The Street Fighter V Thread

[Volt]

46 minutes ago, Illwill88 said:

Fighting games are kind of inherently bad for story modes.  You can't really do like other games because there's no main character or allow created characters.    

[TWINBLADES]

6 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

The debate over story modes isn't one. NRS games curb stomp the competition sales and its not due to an appeal to the hardcore market. Given the tournament participation, it's obvious what most of the people buying the games purchase them for. What the hardcore FGC needs to realize is that casuals fund their games. Those modes keep the proverbial lights on.  Just do what the bulk FPS players do and ignore single player content. Go straight into multiplayer.

I never touched any of the single player content in SC6 LMAO 

 

Volt out here defending story modes 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Edited October 13, 2020 by TWINBLADES_SRK

[Volt]

2 minutes ago, TWINBLADES_SRK said:

I never touched any of the single player content in SC6 LMAO 

 

Volt out here defending story modes 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

Well, I ain't a simpleton that drools over any white hoe with blonde hair.

 

Need actual depth on my waifus. 🤣

[KingTubb]

14 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

NRS games curb stomp the competition sales and its not due to an appeal to the hardcore market

Do you think their sales have anything to do with them being a western developer and the west being their target market?

 

Cause I was thinking, the best selling fighting game of this generation not named Mortal Kombat is DBFZ. Dragon Ball is huge in the west, and people wanna shoot the pew pews from their hands and scream and turn yellow and shit

[TWINBLADES]

6 minutes ago, Volt said:

Well, I ain't a simpleton that drools over any white hoe with blonde hair.

 

Need actual depth on my waifus. 🤣

>Fighting game story modes 

>depth 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by TWINBLADES_SRK

[Mr.Cipher]

Volt has a point.

Story Modes aren't bad, most have bad execution.

 

I stand by my point (and Volts) that Xrd got a great structure and more games should follow it.

 

SF Storys will stay bad as long as the characters don't get flashed out. No matter how good the writing, you will always have a Hobbo, who gets to be the hero, because Plotarmor and everyone else being incompetent at their jobs.

 

Wouldn't like and play most of my characters if it wasn't for how great their characters are.

If I just wanted fireball, DP and tits, I could play lots of characters I actually don't like.

[Mr.Cipher]

Just now, KingTubb said:

Do you think their sales have anything to do with them being a western developer and the west being their target market?

 

Cause I was thinking, the best selling fighting game of this generation not named Mortal Kombat is DBFZ. Dragon Ball is huge in the west, and people wanna shoot the pew pews from their hands and scream and turn yellow and shit

 

MK got the nostalgia factor (like SF and Tekken), you can get stuff done by mashing buttons, nonsensical gore, a high prodcution value Story Mode that has a terrible Story in a world that changes it's powerlevel more often than the entire human population changes their socks.

Actually why do like People NRS Games? They look like ass, play like ass, have ass animations.

 

I blame it on marketing nonsense.

[misterBee]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

 

MK got the nostalgia factor (like SF and Tekken), you can get stuff done by mashing buttons, nonsensical gore, a high prodcution value Story Mode that has a terrible Story in a world that changes it's powerlevel more often than the entire human population changes their socks.

Actually why do like People NRS Games? They look like ass, play like ass, have ass animations.

 

I blame it on marketing nonsense.

MK11 is the first one that doesn't feel bad to play.  Movement feels much better than older MKs did.  That's why I got into it.

 

The graphics are pretty great!  Animations still jank though. =[

[Hecatom]

16 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

Do you think their sales have anything to do with them being a western developer and the west being their target market?

 

Cause I was thinking, the best selling fighting game of this generation not named Mortal Kombat is DBFZ. Dragon Ball is huge in the west, and people wanna shoot the pew pews from their hands and scream and turn yellow and shit

I am not really sure if is because they are western or not.

After all, KI is also a fg made by a western studio and is a western ip and that one didnt manage to make an impact, despite being the better game (KI>>>>>>>>Any NRS MK), granted, KI had the disgrace of being MS exclussive, and we will never know if it were a multiplatform would have helped.

 

But, is clear that one of the factors that make it appealing is the violence on it and the fact that MK as a brand has a really big appeal mostly due the cross media during the 90's and starting 00's, despite having really terrible entries until recently (although they offered extra game options on those bad games, so there is that).

 

You know how there is this false pretense that because is violent is more mature. So you have a game that appeals to dudebros that only play insert sports game here and inserts fps here, is easy to see it will sell.

And now that they have WB money they can amp the appeal by introducing mindless spectacle to boost sales.

 

Like i said on SRK, i am more interested in seeing how a new ip would fare, beause so far, NRS had the advantage to attach their games behind 2 big brands.

And seeing how little retention they manage to have when it comes to its playerbase, i am almost sure that NRS and WB know it would be really risky move, hence why they have been tied to just rotating their input between MK and INJ.

[KingTubb]

22 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

I blame it on marketing nonsense.

That's what I'm saying, homie. MK is marketed heavily to western audiences, from the look, to the gore, to everything in between.

 

Tons of japanese fighting games are super anime, which is something that's niche in the west. 

 

Outside of Naruto, One Piece, and Dragon Ball, you have to do some digging or already be into Anime to find stuff.

 

And most Anime licenses go the cheap and easy route and make arena fighters, which sell like hotcakes. Hell, Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 sold like 6 million copies. Xenoverse 1 and 2 have collectively sold 10 million copies 

[Hecatom]

12 minutes ago, misterBee said:

MK11 is the first one that doesn't feel bad to play.  Movement feels much better than older MKs did.  That's why I got into it.

