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The Street Fighter V Thread

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Scrub rant of the day: I hate how little recovery normal throws have. Maybe it’s just me but it feels impossible to consistently punish a whiffed throw even when it’s right in front of you. Most of the animations are relatively subtle and by the time you notice they whiffed, the other guy can hits his button. I get CH and it drives me up the fucking wall. 
 

On paper it doesn’t look that bad. Data says they are 24f total (5 start up, 3 active, 17 recovery). Basically a fast medium button. But then in an actual match I  can almost never whiff punish it, especially looking out for all the other things that happen at that range. Maybe it’s online stuff, but idk

 

/end rant

I actually agree. I wish you could react to the throw wiff with any consistency rather than just preemptively smacking buttons to try to predict the tech point.

 

To add to scrub quotes. I want hop-dashes to die in a fire. Either don’t have dashes or have real dashes.

 

Edit: to add a bit more data. A raw (unconsidered) reaction is about 17-20 frames. So if you react on frame 17, that only gives you 7 frames before they have recovered. Most button used in that situation are, at best, barely less than 7 frames making the window very small in practice.

Edited by FlyingVe
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

I've shimmied people with Zeku's slow butted 12 frame fierce. You gotta practice my guy.

That is not what I’m talking about and you know it. If you are reacting to throw whiff with with a 12f button you’d make more money trying to catch bullets with your super human reactions. 
 

But you’re not, you’re setting them up and hitting the button in anticipation of them throwing like literally everyone knows how to do. 

Edited by Vhozite
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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

But you’re not, you’re setting them up and hitting the button in anticipation of them throwing like literally everyone knows how to do. 

Part of reacting is anticipating.

 

Thats why Daigo practices whiff punishing one button. You can practice those situations and get better at them.

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ZioSerpe Level 10

ZioSerpe

Posted
Posted

So, with the +R beta getting an extension, the community I am in that was gonna do an SFV tournament this week end was asked to vote between the 2, and in the end it's gnna be a +R tournament instead, I tried pushing for SFV just for the lulz, but youngsters just not understand the importance of doing things for the lulz anymore.

I guess I gotta win the +R tournament now.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

What makes Sagat so bad in this game? It's not registering with me how a character that usually great in every game he's in to be as terrible I keep hearing his mains say. 

Iirc, bad frame data and he just doesn't play SFV. Gotta have that robbery.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

What makes Sagat so bad in this game? It's not registering with me how a character that usually great in every game he's in to be as terrible I keep hearing his mains say. 

His only great tool is his fireball, so half the cast shitting out anti-fb tools definitely doesn’t help his cause. If he had great buttons that would be fine but his buttons are just ok.
 

The rest of his tools are just ok or straight up bad. Taunt/Store VS’s on a character that always wants to be positioning or putting something on screen. Trash tier VTs in a game where characters like Urien and Ibuki exist. No 3f. Slow walkspeed, tall hitbox. 
 

Like he isn’t the worst character in the game but he’s down there. He has his fb and a couple cute built in kara-cancels, but that’s it.

 

Edit: Volt said it better in fewer words. Dude is playing the opposite SFV’s meta lmao. 

Edited by Vhozite
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted

Ken isn’t S-tier or anything, but my favorite thing about his has to be his corner carry. Basically any touch into EX.Tatsu puts you to the wall from half stage. Same thing in his back throw. Eat that shit from mid stage and you’re cornered. 
 

That plus his good damage makes me feel like I’m always in it with him, even if I’m down to a few slivers of hp with no VT. All you need is one cr.mk to put the other guy on the ropes lmao

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
Just now, Vhozite said:

Ken isn’t S-tier or anything, but my favorite thing about his has to be his corner carry. Basically any touch into EX.Tatsu puts you to the wall from half stage. Same thing in his back throw. Eat that shit from mid stage and you’re cornered. 
 

That plus his good damage makes me feel like I’m always in it with him, even if I’m down to a few slivers of hp with no VT. All you need is one cr.mk to put the other guy on the ropes lmao

Capcom really did a good job with Ken's specials. They got that flair besides DP + Flames now.

