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The Street Fighter V Thread

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, ZioSerpe said:

How? 

I nearly only have fun doing battle lounges and even there being constantly jab AAd by @TWINBLADES_SRK Kolin brings high levels of sodium chloride.

I honestly can't remember having fun in ranked and casuals outside of the early Sagat matches. 

I honestly think that SFV and DBFZ are the least fun games I own. 

I also think I would deeply enjoy Tekken if I got into it, but it has a really obnoxious cast, there isn't a single character I find appealing. 

So find myself still here hoping that ArcSys finally hits it big or that SNK delivers a KoF that has Angel in it and doesn't make me wanna commit sudoku because of shitty graphics. 

SamSho looks legit, but I literally live in KoF town, and I doubt it will pick up here

Its sort of a lemons into lemonade situation.

 

There are some serious things about SFV I don't like. But I'm also still new-ish to playing fighting games online so most of my enjoyment comes from trying to get actually better (not "SFV online" better) and I'm having a decent enough time with that. It is also one of (the?) 2D fighter with the biggest "pick up and play" player base which is another reason I keep booting it up. I know I could probably get more out of UNIST if I did more with the discord for it but sometimes I just want to fire a game up and play some games (even at the cost of playing online randos).

 

Also every once in a rare while I'll get a Battle Lounge with a decent-to-good player with a stable connection and I have a legit great time with it. But there are a lot of rollbacky fights against online psychopaths to get there.

 

Part of it is taking the game not seriously (which can sort of conflict with trying to focus in and improve) because there are plenty of bullshitty things. Also where I can see the game becoming a drag: the main thing to do is play Ranked, but playing Ranked especially leads to running into the most irritating tendencies in this game over and over. And even when things are going well its a grind so you have to subject yourself to a lot of it.

 

Its weird and I try not to think too much about it and just play the game and enjoy my time. Sometimes I start to spiral out and eventually just end up doing something like playing Into the Breach for like a week straight. 🙂

 

KoF is very much its own style of game so yeah SamSho probably isn't going to convert many but they are both big SNK franchises so you never know. If nothing else it seems like whenever SNK gets around to KoF15 it should look a far sight better than 14.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

Good shit fam. 👍

 

When fighting Cody with Laura I approach the fight sort of like a better Ryu, with the upsides being that his fireball being slower start up allows her to counter it better with Claps or EX Bolts, and that he has no real reversal. His VSkill can work similarly (and is a great reason to not get jumpy) but Laura's pressure tends to be tight enough that he can't really mash through it. And if you get a read that they like to try to VSkill to beat throws you can just pause a bit them blow them up for it.

 

It is one of those "maul or be mauled" fights because both characters can put the screws to the other if they get momentum going. Don't be afraid to VRev EX Zonk but try to do it early.

 

My last Ranked session was Abigail, Ryu, Ryu, Nash, Abigail from what I remember. I definitely remember there were two Ryus and two Abis in there. I always second guess myself when I do well and I thought "well maybe I just got a bunch of easy match ups" but at least for me those two aren't particularly easy with Laura. Been running into an oddly high # of Nashes lately across all online (as in > 0).

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ZioSerpe Level 10

ZioSerpe

Posted
Posted

So, I am currently playing Chun on an alt account, but now I am considering making yet another account to learn a new character

In contention we have

Mika, whom I only need to learn Oki for

Menat, whom would be the number one pick but I feel like I don't have the time to learn her.

Blanka, because he intrigues me

Fang, he also interests me but much less.

Ken, he looks cool and fun 

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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Posted

From that list I'd recommend Ken and Mika from my personal experience.

 

Menat is fun to lab but in practice she is a super boring character if you don't like needling your opponent to death and playing keepaway.

 

Mika is really fun to steamroll people with and her oki is pretty straightforward if that is all you need to learn.

 

Ken is probably the highest in terms of fun factor and output - not in terms of raw efficacy necessarily but if you're on point with him you're getting satisfying confirms, CH combos, and extended combo sequences in general - but I couldn't hang with him. I feel like to be really good with him you need to be skilled with stuff I haven't been naturally good at so I bailed.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I'm guessing @GetTheTables will call his dojo Team 3D  😉

If I had my way I'd form a Dojo straight up called the Dudley Boyz and everyone would have thematic names. I would become BFFs with whomever changed their CFN to "D-Von" and we would attend tournaments just on the off chance we could have the player listings one day read:

 

D-Von

GetTheTables

 

Its the little things that make life worth living.

 

There are a lot of great wrestling stable names that would make for good dojo names too. Unfortunately Froz is likely gonna make the SRK one so it will be called "CodyYaoiEnthusiasts" or something like that.

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  • 2 weeks later...
GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

Been awhile, time for a :tldr: SFV post:

 

Managed to get in a grip of games over the holiday weekend (thanks US fed job!) Paid the iron price for a bunch of dojo points - glory to Susgang - and the climb up Ranked is real. I feel like actually holding SG once I get there is going to be tricky but I'm doing well enough against the myriad Golds and Super Golds I've been running into that it'll work out. Just gotta keep plugging away at it (though I'm splitting focus when SCVI comes out to see how that game feels to play).