 

The graphics are pretty great!  Animations still jank though. =[

It is funny how, this is the best MK in terms of presentation and gameplay, a sentiment shared with my brother, and yet, is the one we played the least.

MK9 and INJ were games that we played for hours to no end.

MKX suffered of me moving out of the country, but we still played it a lot.

Then INJ2 and MK1, 2 games that in theory improved in a lot of our problems with NRS games (even if they still retain some shit we hate, but have accepted that NRS wouldnt never change) we barely touched them.

[Mr.Cipher]

Just now, KingTubb said:

That's what I'm saying, homie. MK is marketed heavily to western audiences, from the look, to the gore, to everything in between.

 

Tons of japanese fighting games are super anime, which is something that's niche in the west. 

 

Outside of Naruto, One Piece, and Dragon Ball, you have to do some digging or already be into Anime to find stuff.

 

And most Anime licenses go the cheap and easy route and make arena fighters, which sell like hotcakes. Hell, Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 sold like 6 million copies. Xenoverse 1 and 2 have collectively sold 10 million copies 

 

I'm part of the western audience.

MK isn't WW2 themed and I find gore boring (and yes I'm a fan of Warhammer, both fantasy and 40k). Definitly not part of their target audience.

[Hecatom]

1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

Tons of japanese fighting games are super anime, which is something that's niche in the west.

Maybe with your gen and the previous one, but seeing how Anime and Manga are increasing in popularity those days, i expect more growth with FGS.

Add that there has been a shift in popularity of games, moving away from gritty to a more cartoon aesthetic.

 

Also, I know that by west you mean usa mostly, because let me tell you, anime has always been huge in latin america, since it was cheaper for tv stations to import.

90% of the animation i watched while i was a kid was anime.

Hence fgs and anime games being popular around those places.

[misterBee]

9 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

And most Anime licenses go the cheap and easy route and make arena fighters, which sell like hotcakes. Hell, Ultimate Ninja Storm 4 sold like 6 million copies. Xenoverse 1 and 2 have collectively sold 10 million copies 

Going arena fighter isn't the 'cheap and easy' route.  The reason they make arena fighters is because that game style is more popular.

 

Gundam vs Gundam is easily the most popular competitive game in arcades, and has been for years now.  All those anime arena fighters being made are basically trying to be Gundam clones.  The traditional 2D/3D fighter is not as popular as it once was. 

 

The only reason arena fighters are not as popular in the west is because we no longer have arcades and didn't get as much exposure to that gameplay style.  It's also much harder to find enough people to play proper matches at home on console because a lot of arena fighters are team-based games.  In the west arena fighters are niche but in Asia they're mainstream.

[KingTubb]

1 minute ago, misterBee said:

Going arena fighter isn't the 'cheap and easy' route

My bad, i was just thinking about it in a competitive sense. There isn't nearly as much balancing for competitive play with arena fighters and fine tuning going on. 

 

Plus they don't need continued support after release, cause after you beat the SP mode, you usually move on the the next one instead of jumping online. 

[misterBee]

Just now, KingTubb said:

Plus they don't need continued support after release, cause after you beat the SP mode, you usually move on the the next one instead of jumping online. 

I don't think this is true.

 

Again using Gundam as an example -- the arcade game gets new characters added all the time.  Console versions also have a ridiculous amount of DLC in the form of characters, UI skins, announcer voice packs, etc.  There is definitely a ton of support there.

 

Bootleg one-off clones might not get support but the big name arena fighters get just as much if not more support than games like Street Fighter or Tekken.

[Hecatom]

1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

My bad, i was just thinking about it in a competitive sense. There isn't nearly as much balancing for competitive play with arena fighters and fine tuning going on. 

 

Plus they don't need continued support after release, cause after you beat the SP mode, you usually move on the the next one instead of jumping online. 

If you want an arena fighter with depth, try Kill la Kill. 

It was made from scratch with competitive play in mind. 

[Hecatom]

2 minutes ago, misterBee said:

I don't think this is true.

 

Again using Gundam as an example -- the arcade game gets new characters added all the time.  Console versions also have a ridiculous amount of DLC in the form of characters, UI skins, announcer voice packs, etc.  There is definitely a ton of support there.

 

Bootleg one-off clones might not get support but the big name arena fighters get just as much if not more support than games like Street Fighter or Tekken.

I wouldnt really call Gundam an arena fighter tbh. 

Fir starters Gundam has multiple players in the arena, arena fightrrs are 1vs1 (playerwise). 

 

 

[misterBee]

Just now, Hecatom said:

I wouldnt really call Gundam an arena fighter tbh. 

Fir starters Gundam has multiple players in the arena, arena fightrrs are 1vs1 (playerwise). 

Gundam is definitely an arena fighter.  Arena fighters can certainly be more than 1v1.  Dissidia NT falls into this category too.

 

I'd argue Gundam actually created the arena fighter genre in the first place when Federation vs Zeon came out a million years ago.

[GetTheTables]

57 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

The debate over story modes isn't one. NRS games curb stomp the competition sales and its not due to an appeal to the hardcore market. Given the tournament participation, it's obvious what most of the people buying the games purchase them for. What the hardcore FGC needs to realize is that casuals fund their games. Those modes keep the proverbial lights on.  Just do what the bulk FPS players do and ignore single player content. Go straight into multiplayer.

