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The SF6 Thread: Mena Won Evo Japan!

misterBee

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Counterstrike Level 8

Counterstrike

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Posted
8 hours ago, Darc_Requiem said:

I've never been able to play Dhalsim in any game SF game ever. I can't even troll people just learning the game with Dhalsim. 

LOL!!  I had a pretty good Sim in Alpha 3 but that's where it ended.

 

I think the basic problem with Sim are believe it or not, his basic attacks. You're usually good at half or full screen throwing out the heavies mixing up with some pure fire but as soon as the enemy gets the drop on you, those same buttons you relied on whiff at close range or have horrible recovery. By the time you're mentally working out it's time to switch to light and mids, you're already in the corner getting pressured to death.

 

A lot of players, myself included, just don't know how to play his neutral effectively, that in combination with his slow attack, movement and "lame out" tactics, turns off a lot of people. Actually i'm REALLLY surprised Jwong hasnt ever picked up Sim. He has the perfect mindset for it but i realize the love for the waifus is too strong lol!!

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

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10_nemo-sf6-tier-list01.jpg

 

Nemo's tier list.

 

I can kind of see why people are putting Jamie low tier.  He starts the round at a handicap and doesn't actually start doing the same damage as everybody else until he gets to drink level 2.  He has to sacrifice oki and pressure in order to drink to get there.  And some matchups like against JP and Guile (possibly Sim, Blanka and Dhalsim as well)  it's hard to get any drinks in at all.  Also I'm not sure why he can't end a combo in drink and then continue pressure in the corner, you aren't plus after that which I think you should be.  

 

Still think the character has potential and is fun to play so not giving up on him or anything but I can see why pro's kind of bounced off him and went to characters like Dee Jay or Cammy instead.  

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

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That Chun placement is weird, in my opinion she's extremely strong but just a tad more technical than the rest.

 

One character I just don't see the strength yet is Cammy. I don't think she's bad or anything but I've yet to see someone prove that she's indeed one of the better characters in the game. I think Punk played her some, might have to watch those matches.

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Vhozite Level 15

Vhozite

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Posted
46 minutes ago, delete_me said:

One character I just don't see the strength yet is Cammy. I don't think she's bad or anything but I've yet to see someone prove that she's indeed one of the better characters in the game. I think Punk played her some, might have to watch those matches.

Idk Cammy seems pretty good to me. Her buttons have good range, she has multiple options to generate plus frames without using drive rush, ez mode oki off spiral arrow, reversal, st.mk jiggle, air super, level 3 that goes full screen in less than 20 frames, like 3 iron clad anti airs, 18f dash (fast for this game), light>medium link, 3 hit light confirms. Also, unlike other games where she has stuff like this Cammy also has standard health. Only thing she really doesn’t have is a command grab or fireball.
 

Not saying she is the best character in the game or anything but she is a very complete and robust. 

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B R O W N Level 6

B R O W N

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Vhozite said:

Idk Cammy seems pretty good to me. Her buttons have good range, she has multiple options to generate plus frames without using drive rush, ez mode oki off spiral arrow, reversal, st.mk jiggle, air super, level 3 that goes full screen in less than 20 frames, like 3 iron clad anti airs, 18f dash (fast for this game), light>medium link, 3 hit light confirms. Also, unlike other games where she has stuff like this Cammy also has standard health. Only thing she really doesn’t have is a command grab or fireball.
 

Not saying she is the best character in the game or anything but she is a very complete and robust. 

She even has a command grab with Hooligan tho 😭

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TWINBLADES Level 15

TWINBLADES

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I’m at Gold 2 with Lily now. Some things are clicking but I’m still playing SFV. Neutral is more solid but I need to practice my drive rush conversions. My DP’s are getting better. Never really had to learn to AA DP in a fighting before so I’m just pressing that shit even when it’s most likely not gonna work. 
 

 

Fuck DJ. Character is for clown shoes ass niggas 

Edited by TWINBLADES
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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

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12 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

 Also I'm not sure why he can't end a combo in drink and then continue pressure in the corner, you aren't plus after that which I think you should be.  

