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misterBee

By misterBee
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Sonichuman Level 18

Sonichuman

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Matt Booty says M$'s goal is to try to have 4 first party games a year

https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/1667988648237887488?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1667988648237887488|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=

 

Persona 3 Reload will only be a remake of the first release of Persona 3 and won't contain any of the content from FES or Portable, this includes the female protagonist

https://www.ign.com/articles/persona-3-reload-wont-include-content-from-fes-or-portable-including-the-female-protagonist

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MillionX Level 16

MillionX

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D4 adventures--- and finally after about 70 hours of playing, I got around to unlocking the horse.  I did more of the main story missions yesterday to finally get that acquired.

 

In terms of the story; there's quite a bit going on here that I'm loving... especially the more dark and serious tone of everything presented here. (a nice change of pace from the silly nonsense going on in the average mainstream movies and shows these days)  I have Necro up to level 52 so now I'm into the paragon points system.

 

I was playing this in co-op with 2 friends yesterday again....and yeah it's a bit annoying to limit the necro's playstyle with the "blight/darkness" build because too much of those powers blacks out the screen for your allies.  I could only really go all out with that when I saw they were out of the way of a boss or certain other major threats.

Edited by MillionX
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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The Xbox show was far better than Sony's recent outing. I hope for the sake of competition their 1st party games actually hit the mark. Starfield looks more interesting to me than before. Still hesitant to buy into Bugthesda. That said, even if I did have an Xbox Series X, I'd snag it on PC. This 30fps shit  is getting out of hand. Give the player some options, why isn't there a 1440p 60 mode for Series X? Pre-launch Xbox was the most bullish on high refresh gaming and they have not delivered. Dadnarok gave the player a fuck ton of resolution and FPS modes to choose from. How does a PC developer like Bethesda not do the same?

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Wellman Level 14

Wellman

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Posted
18 hours ago, Sonichuman said:

 

Persona 3 Reload will only be a remake of the first release of Persona 3 and won't contain any of the content from FES or Portable, this includes the female protagonist

https://www.ign.com/articles/persona-3-reload-wont-include-content-from-fes-or-portable-including-the-female-protagonist

I don't get why Atlus keeps fucking this up.

 

Honestly, I am not a fan of Persona 3, like the characters but not the game. That being said, they made FES, which was released at a time the brand wasn't that strong outside of Japan hence is rare and then make Portable, which because of the hardware concessions being made are understandable. But they have had the recent rerelease on modern platforms and now this remake to do things like add in the FES content or the fan favorite female character option from Portable into one definitive package and they keep not doing it. I state again, I am not a fan but that is some bullshit like if Nintendo tried to remake a Metroid or Zelda game without giving a map feature. Or Star Fox without voice over lines

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RSG3 Level 18

RSG3

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wellman said:

I don't get why Atlus keeps fucking this up.

 

Honestly, I am not a fan of Persona 3, like the characters but not the game. That being said, they made FES, which was released at a time the brand wasn't that strong outside of Japan hence is rare and then make Portable, which because of the hardware concessions being made are understandable. But they have had the recent rerelease on modern platforms and now this remake to do things like add in the FES content or the fan favorite female character option from Portable into one definitive package and they keep not doing it. I state again, I am not a fan but that is some bullshit like if Nintendo tried to remake a Metroid or Zelda game without giving a map feature. Or Star Fox without voice over lines

I'm not sure they are. FemC was a concession for how lazy the PSP port was, putting her in the game would require making 2 campaigns since hers is different. 

 

As for FES it's not terribly popular content, it undermines the games ending, and it's nothing but the part of the game that gets old. If you wanna play that much if a Dungeon crawler you might as well play SMT...

 

But I dunno, that my opinion. 

 

Besides of everything's in the original release how are they gonna bilk us for a full priced directors cut next year? Eh eeeeh? 