I think the thing that makes it hard from the FG development perspective is if you really want to be successful for the most part (NRS is the only one that can really get away with releasing games with strong single player and shitty fighting systems, see the whole PS2/Xbox era), you want to ride the line. 

 

You want enough single player content that the general user is going to feel good about the purchase. Story mode has a broader appeal theoretically but even just some decent Arcade modes are better than nothing. Give those people no reason not to say "no" to your game (yes I'm standing by that awful sentence).

 

Then you need the actual game itself to be fun enough for the the people who are really going to lean into it *and* you need the features to back that up. This part shouldn't be hard - good netcode, good lobby system, good training mode - but can't take anything for granted.

 

The first part is where you get the burst of sales, the second part is what can give a game legs. Players sticking with a game, along with solid, exciting competition does a lot to keep a game in people's mind, which can drive sales over time. 

 

Capcom unfortunately fucked the football coming and going with SF5. They released the game in the most barebones, "hardcore crowd" state they could, and that state was sub-par. Over a lot of time and patches they sort of drug it out the swamp but they did so purely on the back of the SF name and the CPT competitors providing a lot of fun matches over the years. Any other franchise has a release like SF5 and they are going to be hurting for awhile just to recover. Even SF6 can't afford to repeat that, which is why it is still in the incubator (though if the tag rumors are true I would have loved to have seen that crazy experiment).

[Shakunetsu]

3 hours ago, Doctrine_Dark said:

Thought it was interesting how SNK changed their Story Mode format from KOF13 to KOF14. In KOF13, there was a Story Mode (that I really enjoyed, since there were different paths based on the team you selected) and an Arcade Mode with endings. In KOF14, the Story Mode was basically changed to your usual Arcade Mode with endings. This was repeated in SamSho as well. 

 

I wonder how SNK is going to handle KOF15. 

 

 

And this is were I'm at about a story mode

 

-------------------

 

 

3 hours ago, Hecatom said:

The cinematic story is not for you, is for the casuals that boost the sales and then leave. 

 

Not everything in the game is tailored for everyone. 

 

Yes because I was expecting as something like PSX era story mode and Quest Mode in Soul Series or something like World Tour Mode.

 

I believe it's more better and playable for fans than what we had ended now.

 

I believe casual just pick up a bit of an information and just want to know more then thats it. 

 

And people would hit the replay button for the action and fight scenes  to be entertained but not for watching and playing the whole thing again as often as they like.

 

I believe also it's a waste on resources making it lengthy, Since people would just pic it up for a specific information.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not also the guy who wants to retire the cinematic mode but rather the one that wants to fix it and improve it.

 

By pointing common problems.

 

I was just finding a COMMON GROUND or some sort to the problem.

 

I have been talking about this for sometime in other threads and I have been in generation of multiple story threads from 2005.

 

And this is what I have find out to most of common things I have noticed as UX.

 

I believe people pick up again Cinematic Mode for certain reasons

• Hype and trends
• Updated with new scenes
• Cool fight scenes
• One Liners/ Speech
• Bits of Information

Things they don't want to Deal with when playing again

• Finding a scene
• Playing again with the same old ai
• Length

Sometimes if you would look into it it's not really the cinematic story that the casuals and fans do after in it.

• It’s what’s happening with that character. It’s about individuality.
• What's happening now
• Who is this new character and motivation
• The fight scene of there favorite character
• and where is this previous character now. 

What other option and media available that dithered the usability of a cinematic mode and help them easier to reach their goals

• Platforms like Youtube
• Wiki/ Forums

What fans and casual expected with a cinematic mode

• Writing like what they see in popular anime or blockbuster films
• Shock value surprise, Plot Twist
• Their favored character getting something better
• Cool Fight scenes

What is the purpose of the devs to introduce a story in a fighting game

• To introduce to noobies to the lore
• To be familiar with the new characters
• To know what's currently happening
• and sometimes to know the backstory of popular characters

What are common devs problem with Cinematic Mode

• Huge Resources, Budgets and Voice
• Players that finished it doesn't replay it as much as often compare to other modes or would rarely pick it up again
• Other media that could spoil the story and can cause to lose the excitement of playing it again
• Future DLC Characters contradicting their Cinematic Counterparts interpretation

Tournament Stories Doesn't Age Well in SF  -for continuous expanding and ever changing  franchise like SF. So they need to be used not frequently. It cause a lot of conflicts to future new characters emerging and new narrative

• Tournament style story is bound to evolve and continued as a revenge story like Sagat, Geese, Bison and Rugal.
• Characters in a fighting game are put for the sake of being diversity, familiarity and also fan request.
• Tournament participant characters were usually supposed to represent the best of the best or chosen by the organization
• Some champions like Alex is now highly doubted to be a champion and his character didn't also age well because of the trends and fans.
• Some of the champion isn't the best of best because large FG franchise evolves playable character library continously and it's fanbase changes taste.
• Champions should usually be invited by default in the next tournament
• SF3 and SF1 has questionable invited participants, victories, defeated and encounters. ei Joe, Mike, DeeJay, Blanka, Honda... Gen losing?
• SF2 is questionable also as a tournament same case with SF1  because it would raise more conflict to more later titles like SF Alpha
• Tournament is effective  mostly on a game that is dream match or a crossover like CVS2.
• Even Fatal Fury had been separate not the same with Garou. It had different countless KOF tournaments that is different from the tournament in the game KOF.
• Mainly because of recurring casting and some fighting game characters doesn’t age well too, So it affect their major involvement later in other games.