I think off his sweep target combo into drink and ex rekka into drink hes + on the knockdown. Ex palm also seems to let him get two drinks on a lot of the cast without a punish. That said base Jamie definitely is not very strong, and people always gravitate to whats stable. He looks really fun though, and the drinks do pay off...if he gets them

11 hours ago, Reticently said:

Chun has arguably the best mobility in the game, strong buttons like always, and loads of combo potential.  No way she isn't one of the better characters in the game.  Worst thing you can say about her is that this game does a lot of untraditional things with her inputs.

I heard someone translate the discussion on that tier list and it came down to "down down motion for a dp is actually bad because it means she has to stop moving to use it. Good input defensively, but not good for advancing and keeping ground" and "not having a throw loop in the corner in this game really sucks". They all seemed to agree she has a lot of potential though.

Edited by Shahenzan
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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

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This whole DI situation is starting to sour my enjoyment a bit. I still only can react to it when I have a read and even then it's roughly 50% success. I was willing to accept that it's part of the learning process but basically every opponent I come across counters my attempts every time, t the point where I deliberately tried only using it once par game and even then they did, so it's pure reaction on their part. Some even counter it with Super which blows my mind, I barely register the move by the point it hits and they input a Super motion in that time. Considering how impactful the outcomes of these exchanges can be, particularly in the corner, it sometimes feels like we could just do a reaction test on the VS screen and declare the winner off that.

 

I know this sounds whiny and all, but I've never come across a system mechanic that's purely reaction-based like this, so there's only so much I can do to improve. 

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Phantom_Miria Level 16

Phantom_Miria

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Posted

So, I've checked out Modern controls Manon for the sake of it.

She's so trash in Modern.

 

  • Standing light defaults to jabs, to use her standing light kick you have to press the auto button.
  • Same thing for standing medium kick since medium defaults to standing medium punch.
  • No crouching medium punch at all, which I think is devastating because it's essential in Drive Rush combos.
  • No standing heavy kick at all, her best poke and punish button at long range that can go into super 1 on a punish counter.
  • She loses her slide command normal that I think will end up being a very versatile and useful anti-air because you can corner people who were cornering you with it, on top of the bullshit side-switch resets into command grab you can do with it even in certain combos.
  • Neutral Special button is her heavy command grab, the fastest one with least range. Had it been the light one that's the slowest one with most range it might have been a  real threat in neutral, but not so much now. Not a huge issue because you can still access all versions of her command grab by doing the actual motion.
  • Back Special button is her QCB+LK, the low-hitting slide that gets you from mid-screen. Unlike with her other specials however, for whatever reason, doing the special input will not let you use the other versions of the special. That means no medium version, which is the long flying kick which is like her main ender in juggle combos that gives you a shitton of corner carry, and can also be useful in neutral to punish stuff like Juri's stocks/Jamie's drinks/Lily's wind stuff that they'll sometimes do raw from very far away thinking they can get away with, when they also have to consider QCB+MK huge range. That also means no heavy version, the meterless overhead that's safe when spaced that you can use to be an annoying pest to people blocking low in mid screen (because if they don't block low at that range they're asking to be hit with the slide). You can use the EX version for the overhead, but being forced to use meter to have the overhead option at all seems pretty shitty compared to Classic controls, even if the meterless one can be unsafe while the EX one is only -3.
  • Forward Special button is her anti-air wheel kick which defaults to medium, which is the most damaging one with decent speed. Her Down Special button is the spinning hit-grab that default to light, the fastest, easy to combo one, that also does the least damage. Since these inputs are both a quarter circle forward, you can do the manual motion to control the strength of the wheel kick but not the hit-grab, losing on damage in actually a lot of situation (when canceled from back heavy punch the medium version of the special will combo, which does like 50 more damage. It's very little, but still).
  • So, her neutral is much worse losing stHK, meterless overhead and a bunch of other normals. Her advanced combos I'm pretty sure are gutted as well, because crMP is the cornerstone of her Drive Rush combos, and also a good punish counter that comfortably links into back heavy punch. In exchange you get a one-button command grab that however doesn't have a lot of range but it's fast, but you also get a damage reduction of 20% which means losing over 700 damage on a medal 5 command grab (from 3700 to slightly less than 3000), and two-buttons supers that also end up doing subpar damage. I think her level 1 could be very good to punish stuff on reaction, but it's only 1600 damage and it doesn't come even remotely close to compensating for the loss of everything else.