 

Highlights:


 - The other Laura player I ran into that fucking rage quit on me in a Casual match during the second game. I've run into plenty of rage quits and 1-and-dones in my time online but usually in the mirror everyone knows the score. Ran into him later that day and he opted to suicide the match and bounce. Damn dude. Everyone else already hates Laura, we can't have infighting. 😦

 

 - Threw Menat into some Casuals and it went about as well as I expected. 🙂 Got mauled but it was a good learning experience if I'm going to play her more. The one set I did win with her was against an Akuma player I had sort of mauled earlier that day. I managed to pull the set back 2-1 and he seemed to be quite frustrated by the second game. Dude was missing inputs and everything. Few things as sad to an Akuma player than beefing up air fireballs left and right.

 

 - So many fucking neutral jumps. I understand it in "neutral" as a lot of people in the Gold ranks are dashing in or using forward moving specials/normals to get in, though it is still funny to see them chain like 3-4 together and fuckin' Kriss Kross for a bit. 


But what sort of kills me are how many people do it on my wake up. Again, I think I get the base reasoning - a lot of people still wake up tech/throw here - but it ends up just being a shitty throw bait that is easy to anti air. 
I can clearly remember at least 2-3 rounds and therefore games and therefore sets I won that I probably should have lost because the other guy had me dead to rights in the corner but opted to neutral jump and landed himself in a post-AA mix up into death.


Laura has a good/great AA normal for dealing with neutral jumps so maybe I'm spoiled. Just a funny phenomenon that I keep seeing over and over.

 

 - Online Alex continues to be my bane. Every time I feel like I have a good plan they throw another strain of crazy at me and I die. I think I am getting better at it overall though and the big takeaway is that I need to work on my defense especially in pressure situations. Most of the time I'm dying due to bad defensive choices and that carries over to other match ups so its a good thing to work on.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've been having an interesting time with SFV. For reasons I can't explain, I can't win on PS4 to save my life. I've dropped from Ultra Silver to Ultra Bronze. The most maddening thing about it is this. I'm still Ultra Silver on PC. I got within one win of hitting gold before dropping back to 3760. 

 

I've tried switching characters. I've tried warming up in casuals before touching ranked. No dice. I was getting bodied on PS4 by Silver and Ultra Bronze players. I hop on PC, play three gold players and go 1-2, 2-1, and 2-0. It literally makes no sense.

 

I know some people will say, maybe it's the additional input delay. That hasn't been an issue before. Usually I play better on PS4. I get matches more quickly so it is easier to build momentum. On PC matches are less frequent. Usually it makes it harder to get into a rhythm. Not lately. I've had slumps before but they were universal. Not confined to one platform. I'm playing better players on PC and winning. I'm playing people worse than me on PS4 and losing. I'm stumped by this. :tldr:

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

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Posted

Well if input lag is the culprit it seems like that may be getting addressed pretty soon:

 

 

I've only ever played on PS4 so I can't speak to whatever differences may be throwing you off. I do know that there are enough disparities that people do dislike hopping from one platform to another so maybe you are feeling what they are.

 

I'm happy to jaw over replays and stuff like that but since you're doing well on PC the solution may just be to keep plugging away on that platform and maybe PS4 gets normalized to however the PC is performing. Again hoping that the 10/23 updates does just that.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, GetTheTables said:

Well if input lag is the culprit it seems like that may be getting addressed pretty soon:

 

 

I've only ever played on PS4 so I can't speak to whatever differences may be throwing you off. I do know that there are enough disparities that people do dislike hopping from one platform to another so maybe you are feeling what they are.

 

I'm happy to jaw over replays and stuff like that but since you're doing well on PC the solution may just be to keep plugging away on that platform and maybe PS4 gets normalized to however the PC is performing. Again hoping that the 10/23 updates does just that.

Honestly, I think it's mental. I think I'm pressing too hard. I just need to relax.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Honestly, I think it's mental. I think I'm pressing too hard. I just need to relax.

I hear ya. The mental aspect plays a big part. 

 

Like if you think you're doing worse on PS4, it can throw you off and end up making you play worse due to anxiety, a desire to compensate, etc. Not saying you are doing that but I get what you mean.

 

I had a sort of shitty session on Saturday. Felt kind of off the whole time and ended on a really shitty note - lost a set to an Akuma that I felt like I should be able to clean up, and I had lost to him earlier making it that much saltier. Going into the game on Sunday I had a lot of bad vibes about playing in general. I was able to shake 'em off and have a good overall session but it could have just as easily gone the other way.

