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The MEGASHOCK Saloon Thread 3: Chinder Chagger Edition

Disciple0fAnrky

By Disciple0fAnrky
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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 5/10/2023 at 10:48 AM, Sonichuman said:

Thinking you can't be racist to white people just because most of their ancestors owned slaves and because racism is institutionalized feels like an excuse to be an asshole to people who are likely not even part of the problem.

Actually only about 1 in 14 whites who were living here at the time were slaveowners. A large chunk of the white people who were brought over in the 16 and 1700s, especially Irish and English, came over as slaves, (ahem, indentured servants, which is just a nice way of saying "slave") themselves, and the Civil War was fought by lower classes that couldn't afford to pay their way out of having to serve like the wealthy boys could.

 

I agree with you though. Creating double standards where racism is concerned just leads to more racism and keeps us fighting with each other when those of us who aren't in the upper classes have a lot more in common regardless of race than we realize.

 

Anyway, if you've read to the end of this post, here's a Salma Hayek gif as a reward

Spoiler

Salma Hayek Actress GIF

 

Edited by DoctaMario
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Chadouken Level 17

Chadouken

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, VirginDefiler said:

yunno ive never really liked the wall. always thought that album was overrated. that said ive never really listened to animals other than the dog song.

Animals is my favorite Floyd album. Followed probably by Meddle and then Dark Side. I don't really like the post-Rogers stuff. Division Bell had a couple OK tracks on it.

Edited by Chadouken
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OPTIMUS124 Level 16

OPTIMUS124

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Actually only about 1 in 14 whites who were living here at the time were slaveowners. A large chunk of the white people who were brought over in the 16 and 1700s, especially Irish and English, came over as slaves, (ahem, indentured servants, which is just a nice way of saying "slave") themselves, and the Civil War was fought by lower classes that couldn't afford to pay their way out of having to serve like the wealthy boys could.

 

It is absolutely not that. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

 

If you were an indentured servant, there was a path to freedom through cheap/free labor. You were "indentured" for a period of time and once the term (around six years) was up, you were considered a free person. African slaves were considered property, were in bondage and the owner had complete rights to them. They were not even regarded as human. 

 

There are parallels, but it is not the same. 

 

Edited by OPTIMUS124
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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted (edited)

You know people probably just don't want any fucking kids. My choice to not have kids never really had anything to do with where society was at and just that I don't want any fucking kids. 

 

Worlds got almost 8 billion of us, a lot of us just aren't interested or in or care about replacement rates. 

Edited by RSG3
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OPTIMUS124 Level 16

OPTIMUS124

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Reticently said:

Tbf, I'm pretty sure Docta knows that.  I think his larger point was just that most white people weren't actually slave owners, based on socioeconomic status if nothing else.

I can agree with the take. I was referring to the statement that indentured servants as a nice way to say "slave". 

 

Yes, most white people didn't own slaves.

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, OPTIMUS124 said:

 

It is absolutely not that. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/indentured-servants-in-the-us/

 

If you were an indentured servant, there was a path to freedom through cheap/free labor. You were "indentured" for a period of time and once the term (around six years) was up, you were considered a free person. African slaves were considered property, were in bondage and the owner had complete rights to them. They were not even regarded as human. 

 

There are parallels, but it is not the same. 

 

I won't go into specifics (unless you're interested, in which case, we could take it to DMs) but I will say that history is written by the elites and often in such a way as to cover for guilty parties; there is a lot that was left out of the history I was  (and that probably all of us were) taught in school regarding the Civil War and slavery; and while the parallels you referenced aren't necessarily 1:1, there are a lot more similarities than there are differences. I can link you to some books I've read that shed a lot of light on things if you're interested, but if not, I'll leave it at that.

Edited by DoctaMario
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BB_Hoody Level 14

BB_Hoody

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

Actually only about 1 in 14 whites who were living here at the time were slaveowners. A large chunk of the white people who were brought over in the 16 and 1700s, especially Irish and English, came over as slaves, (ahem, indentured servants, which is just a nice way of saying "slave") themselves, and the Civil War was fought by lower classes that couldn't afford to pay their way out of having to serve like the wealthy boys could.

 

I agree with you though. Creating double standards where racism is concerned just leads to more racism and keeps us fighting with each other when those of us who aren't in the upper classes have a lot more in common regardless of race than we realize.

 

Anyway, if you've read to the end of this post, here's a Salma Hayek gif as a reward

  Hide contents

Salma Hayek Actress GIF

 

Well with the indentured servants. There was an agreement. In exchange for passage on the ship to get to the new world. They would work for x amount of time. After which their debt is paid and were given land, or a lump sum of money.

 

ACTUAL slaves? The agreement was with the chiefs of conquering African tribes. In which prisoners of war. Were sold to them as property. Thus you arrive a slave, work live and die a slave. And your children and grandchildren go on to suffer the same fate.

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, BB_Hoody said:

Well with the indentured servants. There was an agreement. In exchange for passage on the ship to get to the new world. They would work for x amount of time. After which their debt is paid and were given land, or a lump sum of money.

Yeah- I've done some of my wife's genealogy for shits and giggles.  She has an ancestor who came over as an indentured servant not long after the Pilgrims, contract ended 2 years later and he ended up owning a big chunk of what's now Boston.  Big, big leap from that to "I even own your kids" slavery.

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OPTIMUS124 Level 16

OPTIMUS124

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, DoctaMario said:

while the parallels you referenced aren't necessarily 1:1, there are a lot more similarities than there are differences. I can link you to some books I've read that shed a lot of light on things if you're interested, but if not, I'll leave it at that.

