The Guilty Gear general: Getting Wildly Assaulted in the Keyhole

[Volt]

7 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Real talk fundamentals are universal across FGs and this dude had none. Even a small amount of thinking and he would’ve completely rolled me. 

That is true, you got that shit down bro.

 

I thought the yolo Ky Foudre Arcs would at least let me steal a game and you had the super punish on point.

 

All I could hear was:

 

I legit dunno how you could do that shit on reaction that consistently. 🤣

[Vhozite]

New strategy: get to 200+ blood rage and spam 5HS. If they block it just do it again and laugh as they run into your half screen range button. 
 

I’m really starting to hit my stride with Nago. I’m not good yet but the gameplan is starting to come together and I think he compliments my style.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Vhozite

[Vhozite]

23 minutes ago, Volt said:

That is true, you got that shit down bro.

 

I thought the yolo Ky Foudre Arcs would at least let me steal a game and you had the super punish on point.

Before I played Baiken I played Potemkin, and Nago super motion is the same as Pot buster. Long story short I can do that shit FAST lol.

 

 I still flub it on P2 side a lot tho. Not a complete machine yet. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Vhozite

[Pair of Rooks]

Is there some way to tell Strive to NOT communicate with server on app startup?  I just want to hit Training Mode real quick and this communication phase lasts long enough to type this post. And then some. 

 

[Volt]

17 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Before I played Baiken I played Potemkin, and Nago super motion is the same as Pot buster. Long story short I can do that shit FAST lol.

Meanwhile, I see you pressing that long ass 2HS and I'm mashing Heavy Mob...

 

And SOMEHOW I get Tyrant Rave from fullscreen on some absolute clown shit. 

 

Gotta grind my inputs out, SFV ruined me.

[Volt]

8 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Is there some way to tell Strive to NOT communicate with server on app startup?  I just want to hit Training Mode real quick and this communication phase lasts long enough to type this post. And then some. 

 

Uhhhh, unplug that cable? 🤔

[Pair of Rooks]

41 minutes ago, Volt said:

Gotta grind my inputs out,

What controller you using?

 

I ask because I am tired of trying DPs on this Xbox 360 analog stick so as a Father's day present to myself I ordered a Hori Fighting Commander or whatever it's called. 

 

Hopefully my Dragon Install inputs will actually start working. Ky in DI is fuuun.

[Mattatsu]

I love this damn game. I spent the whole night getting absolutely wrecked and yet, I can’t wait to do it again tomorrow.

[Pair of Rooks]

2 hours ago, Volt said:

Uhhhh, unplug that cable? 🤔

This works. Just a pop-up one from Steam and one from Strive, easily dismissed.

1 hour ago, Mattatsu said:

I love this damn game. I spent the whole night getting absolutely wrecked and yet, I can’t wait to do it again tomorrow.

I labbed shit today, didn't play a single game. (Limited time today but still.) 

 

OTG combos scale heavily, like, over 50% of your damage is gone when they hit the floor. 

 

Throw combos scale heavily too. 

 

Throw into OTG and your 55 damage poke does 8 damage.

 

BTW throws in this game aren't usually slamming someone into the floor, but instead a single hit pummel after which they drop.  The distinction isn't just academic nor animation. You can RC after the pummel and combo before they hit the floor. 

 

In other surprising but related news, I thought Ky's most damaging non-super attack was his H.DP, but it's actually his throw: 63 vs 85 damage. 

 

Another SF habit to break: supers take one bar, not the full stick of butter. You can RC your super on hit or whiff.

 

---

That red Gatling chart from the first beta has an error.  2S chains into HS or 2HS, and IIRC far S chains into HS or 2HS.  The chart said 2 only chains to 2 and 5 to 5, but we actually can mix n match.

 

Homework: damage on air combo spike?  It must be massive considering the scaling.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Pair of Rooks

[Mattatsu]

5 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Throw combos scale heavily too. 

Yeah, by quite a nutty amount.

 

with Millia, after a throw, I can RRC, catch them with the bubble, and go into and an 11 hit air combo after that, and that metered extension will only basically double the damage of the throw… Starting to realize it’s probably not worth the meter unless it will kill

[Vhozite]

This really isn’t a Strive specific problem but I really wish a FG dev would come up with a better UI solutions for meter. Maybe it’s me being too close to the monitor or something but I really hate when I’m fighting in the corner and I basically have to look at my bar on the other side of the screen to keep track of my resources. 

 

I mention this because often I have to be very deliberate with my eyes checking on my blood rage. It would be great if there was something on Nago’s model that told me where I was instead of having to gauge it based on the range of 5H or taking my eyes off the action to glance at the bar.

 

Edit: Giovanna is a good example of what I’m talking about. Her whole model changes color as she gets 50/100% tension, so you’re 100% sure you’re buffed without looking at the tension bar.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Vhozite

[Mattatsu]

Yeah, I think Nago should show something for the blood gage. Like maybe his sword changes colour or something.

