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The MEGASHOCK Saloon Thread 3: Chinder Chagger Edition

Disciple0fAnrky

By Disciple0fAnrky
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AriesWarlock Level 18

AriesWarlock

Posted
Posted

speaking of

Netflix's Cleopatra director speaks out after series faces heavy criticism

Adele James, who is Black, takes on the role of the Egyptian Queen; a casting choice that prompted criticism from some who have accused the series of 'erasing' Egyptian identity.

One Egyptian lawyer has even filed a lawsuit against Netflix over the decision, requesting that legal action be taken against the creators of the show and that the streaming service should be shut down in Egypt, while other critics have made it so the trailer for Queen Cleopatra has become one of Netflix's most disliked trailers ever.

 

Now, director Tina Gharavi has hit back at the criticisms that have come flooding in with a new article written for Variety.

Gharavi, who took the role of director last year, recalled seeing Elizabeth Taylor play Cleopatra in the 1963 film and feeling as a child that the image was 'not right'.

 

Gharavi, who took the role of director last year, recalled seeing Elizabeth Taylor play Cleopatra in the 1963 film and feeling as a child that the image was 'not right'.

 

Screenshot_2023-04-21_at_17.08.11.png

 

"With this new production, could I find the answers about Cleopatra’s heritage and release her from the stranglehold that Hollywood had placed on her image?," she asked.

Noting that 'the chance of [Cleopatra] being white [was] somewhat unlikely', Gharavi began the hunt for 'the right performer' to play the queen.

 

She continued: "Why shouldn’t Cleopatra be a melanated sister? And why do some people need Cleopatra to be white? Her proximity to whiteness seems to give her value, and for some Egyptians it seems to really matter."

 

When it came to casting James, Gharavi felt she'd found an actor who 'could convey not only Cleopatra’s beauty, but also her strength'.

 

Noting that 'Cleopatra’s heritage has been attributed at one time or another to the Greeks, the Macedonians and the Persians', the director questioned whether the backlash was not just about her directing 'a series that portrays Cleopatra as Black'.

Instead, she wondered whether it was 'that I have asked Egyptians to see themselves as Africans, and they are furious at me for that'.

 

"I am okay with this," she wrote.

Gharavi concluded: "So, was Cleopatra Black? We don’t know for sure, but we can be certain she wasn’t white like Elizabeth Taylor. We need to have a conversation with ourselves about our colorism, and the internalized white supremacy that Hollywood has indoctrinated us with."

"Most of all, we need to realize that Cleopatra’s story is less about her than it is about who we are," Gharavi concluded.

James herself has stood by the creators of the show, telling those who aren't happy with the casting choices not to watch it and adding: "I’M GASSED and will continue to be!’

 

https://www.unilad.com/film-and-tv/netflix-cleopatra-director-tina-gharavi-speaks-out-series-criticism-654774-20230421

Netflix is being sued by Egyptian lawyer over controversial Cleopatra series

According to the Egypt Independent, lawyer Mahmoud al-Semary filed a case with the Public Prosecutor to see Netflix shut down in his country in the wake of the trailer release of Queen Cleopatra.

 

He has demanded serious legal action be taken against the streaming service for making the documentary and accused Netflix of participating in 'this crime'.

The attorney has also called for a thorough investigation into the making of the documentary and called for Netflix to be banned in Egypt as a consequence of the 'Blackwashing'.

 

The complaint, submitted to Egypt's the Department of Public Prosecution, against Netflix claims the documentary does not conform to 'Islamic and societal values and principles, especially Egyptian ones'.

 

"In order to preserve the Egyptian national and cultural identity among Egyptians all over the world there must be pride in the makings of such work," the legal filing stated.

It also accused the documentary filmmakers and Netflix of being complicit in a 'forgery'.

 

Former Egyptian Antiquities Minister Zahi Hawass also accused Netflix of 'falsifying facts' by depicting Cleopatra as a Black woman.

"This is completely fake. Cleopatra was Greek, meaning that she was blonde, not Black," he said, as per the Egypt Independent.

 

Cleopatra has been recorded to have originated from Macedonian Greek heritage.

Common historical records show that her Macedonian Greek family, the Ptolemaic dynasty, had ruled over the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt for more than three centuries.

"Despite not being ethnically Egyptian, Cleopatra embraced many of her country’s ancient customs and was the first member of the Ptolemaic line to learn the Egyptian language," History.com says.