 

giphy_7.gif

Edited by RSG3
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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

The Xbox show was far better than Sony's recent outing. I hope for the sake of competition their 1st party games actually hit the mark. Starfield looks more interesting to me than before. Still hesitant to buy into Bugthesda. That said, even if I did have an Xbox Series X, I'd snag it on PC. This 30fps shit  is getting out of hand. Give the player some options, why isn't there a 1440p 60 mode for Series X? Pre-launch Xbox was the most bullish on high refresh gaming and they have not delivered. Dadnarok gave the player a fuck ton of resolution and FPS modes to choose from. How does a PC developer like Bethesda not do the same?

1080p/60fps should be the defacto standard this generation.  It's mind boggling to me that we have games coming out in year 3 of this gen that can't get a constant 60fps.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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26 minutes ago, purbeast said:

1080p/60fps should be the defacto standard this generation.  It's mind boggling to me that we have games coming out in year 3 of this gen that can't get a constant 60fps.

So much this. I'll take 1080p/60 or 2160p/30 all day long. I have 1440p monitor for reason. I can run games with high quality settings and a high frame rate. The truth is the Series X and PS5 are 1440p/60 consoles marketed as 4K Consoles. Instead of copping to that we get 4k/30fps games.

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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

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34 minutes ago, purbeast said:

1080p/60fps should be the defacto standard this generation.  It's mind boggling to me that we have games coming out in year 3 of this gen that can't get a constant 60fps.

I mention this every time this conversation comes up:

 

60fps is never going to be the defacto standard.

 

Developers are always going to go for 30fps + higher graphics, especially as the systems continue to age.  Some people may have thought this was gonna be the 60fps generation, but that was only because of the long period of pandemic/console scarcity and the flood of games that were cross-gen.

 

30fps has been common since at least the PS1 days and it's not really going to change.  There are many consumers who don't care about 60fps but care a lot about visual fidelity.

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HD-Man Level 17

HD-Man

Posted
Posted (edited)

Called my self trying to grind in Lies of P so I'd be over-leveled. I'd wipe out all the enemies on the map then run all the way back to the save point to level up my strength and HP stats in preparation for a boss.

 

After so many times of doing that the game removed the Level Up option from the save point. So I pretty much gotta Get Gud and face this boss

 

The game said nah, not like that, playa. I think I just became a Souls. LMAO

Edited by HD-Man
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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6 minutes ago, misterBee said:

I mention this every time this conversation comes up:

 

60fps is never going to be the defacto standard.

 

Developers are always going to go for 30fps + higher graphics, especially as the systems continue to age.  Some people may have thought this was gonna be the 60fps generation, but that was only because of the long period of pandemic/console scarcity and the flood of games that were cross-gen.

 

30fps has been common since at least the PS1 days and it's not really going to change.  There are many consumers who don't care about 60fps but care a lot about visual fidelity.

30fps became the norm in the PS3 and 360 era. Digital Foundry did a few videos on the subject were surprised at how many more games were 60fps prior to that gen. The length of that gen caused cutbacks to be made to get games running and honestly they were sub 30fps a lot of the times. There was 8 years between the 360 and XB1. Whether people care or not comes down to what genre's they play. The FPS and FG crowd cares.  My brother is not some super hardcore gamer. He played a lot Destiny 2. When he started playing CoD, he couldn't go back to Destiny 2, at the time, because he said "It felt like he was playing under water". It surprised me. He could feel the difference, he didn't go back to Destiny 2 until the next gen patch added 60fps. The FPS crowd is a large portion of the "casual" gaming market. They notice. These companies aren't added all these 60fps modes for nothing. They are doing it because the consumers are bitching about 30fps. 

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

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Posted
17 minutes ago, misterBee said:

I mention this every time this conversation comes up:

 

60fps is never going to be the defacto standard.

 

Developers are always going to go for 30fps + higher graphics, especially as the systems continue to age.  Some people may have thought this was gonna be the 60fps generation, but that was only because of the long period of pandemic/console scarcity and the flood of games that were cross-gen.