 

for the basic tension meter, i don’t mind where it is, but i wish it would change colour or something more noticeable than just adding the cog once you reach 50%.

[Reticently]

Not a complaint on my part, but it's funny to me how SFV got hate for years over Crush Counters being a thing, but heavy counter hits in this game make CCs look nuanced and nary a word gets said.

[BornWinner]

You must have missed when they first showed off the game then. A lot of people hated it along with the general UI (which did need work to be fair) and  one user here still calls this game SF Strive because of it and other decisions this game made. 
 

It still gets memed on today but it’s generally positive. Because who doesn’t love a big ol-

 

[GetTheTables]

I think its a context thing. SF is the "honest footsie" game so having buttons that explode into extra damage runs counter to the propaganda and thus inflamed the player base more. Plus they were really obnoxious in their early form before they started tweaking scaling and what you could get after which I think left long term mental scars.

 

GG has always had some manner of big dumb CHs that lead to fucked up combos so I think its less of a system shock. I think Danger Time was a closer analog to how CCs felt to play with/around. And the game is new enough that people haven't really sussed out whatever shenanigans lie behind the heavy CH state. I just found out about the OS property of CHs the other day thanks to EC's vid.

 

The visual noise element of it is obnoxious but I got used to it pretty quickly. For this game where CH confirms seem to be a big facet of picking up good damage I appreciate the game basically shaking me by the shoulders and screaming "GO NOW HIT THE BUTTON OLD MAN".

 

Regarding the meter thing, I think it is exacerbated by the pace of the game. I'm used to having time to check meter here and there but in this game it can be tricky when things are really going. KDs and combos are the best times to check in but that isn't super helpful with something like the blood gauge where if you slip on that it could blow out the round. Having more character based visuals for critical things like that would be nice, especially since you know more characters are going to have stuff like that.

 

 

[Reticently]

How important it is to keep an eye on your meter really depends on how you want to use it too.

 

Like, missing a Red RC because the meter wasn't there isn't the worst thing in the world for most situations.  Whereas fucking up a defensive option that needed meter probably costs you the round.

[GetTheTables]

 

If I need to use drift RC more (which definitely seems like the case) I think I need to map an RC button. The way I do it now is gonna murder my hand.

[Mattatsu]

26 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

I think I need to map an RC button. The way I do it now is gonna murder my hand

What’s your button layout?

[Vhozite]

19 minutes ago, Reticently said:

Not a complaint on my part, but it's funny to me how SFV got hate for years over Crush Counters being a thing, but heavy counter hits in this game make CCs look nuanced and nary a word gets said.

Honestly I’m really tired of this trend in FGs. With Strive now the last 3 fighters (SFV/MK11) I’ve seriously played have had these “BIG DAMAGE COUNTERHIT ATTACK NOW” effects and it’s getting obnoxious. 
 

It’s not as bad in MK11, since Krushing Blows can only happen once per match each. But in SFV and GGS I feel like repeatable big counters give a bit too much incentive to use certain attacks over and over. Hearing 
C O U N T E R every 10s is also lowkey annoying.

[GetTheTables]

34 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

What’s your button layout?

P S D

K H Dash

 

Last two currently mapped to record/playback. I've been just RC'ing using 3 buttons.

 

To do drift RCs there is a bit of Tekken Pad Fingers going on (you can drift with regular double tap dashes but in plenty of situations the Dash button makes it so much easier). Doesn't feel ideal.

[Reticently]

18 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I feel like repeatable big counters give a bit too much incentive to use certain attacks over and over

It seems like it's always something though.  Big counters or light confirm strings, pick your poison.

[KingTubb]

18 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

P S D

K H Dash

 

Last two currently mapped to record/playback. I've been just RC'ing using 3 buttons.

 

To do drift RCs there is a bit of Tekken Pad Fingers going on (you can drift with regular double tap dashes but in plenty of situations the Dash button makes it so much easier). Doesn't feel ideal.

Hey, that's my exact layout!

 

I might honestly go with this:

P S D 

K H Dash RC.

 

I always feel like the 4th button on kicks is easier to hit with my pinky than the 4th on punches 

[GetTheTables]

Yeah I'm thinking the same thing. I also have the problem of right now my button discipline is kinda wonky and sometimes I hit the far right button (think it's L1 on the Obsidian) accidentally. So ideally I'd like that mapped to something that won't make me sad/dead.

 

Theoretically I'm only really going to use the RC button with drifts so it seems like it'll be best to have it close to the dash macro button. I'll mess around with that later today. Though it'll take time to get used to. I still flake on the fact that a dash button exists at all.

[BornWinner]

It’s people like these that make me happy to play Faust.

