The SF6 Thread: Akuma Incoming!

[Doctrine_Dark]

 

Street Fighter 6 : Year One

Art by : Jessie Samson

[Pair of Rooks]

1 hour ago, Dragonfave723 said:

CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE cause we fixing Aki next. 💪♥️🙌

[elliephil]

3 hours ago, Dragonfave723 said:

I hope they revamp the whole input reader at some point. There are clips out there of people getting normals coming out on wakeup instead of throw techs, reversal moves, etc because they entered a single button ten frames before they wakeup. This is a good first step.

 

I tried finding a specific example of Honda getting cr.lk instead of whatever special he inputted, but this is pretty painful to see too.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by elliephil

[Illwill88]

Yeah hopefully this is just the start because on wake-up I felt like I was already having to input super stupid fast in comparison to v and it still doesn’t come out .  And also random upball sometimes even after standing for a split second.

[Pair of Rooks]

They need to remove all of the input shortcuts too. They're unnecessary and just get in the way.  We have Modern now for those who struggle.

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Pair of Rooks

[Hawkingbird]

Just now, Pair of Rooks said:

They need to remove all of the input shortcuts. They're unnecessary and just get in the way.  We have Modern now for those who struggle.

 

I'm learnings to use a snack box and those shortcuts are coming in clutch. I need them

[Illwill88]

 

[Pair of Rooks]

34 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I'm learnings to use a snack box and those shortcuts are coming in clutch. I need them

Another great reason to remove them: cheatboxers can't cheat.  😤

[Maravilla]

So with the input patch supers will come out easier? Harder? What's changing? 

[Shakunetsu]

[Doctrine_Dark]

Capcom knew exactly what they were doing with JP's perfect animation.

 

Homie is laughing hysterically because he knows the other player is salty as fukk.

 

 

[Pair of Rooks]

4 hours ago, Maravilla said:

So with the input patch supers will come out easier? Harder? What's changing? 

Fewer accidental supers out of nowhere.  

[elliephil]

Juri was giving out medals at CEOtaku top 8 lol

 

[Maravilla]

41 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Fewer accidental supers out of nowhere.  

Cool thanks. 

[AriesWarlock]

 

[Vhozite]

Finally got time to play after a two week drought. I’ve technically had internet for a few weeks but it’s been a lot of drama trying to get Comcast working correctly (at one point they were only giving us half the speed we payed for) and we only have the one modem downstairs. So basically if I wanted internet access I had to move my whole setup downstairs. Just got a power line adapter and used it with my computer for the first time and it works great. 
 

Had time to climb to Diamond 4 but this was probably my least enjoyable session in 6. At one point I fought 6 Kens in a row, and I was getting a shitton of 1 and done fights. I will say that I was at “chance to rank up” and the Ken player let me win so I could advance ❤️ 

[Pair of Rooks]

47 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Finally got time to play after a two week drought. I’ve technically had internet for a few weeks but it’s been a lot of drama trying to get Comcast working correctly (at one point they were only giving us half the speed we payed for) and we only have the one modem downstairs. So basically if I wanted internet access I had to move my whole setup downstairs. Just got a power line adapter and used it with my computer for the first time and it works great. 
 

Had time to climb to Diamond 4 but this was probably my least enjoyable session in 6. At one point I fought 6 Kens in a row, and I was getting a shitton of 1 and done fights. I will say that I was at “chance to rank up” and the Ken player let me win so I could advance ❤️ 

Who you playing you attract 1&dones like that? Dhalsim?? 😂

 

Srsly tho the basement is top tier for gaming. Naturally cooler, darker, and soundproof-er.  I envy..

[Vhozite]

2 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Who you playing you attract 1&dones like that? Dhalsim?? 😂

 

Srsly tho the basement is top tier for gaming. Naturally cooler, darker, and soundproof-er.  I envy..

I play Manon, but I don’t think it’s the character people just running from close games in ranked. Like if someone barely pulls out a W in a close match it’s so common that they leave lol. I feel like I’m more likely to get a run back if I just run a train on them lol. 
 

I will say I got a time over win vs a Cammy bc I got tired of chasing him. It evened it up 1-1 and he did not rematch lol

 

Also my setup (read laptop sitting on a Walmart folding table)  is upstairs not in the basement. 

[Vhozite]

Man I really hate the damage scaling on perfect parry. Every time I’m hit with or land a perfect parry the person getting parried is being real predictable. Not sure why the reward for punishing flowcharts needs to be 50%.
 

For comparison, Drive Impact scaling is only 20% for a very similar use case. cr.mk xx drive rush, probably the most powerful neutral tool in the game, is 32%. 