 

Can't stand his buttons tho.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Volt said:

Capcom really did a good job with Ken's specials. They got that flair besides DP + Flames now.

 

Can't stand his buttons tho.

Yeah his buttons are definitely on the stubby side like the other shotos. He’s kinda like Kage where his buttons are pretty good inside their range, but you’re still gonna get annoyed fighting your Chun’s and Cammy’s. 
 

His s.mp has decent range and cancel options, so I tend to play ball with that and cr.mk the most. His s.mk hits far away and leads to combos, but it’s one of those buttons that whiffs on crouches from max range, and the target combo followup is prone to whiffs from too far as well. Not something you can abuse against everyone, but in certain matchups it’s pretty potent as a whiff punish.

 

He also has the same s.hk as half-dozen other characters...CC and safeish with spacing. Tbh I don’t use this too much because it’s slow and even with a CC the damage you get is mediocre. It is super easy to confirm into Shinryuken tho...you have all day to confirm the hit and cancel. 

 

Idk Ken seems like one of those characters where you really have to use every button to maximize his potential. Again against the more hardcore footsies characters it can be hard but just like Kage he only needs one good hit too put you on your toes. And at the end of the day he still has a fireball. 
 

Edit: I actually think the biggest issue I’m having with him is EX Hado. It doesn’t knock down and it surprises me every time I hit it. Half the time I throw it I feel like I wasted a bar. 

Edited by Vhozite
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FlyingVe Level 3

FlyingVe

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Edit: I actually think the biggest issue I’m having with him is EX Hado. It doesn’t knock down and it surprises me every time I hit it. Half the time I throw it I feel like I wasted a bar. 

Isn't it + 1 or 2 on block?

 

Most Kens talk about EX hado as a tool for bailing on a bad confirm and not a neutral tool. Don't know if that says anything to you.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

Isn't it + 1 or 2 on block?

 

Most Kens talk about EX hado as a tool for bailing on a bad confirm and not a neutral tool. Don't know if that says anything to you.

Yeah it’s +1 on block. Probably best used for making yourself safe like you say. Subconsciously I keep trying to play him like flashy Ryu.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

I actually think the biggest issue I’m having with him is EX Hado. It doesn’t knock down and it surprises me every time I hit it. Half the time I throw it I feel like I wasted a bar. 

Honestly, if it EX Hadoken knocked down, Ken would be my main. He definitely isn’t as strong as he is in 3S, and it’s a whole different game and the super’s different, yadda yadda, but I love him in 3S, and it knocks down there and I use that when I can... Hado only knocking down during VT1 in V is a crime, especially with how many of his normals resemble his 3S buttons.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Honestly, if it EX Hadoken knocked down, Ken would be my main. He definitely isn’t as strong as he is in 3S, and it’s a whole different game and the super’s different, yadda yadda, but I love him in 3S, and it knocks down there and I use that when I can... Hado only knocking down during VT1 in V is a crime, especially with how many of his normals resemble his 3S buttons.

Yeah his hados are actually pretty legit in VT1. They all knockdown and even combo from jabs. Pretty sure EX goes to plus 3 on block, so he can get cute with that too. 
 

I really don’t like VT1 tho. It’s nice having a real VTC and knockdown fireballs, but it’s 3 bars and drains really fast. For 3 bars I feel like it needs to do a lot more. Some plus frames on a special, some neutral bypass to help you get in, a decent mixup tool to open them, something. Almost every time I pick heat rush I force a VTC with s.hk and get one or two far KDs from hados I can’t capitalize on if I’m lucky. In fact the more I think about this VT the more it seems like Ryu’s VT1 but slightly worse and more expensive.

 

Shinryuken gives way more bang for your buck imo. As soon as it’s loaded your opponent can basically never throw another fireball from anything closer than 3/4 screen without getting blown up. It can easily be confirmed into from s.hk, effectively making that button cancelable. And you can cancel into it from DP and hado to add on damage to combos. In a roundabout way it does basically everything VT1 does for less meter, and only costs you a  more situational VTC. 