Were there really people concerned that Modern controls would have taken over Classic ones?

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

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Posted
6 hours ago, Shahenzan said:

I think off his sweep target combo into drink and ex rekka into drink hes + on the knockdown. Ex palm also seems to let him get two drinks on a lot of the cast without a punish. That said base Jamie definitely is not very strong, and people always gravitate to whats stable. He looks really fun though, and the drinks do pay off...if he gets them

I heard someone translate the discussion on that tier list and it came down to "down down motion for a dp is actually bad because it means she has to stop moving to use it. Good input defensively, but not good for advancing and keeping ground" and "not having a throw loop in the corner in this game really sucks". They all seemed to agree she has a lot of potential though.

I also heard that with the down down DP motion, you have to stand to do it. You can’t maintain crouching and do DF, D, DF like you can with a normal DP motion, which may allow you to get hit, but to me it seems like you’d probably get hit anyway as you’d be too late at that point, I don’t know.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Phantom_Miria said:

Were there really people concerned that Modern controls would have taken over Classic ones?

I was playing Ranked last night and a Manon reacted to my somewhat-close neutral drive rush with her LVL1 super, and I didn’t see a buffer…

 

I told myself I needed to pay more attention to when I was playing someone with the dreaded “M”.

 

I watched the replay later and she was using classic, lol. I guess she did the input during the screen freeze.

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Phantom_Miria Level 16

Phantom_Miria

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

I was playing Ranked last night and a Manon reacted to my somewhat-close neutral drive rush with her LVL1 super, and I didn’t see a buffer…

 

I told myself I needed to pay more attention to when I was playing someone with the dreaded “M”.

 

I watched the replay later and she was using classic, lol. I guess she did the input during the screen freeze.

Some Manons may also just be twitchy with their super 1 because it's the cheapest form of invincible reversals we have.

 

Just remember it's a low, and you have to block crouching. Don't be like me in that mirror where I didn't press a button and I still got hit because I blocked standing.

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misterBee Level 18

misterBee

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2 hours ago, Phantom_Miria said:

Were there really people concerned that Modern controls would have taken over Classic ones?

It depends on the character.

 

Also, you play based on the control scheme, not the other way around.  If you try to play with modern as if you were using classic, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

I played all of world tour (20+ hours) on pad and with modern.  Motionless supers/reversals and a SPD button are simply too good to be ignored.  The huge damage reduction from using the special button for everything is the only thing saving it from being completely busted in some cases.

 

If you treat modern control scheme like you're playing an anime game and don't think about what you're missing you can absolutely make it work.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Daemos said:

Punk is pissed off that it's an invitational only. Don't tell people what to do with their money. These guys are clearly trying to make a show out of it.

Outside of watching him play, I could do without hearing anything else from Punk. If he has an agent they need to tell him to STFU. He's always complaining. It's to the point where he's the FGC version of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

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delete_me Level 12

delete_me

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I noticed today how much I like fighting Gief as Manon. I don't know if Gief players feel the same way, but there's something about this matchup that makes the whole Medal metagame more impactful than others, because it completely shifts the power balance at close range depending on how many of those Manon has. I think she wins the neutral game, but st.HK is very susceptible to DI, so it's definitely not one-sided either. 

 

On the other hand, I absolutely despise facing Lily. Goddamn what a boring character to go up against. Maybe Lily players are more proactive at higher ranks but in Platinum they're just sitting on one side of the screen waiting for you to get into HP range so they can safely buff themselves. 

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

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Posted
4 hours ago, delete_me said:

I noticed today how much I like fighting Gief as Manon. I don't know if Gief players feel the same way, but there's something about this matchup that makes the whole Medal metagame more impactful than others, because it completely shifts the power balance at close range depending on how many of those Manon has. I think she wins the neutral game, but st.HK is very susceptible to DI, so it's definitely not one-sided either. 

 

On the other hand, I absolutely despise facing Lily. Goddamn what a boring character to go up against. Maybe Lily players are more proactive at higher ranks but in Platinum they're just sitting on one side of the screen waiting for you to get into HP range so they can safely buff themselves. 

When it comes to Command grab damage Gief still has the advantage until you hit Medal Level 5. Three Fierce SPDs will put you to sleep.

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