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The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

misterBee

By misterBee
in Fighting Game Discussion

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

MvCi had a better netcode than SF5 from all I heard. 

 

SF5 is the game where I would literally sit in training mode for near 20 minutes before getting a game with both casual and ranked turned on.

 

Hell in the span thar SF5's netcode was released, multiple games have been retrofitted with rollback that works better than its netcode. Two new games were released with rollback better than it too (and one of those had its rollback put into it after originally wanting to ship it with delay based).

 

SF5 on the other hand is the game with netcode so good that the biggest breakthrough was somebody modding it to function better.

 

 

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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Sonero said:

This is some hilarious revisionism. It might've been better than others but the SF5 netcode has always been a weird type of dog shit.

Right and what did we have that was better than SFV back then?  KI and MKX.  Very few games had rollback back then.  Every single SNK and ArcSys game had worse netcode by comparison.  

 

The bar on what good netcode is has changed over the years.  Remember when everyone played SF4 in underwater netcode for 7 years?

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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

Posted
Posted

Two of those games were older than dirt. Most of the ports of old games had better netcode because GGPO did most of the work for them. 

 

19 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

Remember when everyone played SF4 in underwater netcode for 7 years?

I abandoned SF4 for the god game SFxT. The rollback it had wasn't the greatest but way more playable than whatever SF4 had. 

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HeavensCloud said:

Things is, back in 2016 SFV netcode was considered solid because everything else was delay netcode.  I was always going to bat for Capcom back then because of the shitty alternative.  Now ArcSys has raised the bar  - DNF Duel and Strive pretty much have flawless netcode.  Even SNK has upped their game.  I'd put KOFXV somewhere in between SFV and Strive/DNF.  

 

No, even since day 1 i remember having a worse experience with its netcode than on delay based ones of other games.

SFV netcode is for the most part garbage

Edited by Hecatom
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Hawkingbird Level 18

Hawkingbird

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

 

No, even since day 1 i remember having a worse experience with its netcode than on delay based ones of other games.

SFV netcode is for the most part garbage

Arc system delay based keeps getting shit it doesn't deserve. They had the best version of that style of netcode. I had few issues when playing Blablue, P4AU and Xrd. Playing P4A again on steam the current netcode doesn't feel bad at all. It's aged surprisingly well.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

Wow really reaching there with old games getting retro fitted with GGPO. I'm obviously talking about games released at the time.

 

Soul Calibur 5 was delay based and gave me a better experience than SF5. BlazBlue Calamity Trigger was delay based and better than SF5. Hell BBTag is recent and rhe random I played there were better than the random SF5 spat out at me.

 

When they did the fix for SF5 I went from being able to play some people in my city to not being able to play any of them.

 

So nah, some delay based experiences were better than SF5.

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted

SC6 is delay based and is a better experience than SFV.

In SC6 i can play with people from USA from this site while i am in central america, while in SFV i can-t play with my cousin that lives in the same fucking city.

 

Why they never ported back the rollback from MvCI is beyond me.

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Mr.Cipher Level 11

Mr.Cipher

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, HeavensCloud said:

Right and what did we have that was better than SFV back then?  KI and MKX.  Very few games had rollback back then.  Every single SNK and ArcSys game had worse netcode by comparison.  

 

The bar on what good netcode is has changed over the years.  Remember when everyone played SF4 in underwater netcode for 7 years?

 

I could play @Volt in BBCF Delay Based Netcode somewhat ok. Thats Germany to Brasil.
As comparison, as I was playing SFV, one of my friends who lives 2 towns appart was an unplayable teleport viesta for both of us.

As SFV came out, the main complaint ,appart from the lack of everything because the game was an empty husk with no soul, was the garbage Netcode.

 

I remember how Sajam in every Rollback Video had to say, that SFV Rollback is the worst example for Rollback you can find and it was so bad, that people wanted delay netcode back.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Hell somebody on SRK posted a vid of the game desyncing when playing against people in the same house.

