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The Street Fighter V Thread

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

Wow, that's really good advice. I never thought of using the Shield ever before. Pretty cool concept. Thoughts on the Alienware Steam machine? Wouldn't that be more powerful?

Probably? I don’t know much about it.

 

I determine that I only really needed to emulate up to N64, and anything beyond that take a beefy computer... and also doesn’t work super great.

 

so basically, the Alienware thing might be even better... but the shield was more than enough so I went with it.

 

i also have a raspberry pi 3, which works great for 2D emulation.  Don’t know if the pi4 can now handle 3D without issue. I don’t recommend the Pi over the shield though, too much fussing and too many limitations. It is cheaper though.

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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, FlyingVe said:

Probably? I don’t know much about it.

 

I determine that I only really needed to emulate up to N64, and anything beyond that take a beefy computer... and also doesn’t work super great.

 

so basically, the Alienware thing might be even better... but the shield was more than enough so I went with it.

 

i also have a raspberry pi 3, which works great for 2D emulation.  Don’t know if the pi4 can now handle 3D without issue. I don’t recommend the Pi over the shield though, too much fussing and too many limitations. It is cheaper though.

The Alienware thing is pretty ancient, but it's hilariously adorable as a concept. I'm surprised they thought it'd sell. In any case, I think it might handle up to PS2, but that's it.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Dayaan said:

The Alienware thing is pretty ancient, but it's hilariously adorable as a concept. I'm surprised they thought it'd sell. In any case, I think it might handle up to PS2, but that's it.

Technically the shield runs PS2 emulators, and dolphin.

 

but like on PC how well they work varies wildly depending on the game and configuration. Which is why I don’t really count it as “supported”.

 

also, most emulation is CPU bound so that’s the main thing you need.

Edited by FlyingVe
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

I was just taking a look at these... 

 

Can I legit put this inside of a fightstick??? It has a 20 pin harness. Can I essentially use it as a PCB? Cause that could be the move

Honestly, I dunno, that’s out of my depth.

 

with the right know  how you can do a lot of crazy stuff with a Pi.

 

Im good with computers... but not that good.

 

sorry.

Edited by FlyingVe
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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

S'all good, homie! I just found out something to ask for for christmas. The 8 gig is only $75, and if I could essentially make a retro-fighter set-up with one of my fighsticks, I have a new project.

 

You've inspired me!

Funny Thank You GIF by MOODMAN

I know some people make beefier sticks to have whole systems inside. Plug a stick to a CRT and Sailor Moon pops up.

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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

Exactly. Plus, It looks like it would be hella easy to make a tether so I could plug another stick into my stick so I could do 2 player. 

Spin, don't read this next part, you gotdang minor

...

...

I think they call this docking

It's more complex than that too. You might need cooling down there. Better safe than sorry. Remember to always use protection.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Dayaan said:

It's more complex than that too. You might need cooling down there. Better safe than sorry. Remember to always use protection.

Shouldn’t need active cooling for a raspberry pi. 
 

I think as long as you have any airflow you should be fine.

 

Regarding the 8gig. I will say again, many of the things we are talking about are CPU tasks, so throwing RAM at the problem won’t really help.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

More visual evidence no chip killing is terrible 

I want to go on record and say that I don’t think no chip kills is an inherently bad idea.

 

however the game needs to be built with that in mind. In SFV it just seems tacked on, and it disproportionately hurts lots of characters for not real gain.

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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

I want to go on record and say that I don’t think no chip kills is an inherently bad idea.

 

however the game needs to be built with that in mind. In SFV it just seems tacked on, and it disproportionately hurts lots of characters for not real gain.

DBFZ has no chip kills and it works well for the game. SFV should have had it.

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misterBee Level 19

misterBee

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, KingTubb said:

Video game publishers make no sense to me. We have streaming services for movies, tv, and even video games, but you haven't seen a single publisher go this route. 