 

30fps has been common since at least the PS1 days and it's not really going to change.  There are many consumers who don't care about 60fps but care a lot about visual fidelity.

Well the problem with your argument, is that they are trying to have 60fps modes.  Virtually every game has a performance mode where the target is 60fps. 

 

And even the fidelity modes that target 30fps can't even get a constant 30fps most of the time.  I honestly don't know how people can play games in 30fps when a 60fps mode is available.  As mentioned above, the game just feels so unresponsive in 30fps compared to 60fps.

 

All of this crap is partially why I am not a fan of the way console gaming is going in general.  If I wanted to tinker and try out different settings, I'd get a PC and do it.  I want all my PS5 games to look the same no matter where I see them or play them.  But it's too late the cat is out of the bag.  Everyone just wants to throw the latest buzzwords around now a days.

 

I want games to look the way the developer intended it to look.  I like how I can play/watch Mario Odyssey, it's going to look the same all the time, and it's going to run very smoothly.  It's the way it was designed/developed to be.

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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

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18 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

30fps became the norm in the PS3 and 360 era. Digital Foundry did a few videos on the subject were surprised at how many more games were 60fps prior to that gen. The length of that gen caused cutbacks to be made to get games running and honestly they were sub 30fps a lot of the times. There was 8 years between the 360 and XB1. Whether people care or not comes down to what genre's they play. The FPS and FG crowd cares.  My brother is not some super hardcore gamer. He played a lot Destiny 2. When he started playing CoD, he couldn't go back to Destiny 2, at the time, because he said "It felt like he was playing under water". It surprised me. He could feel the difference, he didn't go back to Destiny 2 until the next gen patch added 60fps. The FPS crowd is a large portion of the "casual" gaming market. They notice. These companies aren't added all these 60fps modes for nothing. They are doing it because the consumers are bitching about 30fps. 

60fps is nice to have, and in some cases it's necessary.

 

COD4 was 60fps and it's part of their brand.  Fighting games have always been 60fps.  Racing games are often 60fps, but not always (see: Driveclub).

 

That being said, many of the best-selling and critically acclaimed games have never had a 60fps target and only get high framerate when ported to a newer console afterwards.

 

Just off the top of my head: 

  • God of War reboot
  • Horizon: Zero Dawn
  • Most Assassin's Creed games
  • The Last of Us
  • GTA V
  • Most of the Gears of War games
  • FF7 Remake
  • Red Dead Redemption 2
  • most of the modern Far Cry games
  • Skyrim/Fallout

 

Can some consumers notice the difference?  Yes.  Is it enough to push the needle when some of the greatest selling games ever were 30fps on release?  Probably not.  Designing for fixed hardware is about picking and choosing. Graphics / game logic are going to be chosen over framerate almost every time.

 

Your brother was put off by Destiny 2, but it and the original Destiny sold like hotcakes and were 30fps games.  He's definitely a small minority of the playerbase.

 

12 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Well the problem with your argument, is that they are trying to have 60fps modes.  Virtually every game has a performance mode where the target is 60fps. 

 

And even the fidelity modes that target 30fps can't even get a constant 30fps most of the time.  I honestly don't know how people can play games in 30fps when a 60fps mode is available.  As mentioned above, the game just feels so unresponsive in 30fps compared to 60fps.

 

Well that's just it -- most of the time the performance mode isn't the default.  It's also not what's shown in trailers and promotional materials.  The vast majority of ppl who play are going to be playing the pretty low framerate mode, and they won't care.  Many won't know to look for the performance mode toggle. Sometimes they won't even have a choice.

 

If developers/console manufacturers thought a lack of 60fps was going to be a real problem, things wouldn't be this way.  Sales and reception show that high framerate just isn't as important to the population at large.