 

And every time I fire up Ranked part of me always gets nervous about scrubbing right the fuck out and just chaining together losses for however long I play. I don't know that sensation will ever go away - part of it is a memory of when I first started trying to play online and that is exactly what happened and part of it is the desire to not have that happen again, which is the thing that keeps me practicing and learning.

 

The practice pays off as my sessions have generally evened out but more importantly I feel much better equipped to identify things that are giving me problems and come up with solutions. Even if I don't implement it during that game/set/whatever, I can work on it in the future and enjoy the benefits moving forward. So even when I get my ass kicked it isn't nearly as unpleasant as it was before.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)

I posted this a while back on SRK1. Figured it could get us talking. These were my ideas for buffs to make Ryu better. I made a few additions. V-Skill changes, and an additional ability to V-Trigger 2.  Anyone have buff ideas for some of the weaker characters that they would like to share? Thoughts on this scrubs Ryu ideas?

 

Ryu - Season 4 Suggestions

 

Normals

 

St. LP,MP,HP - Hitbox Extended Forward (1 square on training stage)
Cr. LP,MP - Hitbox Extended Forward (1 square on training stage)
Cr. LK,MK,HK - Hitbox Extended Forward (1 square on training stage)
St.MK - Hitbox Extended Forward (2 squares on training stage),Advantage on hit increased from +2 to +3

 

Specials

 

LP,MP,HP Hadoken

  •  Overall Frames Reduced from 47F to 44F
  •  Advantage on hit increased from -1 to 0
  • Disadvantage on Block decreased from -6 to -3
  • EX Hadoken Overall Frames Reduced from 42F to 40F

LK,MK,HK Jodan Sokutou Geri  

  • Hitbox Extended Forward (1 square on training stage)
  • Disadvantage on block reduced from -16F to -8F

V-Skill

 

Mind's Eye -

  • Startup Reduced from 3F to 2F
  • Recover Reduced from 32F to 16F
  • Recovery No Longer Crush Counterable. 
  • V-Gauge gain on parry increased from 50 to 75
  • MP+MK - Parries High/Airborne Attacks
  • D+MP+MK - Parries Low Attacks

Note: Currently Mind's Eye parries physical attacks all physical attacks. Having it function like a SF3 parry, allows it to be buffed to be more effective. To offset the additional read the Ryu player needs to make. Mind's Eye starts up faster, builds more V-Gauge, recovers fasters, and the recovery is no longer Crush Counterable.

 

V-Triggers

 

V-Trigger 1 (2-Bars)

  •  Duration increased from 1600F to 2000F
  • Idle V-Gauge drain reduced by 50%
  •  LP,MP,HP Hadoken Overall Frames Reduced from 42F to 40F
  •  EX Hadoken Overall Frames Reduced from 40F to 39F
  •  Shoryuken/EX Shoryuken V-Gauge usage reduced from 150 to 0

 

V-Trigger 2 (2-Bars)

  • Number of enhanced parries per V-Trigger increased from 2 to 3
  • Air Tatsu gains the ability to cross up the opponent
  • Mind's Eye can be performed in the Air, cost 1/3 V-Gauge
  • Gains access to new critical art. Shin Shoryuken 3 hits 400 damage (2x150, 1x100)
  • Shin Shoryuken exhausts his entire V-Gauge
  • Shin Shoryuken's performed after enhanced parries are automatically scaled to 60%(240 Damage) no matter the hit count

Side note: I don't pretend to know what i'm talking about. That said, Ryu seems to be the shoto Capcom wants to poke with normals from the outside and space with Hadokens. Problem is he has the same stubby normals as Akuma/Ken and his projectiles aren't that much better. I left his V-Triggers at 2 bars because his parry isn't he most reliable way to build V-Gauge and I feel that remains the case despite my suggested changes to Mind's Eye.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

@Darc_Requiem This will be a fun thing to talk about while we wait for the 10/23 patch. 🙂

 

:tldr:, engage

 

Spoiler

 

I am not a Ryu player (like most folks I've dabbled with him but I'm also one of those people that likes to pick less represented characters so he's not someone I'd stick with) so I can't speak from the perspective of playing him. Like most people I have played against approximately 125,000 Ryus online however so I can at least say from the other side what would make him seem scarier/more effective.

 

With all that in mind (s eye), Ryu in SFV to me has two big issues:

  1. Weakly defined role. I think this is part of the problem with existing through the seasons since the beginning. Originally he was the best you had for defensive, zoning style play but now you have plenty of other, better options. He damn sure isn't a rush down character. And he can't really even hack it as the "jack of all trades, master of none" choice when Necalli and Akuma do that and do it much better.
  2. Poor use of the "core" SFV systems. Mainly CCs and VTs. Neither of his CC buttons lead to much and one even whiffs on crouchers. VT1 is still lame while VT2 seems good but defensive (which I think is fine if it is a match up choice but having your "good" VT be defensive leaves you in a bad spot in this game). VSkill feels weird to balance - Capcom seems really reticent to give chars defensive tech that works earlier than frame 3 without spending meter in this game - and overall not great but I think it is the least of his system based issues.