What are there common criticism fans throws against Cinematic Mode

• This character is doing nonsense or nothing, or out of character
• This character should have been in that role and not him or her
• This character should have not died
• This character didn't act as expected
• The story is the same story but repackage as a different one
• The story is obvious and cliche. So it is boring and redundant
• In consistency and doesn't take note of previous events

Which brings me up in which a writer should be cautious with few things in writing a fighting game story

• Character preservation.
• Character motivation.
• Character flexibility/Availability.
• Character progression should be about learning new techniques rather giving a power-up

 

 

I believe what fans and casual expect is not the same thing they are wanted and sometimes it's conflicted that cannot be solved by just doing the same thing and just having a better writer but rather the right thing to do is create a template and structure were the writings would workaround.

 

And what I came out as SOLUTION

• Having a short stories intertwining to each other so they can just pick up what they want without the feeling of emptiness.
• Having the other character in a different story not scene in a story will fix the problem of character doing things random or suddenly absent. Which makes short intertwining stories better than chapter base continuous stories.
• Focus mainly on new characters and there motivation
• Avoid it being another Ryu and Bison again
• Avoid character deaths It's not beneficial in a fighting game
• Power Level increase story of a character would only cause complication in the future because of toxic fan debates. It's okay for something temporary but would be depowered and returned to original state at the conclusion of the story.

• It's always character > appealing stories to trends, and an appealing story with good character placement in event is better.

• Each stories should have only few but very relevant cast so other characters wouldn't be force to pic up roles just like this

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe  that even having tons of writing techniques to make a specific SF story narrative appealing like tons of plot twist and jaw dropping moments to captivate  the ever-changing fans and casuals would still fail not guarantee coherence to the what is established in the past and what would be done in the future because it is a continuous expanding franchise.

 

For me what makes a better SF general story/cinematic mode is making it complimentary to what is established and something that the future general story can pick up by future writers and can be connect easily, how by avoiding complicated conclusion. How by having decent separate short stories intertwining to each other with  few focus  characters than lengthy continuous chapters that is part of one huge story that everyone is squeeze in as possible.

 

This is why prefer short stories like this

 

Spoiler

 

Even in a very few minutes a lot can be told and be informative of a particular state

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Shakunetsu

[Hecatom]

2 minutes ago, misterBee said:

Gundam is definitely an arena fighter.  Arena fighters can certainly be more than 1v1.  Dissidia NT falls into this category too.

 

I'd argue Gundam actually created the arena fighter genre in the first place when Federation vs Zeon came out a million years ago.

I know, but the fact is that there are many subtle differences between gundam and arena fighters, that make gundam feel more like an action game than an arena fighter. 

[misterBee]

5 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

I know, but the fact is that there are many subtle differences between gundam and arena fighters, that make gundam feel more like an action game than an arena fighter. 

I don't really agree.

 

The latest versions of Gundam are faster paced but that doesn't put it in a different genre.  Older versions of Gundam are just as slow if not slower than some of the Naruto games and gameplay-wise they are very similar.  Some iterations of the series have boost canceling, some of them don't.  The basic premise of an empty arena and trying to deplete the opponent's life-bar is still pretty universal.

 

Arena fighters are basically just fighting games that take place in a full 3d space, 3rd person view, and may or may not be team-based with shared HP.  You might even argue that modern arena fighters descend from Cyber Sled or Virtual On, which were also pretty similar. 

 

The differences between different arena games are like comparing SF and Tekken -- same basic type of game, just a lot of different details in regards to the game systems.

[DarkSakul]

Storybin a fighting game is like the story in a porno, yeah it explains vaguely who hitting who and why, but in the end no one here for the story. 

[Chun-Li_Forever]

19 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

 

And this is were I'm at about a story mode

 

-------------------

 

 

 

Yes because I was expecting as something like PSX era story mode and Quest Mode in Soul Series or something like World Tour Mode.

 

I believe it's more better and playable for fans than what we had ended now.

 

I believe casual just pick up a bit of an information and just want to know more then thats it. 

 

And people would hit the replay button for the action and fight scenes  to be entertained but not for watching and playing the whole thing again as often as they like.

 

I believe also it's a waste on resources making it lengthy, Since people would just pic it up for a specific information.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not also the guy who wants to retire the cinematic mode but rather the one that wants to fix it and improve it.

 

By pointing common problems.

 

I was just finding a COMMON GROUND or some sort to the problem.

 

I have been talking about this for sometime in other threads and I have been in generation of multiple story threads from 2005.

 

And this is what I have find out to most of common things I have noticed as UX.

 

I believe people pick up again Cinematic Mode for certain reasons

• Hype and trends
• Updated with new scenes
• Cool fight scenes
• One Liners/ Speech
• Bits of Information

Things they don't want to Deal with when playing again

• Finding a scene
• Playing again with the same old ai
• Length

Sometimes if you would look into it it's not really the cinematic story that the casuals and fans do after in it.

• It’s what’s happening with that character. It’s about individuality.
• What's happening now
• Who is this new character and motivation
• The fight scene of there favorite character
• and where is this previous character now. 

