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DNF Duel - Dungeon Fighter....Fighter from Arc Systems Works!

Hawkingbird

By Hawkingbird
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted (edited)

Here are some sets that i had with a japanese player, they are Striker's mirror matchers.

 

a05ce933c031691fff2e3c87bc9c5ebf.png

 

NSFW

 

Spoiler
Spoiler

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Leaving aside that i felt that at some times the rollback gave him some little advantage, he surely knew how to space his hits and do a lot of what seemed like optimal combos to me.

 

If they don't change Striker much for the release date, those combos will be very helpful, imo.

 

BTW, if i were able to make an addition to Striker would be to add an ovehead outside the Divekick.

I feel that you need to take a lot of leaps of faith with her both with her divekicks and with her normals, specially on some matches that are kind of awful for her like the Gunslinger and Vanguard, really making it difficult to open them once you manage to get near them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Hecatom
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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Volt said:

This game seems to have a very odd lack of overheads. Usually ArcSys doesn't have a problem with that. I wonder what's up with that.

 

My only guess is that they really want you to be doing those instant overheads with the skills (Striker's divekicks, Grappler's air grab, etc), but you don't always have the option to do them when putting pressure on certain chars 😕

 

It is funny because the hurricane kick of Striker, starts as a low, so in theory is for mixups, but her only overhead is the dk 😅

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-PVL93- Level 13

-PVL93-

Posted
Posted

This game is kinda funny

 

you have tools to pin people down but can't grab during their blockstun

you have shit like Inqui's wheel and Kuno's firestorm but no crossup because of the block button

Kuno has a teleport but you can't go behind opponents for a left/right mix

you have guard cancel to get out of pressure and avoid being guard broken but apparently it just sucks and isn't worth the meter

you have a roll to close the distance towards charas like ranger and vanguard but it's hella unsafe and you can be punished on recovery, plus it doesn't travel all that far

you can keep people away with half the cast yet no mobility options like a super jump or an air dash which will result in very skewed matchups

there are no universal/a lot of unique overheads so the threat of a high/low mix isn't prevalent either, just hold downback

you're supposed to go on the offensive but characters have slow walkspeeds and they build momentum really slowly in forward dash (unless you're Kunoichi who runs super fast)

afaik throws don't have a whiff animation (please correct me if I'm wrong here, haven't seen any) and backwalk speeds aren't high so you can't shimmy for a natural strike/throw mix

 

Of course I fully expect the game to change in many ways come second beta in a few months but... yeah some design decisions are strange

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, PVL_93_RU said:

This game is kinda funny

 

you have tools to pin people down but can't grab during their blockstun

you have shit like Inqui's wheel and Kuno's firestorm but no crossup because of the block button

Kuno has a teleport but you can't go behind opponents for a left/right mix

you have guard cancel to get out of pressure and avoid being guard broken but apparently it just sucks and isn't worth the meter

you have a roll to close the distance towards charas like ranger and vanguard but it's hella unsafe and you can be punished on recovery, plus it doesn't travel all that far

you can keep people away with half the cast yet no mobility options like a super jump or an air dash which will result in very skewed matchups

there are no universal/a lot of unique overheads so the threat of a high/low mix isn't prevalent either, just hold downback

you're supposed to go on the offensive but characters have slow walkspeeds and they build momentum really slowly in forward dash (unless you're Kunoichi who runs super fast)

afaik throws don't have a whiff animation (please correct me if I'm wrong here, haven't seen any) and backwalk speeds aren't high so you can't shimmy for a natural strike/throw mix

 

Of course I fully expect the game to change in many ways come second beta in a few months but... yeah some design decisions are strange

 

1) You can do frametraps and tickthrows, many games are like this one in that regard, so dunno why is worth mentioning that, lol.

 

2) While true that you can use the block button, most people still use holding back to block, so is not like is invalidated, and taking into account how much your opponent gets pinned down by certain skills, you have other mixup opportunities besides crossups, like baiting guard cancels, high low empty jumps, etc.

 

3) The fuck are you talking about lol, i teleported behind people most of the time when i played with Kuno.
Her teleport is distance dependent, which is where its mixup potential lies.

 

4) Completely wrong in that regard, the guard cancel is vital in many matchups, is just that you cant be a dumb dumb on how to use it, for all purpose it works more like a burst from GG, where you need to use it intelligently.

Is clear that is designed that way because how quick and how easy you get the meter you need for it, by the end of the round you can easily use it like 3 times in a row.