I think that #1 has led Capcom to balance Ryu weirdly over the years (it must be even stranger for them because they know damn well what the full season is going to look like character wise and how they will play and they need Ryu to somehow fit into that) and #2 is one of the reasons why QoL changes don't really float him up in the tiers like they have with some other characters.

 

I also think there is some pull to the idea that with Ryu being consistently the most popular character online, Capcom isn't super incentivized to buff him up. Clearly people will play him regardless, and they may be worried that if he is too good the online world will just drown in a sea of shotos. If it ain't broke - or if it is broke and people still use it - don't fix it. 

 

I don't agree with that myself but it also wouldn't surprise me if true (similar to why I think Capcom boxed themselves into a corner with FANG and are just willing to let him be "terrible" forever). 

 

But assuming Ryu is going to make it out of the basement, I think you do it by addressing those two points.

 

Give the poor hobo a job and the tools to do it. It is hard because the character pool is much deeper than S1 (and is only going to keep growing,) but if you look at Ken you can see where Capcom has hit on a decent spot for a shoto even with Akuma lording over all shotos like the Mufasa of character balance. 

 

Ken is a very good example of how to make an "aggressive" shoto: still has the defensive options to play the way you expect, but is overall rewarded for being more aggressive, taking more risks, and playing in a bigger, flashier style (fits the character and the intended player) with opportunities for 1-button confirms into great carry/damage and big combos.

 

I have zero idea how to do it mechanically, but tune Ryu to be the counter point to that. A little more range on key pokes (I wouldn't go whole grid spaces but something like his cr.MK could definitely get a range buff and help him,) make at least FB cancels more consistent for him, if not also Jodan cancels to re-establish space, maybe tweak FB frame data a bit in terms of start up/recovery to let him throw plasma without quite as much terror in his heart. Stuff like that.

 

On the scale of defensive characters in this game in my mind you have Guile on one end who can do the job almost entirely with specials and a sprinkling of normals, with Menat on the other hand doing it mostly with normals and sprinkling of specials. Sagat is closer to the Guile end, Falke to the Menat end. Ryu could be the "balanced" one on the defensive spectrum.

 

It feels like they try to build Ryu for this but he falls short. Part of it is that he can't really play well at the range he seems to want to due to his normals being stubby (in a game of stubby normals, to be fair) and that he doesn't get a lot out of it other than slightly chipping the opponent down without really controlling them particularly well (no Sonic Boom lockdown, no amazing normals to poke at with impunity, still has the frame data and hurt boxes on his FBs unlike Sagat to have to really worry about getting CH out of start up). Part of it is that his tool set doesn't back it up super well, and I think the other part of it is that the way they slapped VSystem stuff on him hurts when you get to brass tacks.

 

CCs are one part of it for me. Even in his current incarnation, you usually end up fighting Ryu about where I think he wants you in terms of spacing. However things get funky with how CCs enter into the equation, because once you start getting into that range people start looking to deploy their CC buttons and Ryu's aren't particularly scary. I'm not sure this would ever get any better - I don't see them redoing his CC buttons - so maybe by addressing some attack ranges he can either preemptively poke people out of CC buttons, or he can whiff punish more reliably (especially if special cancels convert more often, making the whiff punishes a little more painful).

 

The VTs are the other part. VT2 seems pretty good, but I personally don't love any of the "counter" based VTs as it is still a hard guess, though at least with Ryu it can have good payout if you have the resources for follow up. VT1 is where I'd throw most of my revisions. I would personally say "fuck it" at this point and make it something closer to Chun's VT1 or Laura's VT1 that is a straight "install" mode with a duration. Retool the fireballs as needed (normal speed, lose the ability to charge) so that he can just live in enhanced mode for awhile and reap some of the benefits.

 

Fighting against it, the biggest issue I see with VT1 is that it seems like it should be the thing to turn the match around but it burns out really fast and is generally not scary while doing so. It is very easy to "just block it out" and even eat the guard break without it really doing a lot. Compare to some other "drain on use" VTs that allow for much stronger pressure (Guile, Akuma), scarier set ups (Guile, Akuma, Abigail), or bigger damage swings (Ken, Akuma, Abigail). 

 

Make VT1 a good, consistent offensive boost- even if you need it to be 3 bars, so long as it is worth it in the end - so that Ryu has the same hat in the VT ring as everyone else with VT2 being a solid other option based on match ups/personal preference. 

 

I honestly don't think you'd need to change a lot to make Ryu a solid mid or even upper-mid character. I don't know that you're ever going to see him buffed/tuned back up to top 5 contention, and like with the grapplers, I think that is probably fine. In a world where every 3rd player is using Ryu he probably shouldn't be on the best end of the game, but he probably also shouldn't be on the worst end either. 

 

The real question to me is if anyone at Capcom sees it as worth bothering. I'm sure they'll at least kick the tires as he is the iconic character for the series so we'll see what they do with him in S4.

