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Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Doctrine_Dark said:

I remember when I was watching one of my homie's stream SFV many months back. He had just reached Diamond after being stuck in it for several months.

 

Who does he get paired up with soon after?

 

Brian F and his fukkin Oro.

 

Knocked right back into Ultra Platinum. 

 

He won his next set and got the fukk outta ranked for good. I don't blame him one bit.

 

 

 

Yeah, same here. I kept running into the European pros like Phenom and Broski and at that point it's just demotivating to play.

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Doctrine_Dark Level 15

Doctrine_Dark

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Daemos said:

Bison was hidden in SF3... What are these twitter fools talking about? Here's found footage from a money match in EVO 2000...

 

 

I won the bet.

edit- @EvilCanadianthank you for continuing to use your platforms for evil. Your place is guaranteed in the new era.

 

I still remember Bison's special ending.

 

Capcom Fighting Evolution / M.Bison Ending (PS2) - YouTube

 

I know it was reused in that other game, but we don't talk about that.

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AriesWarlock Level 18

AriesWarlock

Posted
Posted

The Rumble Fish 2 video interview – story, title, characters, mechanics, development challenges, and more

TRF2-Interview_10-12-22-768x432.jpg

 

 

Here is the official transcript:

Spoiler

Mitsuhiro Tanaka, Main Programmer: “I’m Tanaka. I work at Dimps in the technology development division of Production Dept. 2.

“As the main programmer for The Rumble Fish, I oversaw the battle system, the main system that controls the flow of the game, and the SMA client-side imaging system.”

Masaharu Oomori, Main Planner: “I’m Oomori, of the planning and production division of Production Dept. 2. I was mainly in charge of coming up with and adjusting the world and characters as well as their abilities as the main planner.”

Can you tell us more about the story and world of The Rumble Fish?

Oomori: “Fighters engaged in fierce battles was the visual concept. They keep fighting despite getting hurt. It’s a gritty depiction of those scenes you see in manga and anime.

“There’s a company called Probe Nexus that holds an illegal fighting tournament in an area called Zone Prime. And in it, they bet on fighters for entertainment.

“It’s an idea born out of settings in like the Baki the Grappler or the Fight Club.

“In The Rumble Fish 1, the story more or less ends with Zen beating Greed.

“President Brad, the most powerful person in Probe Nexus, stepped down after his ultimate fighter and protege, Greed, was defeated.

“Afterwards, when The Rumble Fish 2 begins, Brad’s granddaughter Beatrice becomes the leader of Probe Nexus.

“Meanwhile, you have a conflict set up with a character named Hazama. Zen wants to surpass Greed. The Mutsuki sisters want to take revenge on Greed for killing their father. Each character has their own motivation, and as they fulfill their goals, fail to do so, or find new ones to pursue, the backbone of the story transforms.”

What’s the origin of the title’s name, The Rumble Fish?

Oomori: “If you put two Rumble Fish in one tank, they’ll fight until one of them dies–until it’s torn to shreds. I thought that was interesting.

“And they’re so beautiful. They have this striking beauty to them, but also an extremely aggressive nature.

“And I believe we talked about the breaking parts system. The way they tear each other up was an inspiration for that.”

Why were new characters added to The Rumble Fish 2?

Oomori: “Unfortunately, The Rumble Fish 1 was limited to having only 10 characters. It wasn’t a very big roster, but we actually wanted to include a couple more.

“So, we added characters to The Rumble Fish 2 that sadly didn’t make the cut to The Rumble Fish 1. Characters with different play styles which would allow more ways to play and create different match-ups.”

I’d like to discuss character settings. Mr. Tanaka, from your point of view, who is the most balanced character? And who would you say is the least balanced?

Tanaka: “In The Rumble Fish 2, each character has their own traits, so it’s very hard to speak to that in short. That said, Aran has easy-to-use projectiles, invincible moves, rushing moves and a lot of moves with good horizontal hit-checking, so he’s a very easy character to start with.”

