Stage Select
Advanced Search

The SF6 Thread: Back in my day we had to tick before throw!

misterBee

Recommended Posts

Doctrine_Dark Level 14

Doctrine_Dark

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Played SF6 for the first time in a while last night. I had a nice set against a Guile player. It was fun. I still feel weird playing Cammy though. 

I haven't played since day 1 of Ed's release. Basically a month. 

 

I know I'm going to get bodied the next time I hop on.

Link to comment
Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Doctrine_Dark said:

I haven't played since day 1 of Ed's release. Basically a month. 

 

I know I'm going to get bodied the next time I hop on.

I can only imagine at your skill level. I don't have much to lose when I take time off, but I can't imagine how your timing get's off. I was practicing comboing into CA2 from Cr.MP before I started looking for matches. Finally got it down, got into that set and dropped it everytime. 

 

Side note: I know it's been brought up before, but damn the scaling is weird as fuck in this game. It's easier just Cr. MP into CA2 than say doing a jump in to Cr. MP into CA2. Yet the damage is higher from doing the former. Make that make sense. The harder of the two should do more damage 😐

Edited by Darc_Requiem
Link to comment
elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Everyone who disagrees with Ryan on this needs to play Marvel vs Capcom 2. That game is the ultimate slice of humble pie. We have more information than ever before about that game and it still takes so long for a new player to fit into the meta.

 

I know the exception doesn't make the rule, but I think people who never played any of these old games at a higher level are too comfortable to immediately boil down complaints about new games as old guard elitism.

Link to comment
elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sonero said:

 

Frame 1, bitch, Its me:

 

 

Wasn't Ryan's point that there are less barriers to becoming good than before? And yeah, character balance, system changes, and sharing information on social media is a huge part of that.

Link to comment
Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, elliephil said:

Wasn't Ryan's point that there are less barriers to becoming good than before? And yeah, character balance, system changes, and sharing information on social media is a huge part of that.

 

The issue with top players is that they can't sort out whether average strength of characters is better so they're running into more mid players with better tools than they used to. Because character parity is getting better, and mid level players are better equipped overall (say people like me running the cast rather than top players but at the top too), then the information you need to succeed becomes larger. That information is making games feel random. Funny enough when I tell people smaller casts are better and they flip, this is what I'm referring to.

 

The situation now too is far more perilous because a mid level player like me has significantly more, and better, practice. I'll have better understanding of match ups, I'll have more practice in them (because online got better), I'll have more access to higher end tech. The skill floor is a lot higher in some ends. That means that when a top player fucks up, they are really going to get railed hard. This wasn't necessarily the case before. Even when SRK was popping, the people who had access to the tech and access to a scene with enough quality players to prepare for match ups was a different issue. Justin is the King in MvC2, Justin also benefitted from being in a hyperbolic time chamber compared to the rest of the country in that game (this is not all dismissive of the GOAT by the way).

 

When it comes to Japan vs USA, there are some things that Japan does better overall. Had a homie who got stationed in Korea and got to play a lot of SF5 online over there. The way he talked about how "low level" players over there played compared to over here was wild. Before that though, Japan had a bigger edge in geography. The world vs Japan was really, for the most part, the world against Tokyo. Tokyo as a city had better facilities to get good at these games while having a higher concentration of players than a lot of the planet. For the older games, that meant a lot. Netplay has done a lot to make the world flourish (Japan included in this too, in respect to Strive, Verix won and the guy is from Africa...fucking wild times in FGs).

 

Yeah, older games are hard. But they're hard because they were trying to figure out how to make these things half the time. The other they were trying wild ideas which sometimes panned out, some times didn't. Games now a days are waaaay better designed overall than older ones. I love the old games too. But like Justin Wong told somebody in some interview: "In older games, a character just sucks because they have no way to combo into super." that situation doesn't really happen now a days.

 

Where things get really weird is when certain tools become too punishing that they warp situations. For better or worse, Marissa is a scrub's best friend. Marissa/Abigail/Etc type of design is basically built to carry people. They may not want to admit it in their souls, but it leads to more fraudulent wins than not. Zero in MvC3 was a career maker. Zero is easily the most fraudulent character in any VS game. There are people who got farther in tournaments playing this character than they probably had any right of doing. But hey, that's what we signed up for. Once a character can disproportionately do damage on common situations, real randomness happens. Marissa did 80% on a reversal, you got outplayed I guess.  Even in MvC2 if you still follow it, GeneralThrillah put in time with Iron Man/War Machine/Cable and grinded it out. But a lot of his wins were from random hit into 300%; that type of stuff is where things truly get random. We know there are people who are carried, we just don't talk about it. The FGC just don't have the vocabulary, insight or wisdom, to kinda talk about those things.