What other option and media available that dithered the usability of a cinematic mode and help them easier to reach their goals

• Platforms like Youtube
• Wiki/ Forums

What fans and casual expected with a cinematic mode

• Writing like what they see in popular anime or blockbuster films
• Shock value surprise, Plot Twist
• Their favored character getting something better
• Cool Fight scenes

What is the purpose of the devs to introduce a story in a fighting game

• To introduce to noobies to the lore
• To be familiar with the new characters
• To know what's currently happening
• and sometimes to know the backstory of popular characters

What are common devs problem with Cinematic Mode

• Huge Resources, Budgets and Voice
• Players that finished it doesn't replay it as much as often compare to other modes or would rarely pick it up again
• Other media that could spoil the story and can cause to lose the excitement of playing it again
• Future DLC Characters contradicting their Cinematic Counterparts interpretation

Tournament Stories Doesn't Age Well in SF  -for continuous expanding and ever changing  franchise like SF. So they need to be used not frequently. It cause a lot of conflicts to future new characters emerging and new narrative

• Tournament style story is bound to evolve and continued as a revenge story like Sagat, Geese, Bison and Rugal.
• Characters in a fighting game are put for the sake of being diversity, familiarity and also fan request.
• Tournament participant characters were usually supposed to represent the best of the best or chosen by the organization
• Some champions like Alex is now highly doubted to be a champion and his character didn't also age well because of the trends and fans.
• Some of the champion isn't the best of best because large FG franchise evolves playable character library continously and it's fanbase changes taste.
• Champions should usually be invited by default in the next tournament
• SF3 and SF1 has questionable invited participants, victories, defeated and encounters. ei Joe, Mike, DeeJay, Blanka, Honda... Gen losing?
• SF2 is questionable also as a tournament same case with SF1  because it would raise more conflict to more later titles like SF Alpha
• Tournament is effective  mostly on a game that is dream match or a crossover like CVS2.
• Even Fatal Fury had been separate not the same with Garou. It had different countless KOF tournaments that is different from the tournament in the game KOF.
• Mainly because of recurring casting and some fighting game characters doesn’t age well too, So it affect their major involvement later in other games.

What are there common criticism fans throws against Cinematic Mode

• This character is doing nonsense or nothing, or out of character
• This character should have been in that role and not him or her
• This character should have not died
• This character didn't act as expected
• The story is the same story but repackage as a different one
• The story is obvious and cliche. So it is boring and redundant
• In consistency and doesn't take note of previous events

Which brings me up in which a writer should be cautious with few things in writing a fighting game story

• Character preservation.
• Character motivation.
• Character flexibility/Availability.
• Character progression should be about learning new techniques rather giving a power-up

 

 

I believe what fans and casual expect is not the same thing they are wanted and sometimes it's conflicted that cannot be solved by just doing the same thing and just having a better writer but rather the right thing to do is create a template and structure were the writings would workaround.

 

And what I came out as SOLUTION

• Having a short stories intertwining to each other so they can just pick up what they want without the feeling of emptiness.
• Having the other character in a different story not scene in a story will fix the problem of character doing things random or suddenly absent. Which makes short intertwining stories better than chapter base continuous stories.
• Focus mainly on new characters and there motivation
• Avoid it being another Ryu and Bison again
• Avoid character deaths It's not beneficial in a fighting game
• Power Level increase story of a character would only cause complication in the future because of toxic fan debates. It's okay for something temporary but would be depowered and returned to original state at the conclusion of the story.

• It's always character > appealing stories to trends, and an appealing story with good character placement in event is better.

• Each stories should have only few but very relevant cast so other characters wouldn't be force to pic up roles just like this

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe  that even having tons of writing techniques to make a specific SF story narrative appealing like tons of plot twist and jaw dropping moments to captivate  the ever-changing fans and casuals would still fail not guarantee coherence to the what is established in the past and what would be done in the future because it is a continuous expanding franchise.

 

For me what makes a better SF general story/cinematic mode is making it complimentary to what is established and something that the future general story can pick up by future writers and can be connect easily, how by avoiding complicated conclusion. How by having decent separate short stories intertwining to each other with  few focus  characters than lengthy continuous chapters that is part of one huge story that everyone is squeeze in as possible.

 

This is why prefer short stories like this

 

  Hide contents

 

Even in a very few minutes a lot can be told and be informative of a particular state

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes to (pretty much) everything you said

[GetTheTables]

Holy fuck I thought I had long posts

 

[Hecatom]

21 minutes ago, misterBee said:

I don't really agree.

 

The latest versions of Gundam are faster paced but that doesn't put it in a different genre.  Older versions of Gundam are just as slow if not slower than some of the Naruto games and gameplay-wise they are very similar.  Some iterations of the series have boost canceling, some of them don't.  The basic premise of an empty arena and trying to deplete the opponent's life-bar is still pretty universal.

 

Arena fighters are basically just fighting games that take place in a full 3d space, 3rd person view, and may or may not be team-based with shared HP.  You might even argue that modern arena fighters descend from Cyber Sled or Virtual On, which were also pretty similar. 

 

The differences between different arena games are like comparing SF and Tekken -- same basic type of game, just a lot of different details in regards to the game systems.

Nigga, i am not arguing that they arent, i am saying that i PERSONALLY dont consider them Arena Fighters since there are enough distinctions on how they feel that for me are more like action games than arena fighters.

 

Is something about the gameplay loop, and how you approach them.

They are not just mindless hit attack button and sometimes special button.

 

It is why i said, i personally instead, saying outright they arent.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Hecatom

[misterBee]

11 minutes ago, GetTheTables said:

Holy fuck I thought I had long posts

MEGASHOCK essay contest when?