Do you have any advice for beginners on how to use Aran?

Tanaka: “He has projectiles and rushing moves, so it would be good to learn how to zone and pressure the opponent.

“He also has easy to use anti-air moves to punish opponents that are being particularly aggressive. It would pay off learning those basic movements.

“Once you’re used to that, he also has projectiles with great hit-checking you can use for downed opponents. Time them with the moment after downing the opponent and use their long active hit-check to limit your opponent’s options.

“I think those are the best kinds of moves you can learn at first.”

What do you think sets The Rumble Fish 2 apart from other fighters in terms of game mechanics?

Tanaka: “I think The Rumble Fish‘s most defining feature is the gauge mechanic, which is divided into two, an Offense and Defense Gauge.

“You can use each of them to activate special moves or fill them both up to deal massive damage with super powerful moves called Critical Arts.

“The most important factor in The Rumble Fish is the strategy you employ when choosing how to use these two gauges in battle.”

Why did you opt for a five-button system in The Rumble Fish?

Tanaka: “We have four buttons for the light and strong punches and kicks, plus the dodge button. So, in addition to the four basic buttons, with the dodge button, we added a variety of mechanics unique to The Rumble Fish and tuned for a five-button layout.

“The base system in The Rumble Fish is one that gives the attacker the advantage. So, we needed ways for the defender to evade or launch counterattacks that fit such a system.

“Dodging was originally implemented so players could predict their opponents’ attacks and evade them gracefully. Then we fleshed it out with mechanics for wake-up and recovery after getting hit.

“The last bit of fleshing out was with Impact Breaks.

“You’d sometimes get stuck blocking an opponent that rushed relentlessly. So, we ultimately added Impact Breaks, a mechanic for players to turn the tables. By inputting the correct direction and the dodge button while blocking, you can add delay to the opponent.

“Starting from there, we were able to make a system that affords strategies with a lot of depth. We’re proud of that.”

Could you expand on the Offense and Defense Gauges? Also, why did you decide to use this system?

Tanaka: “Let me dive into the Offense Gauge and Defense Gauge respectively. First off, the Offense Gauge fills up as you hit the opponent or when you make them block.

“You can get up to three bars of this gauge, which you can then spend on offensive mechanics.

“For example, use them for offensive special moves or rush combos.

“The Defense Gauge fills up by blocking the opponent’s attacks, but it also fills up gradually on its own. You can get up to three bars of this one, too.

“You can spend these on mechanics with powerful defensive capabilities. For example, strong special moves that let you counter an opponent’s attack.

“There are mechanics that use both gauges, but by getting all three charges of both, you can use Critical Arts, the game’s most powerful special moves. So, you can try to turn the tables with that one move.”

How does this gauge system affect gameplay strategies?

Tanaka: “Since it’s split into two gauges, you have more options when you’re attacking and defending–more tricks up your sleeve, if you will.

“That gives way to a mind game like, whether to use a gauge when attacking, whether the opponent will use another gauge to rush you when defending. Then you might use a move to counterattack or crush their counter to launch your own offensive. The system allows for strategizing at a very deep level.”

Who’s your favorite character?

Oomori: “I was in charge of Boyd. I discussed the unusual element in his design as well as his abilities with Tanaka to nail down what he could do. So, he’s special to me. He also has something the other characters don’t in that he builds up his scorpion’s attack for one huge hit in the end. I got to implement that accumulative fighting style with him.”

Tanaka: “I’d have to say Viren. The reason is he was the first character we implemented with SMA. So, I ended up using him the most as an SMA character and he grew on me.”

Did you face any particular challenges during development? If so, could you go into how you worked through them?

Oomori: “The thing I most struggled with was nailing down the character designs. It took a long time. Since it was an original title, we had to think of fighting styles and designs you hadn’t seen in other fighting games. I just about went to blows with the company’s designers. Things got turbulent.