Edited by Vhozite
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ZioSerpe Level 10

ZioSerpe

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Vhozite said:

Yeah his hados are actually pretty legit in VT1. They all knockdown and even combo from jabs. Pretty sure EX goes to plus 3 on block, so he can get cute with that too. 
 

I really don’t like VT1 tho. It’s nice having a real VTC and knockdown fireballs, but it’s 3 bars and drains really fast. For 3 bars I feel like it needs to do a lot more. Some plus frames on a special, some neutral bypass to help you get in, a decent mixup tool to open them, something. Almost every time I pick heat rush I force a VTC with s.hk and get one or two far KDs from hados I can’t capitalize on if I’m lucky. In fact the more I think about this VT the more it seems like Ryu’s VT1 but slightly worse and more expensive.

 

Shinryuken gives way more bang for your buck imo. As soon as it’s loaded your opponent can basically never throw another fireball from anything closer than 3/4 screen without getting blown up. It can easily be confirmed into from s.hk, effectively making that button cancelable. And you can cancel into it from DP and hado to add on damage to combos. In a roundabout way it does basically everything VT1 does for less meter, and only costs you a  more situational VTC. 

Ye but VT1 has much cooler looking conversions..

Ken's kinda trash at this point, ain't he?

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, ZioSerpe said:

Ye but VT1 has much cooler looking conversions..

Ken's kinda trash at this point, ain't he?

Oh yeah for sure it’s way cooler, which is why I preferred it at first. That is until I realized you basically never get to do the cool shit because the bar drains really fast and the VT doesn’t actually do much to help you get to the cool shit. You might get something cool off VTC but that’ll be scaled to shit. 
 

Shinryuken is kind of plain in comparison, but I don’t feel too bad because sucking up people into the fire from a mile say is funny every time lol. 
 

Im pretty sure Ken is mid or maybe low mid, but I haven’t followed him too closely. In fact I don’t know shit about the top tiers rn besides Seth getting everyone’s panties in a bunch. But for my purposes he’s fine. He’s got a DP, functional walkspeed, and functional VTs, fun combos, and a couple fun neutral tools. He’s pretty well rounded. 

Edited by Vhozite
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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, KingTubb said:

Stages are different sizes in 3S? Can you give me the rundown? Can't find anything about it online. 

 

Is Gill's stage bigger or something? 

Gill's stage is actually the smallest. Ken/Alex's stage - Jazzy NYC '99 - is the largest, so I always train there to guage corner carry. There is a handy visual list, but I'm not sure where to find it. To be honest though, it's near unnoticeable. The only noticeable size change is going straight from NYC to Gill's stage, and even then most players don't notice it.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

Maybe Karin? Her CA always seems to add a chunk of damage  no matter how many hits she's into a combo.

That’s because the first couple hits do almost no damage compared the the one big hit. It allows her to avoid more guts scaling. 
 

@Soneroi was doing all meter but no counter hits, but  I suppose it doesn’t really matter 

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted

Yeah Karin definitely can’t clear. I suspected as much but I’m in the lab right now and she can’t get much more than 500 from what I can find. Clearing 600 requires you to get around 450 (a bit less) before canceling into CA and she definitely can’t put that out without meter even in VT. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed with SFV is that a lot of the characters with high practical damage tend to struggle at the top end of impractical damage. Characters like Karin who can easily dumpster you for 300 on the ground easy actually can’t do much better than what they’re already getting. 

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

Yeah Karin definitely can’t clear. I suspected as much but I’m in the lab right now and she can’t get much more than 500 from what I can find. Clearing 600 requires you to get around 450 (a bit less) before canceling into CA and she definitely can’t put that out without meter even in VT. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed with SFV is that a lot of the characters with high practical damage tend to struggle at the top end of impractical damage. Characters like Karin who can easily dumpster you for 300 on the ground easy actually can’t do much better than what they’re already getting. 

Yeah, people say Karin spits out damage but she actually has a lower ceiling than most characters in terms of raw damage where she dumps all her resources.   It's really all about her consistent high damage conversions in neutral off mediums.  Other characters can't do nearly as much, especially from a low.  