[KingTubb]

1 minute ago, misterBee said:

MEGASHOCK essay contest when?

As soon as TrippleTopper shows up 

[Hecatom]

2 hours ago, Shakunetsu said:

 

 

And this is were I'm at about a story mode

 

-------------------

 

 

 

Yes because I was expecting as something like PSX era story mode and Quest Mode in Soul Series or something like World Tour Mode.

 

I believe it's more better and playable for fans than what we had ended now.

 

I believe casual just pick up a bit of an information and just want to know more then thats it. 

 

And people would hit the replay button for the action and fight scenes  to be entertained but not for watching and playing the whole thing again as often as they like.

 

I believe also it's a waste on resources making it lengthy, Since people would just pic it up for a specific information.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not also the guy who wants to retire the cinematic mode but rather the one that wants to fix it and improve it.

 

By pointing common problems.

 

I was just finding a COMMON GROUND or some sort to the problem.

 

I have been talking about this for sometime in other threads and I have been in generation of multiple story threads from 2005.

 

And this is what I have find out to most of common things I have noticed as UX.

 

I believe people pick up again Cinematic Mode for certain reasons

• Hype and trends
• Updated with new scenes
• Cool fight scenes
• One Liners/ Speech
• Bits of Information

Things they don't want to Deal with when playing again

• Finding a scene
• Playing again with the same old ai
• Length

Sometimes if you would look into it it's not really the cinematic story that the casuals and fans do after in it.

• It’s what’s happening with that character. It’s about individuality.
• What's happening now
• Who is this new character and motivation
• The fight scene of there favorite character
• and where is this previous character now. 

What other option and media available that dithered the usability of a cinematic mode and help them easier to reach their goals

• Platforms like Youtube
• Wiki/ Forums

What fans and casual expected with a cinematic mode

• Writing like what they see in popular anime or blockbuster films
• Shock value surprise, Plot Twist
• Their favored character getting something better
• Cool Fight scenes

What is the purpose of the devs to introduce a story in a fighting game

• To introduce to noobies to the lore
• To be familiar with the new characters
• To know what's currently happening
• and sometimes to know the backstory of popular characters

What are common devs problem with Cinematic Mode

• Huge Resources, Budgets and Voice
• Players that finished it doesn't replay it as much as often compare to other modes or would rarely pick it up again
• Other media that could spoil the story and can cause to lose the excitement of playing it again
• Future DLC Characters contradicting their Cinematic Counterparts interpretation

Tournament Stories Doesn't Age Well in SF  -for continuous expanding and ever changing  franchise like SF. So they need to be used not frequently. It cause a lot of conflicts to future new characters emerging and new narrative

• Tournament style story is bound to evolve and continued as a revenge story like Sagat, Geese, Bison and Rugal.
• Characters in a fighting game are put for the sake of being diversity, familiarity and also fan request.
• Tournament participant characters were usually supposed to represent the best of the best or chosen by the organization
• Some champions like Alex is now highly doubted to be a champion and his character didn't also age well because of the trends and fans.
• Some of the champion isn't the best of best because large FG franchise evolves playable character library continously and it's fanbase changes taste.
• Champions should usually be invited by default in the next tournament
• SF3 and SF1 has questionable invited participants, victories, defeated and encounters. ei Joe, Mike, DeeJay, Blanka, Honda... Gen losing?
• SF2 is questionable also as a tournament same case with SF1  because it would raise more conflict to more later titles like SF Alpha
• Tournament is effective  mostly on a game that is dream match or a crossover like CVS2.
• Even Fatal Fury had been separate not the same with Garou. It had different countless KOF tournaments that is different from the tournament in the game KOF.
• Mainly because of recurring casting and some fighting game characters doesn’t age well too, So it affect their major involvement later in other games.

What are there common criticism fans throws against Cinematic Mode

• This character is doing nonsense or nothing, or out of character
• This character should have been in that role and not him or her
• This character should have not died
• This character didn't act as expected
• The story is the same story but repackage as a different one
• The story is obvious and cliche. So it is boring and redundant
• In consistency and doesn't take note of previous events

Which brings me up in which a writer should be cautious with few things in writing a fighting game story

• Character preservation.
• Character motivation.
• Character flexibility/Availability.
• Character progression should be about learning new techniques rather giving a power-up

 

 

I believe what fans and casual expect is not the same thing they are wanted and sometimes it's conflicted that cannot be solved by just doing the same thing and just having a better writer but rather the right thing to do is create a template and structure were the writings would workaround.

 

And what I came out as SOLUTION

• Having a short stories intertwining to each other so they can just pick up what they want without the feeling of emptiness.
• Having the other character in a different story not scene in a story will fix the problem of character doing things random or suddenly absent. Which makes short intertwining stories better than chapter base continuous stories.
• Focus mainly on new characters and there motivation
• Avoid it being another Ryu and Bison again
• Avoid character deaths It's not beneficial in a fighting game
• Power Level increase story of a character would only cause complication in the future because of toxic fan debates. It's okay for something temporary but would be depowered and returned to original state at the conclusion of the story.

• It's always character > appealing stories to trends, and an appealing story with good character placement in event is better.

• Each stories should have only few but very relevant cast so other characters wouldn't be force to pic up roles just like this

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I believe  that even having tons of writing techniques to make a specific SF story narrative appealing like tons of plot twist and jaw dropping moments to captivate  the ever-changing fans and casuals would still fail not guarantee coherence to the what is established in the past and what would be done in the future because it is a continuous expanding franchise.