“Boyd, in particular, was one character we couldn’t settle on until the last leg of development. He’s a hit man, which is surprising because he looks nothing like one. But I think at the end we figured out something that worked.”

Tanaka: “We decided from the start of development to use SMA for the finely articulated 2D visuals. Of course, there weren’t any tools for using that on a fighting game back then, so we had to make them all from scratch at Dimps. That was quite a challenge.

“The system was also a lot of work for designers, so production took an inordinate amount of time.

“From The Rumble Fish 1 to 2, we kept improving the tools and the client-side imaging. We got them working with SMA visuals and over a wider area than had previously been possible.

“SMA, to put it simply, is a system that creates the connecting motions from one pattern to the next in 2D fighters.

“This has the benefit of connecting patterns via a motion rather than the jittery way it used to be.”

 

The Rumble Fish 2 is due out for PlayStation 5, Xbox Series, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Switch, and PC via Steam on December 8.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, TWINBLADES said:

Unironically I think SF6/T8/MK12 are gonna set such a huge precedent for modern fighting games that if nothing comes even close it's gonna be clowned on. I wonder how the air dasher community thinks about the future of the scene since so many of them seemed to hate how grounded Strive became.

I was thinking about this earlier, because as much as I love SF and MK, I am always going to need at least one versus/anime game in my rotation… It’ll probably either be MVC2 and/or GG +R/Xrd.

 

Edited by Mattatsu
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Jocelot Level 14

Jocelot

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

I was thinking about this earlier, because as much as I love SF and MK, I am always going to need at least one versus/anime game in my rotation… It’ll probably either be MVC2 and/or GG +R/Xrd.

 

Speaking of anime, you wanna play some Xrd on the weekend? I'm looking forward to giving the rollback beta a spin

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TWINBLADES said:

Unironically I think SF6/T8/MK12 are gonna set such a huge precedent for modern fighting games that if nothing comes even close it's gonna be clowned on. I wonder how the air dasher community thinks about the future of the scene since so many of them seemed to hate how grounded Strive became.

Lets chew over where every big anime franchise is at

 

Guilty Gear: Strive is the most popular game in the franchise, maybe even of any anime game ever, and it is nothing like classic airdashers. Xrd and +R have rollback but thats not the same as a new game in that style, or even patches for those games. Highly doubt this franchise will go back to how it was pre-strive either, it was too successful.

 

Blazblue: Most recent game has great rollback, but their most recent game is also old and the franchise itself is probably in the fuckin dirt. Not the worst place to be but also no future.

 

Persona 4 Arena: Back with rollback but also kinda janky rollback that's locked to 3f input delay...Will it ever be better off who knows. Will there ever be another persona arena game? Maybe but you can bet it will not play like an old arcsys game.

 

Melty Blood: Actress Again is a forever game for boomers and broke motherfuckers. Type Lumina is actually the closest thing to a modern fighting game that resembles old school anime, but between a shoddy PC port, meh lobbies, and certain divisive gameplay decisions (shieeeeld) it has a lot going against it. Still, Type Lumina has the best chance of getting where anime boomers want games to be.

 

Under-Night: In the dirt because no rollback. There is a sequel coming but no one knows when or how different it will be. French Bread being French Bread they will probably fuck up basic things that prevent it from being as popular as it could be, but at least this is hopium for people who like this kinda stuff.

 

DBFZ: Game is over, never getting patched again, the player base bitches endlessly about this patch (labcoat and fusions reeee) and even though it is getting rollback it does not have it yet. Ultimately a game that is going to be in the Xrd/+R/BBCF/P4A corner of games that once were.