 

I'd pay $10 a month to have access to a robust back catalogue to Capcom games that I could download and play. 

As @Hawkingbirdmentioned, EA Access does this.  Xbox Game Pass also does this.  In fact, Xbox Game Pass comes bundled with EA Play atm.

 

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-game-pass/games

 

If you have a PC or Xbox there's a pretty sizeable collection of games you can access for a low monthly fee, just like you're requesting.

 

CVS2 is already playable on PS4 as a PS2 digital release.  Sadly it has input lag. 🙃

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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

EA Play only covers current generation. It doesn't include titles from PS2 era and earlier. What Tubb is asking for is e.g. Sega Ultimate Collection but available in one spot as a streaming service. All the retro shit.

It's not going to be worth it for a lot publishers to add their old library. It will mean porting or remastering their backlog to work with whatever the new thing is. They likely need dedicated teams to make that work. 

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, PVL_93_RU said:

EA Play only covers current generation. It doesn't include titles from PS2 era and earlier. What Tubb is asking for is e.g. Sega Ultimate Collection but available in one spot as a streaming service. All the retro shit.

EA play has OG Xbox games on it.

 

I was playing black the other day. The problem is PlayStation has no BC solution.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

I want to go on record and say that I don’t think no chip kills is an inherently bad idea.

 

however the game needs to be built with that in mind. In SFV it just seems tacked on, and it disproportionately hurts lots of characters for not real gain.

I like the way MK11 and GG Xrd do it. You can avoid chip out but it costs meter, and once you’re out gg. 
 

In SFV it’s just another thing that hurts zoning and promotes fake comebacks. Block special attacks (and too many normals) has consequences, until you’re a breath away from death and suddenly it doesn’t anymore.  

I think a good compromise would be EX moves chip killing. Costs resources and depending on the situation it can give the pixel player a decent amount of time to mount a comeback without completely removing the element of danger. I think the only character who wouldn’t be able to is Gief, but he can’t chip kill rn either. 

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted

I generally really like the MK games approach to chip damage.

 

also, if you are going to make chip a real thing, I would make it greater. In a lot of games nowadays chip is so inconsequential it doesn’t really matter.

 

the big problem with anything specific to SFV is that the game has so many ill-fitting or half thought out mechanics, that tweaking one thing can cause everything else to implode.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, FlyingVe said:

also, if you are going to make chip a real thing, I would make it greater. In a lot of games nowadays chip is so inconsequential it doesn’t really matter.

 

Chip in DBZ is probably the biggest reason I don’t play it. It’s so low that it doesn’t matter for 95% of moves and you can’t chip kill anyone. (Then after you earn your kill you can’t even mix/pressure the incoming character...)

4 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

 

 

the big problem with anything specific to SFV is that the game has so many ill-fitting or half thought out mechanics, that tweaking one thing can cause everything else to implode.

My biggest issues with SF4 and 5 come from Capcom implementing shitty copies of mechanics from other games.

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GetTheTables Level 9

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted

The no-chip in SFV combines with V Triggers to lead to so many comeback rounds I legit sort of forgot what a real comeback looked like. SFV isn't unique with that - a lot of modern FGs have tried to slap in comeback mechanics with varying level of them being a pain in the ass - but it sticks out in this game more than most for me. 

 

Every time a commentator uses the phrase "magic pixel" with this game I die a little inside. 

 

Watching +R games from the rollback beta sorta shocked me out of that coma.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted

I know I’ve said this 100 times (and you are all probably tired of it), but, comeback mechanics actually remove comebacks, not enable them.

 

the instant you start heavily rewarding failure, suddenly a situation where you are behind is no longer a disadvantage. 
 

if you punch G enough that he gets VT, is he really behind? In fact the odds are in his favor, which means at that point it’s the “winning” player that needs to make a comeback.

 

in short, fuck revenge meters. 