 

I love high framerate gaming, and I have a nice PC.  But I also completed many of the games on the above list on console at 30fps and I was ok with it.  Gears of War/Horizon/Last of Us were phenomenal games, even at 30fps. High framerate is nice to have, but it isn't going to be a dealbreaker for most.

 

Fact is that  if high framerate is REALLY important to you, console is never going to be the best option.

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

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9 minutes ago, misterBee said:

60fps is nice to have, and in some cases it's necessary.

 

COD4 was 60fps and it's part of their brand.  Fighting games have always been 60fps.  Racing games are often 60fps, but not always (see: Driveclub).

 

That being said, many of the best-selling and critically acclaimed games have never had a 60fps target and only get high framerate when ported to a newer console afterwards.

 

Just off the top of my head: 

  • God of War reboot
  • Horizon: Zero Dawn
  • Most Assassin's Creed games
  • The Last of Us
  • GTA V
  • Most of the Gears of War games
  • FF7 Remake
  • Red Dead Redemption 2
  • most of the modern Far Cry games
  • Skyrim/Fallout

 

Can some consumers notice the difference?  Yes.  Is it enough to push the needle when some of the greatest selling games ever were 30fps on release?  Probably not.  Designing for fixed hardware is about picking and choosing. Graphics / game logic are going to be chosen over framerate almost every time.

 

 

Well that's just it -- most of the time the performance mode isn't the default.  It's also not what's shown in trailers and promotional materials.  The vast majority of ppl who play are going to be playing the pretty low framerate mode, and they won't care.  Sometimes they won't even have a choice.

 

If developers/console manufacturers thought a lack of 60fps was going to be a real problem, things wouldn't be this way.  Sales and reception show that high framerate just isn't as important to the population at large.

 

I love high framerate gaming, and I have a nice PC.  But I also completed many of the games on the above list on console at 30fps and I was ok with it.  Gears of War and Last of Us were phenomenal games, even at 30fps. High framerate is nice to have, but it isn't going to be a dealbreaker for most.

A good game is a good game regardless of the framerate.  Look at TotK that thing runs like crap and it got 10/10's across the board (which I personally disagree with big time).

 

I played Gears of War 5 on XSX in 60fps and it is a much better experience than 30fps.  

 

I agree that the general population doesn't care at all about the framerate though.  It still doesn't mean that they should be driving the ship on what developers do though. I bet you most of those same people think they are actually streaming real 4k content from things like HBO Max and Netflix or Youtube too.  

 

And yeah, the fidelity mode is generally default so that they can push all the stupid buzzwords like 4k, HDR, Raytracing, etc.  You can't really do that with performance mode.

 

EDIT:

 

And btw, Driveclub was fucking terrible, and part of that reason was because of the sluggish 30fps that it ran at.

Edited by purbeast
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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, purbeast said:

All of this crap is partially why I am not a fan of the way console gaming is going in general.  If I wanted to tinker and try out different settings, I'd get a PC and do it.  I want all my PS5 games to look the same no matter where I see them or play them.  But it's too late the cat is out of the bag.  Everyone just wants to throw the latest buzzwords around now a days.

We are in the same boat. I buy more and more of my games on PC. A) They are cheaper B) Even if they are unoptimized, some fan always manages to fix it. I mean @Sonichuman posted a video about Sonic 06. Some fan rebuilt the game from scratch. For all the faults, the juice is worth the squeeze on PC. The more consoles get away from plug and play the less appealing they are for me. Part of the reason I like the Switch so much 90% of the time, I can just pop in are cartridge and play.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

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6 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I agree that the general population doesn't care at all about the framerate though.  It still doesn't mean that they should be driving the ship on what developers do though. I bet you most of those same people think they are actually streaming real 4k content from things like HBO Max and Netflix or Youtube too. 

I mean if the vast majority of your dollars come from people that only care about the sick particle effects and don't mind that it halves the framerate, that's what you're going to do.