 

DNF: lol, lmao

 

Overall verdict....its lookin like peak capcom era out there all over again after sf6 drops. Anime players who dont like Strive going back to getting swirlied and stuck in broom closets, except now all the games they like are old and not getting patched or are French Bread games

 

BUT
at least they all have rollback, mostly good rollback too

🥲

Edited by Shahenzan
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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Shahenzan said:

Lets chew over where every big anime franchise is at

 

Guilty Gear: Strive is the most popular game in the franchise, maybe even of any anime game ever, and it is nothing like classic airdashers. Xrd and +R have rollback but thats not the same as a new game in that style, or even patches for those games. Highly doubt this franchise will go back to how it was pre-strive either, it was too successful.

 

Blazblue: Most recent game has great rollback, but their most recent game is also old and the franchise itself is probably in the fuckin dirt. Not the worst place to be but also no future.

 

Persona 4 Arena: Back with rollback but also kinda janky rollback that's locked to 3f input delay...Will it ever be better off who knows. Will there ever be another persona arena game? Maybe but you can bet it will not play like an old arcsys game.

 

Melty Blood: Actress Again is a forever game for boomers and broke motherfuckers. Type Lumina is actually the closest thing to a modern fighting game that resembles old school anime, but between a shoddy PC port, meh lobbies, and certain divisive gameplay decisions (shieeeeld) it has a lot going against it. Still, Type Lumina has the best chance of getting where anime boomers want games to be.

 

Under-Night: In the dirt because no rollback. There is a sequel coming but no one knows when or how different it will be. French Bread being French Bread they will probably fuck up basic things that prevent it from being as popular as it could be, but at least this is hopium for people who like this kinda stuff.

 

DBFZ: Game is over, never getting patched again, the player base bitches endlessly about this patch (labcoat and fusions reeee) and even though it is getting rollback it does not have it yet. Ultimately a game that is going to be in the Xrd/+R/BBCF/P4A corner of games that once were.

 

DNF: lol, lmao

 

Overall verdict....its lookin like peak capcom era out there all over again after sf6 drops. Anime players who dont like Strive going back to getting swirlied and stuck in broom closets, except now all the games they like are old and not getting patched or are French Bread games

 

BUT
at least they all have rollback, mostly good rollback too

🥲

Forgot about the best anime game GBVS. GBVS 2 with rollback netcode would be the only ASW game to get me hype. I've given up waiting for the first game to get rollback.

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HeavensCloud said:

Forgot about the best anime game GBVS. GBVS 2 with rollback netcode would be the only ASW game to get me hype. I've given up waiting for the first game to get rollback.

I aint counting grubble that's no airdasher/wacky woohoo game

 

On the subject of rollback i think i finally see what lord @Hecatomwas always saying. The games from that era of arcsys were not built for it so it has to be forced by hardware. Ps4 cannot handle forcing it so its only on next gen/pc. Therefore, until cygames is done with grubble and done holding official events on ps4 (which iirc they are still doing) the game will not get a rollback update

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted

The issue is that to implement a rollback netcode on a game that was not designed for it from the ground they would need to do a lot of engineering to make it work in an optimal way, since they would need to rebuild the game for that.

It is not necessarily impossible, but it is time consuming.

 

I could be wrong but I think they are brute forcing ggpo, a netcode that was not originally designed for this kind of games, so it makes those implementations hardware intensive.

It is not the same to have your own tech designed for the game than having to implement something that was not designed for the game on a game that was not designed for rollback.

 

Is kind of telling that my old desktop PC that I have since 2012 can't run AC+R, while my older PC from back 2005 could run #R and both games are comparable in terms of hardware requirements, but due the rollback implementation that old PC can't run it for shit.

The same for the Samsho collection lol.

 

It is why DBFZ is only for PS5 and PC.

I hope they add the rollback for Xrd to consoles, but dunno if it is something that the old PS4 can't handle.

Since the game is basically a PS3 game running on the PS4, I would assume that it would be less hardware intensive than DBFZ, which also has a lot of more shit going on it, due the flying and 6 characters.

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted

BTW, I always found funny how people (like the stupid monkey) assumed that I was anti rollback, because they couldn't read or understood what I wrote.