 

 

I don't have many other thoughts for other characters. I've been mulling over things I'd like to see for Laura in S4 but its honestly a pretty boring list and I've already typed enough for one day. 🙂 

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted

Alex- Season 4 Suggestions

 

Normals

 

St.,HK - Startup Reduced from 17F to 15F, Disadvantage on hit decreased from -4 to -2
Cr. MP - Startup Reduced from 8F to 6F

Cr. HP - Startup Reduced from 10F to 8F
Cr. MK - Startup Reduced from 9F to 8F, Special Cancellable

Cr. HK - Startup Reduced from 11F to 10F

 

Alex is a neutral based grappler with slow long range pokes. Speed up the start up to make his pokes more effective. Cr. MK is special cancellable as well. There would be no point to use it over Cr. MP otherwise.

 

Unique Attacks

 

F+MP (Overhead)- Advantage on hit increased from +1 to +4

 

This move has starts up in 22F, it should grant more advantage on hit.

 

Throws

 

Face Crush Chop (Forward Throw)

  • Damage increased from 120 to 150
  • Stun increased from 120 to 150

To be blunt, it's absurd for a grapplers throw to do such power damage and stun.

 

Specials

 

LP, MP, HP Power Bomb

  • Startup decreased from 6F to 5F
  • Throw range increased (one square on training stage)

EX Power Bomb

  • Throw Invincible

Alex gains no oki on hit. 6F is too slow. Even with the modest range increase the range is still poor. Especially HP Powerbomb.

 

LP Head Crush

  • Startup decreased from 36F to 33F
  • Lands closer to opponent on hit (one square on training stage)

MP Head Crush

  • Startup decreased from 40F to 36F
  • Lands closer to opponent on hit (one square on training stage)

HP Head Crush

  • Startup decreased from 44F to 40F
  • Lands closer to opponent on hit (one square on training stage)

EX Head Crush

  • Lands closer to opponent on hit (one square on training stage)

This move is similar to Birdies Bull Revenger (Dolphin Dive). However it requires a charge and was slower. Lowered the startup.

 

LK Slash Elbow

  • Forward travel distance increased (two squares on training stage)
  • Lower hurtbox decreased (one square on training stage)
  • Disadvantage on Block decreased from -4 to -2

MK, HK Slash Elbow 

  • Lower hurtbox decreased (one square on training stage

LK Slash Elbow has basically been restored to Season 1.

 

LK Air Knee Smash

  • Startup decreased from 6F to 5F
  • Invincible to Airborne Attacks 5F to 13F

MK Air Knee Smash

  • Startup decreased from 9F to 7F
  • Invincible to Airborne Attacks 7F to 17F

HK Air Knee Smash

  • Startup decreased from 11F to 9F
  • Invincible to Airborne Attacks 9F to 19F

EX Air Knee Smash

  • Startup decreased from 6F to 5F
  • Invincible to Airborne Attacks 1F to 13F
  • Lands closer to opponent on hit (two squares on training stage)

An anti air that only hits airborne opponents should be more effective. It starts up faster and is invincible to airborne attacks after startup.

 

V-Triggers

 

V-Trigger 2

  • Flying DDT hits standing and airborne opponents
  • Choke Sleeper V-Gauge usage decreased from 1000F to 500F

Minor buffs to make this V-Trigger a more viable option. Flying DDT now hits airborne opponents and Choke Sleeper's gauge usage has been halved.

 

Critical Art

 

Heavy Hammer - Damage increased from 340 to 350

 

 

Side note: I'm no expert at this game by any means. When it comes to Alex, Capcom clearly wants him to be a neutral based grappler. Every other grappler's gains advantange after landing their command grab. Alex does not. Landing a Power Bomb resets Alex neutral. The problem is that Capcom slowed down his best long range pokes and saddled him with poor anti airs. Alex players have to rely on hail mary gimmicks to get in for little reward. I think these changes would address that issue and allow the character to be played the way he was designed to be.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I was thinking about Alex changes but Vesper posted a video just about everything I was thinking about he mentioned.  I may compile them anyway but I don't know now. I'm glad you are looking into Laura. I have no idea what to do that would maintain her playstyle and not induce a mound of salt.

I agree with what Vesper said about Alex and Laura relative to how much you're ever likely to see them buffed. Both of those characters (and as he said all grapplers) are built in such a way that tends to piss people off, so the player base at large is usually overall happier if they aren't seen as especially good and/or show up a lot online. And happy players stick around longer to buy more costumes. 😉

 

I can't speak to Alex specifically, but from what little I understand about the character it definitely feels like Capcom has tuned him very, very weirdly. I think they got nervous when he had "good" neutral early on so they shithammered that just so he wouldn't become a problem in tandem with his EX moves and command grabs. Not that any of those are over the top in the grand scheme of the game - I think they just got scared about a character having good neutral and good shenanigans. Which is funny because that's where we are now with the TT anyways. Akuma even has a jumping grab/overhead special move. Suck it Alex! 