 

6 minutes ago, purbeast said:

And btw, Driveclub was fucking terrible, and part of that reason was because of the sluggish 30fps that it ran at.

I thought Driveclub was ok.  😞

 

Most if not all the Forza Horizon games are 30fps on console also iirc.

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purbeast Level 13

purbeast

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1 hour ago, misterBee said:

I mean if the vast majority of your dollars come from people that only care about the sick particle effects and don't mind that it halves the framerate, that's what you're going to do.

 

I thought Driveclub was ok.  😞

 

Most if not all the Forza Horizon games are 30fps on console also iirc.

By them "not caring" I mean that those people would be just as happy if devs forced 60fps down their throat with lower fidelity graphics as they are with them forcing 30fp games at higher fidelity.  They are just sheeple that follow what's given to them lol.

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Sonichuman Level 18

Sonichuman

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1 hour ago, Darc_Requiem said:

We are in the same boat. I buy more and more of my games on PC. A) They are cheaper B) Even if they are unoptimized, some fan always manages to fix it. I mean @Sonichuman posted a video about Sonic 06. So fan rebuilt the game from scratch. For all the faults, the juice is worth the squeeze on PC. The more consoles get away from plug and play the less appealing they are for me. Part of the reason I like the Switch so much 90% of the time, I can just pop in are cartridge and play.

 

In case people want to know what Darc is referencing

 

A guy named Chaos X has mostly been taking on the herculean task of fixing Sonic 06.  He's had some help here and there but he's mostly been a one man army on fixing the game and showing it it COULD have been had Sega actually let the game cook and paid any attention to QA.  The results have actually been substantial.   I haven't played the fixes myself so I can't say something like what J says and say it's the best Sonic Game Ever Made...but the amount of work that has been put into this game has clearly taken this game from something that was bottom of the barrel garbage to something that clearly should have been the release in the first place.

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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

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7 minutes ago, Chadouken said:

That's got a 60 fps patch for PS5? 👀

Yeah but I'm talking about big games that were 30fps on release on their original consoles.

 

GTA V runs on a toaster now, but when it was new and it was a 30fps title and everyone loved it.

 

It's easy to run older games on newer consoles at 60fps, but they aren't originally developed and released that way.  The number of old games that ran well on PS5 is what gave people the mistaken impression that 60fps was somehow gonna be a new standard moving forward.

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Chadouken Level 17

Chadouken

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1 minute ago, misterBee said:

Yeah but I'm talking about big games that were 30fps on release on their original consoles.

 

GTA V runs on a toaster now, but when it was new and it was a 30fps title and everyone loved it.

 

It's easy to run older games on newer consoles at 60fps, but they aren't originally developed and released that way.  The number of old games that ran well on PS5 is what gave people the mistaken impression that 60fps was somehow gonna be a new standard moving forward.

I didn't realize Red Dead 2 had the 60fps option now. I've been waiting for that forever, wanting to replay it at 60fps. I loved the game on my initial play through, but I couldn't stand how shitty it felt at 30fps. I'm at the point where I can't really play games that only run at 30 anymore. It's gotta be something extremely special for me to consider it.

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Sonichuman Level 18

Sonichuman

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1 minute ago, Chadouken said:

I didn't realize Red Dead 2 had the 60fps option now. I've been waiting for that forever, wanting to replay it at 60fps. I loved the game on my initial play through, but I couldn't stand how shitty it felt at 30fps. I'm at the point where I can't really play games that only run at 30 anymore. It's gotta be something extremely special for me to consider it.

Rockstar has not released a 60fps batch for RDR2...I had to double check cause I hadn't heard that that yet.  Upon looking it up people are still asking about it since March of this year.  I mean RDR2 made enough money for them...it's not hemorrhaging money like GTA 5 has been since it's release but it still made good money so I don't know why they wouldn't at least put a patch for it to be 60fps on the newer consoles. 

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