They assumed that because I was pointing out the difficulties and problems of brute forcing ggpo on games and the potential of the netcode not being improved much because of it was me being a hater or something.

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted

I'm late as fuck finishing the first Game of Thrones series, but the last season was hardly unbearable trash like many said. The main problem seems to be how rushed it was.

 

The actual resolutions to alot of plots were fine but the shit was just resolved way to quickly.

Went from offing the Night King to all out war with Cersei fairly quickly, like too much happened so fast. Final season would've benefitted from a few more episodes 

 

 

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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, HD-Man said:

I'm late as fuck finishing the first Game of Thrones series, but the last season was hardly unbearable trash like many said.


It really was. If you were a book reader, and/or you grew up with the show for nearly 10 years only for it to implode like that. It was a mini-depression when it happened.

It's not the resolutions that were the problem as you said, it was the way they handled what could've been the greatest show of all time. The show needed at least another 2 seasons (with the writing quality at least on part with Seasons 5-6 because 7-8 sucked) to fully flesh out everything. HBO and Martin both wanted 10-12 seasons. It was Dumb and Dumber who did this, they deserve all the hate they get.

Edited by Daemos
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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HD-Man said:

I'm late as fuck finishing the first Game of Thrones series, but the last season was hardly unbearable trash like many said. The main problem seems to be how rushed it was.

 

The actual resolutions to alot of plots were fine but the shit was just resolved way to quickly.

Went from offing the Night King to all out war with Cersei fairly quickly, like too much happened so fast. Final season would've benefitted from a few more episodes 

 

 

Yeah, it started to happen in season 7.  I'm surprised that season got a free pass from most people cause that's when shit started going downhill.  All of the slow burn  and buildup of season's 1-6 was thrown out the window so they could tie up loose ends.  The last 2 seasons felt like a completely different show.  

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TWINBLADES Level 15

TWINBLADES

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HD-Man said:

I'm late as fuck finishing the first Game of Thrones series, but the last season was hardly unbearable trash like many said. The main problem seems to be how rushed it was.

 

The actual resolutions to alot of plots were fine but the shit was just resolved way to quickly.

Went from offing the Night King to all out war with Cersei fairly quickly, like too much happened so fast. Final season would've benefitted from a few more episodes 

 

 

Naw we not doing this. Season 8 was fucking garbage. 7 had some salvageable moments but it’s pacing is blisteringly fast which caused them to meme their way through the final portion. The fact that S8 had an extra year of production and it turned into what we got is actually appalling. 
 

 

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Daemos Level 15

Daemos

Posted
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, delete_me said:

I fell out of GoT in Season ... 6? with the whole chapter about the Sand Snakes, because that almost felt like a sitcom at times and completely ruined the tone for me.


Yeah the Sand Snakes was the most blatant moment of "this is the beginning of the end". But Season 6 still had great moments like Cersei and the Sept. S7 and S8 is when the show jumped the shark. It also happens to be the moment when the Show fully surpassed the book material and they were basically winging it.

Edited by Daemos
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Doctrine_Dark Level 15

Doctrine_Dark

Posted
Posted

@TWINBLADESHonestly, I'd say my breakthrough moment was realizing I could really win consistently. Especially against tough players. And that's something I didn't fully understand for a long time because I didn't feel consistent enough. 

 

Every league above me felt "impossible" to reach...until I actually reached it. As cool as it was hitting those leagues, it wasn't enough for a breakthrough.

 

 

 

 

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted (edited)

There were some decent story arcs and good episodes in the final season of GoT, but then they closed out with such weak "we clearly don't care about this project anymore" writing for the story conclusion. 

 

Jaime finally breaks off from Cersei?  Nah, trash it, he'll dump that redemption arc to go suicide by standing in the wrong place. 

 

Daenerys gets the thing she's worked for the entire series and is slightly disappointed with it?  Time to turn into a murder hobo. 