 

As for Laura, there is overall not a lot I'd change with her. Similar clause: if she ever ends up strong in the eyes of the meta again, they'll just take a bat to her knees in the x.5 patch or next season. Better to hope for QoL changes that don't rock the boat too much and that changes around her can bolster her up a bit (similar to what happened with Mika this season).

 

My super comprehensive expert Laura player list is:

  • +damage or stun on Sunset Wheel, all versions. My original thought was +10 damage but +whatever stun would also be fine I think, and be a little less explosive. I think one of the reasons the weaker grapplers are where they are this season is because the risk/reward for their command grabs is off. For Laura I think Sunset doing a little more damage (so the cash out is more valuable) or more stun (more general pressure, possibility for big stun combos) would help to make Sunset a more effective tool.
  • Buff st.MK. It is in a weird place now where the payout of the move honestly isn't too bad in a vacuum, but at 7 frames start up it feels just bit too slow to serve as the pre-emptive counter poke button I think it is supposed to be (and it is mechanically sort of overshadowed by cr.HP). Dial it back to 6 frames of start up and even revert the + on hit to +3 if +4 on hit is too gdlk.
  • Buff HP Bolt Charge. This may be a personal thing but it bugs me how often I get trades with this move in "clean" AA situations, usually due to deep hitting jump in buttons. I think adjusting the hurt box would do it, or maybe bringing the hit box up a bit more so it hits earlier? FAT has said forever that it has upper body invincibility (though I don't see it anywhere else) and it shouldn't be as good as a DP but a little more consistency would be nice. Fun dumb bonus thought: break EX Bolt Charge into LP+MP = existing EX, MP+HP = EX HP Bolt with air invincibility.
  • Buff VT2. I don't know that you'll ever knock VT1 off it's throne, and that is fine. VT2 is one of those VTs that is going to be more niche regardless of what you do with it, but it would be nice if it was at least a good fit for that niche. As is, it doesn't work as a defensive VT: the dodge becomes invincible too slowly to really work as a counter, the grab comes out too slowly to be used on its own (especially since you have to do it from Sway), and the projectile dodge property isn't amazing, though honestly this is probably the best part. I think this VT is a trap from a design standpoint because I don't know that Capcom would want to give an up-close pressure monster like Laura a good-to-great defensive VT. Plus it is only 2 bars. So speeding up the dodge may not be in the cards. What may be a good alternative is to allow Laura to raw dawg use Shock Choke (B/F+HP+HK) as a slower-but-higher-payout command grab. Just spitballing; I fully expect this VT to remain in it's bleh state going into S4.

That's pretty much it. In general I think Laura's design limits how much she will ever really get buffed, which is fine. I'll happily take sanding off some rough edges.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

I had a similar thought initially but I think I understand why it is what it is. 

 

Laura isn't really someone who is supposed to control the neutral or even have a particularly amazing AA. Compare that to shotos/shoto spinoffs which are more based around that and the DP is like "the" AA move. Plus the input for it is slightly harder to do (ignoring shortcuts)  so its a little harder to react with. 

 

All in all I can see why HP Bolt doesn't have air invincibility. It still does good damage for an AA, leads to oki (not great oki, but still oki), and due to it being a hit-grab doesn't have the weird "fall out" issues that DPs/EX DPs have every once in a blue moon. Plus it has a really satisfying *smack* sound when you land it. 🙂 

 

Main thing I'm hoping for is a little more consistency with it vs some of the lower hitting jump in attacks. Though honestly I'd be shocked if anything changed with HP Bolt in S4. When it comes to Laura I'm expecting them to either leave her mostly untouched or tune  weird stuff like they do sometimes when it seems like they don't know or care how to balance a character (usually due to them having a contentious design; see FANG).

 

Actual Laura S4 changes:

 - cr. MP: collision box adjusted

 - st.LP: collision box adjusted

 - cr.MK: now 0 on block

 - cr.HK: now -13 on block

 

Laura buffs!....?....... 🙃

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted

I played Laura season 1 but I don't really know enough to hazard a guess as far as buffs. They've nerfed her shenanigans but didn't really give her anything in return. I agree that VT2 should be buffed. It should be the V-Trigger Laura players go to match ups like Guile and Sagat. As a Kolin player eventhough VT1 is worse over all. It's better in some match ups. Zangief and Abigail come to mind. VT2 should have a similar utility for Laura.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

Yeah and I feel like VT2 is actually pretty close to that. I don't know that anything is going to push it "over" VT1 - I think its just easier to go offensive than to try and pull off defensive reads as your comeback mechanic - but even now there are match ups where I think it could be useful. Its just a little too finicky at the moment.

 

Upside is that since VTs are a little more prominent as character features, the over-under on VT2 getting buffed (or at least tuned) ain't too bad.