 

For me what makes a better SF general story/cinematic mode is making it complimentary to what is established and something that the future general story can pick up by future writers and can be connect easily, how by avoiding complicated conclusion. How by having decent separate short stories intertwining to each other with  few focus  characters than lengthy continuous chapters that is part of one huge story that everyone is squeeze in as possible.

 

This is why prefer short stories like this

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Even in a very few minutes a lot can be told and be informative of a particular state

 

 

 

 

Your idea sound nice and all (except some really questionable bullet points) , but is too much effort for something that wouldnt be played much by the vast majority/would end be played just a few times.

Dont believe me? just go to any site that allows you to see agregates of trophies for fgs, fps, etc and see how muuch of the percentage of the playerbase has finished story modes.

 

Unless the story mode is your means for unlocking stuff like in racing games, you will see that most multiplayer games have their campaings/story modes having the lowest percentage of completition.

 

Keep in mind that most games operate under the minimal viable product premise, then building up as means to add value to their games, but said value is always tied to a cost, and companies will always try to keep that in the low spectrum.

Specially when you are dealing with a genre that is niche and dont have the luxury to be a staple name within the genre.

 

You will need to tie some form of progression or unlocks to a mode like that to entice players to use it.

But then, you are on a position where you are taking away players from the core experience that is fighting other people online.

 

We have seen some of your ideas toyed already in single player modes in games like MK and INJ2, and they even tied unlocking mechanics to them, yet, those modes were pretty barren, since those who stayed with the game, are more interested in playing against people than playing against the cpu.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Hecatom

[Vhozite]

I think that if we want FGs to get more draw then we gotta have robust single player options. A story mode, some alternate modes like arcade, some kind of character customization, and maybe some unlockable stuff so people grind. 
 

If a FG is going to skim on that stuff (*coughSFVcough*), I think they are better off going F2P. People want a “full experience” when they drop $60 on a game, but a lot of F2P are completely focused on multiplayer.

[Hecatom]

18 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Nigga, i am not arguing that they arent, i am saying that i PERSONALLY dont consider them Arena Fighters since there are enough distinctions on how they feel that for me are more like action games than arena fighters.

 

Is something about the gameplay loop, and how you approach them.

They are not just mindless hit attack button and sometimes special button.

 

It is why i said, i personally instead, saying outright they arent.

To add on this post, the fact that most arena fighters, the arena doesnt even have an impact on how you approach the fights, is by itself an irony that is amusing.

 

I think that of all games that are categorized on the Arena Umbrella, only Dissidia NT puts an emphasis on it, and Gundam.

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Hecatom

[GetTheTables]

9 minutes ago, KingTubb said:

As soon as TrippleTopper shows up 

And Dime.

[Shakunetsu]

If they can keep it along 15 minutes max playing time since it's just focused in few characters and more on matches and FMV are just on introduction and completion of goals of the character they are playing with which is involved in the short story

 

That would also unlocked another short story after completion of that story.

 

But Yes the whole thing is just good on paper since it's not something had done before and agree that player retention and hook has been shorter nowadays. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Shakunetsu

[Illwill88]

4 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I think that if we want FGs to get more draw then we gotta have robust single player options. A story mode, some alternate modes like arcade, some kind of character customization, and maybe some unlockable stuff so people grind. 
 

If a FG is going to skim on that stuff (*coughSFVcough*), I think they are better off going F2P. People want a “full experience” when they drop $60 on a game, but a lot of F2P are completely focused on multiplayer.

This is pretty much what I was trying to say.

Story mode is cool and all but if they're expecting people to pay 60 (soon to be 70) dollarsn they're going to have to make fighting games jam packed. Mini games, challenges, limited time events everything you see in other live service games.

 

To be honest vanilla sfv should have been f2p.

 

[Hecatom]

3 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I think that if we want FGs to get more draw then we gotta have robust single player options. A story mode, some alternate modes like arcade, some kind of character customization, and maybe some unlockable stuff so people grind. 
 

If a FG is going to skim on that stuff (*coughSFVcough*), I think they are better off going F2P. People want a “full experience” when they drop $60 on a game, but a lot of F2P are completely focused on multiplayer.

The thing is that SP modes player retention will always be limited, they can drive sales and boost them, but you will always end with most of the playerbase interested on that leaving.

 

If you really want to add more drwa, but also keep more player retention, then SP should focus more into helping people to transition into the multiplayer aspect, while also serving as an stepping stone for the player to learn about the game and be able to apply what they learned into their gameplay on the multiplayer aspect.

 

You can add stuff like what DBFZ added that lets you throw party battles where you have fights where each character is a player, having either matches between 2 teams of 3, or a team of 3 fights a boss battle.

 

Hell, if you could add stuff that GBFVS added, you could have players doing a rush mode beatem up mode where they have  boss battle at the end.

Give them a reason to jump online to play with friends, instead of playing a subpar experience against the cpu.

[Hecatom]

4 minutes ago, Illwill88 said:

This is pretty much what I was trying to say.

Story mode is cool and all but if they're expecting people to pay 60 (soon to be 70) dollarsn they're going to have to make fighting games jam packed. Mini games, challenges, limited time events everything you see in other live service games.

 

To be honest vanilla sfv should have been f2p.

 

Player expectation is something that always varies from person to person (just look at the swines that expect every game to be packed with 60+ chars character balance and variety be damned), and on this day and age where you also have to compete with games that try to be a second job forcing you to login every day to play, fgs will always have an uphill battle.