 

Jon Snow learns all the secrets of his heritage?  Nah, fuck it, goes beyond the wall to chase memories of a really bad breakup. 

 

All the claimants to the throne off themselves stupidly or fuck off on a never ending snow-shoe hike?  Fuck it, let's give it to the kid who can't possibly have any heirs so all this shit just happens all over again in like another 20 to 30 years.

Edited by Reticently
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

Yeah, it started to happen in season 7.  I'm surprised that season got a free pass from most people cause that's when shit started going downhill.  All of the slow burn  and buildup of season's 1-6 was thrown out the window so they could tie up loose ends.  The last 2 seasons felt like a completely different show.  

Nah cracks were definitely showing in Season 6. If 7-8 were the same quality as 1-5 it wouldn’t be as noticeable but writing takes a noticeable dive in S6 and never gets better. 
 

S1-5 GoT are the best TV I’ve ever watched,  6 is mediocre but salvageable, 7-8 it was obvious they no longer gave a fuck.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Reticently said:

Daenerys gets the thing she's worked for the entire series and is slightly disappointed with it?  Time to turn into a murder hobo. 

This is the only end of series complaint I vehemently disagree with. Literally the entire show post S1 is her violently subjugating foreign adversaries and her advisors having to reign in her (typically violent) impulses. Even in S1 she gets into trouble ignoring people who clearly know better than her. The only reason she’s doesn’t come across just as maliciously as the rest of the power players is because “liberating muh slaves”.
 

I went into the show knowing absolutely nothing about it and reading online posts about it as I went along I felt like the only person who never liked Daenerys. Her burning down Kings Landing was the most believable part of S8.

Edited by Vhozite
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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sonero said:

Night King gets built up for years, gets shanked by Arya. AY!

Bro don’t get me started on this. Arya was my favorite character and the did her so dirty. 
 

Arya has a kill list a dozen names long and kills less than half (~25% iirc) of her actual targets, then hijacks the boss fight of an almost totally separate arc who she has no meaningful connection with in the most anticlimactic way possible.

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Reticently Level 16

Reticently

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/20/2022 at 10:05 AM, Vhozite said:

This is the only end of series complaint I vehemently disagree with. Literally the entire show post S1 is her violently subjugating foreign adversaries and her advisors having to reign in her (typically violent) impulses. Even in S1 she gets into trouble ignoring people who clearly know better than her. The only reason she’s doesn’t come across just as maliciously as the rest of the power players is because “liberating muh slaves”.

Nah- for me it's just way too big a delta from "I'm avenging kids" to "let's melt families".

 

She's violent, but in ways she justifies to herself.  The rampage was out of character and just seems to me like an excuse for the writers to put someone else on the throne to close out the show.

Edited by Reticently
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Darc_Requiem Level 20

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

This is the only end of series complaint I vehemently disagree with. Literally the entire show post S1 is her violently subjugating foreign adversaries and her advisors having to reign in her (typically violent) impulses. Even in S1 she gets into trouble ignoring people who clearly know better than her. The only reason she’s doesn’t come across just as maliciously as the rest of the power players is because “liberating muh slaves”.
 

I went into the show knowing absolutely nothing about it and reading online posts about it as I went along I felt like the only person who never liked Daenerys. Her burning down Kings Landing was the most believable part of S8.

My issue with the Daenerys situation is the issue I had with Season 8 on the whole. Things happened too fast. Daenerys going off the rails hinted at throughout the series. He father was called the Mad King because he went off the rails and started burning people of alive. Her decent into madness was supposed to be a slow burn. GoT should have been 10 seasons like HBO wanted. The showrunners wanted 6 and they compromised. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if they got their way. The show runners thought they were getting a Star Wars bag from Disney and wanted GoT over ASAP. Karma got them in the end because after GoT Season 8, Disney shit canned them from their Star Wars project due to it's poor quality and reception. It's like trashing your current job because you have a new one lined up and the new job falling through after you already quit. 

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