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

So I spent the evening playing Xenoblade Chronicles 3, what did I miss? 🙃

I'm hyped I finally got a 3d version of my favorite grappler ever (Orochi Yashiro). Other than that? Not much.

[Darc_Requiem]

16 minutes ago, YagamiFire said:

I'm hyped I finally got a 3d version of my favorite grappler ever (Orochi Yashiro). Other than that? Not much.

Yeah Orochi Yashiro is a cool character. I really need to start playing KOF or any fighter for that matter again. I've been on a RPG kick the last few months. 

[YagamiFire]

1 minute ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Yeah Orochi Yashiro is a cool character. I really need to start playing KOF or any fighter for that matter again. I've been on a RPG kick the last few months. 

Lately I've been playing an absurd amount of Marvel Snap and it makes me wish something like Street Fighter had such a fun, quick mobile game. My friend wants to get into Street Fighter now though because he saw 6 and fell in love with it (he wants to play Jaime big time). So I'm gonna get the chance to start showing him fundamentals. Really looking forward to it.

[Chun-Li_Forever]

 

[ShockDingo]

Just now, Chun-Li_Forever said:

 

Ooh nice, I was waiting for these! I can't wait till the game comes out and there's compilations of all the special/ contextual animations!

[CESTUS III]

On 8/12/2022 at 7:28 AM, YagamiFire said:

 

This got me thinking...

 

People were really mad when Decapre came out and was just a slight sprite edit but with new moves...

 

...but reaction to Awakened Orochi Trio is very positive

 

I think that's interesting and it has a lot to do with expectations and setting up characters beforehand. With Decapre, people were (rightfully considering how Capcom had framed it at the time) expecting a "New" character and "New" does not translate in peoples minds to "slight sprite edit"...but functionally Decapre WAS a new character in the same way the Orochis are new characters because they all play very very differently from their counterparts.

 

Now, the Orochis have history in the series and people are already familiar with them. Hell, Orochi Yashiro is my favorite grappler in any fighter so when regular Yash was announced I was already praying for O. Yash to come out too. So, in this case, a 'slight sprite edit' results in roster additions people like...

 

Decapre, however, was basically entirely new to Street Fighter. In the lore? She existed in a rough manner...but in gameplay? Not at all. People had no connection to her...and now unfortunately are probably soured on her from SF4.

 

I feel like SF could intelligently take advantage of stuff like this though. If you had Evil Ryu...errr...I mean "Kage" (so lame) come out as a bonus character of some kind of something and he was fundamentally just a slight edit of Ryu visually but with all new moves like the Orochis, I don't think people get upset at that because they WANT Evil Ryu...so reusing Ryu as a base seems logical/acceptable as a way to get him into the game. It makes people happy to have received him.

 

Like imagine if, after introducing all of them, SF5 had later done a 'Doll Pack' and released playable versions of all the Dolls in an expansion pack that was discounted. That could have been a great addition and people wouldn't have felt cheated.

 

Just a thought I had when watching this video and realizing the similarities between the Orochis and Decapre on a conceptual level that ended up so very different in practice.

 

As general rule with very very few exceptions* i hate clones or variants of same char, feels like a scam that cripple the true cast potential

 

I have no problem with them if they don't take an actual character slot, ideal solution would be "Bonus Characters" kind of slot like SC3 or SC4 where with one single slot you open a drop-down menu and there you have multiple characters that took them less work than actual legit ones

 

If this may be problematic because FGC ever in search of excuse to ban chars and shrink cast would just declare all ones in the slot are not allowed in tournaments (not that i would care lol), an alternative solution would be make them have a well known imput, like push start on some particular char slot to make appear alt version or shit like that, but don't eat a slot

 

When i'm hyped to discover next DLC season, and i get EvilRYuKage or Decapre i feel game got robbed of the chance to get an actual new char (even one i don't like/care, let alone awesome ones), but they get free pass for that shit because people's support

 

How much they may be popular mean little to me (but i understand why mean lot to capcom), because base shit on popularity mean let "the people" build a cast and the people have no fucking idea about how to build a great variety cast

And of course if we take an actual new character who does'nt fit popular archetypes (let's say Honda, glad he's in SF6) but help the cast variety (bring new martial art, body type, archetype, gameplay etc), he will never be as liked as the edgy tryhard alt version of a popular cool char... because fans are usually childish in tastes and tend to have zero overview nor realize that SF is SF (and lot of FG world,wich is essentially born from SF2) when it have it's freaks, weirdos, "traditional" characters, big grapplers etc... so they will ever prefer a "cool" char over what they perceive as a boring one, despite the fact maybe the latter brings more variety to the existing group

 

Of course a very well done visual/gameplay differentiation from the original, strong story explanation and all that stuff may make the scam bit less offensive, but still would take an incredible amount of that to make me think is a good idea sacrifice a precious official slot for a derivative character, specially when there are legit chars waiting to jump in

 

As for Decapre the scam had the bad timing to be played when people had high expectation for the "mysterious character", if she was dropped in the middle of a larger update (like SF4->SSF4) together with many other chars the scam would have been perceived as less offensive and the reaction less loud

 

*Of course Ryu and Ken (even if i'm a fan of Ken becoming ever more different than Ryu).