Besides, most chars have a generous hitbox with their guard cancels, catching people above and behind them with the attack used in the animation, well, at least the ones i used and fought against.

 

5) The roll feels weird at first, i give you that, but once you understand on what moments you have to use it depending of the matchups, you see that is not really that unsafe, is just that you don't want to be rolling without a reason, since is not a tool for movement, but a tool to close the gap when your opponent uses certain skills, considering the recovery frames many chars have on the moves you will want to use the roll, you will usually recover before them and will be able to punish them or at least start your own pressure. 

Also the roll carries momentum from your run.

 

What i would like though, is that we could use a different macro instead of 6+Block, it is kind of awkward, at least for me, is something that i would love for GBFVS to do as well, btw.

 

6) Yeah, it feels weird to not have super jumps, i hope they add some form of it, because lets take Striker vs Ranger or Vanguard feels like i have to put way more effort into getting in than those clowns into keeping me out (more in the case of Ranger than Vanguard), specially Ranger that has like the equivalent of 2 dp's that just fuck all my effort on getting in and start my pressure game/opening him 🤣

 

In theory Striker has a move to close the gap with invulnerability, but gets wrecked when Ranger uses his gun spam MP skill.

 

Also shotouts to Holy man for also being a frustrating matchup for Striker, even more than Vanguard,lol

 

7) I think the idea of not having universal overheads lays in that you can do instant air skills, basically you can caught anyone with a instant divekick/ airgrab with Striker and Grappler for example, and in some ways it could be quicker than an overhead.

The issue i think lays in that without training mode we didn't really had ways to test for optimal blockstrings to integrate them on them.

 

I fought a Grappler that had the airgrabs and block strings on point, so i get what they are trying to do, but is different from what we are accustomed from other games, so it feels off.

 

And tbh, i don't think that having universal overheads will negate their goal? of using the skills, is not like having 6+B being overhead will affect the current cast, since iirc, no one has a command normal to begin with, so adding an overhead with that input wouldn't be a problem imo.

 

8 ) I felt that the walk speed can get a little buff on the speed, but it wasnt really a problem, the same for the run animation, specially because you can cancel it for the block with the button and into the roll.

 

9) Throws have whiff animations dude, i whiffed some on the videos i posted, specially on wakeup since the wakeup invul is very very generous fucking with me over in many occasions, lol, and you definitively can do tick throws, but, if you are in that scenario, depending of the char, i think you have better options, specially if you have instant air skills be regular or metered.

Trying to do tick throws with Striker outside some matchups is not a good option than doing a mixup between 6+MS or instant divekick.

 

The game is certainly trying to do some stuff its own way, since they are putting emphasis on the use of skills, i still think there are some options that need to be added, but at the same time, people were barely scratching the usage of the tools of the chars (me included), with where we had jump cancels, the usage of conversion, etc.

 

Then while the game seems like it wants you to rush like a madman, you have mechanics like the recovery of grey health that invites you to also take your time and be lame.

I kind of see why they said it was like SNK/Samsho inspired with a dose of ASW flavor.

 

 

Edited by Hecatom
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  • 3 months later...
HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Hecatom said:

 

For what they are going, i don't think that they will add air dashes.

And tbh, I don't think the game needs it.

 

But, I think it will benefit from having super jumps and hops like KOF

Yeah, not every anime game needs air dashes.  I'd definitely like them to add super jumps though, that feels like a good option especially with how oppressive some of the special moves are.   

 

 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

I gotta find a way to organize some games with you guys either tonight or tomorrow.

 

Ranger vs Vanguard feels terrible. Think overall Vanguard still has some massive gaping holes in his gameplay. Ghostblade felt really cool even when mashing with him. Game is still turbo fun.

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-PVL93- Level 13

-PVL93-

Posted
Posted
On 6/11/2022 at 5:41 AM, Counterstrike said:

Ain't gonna lie Swift Master looking cool AF! How is anybody supposed to choose a main in this game geeeez!!!

Wait till you see the rest of the subclasses that are yet to be included in the game and have potential as fighting game characters. There's some really cool and wild shit 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

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Posted

Playing grappler is a struggle. He has similar problems to Alex where the tools he's given don't work the way they should because they all have the same weakness. Charged shoulder, launcher and grab can get blown up by lows easily. Even the counter that's suppose to be his reversal gets blown up by a low. That's egregious. The other three I can understand but the counter? C'mon! The other reversals don't have anything that can stop them dead on their tracks like that.

 

If I can't people to stop pressing buttons than grappler can't be scary

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