 

 

[Shakunetsu]

6 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I think that if we want FGs to get more draw then we gotta have robust single player options. A story mode, some alternate modes like arcade, some kind of character customization, and maybe some unlockable stuff so people grind. 

 

This is why I like Quest Mode or some kind or World Tour.

 

But without customization and power ups. And What it does is offer is random challenges and task like restriction for specific fights that force players to manage their resources well because some AI they need to deal with had buffed and requirement to be beaten.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Shakunetsu

[Illwill88]

1 minute ago, Hecatom said:

Player expectation is something that always varies from person to person (just look at the swines that expect every game to be packed with 60+ chars character balance and variety be damned), and on this day and age where you also have to compete with games that try to be a second job forcing you to login every day to play, fgs will always have an uphill battle.

 

 

Absolutely right, hopefully developers figure it out and strike the right balance. But in the end everyone won't be pleased. When it's all said and done fighting games are niche for the most part. There's a couple exceptions but they're just that.

 

The core fighting game fans and casuals are looking for different things. Hopefully a game will be able to deliver something for everybody.

 

[Shakunetsu]

3 minutes ago, Illwill88 said:

Story mode is cool and all but if they're expecting people to pay 60 (soon to be 70) dollarsn they're going to have to make fighting games jam packed. Mini games, challenges, limited time events everything you see in other live service games.

 

I believe the best example is Tatsunoko VS Capcom, I liked mini games but it doesn't make the player to fully integrated in the game. 

 

And Yes Challenges.

 

Or Dramatic Modes, Tag Mode  and Team Battle were something would sell out for casual base. but capcom doesn't do this more often compare to NRS. Those should be an obvious casual attract staple already.

 

Those modes doesn't even need to be balanced or whatsover because they were not supposed to be treated equal to the default mode.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Shakunetsu

[Illwill88]

Off the top of my head for 2d games at least they could do a side scroller type of mini game to familiarize you with characters and game mechanics in general. 

 

You pick ryu certain enemies would only be able to be killed certain ways. These would be easy to kill low level guys (low,high,overhead) etc. Maybe a enemy that has some sort of projectile and you tatsu him, one that jumps that's gotta be aa'd But so on until you reach a boss and put it all together. Then do this for the whole cast and have higher difficulty ones for  each character with unlocks and shit to keep people motivated. Then when they play online they have a decent grasp.

 

 

Edit-and yes I realize this is really similar to gg's tutorial but I'm talking about making more of a mini game of it.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Illwill88

[Shakunetsu]

Just now, Illwill88 said:

Off the top of my head for 2d games at least they could do a side scroller type of mini game to familiarize you with characters and game mechanics in general. 

 

You pick ryu certain enemies would only be able to be killed certain ways. These would be easy to kill low level guys (low,high,overhead) etc. Maybe a enemy that has some sort of projectile and you tatsu him, one that jumps that's gotta be aa'd But so on until you reach a boss and put it all together. Then do this for the whole cast and have higher difficulty ones for  each character with unlocks and shit to keep people motivated. Then when they play online they have a decent grasp.

 kinda like this but slightly with updates

 

 

[Mr.Cipher]

3 minutes ago, Illwill88 said:

Off the top of my head for 2d games at least they could do a side scroller type of mini game to familiarize you with characters and game mechanics in general. 

 

You pick ryu certain enemies would only be able to be killed certain ways. These would be easy to kill low level guys (low,high,overhead) etc. Maybe a enemy that has some sort of projectile and you tatsu him, one that jumps that's gotta be aa'd But so on until you reach a boss and put it all together. Then do this for the whole cast and have higher difficulty ones for  each character with unlocks and shit to keep people motivated. Then when they play online they have a decent grasp.

 

 

Edit-and yes I realize this is really similar to gg's tutorial but I'm talking about making more of a mini game of it.

You mean Granblues Story Mode. Cause thats exactly what you did there.

[M A R T I A N]

3 minutes ago, Illwill88 said:

Off the top of my head for 2d games at least they could do a side scroller type of mini game to familiarize you with characters and game mechanics in general. 

 

 

Edit-and yes I realize this is really similar to gg's tutorial but I'm talking about making more of a mini game of it.

So, Guilty Gear Judgement then? 

[Illwill88]

😂😂 yes like those games.

 

I even put a edit saying like gg (never played gbf) before y'all commented. 

[Vhozite]

I want just enough single player so that casuals buy in and keep bankrolling my favorite games. 

[Hecatom]

8 minutes ago, M A R T I A N said:

So, Guilty Gear Judgement then? 

And Isuka

[Hecatom]

Just now, Vhozite said:

I want just enough single player so that casuals buy in and keep bankrolling my favorite games. 

Tekken 7 sold very well without much sp content, so that alone proves that sp content is not really necessary.

It can be a factor, but not the only way you can entice casuals to buy your game.

 

If we branch out fgs, OW is a multiplayer experience, which proves my point even further.

[M A R T I A N]

7 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

And Isuka

Is that game a side scroller? Huh. I always thought it was some weird Omega version of Accent Core. 

[Volt]

52 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

If a FG is going to skim on that stuff (*coughSFVcough*), I think they are better off going F2P. People want a “full experience” when they drop $60 on a game, but a lot of F2P are completely focused on multiplayer.

You nailed it.

 

When you get a release like SFV had, you can't help but ask yourself "Why tf did I drop 60 bucks on this?".