 

 

 

[Mattatsu]

My layout is the following and I’m happy with it:

 

P S H

K D Dash

 

the only issue is I have (is the same as you guys) where I drift RC with double taps on the direction inputs.

 

personally, I hate using my pinky for anything, and hitting P S H for RC feels nice

 

edit: when you drift RC, do you press the dash button and RC at the same time? Or do you like, plink it?

Edited June 15, 2021 by Mattatsu

[GetTheTables]

16 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

edit: when you drift RC, do you press the dash button and RC at the same time? Or do you like, plink it?

I've only ever gotten it to work right via plink. Even then I haven't gotten vertical drifts to work that way. Probably just a timing thing on my part. And not that big of a deal for what I'm usually using it for (air throw conversions so its easy to bake the 2,2 into the cancel).

[Pair of Rooks]

1 hour ago, GetTheTables said:

I still flake on the fact that a dash button exists at all.

Tbf I think if you played someone other than screen-sized sword girl you'd fall in love with that airdash button pretty quick. 😂

 

47 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

edit: when you drift RC, do you press the dash button and RC at the same time? Or do you like, plink it?

Nobody reads my text walls. 😭 Simultaneous press never works, I labbed that specifically. It's a generous window, like 10f so it doesn't have to be a plink. A slow plink might be more reliable in the heat of battle.

Edited June 15, 2021 by Pair of Rooks

[Vhozite]

1 hour ago, Reticently said:

It seems like it's always something though.  Big counters or light confirm strings, pick your poison.

Unlike everyone else here I don’t think light confirms are the literal devil. 
 

Hit confirming is one of my favorite FG skills. Not a huge fan of anything that makes it too easy.

[GetTheTables]

12 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Tbf I think if you played someone other than screen-sized sword girl you'd fall in love with that airdash button pretty quick. 😂

 

Nobody reads my text walls. 😭 Simultaneous press never works, I labbed that specifically.

Matt's a busy guy. Gotta bottom line it for him. 😁

 

I also read 'em but I apparently zoned out and missed that. Sorry!

 

The thing about the dash button is that I'm really used to double tapping for dashes so I do that reflexively. Which isn't bad per-se but the dash button is a no fail option which helps when you're trying to hit specific windows and helps stuff I usually beef up like trying to defensively backdash. Plus yeah it is super useful for managing air movement.

 

So what I usually do is either a) forget it completely, or b) split the difference and hit a direction before hitting dash which is the worst of all worlds. I'll get there though. I've definitely felt it more playing around with Gio and I-No the little bit I have. 

[Vhozite]

I mapped a button to dash then I realized I couldn’t even use it lol

 

RC button is definitely the look tho

[Pair of Rooks]

On pad, I mapped Dash to L1 so it's still on the left hand. Mapped RC and Burst to shoulder buttons to. 

 

I don't have a taunt button at all though. This is probably for the best. 😬

[Reticently]

5 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

This is probably for the best. 😬

Sure seems that way.  Taunts in this game are near concede round status.

[Laughingman]

I use the this button layout:

 

P S D

K H RC

 

I've spent far too long learning dashes in combos and IADs to lose that muscle memory.

[Sonero]

5 hours ago, Reticently said:

Not a complaint on my part, but it's funny to me how SFV got hate for years over Crush Counters being a thing, but heavy counter hits in this game make CCs look nuanced and nary a word gets said.

 

People gave CCs shit for being a wack version of the counterhit situation in GG. It could be that they are too much in Strive, but they make sense in the Xrd and XX. In those games you can fly around all over the place with moves with different properties. If you get caught slipping, you get to EAD.

 

But the counterhit properties aren't just on normals. They're attached to specials too.  Some of the high pay off moves are kinda high risk in certain ways, which is the opposite of SF5 characters tossing random normals out there.

 

Modal Counterhit moves (moves that had different properties based on whether they hit counterhit or not) felt like a more thoughtout idea than CCs ever did.

[EvilCanadian]

I warned yall

 

 

[Alkipot]

I want to learn at least one more character, but the MAY GANG and dolphin degeneracy is pretty hard to give up... Axl seems decent, so maybe he's a good shot.

[Reticently]

20 minutes ago, Sonero said:

the opposite of SF5 characters tossing random normals out there

It's all fair and doesn't impact my appreciation for the game, but there are normals in Strive that on counter hit will take you from mid screen and put you through the wall doing ~50% meterless, and I'm not even sure that's optimized.  Even SFV's most cracked out cc's aren't that big without having meter to burn, so I'm surprised at the lack of complaints.  Maybe people got that out of their systems during the beta though, and I just missed it.

[misterBee]

4 minutes ago, Reticently said:

It's all fair and doesn't impact my appreciation for the game, but there are normals in Strive that on counter hit will take you from mid screen and put you through the wall doing ~50% meterless, and I'm not even sure that's optimized.  Even SFV's most cracked out cc's aren't that big without having meter to burn, so I'm surprised at the lack of complaints.  Maybe people got that out of their systems during the beta though, and I just missed it.