 

[Sonero]

35 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Not sure why the reward for punishing flowcharts needs to be 50%.

 

1) The game doesn't really have that many plus frames, so there are only so many ways of doing an honest to god frame trap (handful). If you could parry for 50%, you would further limit offense.

 

2) There is one obvious way of forcing a frame trap and it shines loudly green when it happens. This would also limit any use drive rush has a means to start your offense.

 

3) Parries are very low risk to do. If you miss the timing early, you get to block without losing drive gauge. You have to hit it late for you to be punished. Which means you can kinda throw them out there a lot.

 

4) Guess parries were shitty in 3S and literally nobody likes that bullshit other than the handful of people who played 3S and stopped playing it and the people who say they love third strike but don't actively play it.

 

 

 

 

[Phantom_Miria]

2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Man I really hate the damage scaling on perfect parry. Every time I’m hit with or land a perfect parry the person getting parried is being real predictable. Not sure why the reward for punishing flowcharts needs to be 50%.

 

Because you really don't want to play a game where someone scoring a random perfect parry leads to you losing 40% of your life, at least, and then get cornered as well.

[Sonero]

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

[Phantom_Miria]

 

[Vhozite]

1 hour ago, Phantom_Miria said:

Because you really don't want to play a game where someone scoring a random perfect parry leads to you losing 40% of your life, at least, and then get cornered as well.

Except that perfect parries are very rarely random. The overwhelming majority of the time it’s used to counter something expected. If you want to argue it’s low risk because early parry recovers in to regular parry/block sure, but they are definitely not random occurrences. Im not saying it needs to do full damage, but maybe 35-40% max. Half damage penalty sounds like it just shouldn’t be in the game. 
 

Also don’t talk to me about “random” when cr.mk xx drive rush leads to easy 30% confirms or strike/throw mix for very little risk. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

9 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

The overwhelming majority of the time it’s used to counter something expected.

 

Amongst a bunch of other issues, SF6 parry is relatively low risk. It isn't so much that parried something expected, is that you attempted to parry and at worst got a regular block. So there isn't a lot of risk in going for it. If you increase the reward, then you're going to fish that a lot more often. As is there are a lot of times where holding parry down is better than holding block because if they drop the combo, end up in a better post in gaining meter from parrying 2 or more random hits than you do blocking.

 

 

[Phantom_Miria]

9 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Except that perfect parries are very rarely random. The overwhelming majority of the time it’s used to counter something expected. If you want to argue it’s low risk because early parry recovers in to regular parry/block sure, but they are definitely not random occurrences. Im not saying it needs to do full damage, but maybe 35-40% max. Half damage penalty sounds like it just shouldn’t be in the game. 
 

Also don’t talk to me about “random” when cr.mk xx drive rush leads to easy 30% confirms or strike/throw mix for very little risk. 

Even then, you can't turn moves that are supposed to be safe or plus into heavily punishable stuff out of pressing parry at the right time. You'd be turning everything that's visually reactable into extremely dangerous moves to throw out that you just wouldn't be able to do anymore in competitive matches: Dragonlash, Marisa's Gladius, Gief's stHP, Manon's overhead, etc.

 

crMKxxDR is already annoying as it is and it could help having further scaling on it, we don't need the defensive version of it too on top of that.

 

The huge scaling on perfect parries seemed counter-intuitive at first to me too, then I saw how it actually plays out in matches and that it was a very smart move. No, I shouldn't lose even 30% because I threw a move that was supposed to be plus on block, not out of something that if you fuck up you're still blocking and reduced Drive Meter cost. If you get a perfect parry you get a small punish that you can optimize a little, and you get to completely switch the momentum in your favour, and maybe you have oki and the corner as well. That sounds more than enough.

[AriesWarlock]

 

[HeavensCloud]

Tapping perfect parry on defence is pretty low risk.  You can honestly tap it in a rhythm similar to throw tech in SF4 and sometimes get a 'random' perfect parry which lets some characters like Ken side switch into corner knockdown, or Jamie can get a palm into 2 full drinks.  It isn't really about the damage.  

[Sonero]

https://twitter.com/Scamby820/status/1706072344391758232

[HeavensCloud]

 

Nemo got to test out A.K.I.

[elliephil]

Perfect parry is mostly bullshit because it most often seems to happen when I'm hit confirming, in the middle of a combo, or punishing a whiffed move. It's hella scrubby. It's like Sonero has pointed out, it's a skill that doesn't exist outside of this game the same way parrying in 3s isn't in others. I'm convinced the last thing someone is going to do most of the time is block at this point.