 

So there are a lot of factors. Drive Rush and Drive Parry are still big iffy mechanics. I don't know how you fix Drive Rush because it means reworking a lot of frame data. Don't know if you can fix drive parry at all TBH. But it can't possibly be that the games have gotten easier yet the same people are still on top.

Link to comment
purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2024 at 4:04 PM, Darc_Requiem said:

Side note: I know it's been brought up before, but damn the scaling is weird as fuck in this game. It's easier just Cr. MP into CA2 than say doing a jump in to Cr. MP into CA2. Yet the damage is higher from doing the former. Make that make sense. The harder of the two should do more damage 😐

Check the combo out in training mode and just look at the scaling percentage.  It will give you an idea of why that is happening exactly.

Link to comment
Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
Just now, purbeast said:

Check the combo out in training mode and just look at the scaling percentage.  It will give you an idea of why that is happening exactly.

I saw the scaling in training mode. IIRC the CA2 scales at 70% after the J.HP, Cr.MP, CA2 combo and only to 90% in the Cr. MP, CA2 scenario. Which still makes no sense to me. I have awful execution and I should be penalized for it, not rewarded. 

Link to comment
purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I saw the scaling in training mode. IIRC the CA2 scales at 70% after the J.HP, Cr.MP, CA2 combo and only to 90% in the Cr. MP, CA2 scenario. Which still makes no sense to me. I have awful execution and I should be penalized for it, not rewarded. 

After a cr.medium move canceled into super, it SHOULD scale at 80%, not 90%. But there are character specific rules to the scaling so maybe Cammy has it different where it scales the special after the cr.medium by 10% instead of 20%?

 

Personally I think doing the cr.mp into CA2 is tougher because I don't have those kind of confirming skills lol.

Link to comment
Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Personally I think doing the cr.mp into CA2 is tougher because I don't have those kind of confirming skills lol.

Neither do I, I have to buffer it. Despite having more time buffer from a jump in combo, it's easier for me to do off the Cr. MP alone. I just think the extra time gives me more time to screw it up.  

 

Side note: You are right about the weird character specific scaling rules. MC Mura did a video on it. He pointed out some weird stuff with Manon and I see similar stuff, to a lesser degree with Cammy. There are so many situations where going for a shorter combo nets me more damage with Cammy.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
Link to comment
purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Neither do I, I have to buffer it. Despite having more time buffer from a jump in combo, it's easier for me to do off the Cr. MP alone. I just think the extra time gives me more time to screw it up.  

 

Side note: You are right about the weird character specific scaling rules. MC Mura did a video on it. He pointed out some weird stuff with Manon and I see similar stuff, to a lesser degree with Cammy. There are so many situations where going for a shorter combo nets me more damage with Cammy.

Yeah I just love it when I get perfect parried and someone goes into this super long combo and wastes super meter too lol.

Link to comment
CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted
On 3/26/2024 at 7:50 PM, HeavensCloud said:

It's a good list and my list is somewhat similar.  I'd substitute Hugo for Sodom since he's a grappler that I feel we've been talking about for a while but he's never been added for some reason.  Sagat, Makoto, Menat and Cody all bring the hype.  

 

I think Capcom will definitely have a slot for a new character.  Every season barring the 1st DLC season of SFV (which was more of an extension of the launch roster) had at least one new character and they did the same with the first season in 6.  

I would be ok with Sodom join at some point, but i don't count him and Hugo on same "category" even if they have grappler thing in common

 

To me distinctive trait of Hugo is that fit giant chararacter archetype, see one dwarf all big characters like he did in SF4 felt truly was different addition to the cast and was hype 😁

HugoFocus.gifUltraHeavyElbow.gif

 

him or new character (but please no Abigail lol) i would like to see that in SF6

 

Btw i think we should expect at least one big grappler in S2, considering we got none in S1

Link to comment
elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Sonero said:

This whole podcast makes everybody here look like the worst type of smug asshole.

Even though I agree with some of the points they bring up, unfortunately this is also true. But I guess we gotta fill the void before Akuma comes out 🤷‍♂️

Link to comment
purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted

I got to 23k LP last night in ranked and the competition is definitely getting tighter around this level for me.  I'm also running into quite a bit of chars I just don't have a lot of matchup knowledge against, like Ed, Lily, Kimberly, and Jamie.  When I win sets I'm finding myself winning more sets 2-1  now than 2-0 like I was before, which would put me on these pretty decent streaks of just gaining points.  But wining 2-1 is like a net of 60 points instead of 100+ and it's showing.  Or I will lose 1-2 as well.  I don't see myself losing too many 0-2 sets though so I guess that is good.

Link to comment
Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, elliephil said:

Even though I agree with some of the points they bring up,

 

Some of the points were disingenous or purposefully framed  in a way to shit on new games. Old games are full of mistakes that were exploited to hell and back. We can like them, but it would be insane to say that a character in a modern SF game should have all the properties ST Vega has on his moveset.