 

 

I think that’s a different situation though, because from what I understand, you can’t directly P2P someone on the same WAN IP address, so it’s one of those server connections instead where it routes you both to one of Capcom’s servers (wherever that is in relation to where they were is a crapshoot).

 

not saying SFV’s netcode isn’t bad, and I know yesterday I said it was pretty good on a good PC (and it is), but if you compare system to system, like PS4 Strive to PS4 SFV, SFV is garbage tier. PS4’s Rev2 delay-based netcode is better than SFV’s rollback.

 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

I think that’s a different situation though, because from what I understand, you can’t directly P2P someone on the same WAN IP address, so it’s one of those server connections instead where it routes you both to one of Capcom’s servers (wherever that is in relation to where they were is a crapshoot).

 

He was just showing the game would desync even when you did nothing. He literally let the game connect and it would randomly desync.

 

The only was flaming ass.

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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

think that’s a different situation though, because from what I understand, you can’t directly P2P someone on the same WAN IP address

Yes. Can't really do that without injecting your own fix into the game. It's possible, but not built into the netcode, so it won't work well. I don't particularly understand what this whole conversation is about because it seems irrelevant given the fact that we live here in a reality that learned from the mistakes and successes of the SFV launch. Just play mates. Or don't. Plenty of games with better netcode.

 

I've never seen so much hate towards a single game in my life, and we live in a post No Man's Sky world, so that's saying something.

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Dayaan Level 13

Dayaan

Posted
Posted
Just now, Pair of Rooks said:

What's no man's sky? Storytime? 

Open universe game where you explore things in a RNG universe filled with different planets and environments. Pretty cool. Came out very buggy and with false advertising about meeting other explorers in the universe, but because it's so vast, the devs just assumed it would never happen. Two parties found themselves in the same place on the same planet 2 weeks into the game's release and they could not see each other. So, yeah, that was a huge scandal.

 

Game has since been updated with expansions too, and it's pretty good now, but the launch was so atrocious that it was essentially the first Cyberpunk. That's what people remember it by, despite it apparently being a good game. Seems familiar..?

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

What's no man's sky? Storytime? 

 

it was a single player space exploration game that launched with a lot of hype and half the mechanics they promised. But they managed to turn it around and add all sorts of  cool stuff to (they're still adding stuff).

 

SF5 launched with a weird ass gameplan where they would add stuff slowly after launch. The idea was that you could play online with good netcode until all the single player stuff was added. Then the online was absolute trash for a while so that plan went up in flames. Then there were a classic CapUSA/CapJap miscommunication on the time table for things and the rest is history.

 

Then you had 8 frames of lag.

 

Then you had characters releasing with way less combos than they had in the beta (seriously look up the Ryu beta and all he could do compared to release Ryu).

 

Then you had them having to ditch their attempt at their own in game currency and sticking to fight money.

 

 

Boy that first year of SF5 was a flaming disaster. So much so that I fell asleep during the SF5 grand finals. Which is about as much as you can say about SF5 as a game.

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

Oh yeah, another thing that happened with SF5.  The way you did rematches offline. Couldn't even get a proper menu up. Or an easy way to map buttons from the character select screen. Then they also promised that old sticks would work on the game. But the way that part functioned was that you had to sync up a PS4 pad to the game, go to the menu and then turn it on making it awkward as all hell.

 

Then the reversal they did with fight money. They promised consistent ways of getting it, then they nuked how much got from wins, then they also made weekly mission rewards give you less fight money, then they added the Fighting Chance to drain you of a chunk of it.

 

The went about it in such a disorganized way that the release trailer for Alex came out AFTER the character was released. Then they also surprised released Kage in the middle of Capcom Finals so people stopped watching and started labbing the character.

 

Anyways I guess the point is that people trying to play revisionist history with this game can fuck off. This is the same bullshit as talking about SF4 by only referencing the last version of it and then retroactively applying that as if it were what was happening throughout most of its lifespan. All things consider this whole game has been a mess longer than its been "good".