 

Also fun fact: VT2 fucking rules in the Silver/early Gold levels. One thing that VT2 is fantastic as is fast, near flawless 2 button AA with great payout. Its a VT that you can get a lot of mileage out of if your opponent is jumpy and since it is two bars you can get to it faster and start choking frogs. 🚫 ✈️ 🚫

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)

So apparently, for PS4, the update patch has jnput delay down to 4.41F and improved the stability from 40% to 77%. For reference the PC version is 3.42F and 97% stability. The minimum gram reduction is about 1F but the stability is a big deal. Instead of inputs fluctuating between 5-7F they are now always more than 4F but less than 5F.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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  • 4 weeks later...
GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, misterBee said:

FUCK I'VE BEEN DISCOVERED.

 

But no there's a very specific reason I'm doing this.

 

Sigh...if you guys want to play some time this week let me know.  😢

 

I feel dirty.

Haha I figured it was for a pet project. Didn't mean to blow up your spot. I didn't even go looking for it; PS4 was just like "HEY THIS GUY YOU KNOW IS PLAYING THIS GAME YOU PLAY CHECK IT OUT". 

 

I'll be around this week in general. Visiting my parents tomorrow for the holiday but not a lot after that. I'm bound and determined to dust off UNIST sometime soon too.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted (edited)

The Kolin Ada costume is pure fire. I actually really like all the RE costumes, though I only bought the Kolin one.

 

I also really like dirtbag Santa for Cody for some reason. Next year Sagat better get the Santa treatment. They could even put antlers on his tiger.

 

EDIT: I forgot something that dawned on me when I was practicing with Kolin in the Ada costume. If you pick Color 5 and then pop her into her alt outfit she kinda sorta looks like B. Jenet.

 

Actually another thing that dawned on me because that outfit has no sleeves is that Kolin is fucking cut. She has better arms than most of the men in the cast.

Edited by GetTheTables
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted

Got bored. I don't play this character, so I'm not going to pretend to be an expert at her flaws but I figured I'd give this a shot anyway.

 

Sakura - Season 4 Suggestions

 

Normals

 

St. MP - Hitbox Extended Forward and Downward (1 square on training stage)

St. MK- Hitbox Extended Forward (1 square on training stage)

St. HK - Recovery Frames Reduced from 26F to 23F, Advantage on hit increased from +1 to +3

DF+HK - Recovery Frames Reduced from 22F to 20F, Advantage on hit increased from +3 to +4
Cr. HP - Recovery Frames Reduced from 26F to 20F

 

Specials

 

LP Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 17F to 15F, Total Frames Reduced from 49F to 47F

MP Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 17F to 15F, Total Frames Reduced from 51F to 48F

HP Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 17F to 15F, Total Frames Reduced from 53F to 49F

LP,MP,HP Hadoken

  • Advantage on hit increased from -2 to -1
  • Disadvantage on Block decreased from -8 to -6

Charged Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 41F to 36F, Total Frames Reduced from 71F to 66F
EX Hadoken- Startup Reduced from 14F to 13F Overall Frames Reduced from 45F to 44F

Tengyo Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 17F to 15F

Charged Tengyo Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 39F to 35F, Total Frames Reduced from 75F to 70F

EX Tengyo Hadoken - Startup Reduced from 15F to 14F, Total Frames Reduced from 45F to 44F

LK Shunpukyaku - Startup Reduced from 17F to 12F, Advantage on hit increased from +1 to +2

MK Shunpukyaku - Startup Reduced from 21F to 15F,  Disadvantage on block decreased from -6 to -4, Damage increased from 70 to 80

HK Shunpukyaku - Startup Reduced from 24F to 18F

EX Shunpukyaku - Final Hit Launches the opponent into a juggle state

 

V-Skill

 

Harukaze - Total Frames Reduced from 54F to 49F, Landing Recovery reduced from 15F to 12F

 

 

V-Triggers

 

V-Trigger 1 (2-Bars)

 

Duration increased from 2000F to 2400F

Hadoken V-Gauge usage decreased from 500F to 400F

EX Hadoken- Startup Reduced from 13F to 12F Overall Frames Reduced from 44F to 43F

Hogasho - Startup Reduced from 21F to 18F, Damage increased from 60 to 90, Stun increased from 120 to 150

 

V-Trigger 2 (2-Bars)

 

Duration remains 3500F

Shouoken  V-Gauge usage reduced from 1000F to 700F

Shunpukyaku V-Gauge usaged reduced from 1000F to 700F

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)

TB2i1HNaRUSMeJjy1zjXXc0dXXa_!!475740081.

Everyone has ADS!

ADS ADS ADS!

ADS ADS ADS ADS ADS ADS!

Everyone has ADS!

And so this is the end of gaming

And every loading screen is full of ADS

It took from us our passion

My favorite game

The pillar of the FGC

Well I'm gonna march on Osaka

Lead what's left of the Ryu mains

There's still hope fo of all of us

I'll make them take away the ADS

Even G (ADS!)