 

Still love SF6 and 3s tho lol

[delete_me]

6 hours ago, elliephil said:

Perfect parry is mostly bullshit because it most often seems to happen when I'm hit confirming, in the middle of a combo, or punishing a whiffed move.

 

That makes no sense though. If your opponent can parry in these situations that means you messed up your combo or punish.

[elliephil]

1 hour ago, delete_me said:

 

That makes no sense though. If your opponent can parry in these situations that means you messed up your combo or punish.

well yeah of course. It doesn't make it not scrubby to have an opponent mashing parry in the middle of strings LOL

[Vhozite]

2 hours ago, elliephil said:

well yeah of course. It doesn't make it not scrubby to have an opponent mashing parry in the middle of strings LOL

Scrubby is dropping your combos then complaining that you got blown up for it LOL. 

[Sonero]

 

5 hours ago, delete_me said:

That makes no sense though. If your opponent can parry in these situations that means you messed up your combo or punish.

 

On a normal SF game, you drop a combo and you're opponent is going to block. If they're mashing during a combo, they might get a DP. In SF4 dudes would mash ultras constantly because them shits were hard and you could randomly ultra people.

 

In this game its way less committal because there's zero risk to doing it. Hell there's little risk to parrying during a chunk of frame traps too. Because unless its a frame trap that can lead to a throw, you don't really risk all that much for going for them.

 

Which is kind of the problem. Parries in 3S could be buffered in at random which sucked. Parries here are just a fancy block if you mess them up. There's no reason why you should get rewarded more for something that is very low risk.

 

53 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Scrubby is dropping your combos then complaining that you got blown up for it LOL. 

 

🤦‍♂️

 

That's not at all what he said.

[Vhozite]

That’s exactly what he said lol.
 

12 hours ago, elliephil said:

Perfect parry is mostly bullshit because it most often seems to happen when I'm hit confirming, in the middle of a combo, or punishing a whiffed move. 

No mention about parry canceling into block or being low risk. The only other thing he mentions is that the skill doesn’t exist outside of 3 and 6, which doesn’t matter because we aren’t discussing other games.
 

That doesn’t happen unless you’re dropping lol. You can replace parry with literally any counter action and it would apply. Mashing DP/Super/DI or possibly even a jab. Complaining about getting got after dropping a combo because the opponent isn’t behaving the way you want during hitstun is literally scrub mentality 101. If the opp knows you might drop your combo mashing a way out is literally exactly what you should do lol. 
 

There have been several good arguments against perfect parry. Whining that it lets people blow up gaps from sloppy play is NOT one of them and you know it lol.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

People drop a combo for any situation,

 

 

Quote

Bro, look at that scrub with sloppy play.

 

Shout outs to all the combos that have been dropped in top 8s by scrubby people who slopped their way there, I guess.

[Vhozite]

Dropping combos is not scrubby it’s a mistake. Complaining that a mechanic got you blown up for your mistake when it was used correctly is scrubby. Expecting people to play a specific way because of what happens in other games and complaining when they don’t conform is scrubby.
 

Stop interpreting what I say in the most backwards way possible because you don’t like the mechanic you look illiterate.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

21 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Dropping combos is not scrubby it’s a mistake. Complaining that a mechanic got you blown up for your mistake when it was used correctly is scrubby.

 

You're the one who called Ellie's complain scrubby. Considering he plays way harsher games than SF6, he isn't complaining about getting punished for dropping a combo. Nobody is saying that you shouldn't get punished for dropping a combo.

 

The problem is that the moment you get hit, there is doesn't seem to be a reason to block. Because at worst, if you mess up a parry, you get a block. That means that the safest option is actually the worst. Its taking risk/reward in a terrible place because hitting buttons is safer and better than not hitting buttons.

 

You also get a disproportionate reward for basically not paying attention and just mashing on it.  If I get Ch. St.MP with Cammy, I can link into St.Hp. If I drop that link, I'm -3 on block. If I just mash away on parry and you get a perfect parry, I'm -21. If you mash on parry and don't get perfect parry, I'm -3 and you're safe at no risk. So you took an option that was little risk and mostly reward.

 

Then you get situations like this one:

 

You aren't taking any risk by doing parries. In some cases (which will probably end up being a lot), you there is no disincentive to not mash on parry. You didn't have a read, play in a clever way or outwit anything. You just took an option where too many times there's no reason not to.

 

There might be some counterplay we don't know about. But even if blanka were to cancel there, you end up building more drive meter and end up at normal block frame data. So continually little risk.

 

That's why you can't buff perfect parry reward. Its attached to regular parry and it already minimizes the risk of going for those as is.