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, GetTheTables said:

a lot of modern FGs have tried to slap in comeback mechanics with varying level of them being a pain in the ass - but it sticks out in this game more than most for me. 

 

What I don’t get is you only see this super heavy handed approach in video games as far as I’m aware, with FGs probably being the worst offender. 
 

You watch NBA games and the net doesn’t magically get bigger for the team down 20 with a minute to go. 
 

You watch the 400m relay during the Olympics and the team in last place doesn’t get to run across the grass inside the ring. 
 

You play chess and the player down 5 pieces doesn’t get to make two moves in a row when put in check. 
 

I’ve never watched a single match of MMA or any other combat sport but I’m 100% sure they don’t hand the guy who’s one jab from the ICU a gun. 

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

a lot of modern FGs have tried to slap in comeback mechanics with varying level of them being a pain in the ass

I think Tekken's is alright. Ultras were more or less the same thing, right?

And that weird "you're better when your health is hear" mechanic is Garou is another comeback mechanic if you put it in your last 3rd of health. 

 

Anyone have any examples of games that do "revenge" mechanics well? 

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

I’ve been thinking lately of if/when I get my PS5, jail breaking my PS4 to run emulators on it and get any old game on it...

 

id do a shitload of research before doing this of course, but I’d much rather do this then play these old NES to Dreamcast games on my PC.

Just sell the damn PlebStation 4 and get a PC. Stupid. 🤣

 

Seriously, I built my PC with GC/Wii emulating in mind. 7 whole years ago. You can definitely build a decent rig with PS4 money. There's also the bonus of being able to play the lower-end FGs with good netcode like +R, 02UM and 3rd Strike on 30th with us.

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GetTheTables Level 9

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

What I don’t get is you only see this super heavy handed approach in video games as far as I’m aware, with FGs probably being the worst offender. 

I think the motivation comes from player agency and cold hard cash.

 

A lot of the FGs we hold dear are made by big companies. Big companies like to make big money, and while some FGs sell well I'm sure the execs don't GAF about any game that isn't putting up CoD numbers. We've seen a lot of developers try all kinds of shit, not just comeback mechanics, in the hope of broadening the audience, generating more sales, and (probably at least in Capcom) doing more to validate the money the company is throwing at the game.

 

The reality still is though if you make a cool looking fighting game that gets people excited, people will buy it. The actual sauce to selling a FG is hype. If people are excited to play a FG, then they will. Simple as that. Good luck pitching that to higher ups though. Respect to Ono for doing it for as long as he did.

 

SFV has been (rightly IMO) dogged for years for all of its faults, yet it has still sold really well. Absolutely none of that is owing to the quality of the game; all of it is due to the community and CPT driving player desire. Shit I'm still sort of interested in the game and when I think about playing it I get pre-mad. But the hype and community keep drawing me back in, and doubtless will until they sunset this fuckin thing for SF6.

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GetTheTables Level 9

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

I think Tekken's is alright. Ultras were more or less the same thing, right?

And that weird "you're better when your health is hear" mechanic is Garou is another comeback mechanic if you put it in your last 3rd of health. 

 

Anyone have any examples of games that do "revenge" mechanics well? 

Yeah I'm mostly on board with Tekken's. Its not some big blow out thing, unless you choose to spend it that way, and then its gone. 

 

I think Ultras are dumb. Less dumb than the current situation of VTs + meter for days = every round ends in a rocket tag situation, but still dumb.

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
Just now, GetTheTables said:

Yeah I'm mostly on board with Tekken's. Its not some big blow out thing, unless you choose to spend it that way, and then its gone. 

 

I think Ultras are dumb. Less dumb than the current situation of VTs + meter for days = every round ends in a rocket tag situation, but still dumb.

Burst.

 

Burst is arguably the best comeback mechanic ever, and also one of the best mechanics ever full stop.

 

Rapid/Roman Cancel gets an honorable mention.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

What PC are you building with less than $200??? That wouldn't even get you a Chromebook.