And Cody (ADS!)

Ryu-san and Sakura along with Karin (ADS!)

The pros and the scrubs

And the steam monsters

Everyone has ADS!
That's Mika and Nadeshiko too
Including Bison and Shadoloo
Come on everyone we got shilling to do
We gotta get this all Fight Money, everyone has
ADS! ADS! ADS!  ADS! ADS! ADS! ADS! ADS!
ADS! ADS! ADS!

 

Oh and CPT Last Chance Qualifier is going on.

 

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

Fucking Kage

 

For as much as I didn't want to see a character like that its a good audience play by Capcom. E. Ryu was and is popular so even "totally not E. Ryu" E. Ryu is going to get some people excited. Plus he looks like a training mode monster which is something your average player loves.

 

Laura and Kolin came out in pretty dang good shape following the S4 patch notes. Keeping my head down until 4.5 but it should be a fun couple of months until then at least.

 

Hopefully we'll get more general S4 character news soon.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, GetTheTables said:

Fucking Kage

 

For as much as I didn't want to see a character like that its a good audience play by Capcom. E. Ryu was and is popular so even "totally not E. Ryu" E. Ryu is going to get some people excited. Plus he looks like a training mode monster which is something your average player loves.

 

Laura and Kolin came out in pretty dang good shape following the S4 patch notes. Keeping my head down until 4.5 but it should be a fun couple of months until then at least.

 

Hopefully we'll get more general S4 character news soon.

How good do you think Matsuda sway will be? Target Combo into V-Skill seems sweet plus they buffed the duration of VT1. The three characters I've used most Kolin, Alex, and Laura have made out fine.

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

How good do you think Matsuda sway will be? Target Combo into V-Skill seems sweet plus they buffed the duration of VT1. The three characters I've used most Kolin, Alex, and Laura have made out fine.

Matsuda Sway is always going to be a little funky because it has the same callout factor of any "big" defense thing in this game - Ryu VT2, Kolin's counters, Karin VT2, Vega VT2 as a counter - combined with the fact that it isn't a "catch". You have to dodge whatever you thought was coming and then be able to time the follow up to grab them correctly. I don't think that is good or bad - its harder to do but it has a pretty good payoff and its a relatively potent defensive mechanic to give a grappler. 

 

All that said it now only having effectively 2 frames of start up is probably a really nice swing in its utility. You can dodge through a lot of common blockstrings with that and it makes it that much easier to last second dodge twitch attacks.

 

I think the biggest thing is how much they buffed the grab range. One of the problems I had with that VT is that even if you were on point with your dodges the range on the grab was so pitifully short that you couldn't realistically use it as a counter attack. If it has enough range now to actually dodge and grab some attacks, great. Then it would still require a good bit of training to be able to use reliably (though broadly you can twitch through stuff you'd normally be stuck blocking) but it could be worth it defensively, especially in some match ups. I'm gonna check the grab range later today.

 

The buff to VT1 timer is hilarious. It lasts legit like 50 seconds now.

 

TC into VSkill seems like it could be kinda good for VT1. You can confirm HP CC xx Avante, TC xx VSkill. It is less damage and stun than an alternative but the KD on the VSkill in that situation still seems to give good oki and you net a little over 2/3 of a V meter from it. Do that once or twice and you can probably hit VT1 early enough in the match where that enhanced timer is going to come into play. Also could be an interesting distinction between the VT - VT1 incentivizes going for the V gauge whereas with VT2 you can probably just go for the damage.

 

I'm legit excited to see if they reverted her st.MP to 3.0. That was a godly AA button. Also the line about giving Bolt Charge input priority over Thunder Clap is really interesting to me: it may mean that you can use HP Bolt against cross-up attempts (where it would work decently well considering they are usually more shallow hits). Previously if you tried to cross-cut HP Bolt you would get Clap but it just might work now. Another thing I need to check later today.

 

Overall Laura got some good tuning up. Nothing crazy but I think between those buffs and the general meta changes she'll be in an alright spot for the 3 or so months of 4.0. We will see how 4.5 treats her. 😉 

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GetTheTables Level 8

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

@GetTheTables Just take the shortcut and watch what Idom and Shakz do. I think that V-Skill combo and the longer duration VT1 are going help Laura out. Especially with Cammy nerfs and Guile Sonic Boom nerfs.

Oh I definitely will. Idom is my spirit guide anymore ever since 801 Strider bounced on the char middle or so of this year.

 

Idom was already messing around with using VSkill as an ender for Twist Barrage. The buffed V meter gain should help that out too so Laura may be able to feed herself V meter in a couple of decent ways now. Definitely looking forward to seeing how this stuff gets applied. There was a guy, Rocwell I think it is, from the Laura discord who was already working VT2 last season.

 

Kolin is also really well off now too. Gonna keep plugging away with her though that may take a backseat to enjoying the bonita buffs for the now. 😄 

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