There are less complaints because the game is fast-paced enough that you get the chance to do the same thing to other people all the time.

 

People only complain and say something sucks when it happens to them, but it's totally fine when they are doing it to others.  🙃

[Pair of Rooks]

1 hour ago, Reticently said:

It's all fair and doesn't impact my appreciation for the game, but there are normals in Strive that on counter hit will take you from mid screen and put you through the wall doing ~50% meterless, and I'm not even sure that's optimized.  Even SFV's most cracked out cc's aren't that big without having meter to burn, so I'm surprised at the lack of complaints.  Maybe people got that out of their systems during the beta though, and I just missed it.

If you're on the wrong end of that mechanic a lot, just airdash over the ground game. And if they call you out, air block.  You got options.

[Sonero]

1 hour ago, Reticently said:

It's all fair and doesn't impact my appreciation for the game,

Not really. Those mechanics are existing in way different situations. The difference is that Strive is giving you shorter combos with similarish damage like:

 

There was another clip out there that had Slayer's counterhit damge in the XX series and it was really silly. His counterhit damage in Xrd was pretty funny too. A lot of characters dealt FAT damage on counterhits in both XX and XRD.

 

Lol this one wasn't even on counterhit:

 

 

 

 

As for crush counters, they tried to shoehorn that stuff into SF5 and made a lot of it the game way less fun for it. Mostly because it involved messing with how normals worked and tacking it unto the attack strength system from 3S.

 

Counterhits in GGs (and other stuff) hurts like hell because they've kinda always hurt like hell. Doing bum combos does bum damage. Start from a good starter and you get good damage. Always been the case. They may have streamlined a bunch of stuff, but Strive hasn't changed that core aspect of the game.

 

1 hour ago, misterBee said:

People only complain and say something sucks when it happens to them, but it's totally fine when they are doing it to others. 

 

Nah, some things work in some games and not in others. When's the last time a KoF game came out with assists? Strikers are one of the biggest meme mechanics in KoF for a reason.

[Mattatsu]

4 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

Nobody reads my text walls. 😭 

My bad. Honestly speaking, I have meant to go back and review that information when I’m sitting with the game this weekend. I can tell there’s some goodies there, but it’s hard for me to remember it from just reading it.

[HeavensCloud]

How do you embed tweets on this site?

[Mattatsu]

12 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

How do you embed tweets on this site?

You paste the link. If it just shows up as the written link, press to change it to plain text and then it should embed

Edited June 15, 2021 by Mattatsu

[HeavensCloud]

Thanks @Mattatsu.    Wanted to show this.  Ram's swords can actually fly in the wrong direction sometimes lol.  

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by HeavensCloud

[Mattatsu]

Great video by LK. In the last minute or so, he talks about how different RCs cause different slowdowns for your meter regeneration after the RC, and how wall breaks (positive bonuses) don’t have that effect

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Mattatsu

[Darc_Requiem]

I still haven't even decided on a character yet. I just know who ever it is, it won't be May. I don't care what Echo and Flipper suggest to me.

[Pair of Rooks]

So using RC prevents meter gain for awhile.

 

Blue RC locks you out of meter gain for the shortest amount of time.

Then red.

Then purple.

And yellow RC locks you out of meter gain the longest.

 

IRC is always better than shockwave RC, but not so much better than to be better than the color choice.

 

Positive bonus, i.e. post wall break, ignores it.

 

Thx Mattatsu.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Pair of Rooks

[Vhozite]

Gonna admit I have no idea what positive bonus actually does lol. I just assume you build meter faster after breaking a wall

[Mattatsu]

59 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Gonna admit I have no idea what positive bonus actually does lol. I just assume you build meter faster after breaking a wall

From what I understand (take that for what it’s worth), after you land from breaking through the wall, your meter automatically passively gains, no matter what you’re doing. It may take like 10-15 seconds or so to get the full bonus, but it gives you something like 50% bar, no matter what happens. I believe anything that normally adds to the bar (doing damage, getting hit, advancing, etc) just adds on top of that passive gain.

 

* note: the time and meter gain amount are just rough estimates. I could be hella wrong.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Mattatsu

[Mattatsu]

1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I still haven't even decided on a character yet. I just know who ever it is, it won't be May. I don't care what Echo and Flipper suggest to me.

I gotta admit, after all the games we have played, I have no idea at kind of a character you play, other than usually females (which is all good, I’m the same too lol).

 

I think you like a decent neutral character with easy ways to get in…. That’s probably actually May, lol, but I-No may be okay if you don’t mind a bit of mix and are okay her ground/air dashes. Ram is a brute in neutral, and doesn’t seem to suffer too much up close or with mobility either