200!?

 

Man, that jet engine is still like, between 1.5 and 2k here. 🤣

 

But yeah, let me teach you how PC buying works. It's like buying a car, except you can actually build one yourself.

 

You should never buy a brand new car.

 

But let's ask someone who's more well versed with maple leaf dollars and building PCs.

 

Yo, @EvilCanadianwhat kind of PC can you get with a sold PS4 money? 

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GetTheTables Level 9

GetTheTables

Posted
Posted
Just now, FlyingVe said:

Burst.

 

Burst is arguably the best comeback mechanic ever, and also one of the best mechanics ever full stop.

 

Rapid/Roman Cancel gets an honorable mention.

See I don't even lump that in with comeback mechanics. In my head its actually the best "combo breaker" mechanic ever implemented with some extra flexibility. But I get your point.

 

I guess technically the best comeback mechanic is a well implemented super move system. You build up resources during the match, usually at least partially by getting whumped, and at some point you can cash it out for a big, round shifting effect. But its limited, possibly conflicts with other mechanics (forcing mid-round choices), and isn't something you are seeing more than once a round (give or take, some games handle this in different ways like KoF or Marvel).

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted

I think MK11’s fatal blow comeback mechanic is okay. You can only use it once (on hit) once a match, so there’s a bit of a mind game as to if it’s worthwhile to use that round or not.

 

it also just adds like 20-30% onto your combo (depending on scaling).
 

I do think it’s too safe right now, but they’re adjusting it to have less push back on block for next week’s update

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

See I don't even lump that in with comeback mechanics. In my head its actually the best "combo breaker" mechanic ever implemented with some extra flexibility. But I get your point.

 

I guess technically the best comeback mechanic is a well implemented super move system. You build up resources during the match, usually at least partially by getting whumped, and at some point you can cash it out for a big, round shifting effect. But its limited, possibly conflicts with other mechanics (forcing mid-round choices), and isn't something you are seeing more than once a round (give or take, some games handle this in different ways like KoF or Marvel).

I guess that’s kinda the thing, when it’s done well it doesn’t “feel” like a comeback mechanic at all.

 

Part of the reason we identify them in other games is because of how bolted on and heavy handed they are.

 

Really, I think that’s what a good comeback mechanic is, a good defensive mechanic. Burst gaurentees (with limits) you won’t get shut out of a match, and acts as a one time buffer for more risky options. RC works in much the same way.

 

Edit: I don’t think super bars really came into their own until SF3. In ST they are once a round Hail Mary moves not unlike ultras, and they didn’t change much until SF3. With the important distinction that you were not guaranteed to be able to build a super. The addition of EX moves made super a true resource fully integrated into the match. Other games expanded on this (see RC).

Edited by FlyingVe
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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Volt said:

200!?

 

Man, that jet engine is still like, between 1.5 and 2k here. 🤣

 

But yeah, let me teach you how PC buying works. It's like buying a car, except you can actually build one yourself.

 

You should never buy a brand new car.

 

But let's ask someone who's more well versed with maple leaf dollars and building PCs.

 

Yo, @EvilCanadianwhat kind of PC can you get with a sold PS4 money? 

Really not much. If I were to sell my used PS4 now, yeah, I’d probably get around $200 for it Canadian. Maybe a few bucks more. That’s maybe about the cost of a decent GPU alone. Also, I don’t have anything. No tower, monitor. Not even a keyboard.

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KingTubb Level 11

KingTubb

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Volt said:

1.5 and 2k here

that's still only like $350 max. 

I've talked to a lot of my PC playing friends, and they say if you really get a deal, you can get something "equivalent" to a base PS4 for 4-500 bucks. 

 

I ain't gonna build a PC to get something that's as good as what I got for twice the money. If I'm going to build a PC, I'm gonna drop a Grand and get something that blows current gen out of the water. And with the PS5/SEXBOX dropping, I'd have to drop a pretty penny to get a better machine. 