 

High practical damage is obviously more important than twitter corner combos.  It's part of the reason Gouken was a high damage character in SF4 but sucked ass because he could never actually access that damage.  

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I'm sure Laura can. Poison maybe be able to do it with V-Trigger 1. 

So far I’m getting 589 with Laura. 
 

far charge FB, j.hp, (fireball hits) , j.hp, cr.hp xx h.fb VTC, cr.hp xx h.fb xx CA

 

What’s making this hard to figure out for me is her CA being a grab. She can’t juggle into it for damage like other characters so you’re forced to keep them on the ground. 
 

Edit: hold on I forgot to try some things. I’m pretty sure she can clear. 
 

Edit 2: Fuck 598 against Ryu. Guts is fucking her CA damage down to 47% lol

Edited by Vhozite
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Vhozite said:

So far I’m getting 589 with Laura. 
 

far charge FB, j.hp, (fireball hits) , j.hp, cr.hp xx h.fb VTC, cr.hp xx h.fb xx CA

 

What’s making this hard to figure out for me is her CA being a grab. She can’t juggle into it for damage like other characters so you’re forced to keep them on the ground. 
 

Edit: hold on I forgot to try some things. I’m pretty sure she can clear. 
 

Edit 2: Fuck 598 against Ryu. Guts is fucking her CA damage down to 47% lol

@Darc_Requiem
 

FUCK YEAH 601 with Laura baby! 
 

far charge FB, j.hp, (fireball hits) , j.hp, cr.hp xx h.fb VTC, cr.hp xx h.fb xx VS1, s.lp x 2 xx L.Elbow xx CA (601/605)

 

Edit: Gif link. Dunno how to get it to show automatically 

https://imgur.com/a/kf2ZNz9

 

 

Edited by Vhozite
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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Vhozite said:

@Darc_Requiem
 

FUCK YEAH 601 with Laura baby! 
 

far charge FB, j.hp, (fireball hits) , j.hp, cr.hp xx h.fb VTC, cr.hp xx h.fb xx VS1, s.lp x 2 xx L.Elbow xx CA (601/605)

 

Edit: Gif link. Dunno how to get it to show automatically 

https://imgur.com/a/kf2ZNz9

 

 

Just delete the "v" from the end of the URL after copy the link to your clipboard.

 

Edit: Weird that usually works for me.

 

 90MxHhJ.gif

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

Posted
  • Author
Posted
54 minutes ago, AriesWarlock said:

https://i.imgur.com/90MxHhJ.mp4

 

It's a video, actually.  Some forums can embed them automatically. Maybe @misterBeecan tell us if this functionality is coming in future updates.

This is correct.

 

.mp4 embeds are possible if you upload them as an attachment in your post (subscribers only).  Unfortunately external .mp4 embeds are not possible.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Volt said:

@VhoziteRyu might be able to pull it off. Trying to think about how'd he pull it off tho.

I'm at my wits end and I'm not even sure this would work.

 

j.HP, St.MP~HP~HK xx VTC, f.HP, St.HP xx LP DP, HP DP xx VT1 CA

 

If I got the numbers right, it should be 596. Theoretically you can add a St. MP before the TC, but the push back would likely make the 2nd miss, but maybe you can micro walk and get the link.

 

Edit: If the post VTC juggle drops, it's GG. You'd have to omit the HK from the TC and that's a crucial early heavy that's gone.

Edited by Volt
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Volt said:

I'm at my wits end and I'm not even sure this would work.

 

j.HP, St.MP~HP~HK xx VTC, f.HP, St.HP xx LP DP, HP DP xx VT1 CA

 

If I got the numbers right, it should be 596. Theoretically you can add a St. MP before the TC, but the push back would likely make the 2nd miss, but maybe you can micro walk and get the link.

the heavy kick in that target combo knocks down and doesn’t juggle into f.hp

 

edit: also how are you juggling L.DP to  H.DP? I can’t get it to work.

 

So far max I can get is 531

Edited by Vhozite
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