 

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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
Just now, DangerousJ said:

Is this Jada's revenge for all the ancient Egyptians being whitewashed in previous Hollywood flicks?

Or just her own brand of niggatry?

She's just being a moron. If you wanted to have "black" characters for an project, she could have done something on Axum or Kush. Hell Upper Egypt was ruled by the Kush at one point IIRC and bordered modern day Sudan. But I digress....

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MillionX Level 17

MillionX

Posted
Posted

Yes, I never get tired of that topic... so yeah, the "transgenders in sports" debate and the ongoing saga of new-era race-swapping... these 2 topics are the gifts that just keep on giving.  It's delicious entertainment every time, for so many reasons.  Let's get a biopic about Wesley Snipes, starring John Goodman as Wesley... or one about Michele Yeoh with Tiffany Haddish playing Michele.  Back to fictional characters, maybe we get John Cena to be Bishop in the new X-men movie, while Martin Lawrence plays Jubilee.  "Anybody can play anybody!" as Campea would say and it all makes perfect sense now, right?

Straight Face Trying Not To Laugh GIF

 

 

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, DangerousJ said:

@Reticently

 

Have you ever shown your kids the G1 transformers show? 

If so, did they like it?

My kids have a contrarian streak, so if I tried to get them to watch it deliberately they'd reject it out of hand.

 

That said, they've discovered the original Power Rangers on their own and are mildly obsessed, so odds are great they'd like it if they watched it.

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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted
Just now, HD-Man said:

I think that Netflix controversy is great, them old Egyptian movies used to be full of white ppl. Welcome to our world 🤣


It was a different time. I don't think it's fair to change mid last centuries with some of these retarded woke sensibilities. More so, Elizabeth Taylor was *fucking* ICONIC in Cleopatra. These fools know nothing!

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Daemos said:


It was a different time. I don't think it's fair to change mid last centuries with some of these retarded woke sensibilities. More so, Elizabeth Taylor was *fucking* ICONIC in Cleopatra. These fools know nothing!

When you say "woke" what do you mean by that?

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted

Wasnt Cleopatra born like before Christ tho? Like, her race is kinda widely debated and not really set in stone to have a definitive answer on that, you'd need a DNA sample to be sure and that aint happening, I think they found her skull allegedly (which is conveniently missing btw). She's probably Greek, but she's also just as likely a mix of a bunch of different things 

 

Like, white ppl have their interpretation so black ppl should be allowed to have theirs since data is inconclusive on Cleo. It'd be different if it was some sort of recent historical figure like Queen Elizabeth, i could see the issue with race then. I don't see it as a big deal especially if you're all cool with the Elizabeth Taylor rendition 

 

But my Egyptian history knowledge isnt that extensive so maybe im wrong 🤷🏾‍♂️

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Reminds me of vanilla, its actually black but for some reason "we" came to see it as white 🤣

When you use vanilla as an ingredient, it doesn't change the color of the food you put it in.  And with most of the foods that use vanilla being dairy or flour based, most vanilla flavored foods end up being white to pale yellow.

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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Wasnt Cleopatra born like before Christ tho? Like, her race is kinda widely debated and not really set in stone to have a definitive answer on that, you'd need a DNA sample to be sure and that aint happening, I think they found her skull allegedly (which is conveniently missing btw). She's probably Greek, but she's also just as likely a mix of a bunch of different things 

 

Like, white ppl have their interpretation so black ppl should be allowed to have theirs since data is inconclusive on Cleo. It'd be different if it was some sort of recent historical figure like Queen Elizabeth, i could see the issue with race then. I don't see it as a big deal especially if you're all cool with the Elizabeth Taylor rendition 

 

But my Egyptian history knowledge isnt that extensive so maybe im wrong 🤷🏾‍♂️

No there isn't any debate. Cleopatra's family from Macedonia. She was Macedonian Greek. They, Ptolemaic Dynasty, ruled Egypt for almost three centuries.  She wasn't even the first Cleopatra from the line, she was the 7th IIRC. Cleopatra wasn't black nor was she attractive. There are statues and coins from the time of her rule. She and Marc Antony were both busted looking.