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

What PC are you building with less than $200??? That wouldn't even get you a Chromebook.

Update: Checked for used PC prices on the same website I used to check used PS4 prices.

 

Within the 1.5 to 2k mark, I could get a whole PC with:

i7-2600k

GTX 960

1TB HD
8 GB RAM

 

That most certainly can emulate up to Wii U games, even though MattPlusOldTatsuManFrames should get some extra RAM for it, but it should emulate MvC2 without any issues.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

Anyone have any examples of games that do "revenge" mechanics well? 

I’m gonna say no, simply because I think the premise of this question is flawed. Revenge mechanics are terrible by design because you’re still giving the other guy an advantage for losing. The fix to this situation should be preventative and gradual instead of big and reactive. Instead of “how can we help this team down 20 points” it should be “how can we help this team not be down 20 points to begin with”. Watch an NBA game and you’ll often see coaches call timeout when the other team starts getting hot going on an 8-0 run or their own team is starting to break down a they need to regroup before shit hits the fan. 
 

This philosophy needs to be applied to FGs. Make it so it’s harder for one guy to completely steam roll the other with no intervention. Make more situations reset to neutral. More defensive options metered or otherwise. Guts very slowly lowering the efficacy of the other guys attack when your hp gets low. Etc.

 

Edit: Combo breakers are a great example of a “proper” comeback mechanic. In fact, they’re are basically the FG equivalent of the “time-out” example I gave above. 

Edited by Vhozite
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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Volt said:

Update: Checked for used PC prices on the same website I used to check used PS4 prices.

 

Within the 1.5 to 2k mark, I could get a whole PC with:

i7-2600k

GTX 960

1TB HD
8 GB RAM

 

That most certainly can emulate up to Wii U games, even though MattPlusOldTatsuManFrames should get some extra RAM for it, but it should emulate MvC2 without any issues.

K, either PS4s are stupid expensive down there, or PCs are basically free.

 

edit: actually this would be a comparable cost in Canada which ain’t half bad 🤔

 

https://www.factorydirect.ca/lenovo-m78-sff-a8-7600-31-qc-8gb1tbw10hkbdmse

Edited by Mattatsu
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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

that's still only like $350 max. 

I've talked to a lot of my PC playing friends, and they say if you really get a deal, you can get something "equivalent" to a base PS4 for 4-500 bucks. 

 

I ain't gonna build a PC to get something that's as good as what I got for twice the money. If I'm going to build a PC, I'm gonna drop a Grand and get something that blows current gen out of the water. And with the PS5/SEXBOX dropping, I'd have to drop a pretty penny to get a better machine. 

It's really all about what you want out of a PC. I'm not sure on just how much you'd need to dump to get equivalent power as a PS5, but I imagine it's going to be a chunk.

 

Also, you seem to have forgotten that PCs work on higher initial costs and lower long-term costs.

 

I'm really curious about the next gen consoles, but so far, we don't really have enough next gen games to know for sure.

 

Tangentially related, but I finally played on a PS4 this week. That thing is LOUD. 🤣

5 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

K, either PS4s are stupid expensive down there, or PCs are basically free.

Everything is stupid expensive here.

 

The difference is that a new console drops every 5-6 years. New PC parts drop much more regularly, which means the used market is always going cheaper.

 

This is why you should gun for used, not brand-new. PCs devalue as fast as cars.

Edited by Volt
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted

Part of the problem with SFV and SF4 specifically is that offense is really shit in both games.

 

SF4 also had ridiculous defense also but got around it with it’s crazy wake up pressure.

 

SF5 deals with it by making defense even crappier than the already gimped offense.

 

this is why I’ve often said about things like catch and release grabs (aka Makoto) or rekkas being too much for SFV. Everything is so gimped that tools like that would be overwhelming 

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