[Phantom_Miria]

Something I noticed with A.K.I. is that a lot of her Toxic Bloom combos end up in re-poisoning, either because the combo extension you get from the explosion contains a poisoning move or because you get the time to lay a poison puddle. This might help A.K.I. in getting snowball-y with her offense.

 

Also, she doesn't have a real reversal but EX Slide has the advantage of side switching, so it doesn't just get you out of the corner but puts your opponent in the corner instead, and if you want to keep her in the corner you'll have to go for throws a lot, which can make your pressure more predictable. It's like a not-OP version of JP's Amnesia where your opponent doesn't really have to fear a normal reversal out of you outside of Super but it still changes how they'll approach you on wakeup compared to a character like Zangief or Manon who are free on wakeup. If they're afraid you'll try to escape with Slide they'll go for throw, so it will be less risky for you to tech, but if they seem to go for normal offense that means you have room to escape.

 

Also, if they ever get rid of throw loops A.K.I. will become even harder to keep in the corner, and I'm expecting this character to be annoying to keep cornered, even if getting a punish counter throw on her EX Slide even once is going to be devastating for her Drive Meter wise.

[Hecatom]

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

[Totalsagat]

Perfect parry/parry is in a good spot, if anything parry is slightly OP ( has  zero requirements for anything - low/high/bad timing accepted/less push/dont have to parry multi hits - best parry in any game IMO). I don't think any one has mentioned it, but you could make it so you could not throw ( but could still command grab) from a PP punish. This would get rid of the dreaded side switch. 

 

Drive rush though....I think they need bigger hurt boxes or a bigger punish window. The amount of times you die by trying to react to DR but get hit is insane, the game almost presents to you a situation where taking plus frames deliberately  ( even though you think you can stop it) is better and that's not a good design. 

 

People say "punish counter" on hit, but after thinking more about it, that wont stop anyone doing drive rush. They will just do it again. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Totalsagat

[Vhozite]

I’ve been saying since week 1 that drive rush needs to cost more, and I guess I still think that. However, higher cost wouldn’t actually fix my issues with it just like adding punish counter to it wouldn’t address it either. Those “solutions” feel like the same as devs giving low tier big bodies more health instead of actually fixing their functional issues. 
 

The overwhelming majority of my issue with drive rush is when it’s combined with lows…mainly cancelable cr.mk’s. It can be very obnoxious outside of that  (Deejay teleporting across the whole stage bc you dared to be near his fireball) but the more I play the game drive rush with cancelable lows is the big thing that feels broken. Fighting a character who has that vs a character who doesn’t makes 6 feel like 2 different games. 
 

That 15% extra damage scaling isn’t changing shit either it’s still by far the best thing in the game. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Vhozite

[elliephil]

16 hours ago, Vhozite said:

Scrubby is dropping your combos then complaining that you got blown up for it LOL. 

I mean you're not wrong... but I think you might also be missing the point of what I was trying to say. If I replace "mashing parry" with "mashing dp" in the middle of strings that would probably have a completely different meaning to most players. It's a part of the game and I respect that. It's also a common criticism of 3s which has pretty close to the exact same mechanic that people didn't like for the same reasons.

 

Edit: Sonero summed it up perfectly.

14 hours ago, Sonero said:

The problem is that the moment you get hit, there is doesn't seem to be a reason to block. Because at worst, if you mess up a parry, you get a block. That means that the safest option is actually the worst. Its taking risk/reward in a terrible place because hitting buttons is safer and better than not hitting buttons.

Edited September 27, 2023 by elliephil

[Vhozite]

Oh I think parry is a terrible mechanic and SF3 is GARBAGE. But it’s one of those things where it’s in the game and I think people are right to exploit it as much as possible. 

[Totalsagat]

Yeah the entire mid range is basically low xx drive rush rinse repeat with the occasional raw drive rush. It gets tedious after a while, but I mean I'm doing the same thing with Cammy. Maybe they shoulda gave the SF5 stubby normals to these characters! 

[Sonero]

Wonder what will happen with the game? Drive Rush is honestly the one mechanic that feels like they got wrong. But they keep doing things to help new people that they rearranged a whole lot of frame data to basically accommodate drive meter and drive rush granting you plus frames.

 

[Totalsagat]

Very difficult situation now because "ma combos" will be the call from most people although when they say that I generally think they are talking about the daft 6 meter juggles. 

 

I'd just beef up the hurt box on the DR rush personally. No worse feeling than reacting to it, just to see your normal whiff and they do a 5000 damage super link because you got punish countered. I didn't like the dashes in SF5 (did anyone) which makes it all the more baffling that people are in love with SF6 but gave us all the SF5 gimmicks on steroids. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Totalsagat