Urien more interesting than Gill, and made sense as inclusion in a context where Gill was'nt a playable char (tbh role/imagery wise Gill works better as OP npc)

Other freepass is Siegfried and Nightmare, but to be fair they coexisted as clones with slots only in SC1

 

 

PS: i admit from that vid i take Orochi Chris over regular Chris, despite O.Chris being over 9000 edgy shit, but guess speak volumes about what i think of regular Chris lol

 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by CESTUS III

[DarthEnderX]

Instead of being separate characters, their Orochi versions should have been, like, install supers for the regular versions.

 

[Hawkingbird]

23 minutes ago, DarthEnderX said:

Instead of being separate characters, their Orochi versions should have been, like, install supers for the regular versions.

 

That wouldn't work. Install supers function as a power up state. Seeing how the Orochi are given new move sets that wouldn't be practical. It's not like they gain an extra move or two.

[Darc_Requiem]

36 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

That wouldn't work. Install supers function as a power up state. Seeing how the Orochi are given new move sets that wouldn't be practical. It's not like they gain an extra move or two.

Yeah especially with Yashiro and Shermie. Yashiro and Shermie's Orochi variation are completely difference archetypes. Yashiro is a brawler. Orochi Yashiro is a grappler. Shermie is a grappler. Orochi Shermie projectile zoner. 

[CESTUS III]

18 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Yeah especially with Yashiro and Shermie. Yashiro and Shermie's Orochi variation are completely difference archetypes. Yashiro is a brawler. Orochi Yashiro is a grappler. Shermie is a grappler. Orochi Shermie projectile zoner. 

yeah, there i would apply what i was saying before 

 

"an alternative solution would be make them have a well known imput, like push start on some particular char slot to make appear alt version or shit like that, but don't eat a slot" 

 

Would be fair approach for all derivative shit tbh

[Hawkingbird]

5 hours ago, CESTUS III said:

yeah, there i would apply what i was saying before 

 

"an alternative solution would be make them have a well known imput, like push start on some particular char slot to make appear alt version or shit like that, but don't eat a slot" 

 

Would be fair approach for all derivative shit tbh

Doing it that way doesn't change anything. Needing a code to access a new character adds complication where it isn't needed. This method works better for a variant that's 1:1 with the original with mild changes. Like Yang in new generation. US agent, Red Venom, Sunburned Sakura, in the old marvel games.

 

Compared to that Orochis are entirely different characters.

[Chun-Li_Forever]

 

[ShockDingo]

I was just about to post this lol. I LOVE these! not only are they charming examples of the character's personalities, but it's showing Capcom is in a good place with SF, to be able to just have some solid FUN with the series again. If Q or G are in this, I'd love to see what wacky animations they'd have for the walk down the runway and what options they'd have for the game face. With Q, you'd have to get creative, but it could be fun.

[Daemos]

The level of detail in these intros is very surprising. Each stage is going have one that is unique to it. We also get to see the characters exhibit personality traits many of them wouldn't normally (a performance for an audience of street onlookers directly).

[DarthEnderX]

I like how, while everyone else plays to the crowd on their way into the ring, Juri just mad dogs her opponent.

[Dracu]

8 hours ago, ShockDingo said:

I was just about to post this lol. I LOVE these! not only are they charming examples of the character's personalities, but it's showing Capcom is in a good place with SF, to be able to just have some solid FUN with the series again. If Q or G are in this, I'd love to see what wacky animations they'd have for the walk down the runway and what options they'd have for the game face. With Q, you'd have to get creative, but it could be fun.

With Q they should just have him miss the walkdown. Lights go out. And he just comes out on the VS screen.

[CESTUS III]

Zangief MUST enter the ring wearing the red cape

 

Also never happening now that he's so human (in SF6 seems even more), but Blanka entering locked inside a cage would have been awesome too

 

 

 

[Shakunetsu]

that's as dated like Sagat being fiery mad and out for revenge against Ryu.

 

Blanka is never seen as wild as like it was back then that needs a cage. 

 

Blanka is more casual nowadays and okay with people around putting him back in the cage is just gonna cause complication on the establish plot ever since Alpha 3.

 

And nowadays there are more weird creatures in SF universe that roam their world compare when Blanka was imagined in SF2 anime movie

[Daemos]

18 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

Also never happening now that he's so human (in SF6 seems even more), but Blanka entering locked inside a cage would have been awesome too

It can only work if it is an act, as in Blanka is being a showman and tongue in cheek. But I think with the success of Blanka-chan, we are past it. He'll probably pull a Johnny Cage and sign autographs at this point.

It will be interesting how they handle the more serious characters' entrances into these streets. Like Bison, Vega, Gill, Urien, etc. These settings are a little too plebeian for their likes...