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

No there isn't any debate. Cleopatra's family from Macedonia. She was Macedonian Greek. They, Ptolemaic Dynasty, ruled Egypt for almost three centuries.  She wasn't even the first Cleopatra from the line, she was the 7th IIRC. Cleopatra wasn't black nor was she attractive. There are statues and coins from the time of her rule. She and Marc Antony were both busted looking.

Oh, so you're saying they found DNA to pinpoint her race? Guess im misinformed, my bad

 

(Side note, I cant wait til that Gal Gadot Cleopatra movies drops, the salt will be glorious)

Edited by HD-Man
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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Oh, so you're saying they found DNA to pinpoint her race? Guess im misinformed, my bad

 

(Side note, I cant wait til that Gal Gadot Cleopatra movies drops, the salt will be glorious)

No, I'm not saying that at all. The coins from her time, not only show she isn't black. They show she was not attractive rulers, by in large, want their likeness to look better than their actual appearance. If she were a commoner of the time, there could be debate. The Greek Rulers of Egypt were Macedonian Greeks. Greeks aren't black people. 

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Chadouken said:

I always thought it was funny how the people who get so offended at race swapping are the most likely people to have a picture of a blue-eyed white Jesus hanging in their trailer.

Blue eyed Jesus is marketing

To be fair though, how mad would folks get if they did a Shaka Zulu remake with white people in some of the roles though 🤣

Edited by DoctaMario
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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, DoctaMario said:

Blue eyed Jesus is marketing

To be fair though, how mad would folks get if they did a Shaka Zulu remake with white people in some of the roles though 🤣

And that's what grinds my gears most, no consistency. The same people stanning for historically inaccurate Cleopatra and Ann Bolin would have a fucking meltdown if that happened. 

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheInfernoman said:

woke currently = leftism/overtly progressive for the sake of being progressive. 

 

Example, Black Ariel..."Blariel" if you will 

Not what that word means, white ppl co opted it as a proxy to use for their bigotry. And Mermaids are fictional fish creatures, they can literally be fuckin blue colored, race is irrelevant and not central to them at all

 

Yall see anything that isn't centered on the straight white male experience as woke and dont even even use the word correctly 

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TheInfernoman Level 16

TheInfernoman

Posted
Posted

I realize if we want equality, we need to insult equally more, for each person that says "white people nonsense" I need to say something about black people. It's only fair. 

 

But real talk, the solution to portrayal of historic characters is to stick to *Gasp* who they actually were? You can do a reinterpretation but don't expect it to go well if you're trying to pass it off as historical fact. 

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TheInfernoman Level 16

TheInfernoman

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Not what that word means, white ppl co opted it as a proxy to use for their bigotry. And Mermaids are fictional fish creatures, they can literally be fuckin blue colored, race is irrelevant and not central to them at all

 

Yall see anything that isn't centered on the straight white male experience as woke and dont even even use the word correctly 

BRUV, let me be clear, I stand by keeping characters accurate to their source material. 

 

Ariel is fictional but was created by Disney on a story that was based on a European story. Keep her as is based on that.

 

A new example FROM DISNEY AGAIN is Nani from Lilo and Stitch is a fictonal character who is a dark brown Hawaiian woman and thick, but the actress Disney chose doesn't look like Nani from their own creaton. KEEP HER BROWN AND THICK!

 

If you don't care Ariel is black, then you must equally must not care Nani is nearly white yes? You or anyone making this argument cannot have it both ways. 

 

The other solution is make a new original character. Stop accepting the leftovers of classically white characters. 

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Chadouken Level 17

Chadouken

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Yall see anything that isn't centered on the straight white male experience as woke and dont even even use the word correctly 

Hearing conservatives say woke always gives me a chuckle. Fox News hosed that shit into their mouths and they slurped it right up without even trying to understand what it actually means. It's like when your lame parents try to be cool. I feel embarrassed for them.

 

It's the exact same shit as this 😂

 

maxresdefault_2.jpg

 

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DoctaMario Level 17

DoctaMario

Posted
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

Not what that word means, white ppl co opted it as a proxy to use for their bigotry. And Mermaids are fictional fish creatures, they can literally be fuckin blue colored, race is irrelevant and not central to them at all

 

Yall see anything that isn't centered on the straight white male experience as woke and dont even even use the word correctly 

Breaux, black folks are constantly on the "why aren't there more black (insert fictional race)?" train though...

Edited by DoctaMario
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