 

His 3S example was nonsense too. He skirted around Chris T's question to make 3S look better on the oki situations. Funniest part gotta be him saying parry didn't matter in that situation. Bro, you have 6 frames of throw invul on wake up on top of parry. The moment you wake up and walk forward, a parry got buffered in there. Be real fam. I've done walk up wake up throw to win games too. But I didn't do it in games with the benefit of actual system shit enabling it.

 

System only matters when its convenient.

Link to comment
elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Sonero said:

but it would be insane to say that a character in a modern SF game should have all the properties ST Vega has on his moveset.

I'm going to be honest, I'm having a hard time following what you've been saying here. Are the old games harder or easier than the new games? Around the same?

Link to comment
Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, elliephil said:

I'm going to be honest, I'm having a hard time following what you've been saying here. Are the old games harder or easier than the new games? Around the same?

 

What I'm saying is that a lot of "old heads" don't want to talk about how they took advantage of system things that were that way to make life easier for players. Increased throw invul frame is a direct contrast to SF2 where you could get dunked at times. Its dishonest to say the system is easier now when being able to fully wake up with hella defensive protection is something you can do in 3S.

 

There are things that are strong to the point of being scrubby in older games. Like bro, how much out playing is 3S Ken really doing? The guy has the best offense, best confirms from multiple buttons etc. Chun is even wilder. You think dudes are carried because the second half of the cast is strong than before? Chun beats 15 characters for free with 2 buttons: cr.mk and st.hp.

 

"Oh no modern games are so baby shit". Yeah, totally. The thing about MvC3 that made it baby shit was that the best zoner in the game couldn't do a full screen projectile on his incoming opponent, disable their ability to block by doing it and then ToD them from full screen. There's system stuff that sucked flaming ass in older games. People exploited it. It made the game harder for reasons that were, if we're being honest, actually bad.

 

I love these old games but they have flaws. Some of them were from design mechanics that didn't work as intended, other are glitches, etc. The way people talk about games in the FGC lacks so much nuance. There's too much of people talking about both sides of their mouth when it comes to system and design stuff.

Link to comment
Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)

@Sonero If a new game dropped that played just like an older game, warts and all, these very same players would lose their minds. I see the stuff they complain about now. Hell, I've see the Chun Li complaints in SFIV and SFV. You think if a game dropped with 3S Chun today they'd be estatic? They capping man. To keep it 100, the FGC talks out of both sides of their mouths on this type of stuff. I think about the thousands of hours me and the people at my local arcade logged on SF3:NG and SF3 3S. I get online when it finally becomes a thing and find out about tons of shit that NONE of us new about. People learn games so quickly now. Tech doesn't stay hidden. Most of the "hidden" tech was less about people hiding it and more about people being segemented in different regions with different play styles and just not picking up on it.

 

I think about how back in the day, a player from out town would come through and blow us all up because they were doing shit we knew nothing about. Conversely I remember going to college and cooking people on Second Impact and I was maybe the 3rd best player at my arcade at home. No one used Sean at arcade near my college. I could get away with shit I'd get blown up for back home. It was just a different time.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
Link to comment
  • Sonero changed the title to The SF6 Thread: Back in my day we had to tick before throw!
purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted (edited)

LMAO I legit had no clue this asshole was teabagging until I watched this replay back.  I am pretty sure I turned my head to the side when he hit me with the DI and I was legit mashing my level 3 as he tried to chip me out but fuck him.  The replay with commands would confirm that lol.  Watch how quick this soft bitch quits too.  And he won our first match.

 

 

Edited by purbeast
Link to comment
Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, elliephil said:

I started implementing delay block + parry os more mindfully lately and it's so crazy how op drive parry is in this game man. Basically get to block twice with a chance of guaranteed damage FOR BLOCKING and not need to worry much about any mixups besides throws.

so you do like a fuzzy mash input with parry?

 

Pick a side then you delay parry to cover cross ups overhead?

Link to comment
elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Sonero said:

so you do like a fuzzy mash input with parry?

 

Pick a side then you delay parry to cover cross ups overhead?

Even easier, I hold down back for maybe 5-10 frames, tap drive parry once, keep holding down back the entire time.

 

The parry whiff animation is so fast and hard to punish that it will happen and I'll start blocking again.

 

I used the os against a friend who overcommited with Ken level 3 super and the game forced me to sit there and parry the entire thing LOL.

 

(I don't use parry for jump-ins and crossups unless it's like lvl 2 Blanka or something)

Edited by elliephil
Link to comment
CESTUS III Level 15

CESTUS III

Posted
Posted

One month from now we get "Akuma is coming" Fighting Pass, Akuma for sure at some point in May... wonder when we get first "character introduction" vid, maybe 2-3 weeks?

 

Btw i just hope with Akuma launch we get Season 2 characters revealed, considering they should start around July/August

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
Go to topic listing
×
  • Create New...
Stage Select
select a stage