I don't mind being informed. The person's output was the deal, literal slavery was the owning of the person and everything that they created, thought, etc. There was no way out. I'm not negating that it wasn't a walk in the park. 

 

1 hour ago, BB_Hoody said:

Well with the indentured servants. There was an agreement. In exchange for passage on the ship to get to the new world. They would work for x amount of time. After which their debt is paid and were given land, or a lump sum of money.

1 hour ago, BB_Hoody said:

ACTUAL slaves? The agreement was with the chiefs of conquering African tribes. In which prisoners of war. Were sold to them as property. Thus you arrive a slave, work live and die a slave. And your children and grandchildren go on to suffer the same fate.

 

Seems like in recent years this discussion has come up a lot more often.

 

1 hour ago, Reticently said:

Yeah- I've done some of my wife's genealogy for shits and giggles.  She has an ancestor who came over as an indentured servant not long after the Pilgrims, contract ended 2 years later and he ended up owning a big chunk of what's now Boston.  Big, big leap from that to "I even own your kids" slavery.

This is an extreme come-up. 

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zatalcon3 Level 11

zatalcon3

Posted
Posted
On 5/10/2023 at 6:01 PM, DangerousJ said:

I always felt that D+ in USA didn't have enough new content.

It just strikes me now that Disney has to change the name of their streaming site because the acronym "D+" doesn't sound right to me. For 5 seconds I thought that was referring to something gay on the web, like the D stands for dick and the + was like a positive or one of those dirty text messages where the D resembles the head of penis and the + is shooting out of it. I could've sworn I remember that almost becoming slang with the hood rats down in brownsville .

Anyway then my brain went back to normal and I was like, "oh ya, disney+". I think DSS would be safer,

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J-ride Level 17

J-ride

Posted
Posted
On 5/10/2023 at 11:32 AM, Sonichuman said:

That sucks ass and it really shouldn't be like that.  Only thing I can say is that as with anything involving prejudice and stereotypes...it's just those lil assholes and they don't rep the whole.    My kid ain't white but he is definitely "white passing" and the fact that his eyes are actually green/silver looking (depends on the way the light hits them) , I know for a fact that he's probably gonna get shit from both sides as he's growing up.  I'm not looking forward to having to have that conversation with him.

My main gripe about it is that when I call the parents out on it to their face they are such cowards that they act like the kids are doing this all on their own.  I let them know that the least they could do if they are going to raise their kids like that is to own it.  They usually don't say shit after that lol.

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BB_Hoody Level 14

BB_Hoody

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, VirginDefiler said:

lainey wilson, that phat assed hottie that million follows, won female artist at the cma.

also. dolly can still sing.

Thanks for reminding about her. Haven't checked on her in a minute. A slim thick white woman like that don't make no sense. But I'm here for it

 

@MillionXYour taste in women is excellent sir 👌

Edited by BB_Hoody
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iStu X Level 18

iStu X

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, VirginDefiler said:

they say D+ lost 30% of its subs due to peeps boycotting disney and its "woke" content. idk. but disney def lost close to 30% of its subs in a year. 

They did but It isn’t because people boycotting Disney for going “woke” or whatever the fuck. If people actually read the articles covering the situation the drop is due to them losing the streaming rights for all the major Cricket events under the International Cricket Council. 

Edited by iStu X
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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, OPTIMUS124 said:

I don't mind being informed. The person's output was the deal, literal slavery was the owning of the person and everything that they created, thought, etc. There was no way out. I'm not negating that it wasn't a walk in the park. 

 

 

Seems like in recent years this discussion has come up a lot more often.

 

This is an extreme come-up. 

These are a couple good ones to start with:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Red-White-Black-Gary-Nash/dp/0205692370

 

https://uncpress.org/book/9780807854525/the-invention-of-free-labor/


 

Spoiler

While there were people who wanted to come from Europe to North America and couldn't afford passage, so they entered into contracts for their labor, it's believed that 1/2 to 2/3 of the people who came from Europe up through the 1800s were kidnap victims (kidnapping was basically legal if the victim was poor/lower class and in the 1600s, an average of 10,000 people were kidnapped purportedly for the purpose of being sold to slave traders EVERY YEAR in England alone), prisoners (England would ship 50-60k of its prison population to the US before the Founders rebelled against the crown and they began shipping them to Australia), poor people who were on public assistance (the crown found it was more cost effective to sell these folks to slave traders and relieve themselves of the burden of having to pay for their assistance) and ORPHANS who were taken and sold by slave traders in North America. And this is just the English, this doesn't take into account the half a million Irish and countless Germans who were similarly shipped to North America, Barbados, and even as far as Brazil.

 

Assuming they survived the trip across the Atlantic, these "servants" were bought and sold, families broken up, and if they lived through their period of servitude (many did not), they had the unenviable position of being laborers in a slave economy, which usually meant they were condemned to a life of extreme poverty. But they were property and were legally referred to as  such, even marked down on tax forms next to livestock. Their "freedom dues" were the same "40 acres & a mule" bs the African slaves were told they'd get, but we know how that worked out.  At which point, they'd either become sharecroppers or they'd move up into the mountains and out to rural areas and their descendants would be the Appalachians, moonshiners, and generally the folks that get referred to as "white trash."

 

These are just a really small example of what's in books like these.

 

I don't bring all this up to minimize black slavery, moreso to illustrate that much like police brutality, something else a lot of white people regarded as a "black people problem" until videos of victims (of all colors no less) started popping up, slavery is another such case. We're all still dealing with the aftermath not only the slavery itself, but racial animosity that the upper classes stoked between the labor classes in order to maintain their power. I think if more people, white people especially, understood how much a shared history there is there, it might stoke them to be more empathetic toward where black folks are coming from on the issue.

 

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