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

Arc system delay based keeps getting shit it doesn't deserve. They had the best version of that style of netcode. I had few issues when playing Blablue, P4AU and Xrd. Playing P4A again on steam the current netcode doesn't feel bad at all. It's aged surprisingly well.

Facts.

 

Cipher mentioned how we could occasionally play BBCF before the netcode patch. It's straight up unthinkable to do that in SFV. Hell, I can't even play most americans here on PC, let alone crossplay.

 

Even back when I joined SRK, and that was during the early parts of Season 2, the netcode was kind of seen as a bust compared to Skullgirls'. It was so wack that you had people online saying that Delay in general was better than Rollback because of that netcode.

 

SFV's Rollback was one hell of a monkey's paw.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Pair of Rooks said:

That seems hella naive or hella cocky. Ofc people would try to meetup. 

 

And if it's so hard then you don't even need a good netcode. Wtf.

No Man's Sky was developed by a small indie dev. Their PR guy ran off at the mouth creating a bunch of checks they couldn't cash. They didn't have the manpower to do what he was saying in the time allotted. Plus Sony hung them out to dry. They were all too willing to rake in all the positive attention pre-launch, post launch they were "Nah that's not a Sony product that's all Hello Games" knowing damn well they promoted the game as a huge exclusive.

Edited by Darc_Requiem
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HeavensCloud Level 13

HeavensCloud

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Remember when this game was so ass that Bonchan flipped a lid in an interview to talk about how dumb devs were for the way they made Balrog?

 

SF5 revisionist history is going to be hilarious.

Nah, it isn't revisionist history.  I've been saying this stuff since launch in 2016.  It's just funny that I also complained about the game a ton but that's okay, saying anything good about the game however, that just doesn't fly.  

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted

There's lots of nice things you can say about sfv. It tried a lot of things that were imo really ambitious. Crossplay, rollback, CFN was for a long time the best version of "look up a player and watch their matches" that i know of. Characters for in-game currency, even though they did do a lot to cut off how much you make, was still a very novel idea that I don't think any other fg has done better? Someone out there got every dlc character for free lol 

 

It was an ambitious game. Fucked up nearly everything it tried, but damn it tried

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HeavensCloud said:

Nah, it isn't revisionist history.  

 

Think you misread what I said, I meant the revisionist history for this game, wasn't accusing you of it.  By the time SF6 comes out, this game would've spent more time being trash gameplay wise AND as a package. It'd been wack in terms of features, implementation etc. It has some bright spots, but overall its been wack.

 

Worst part about this entire situation has been that ArcSys has paid more attention to what its customers wanted than Capcom.

 

 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted

The amount of people I've befriended through Strive is ridiculous TBH.  They have issues with the lobby connecting spazzing out, but SF5 connecting to matches spazzes out, you just don't see it do it. SF5 freaking happens in the inner workings of the Shame Engine it has for a netcode.

 

on the other hand, instead of being countless faceless menus,  logging in to little arcades has made playing a lot more personable. I've added people to my friends list from playing, people communicate in a more positive manner etc. The amount of props to hatemail I've gotten through Strive is crazy compared to the only hatemail stuff I got through SF.

 

So all the laughing we can do at the little cartoon avatars, it leads to a way more sociable experience. I've recognized people in twitch because they rock the same name there as they do in Strive. So even in that its been a better experience.

 

If they fixed the broken set ups and random fails to connect, this lobby would be substantially better than SF5's as opposed to just being way better.

 

Oh and also seeing the character your gonna play against and being able to run it multiple times back > Shitty ass SF5 ranked.

 

The ways in which the Strive situation is a more enjoyable experience is insane.

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Mattatsu Level 14

Mattatsu

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Sonero said:

seeing the character your gonna play against

IMO, this is Strive’s lobbies worst feature. Absolutely wack that you can avoid hard match-ups, even in casual matches where everyone is running by you because they don’t want to fight your character.

 

and I think being able to endlessly rematch in ranked (until someone gets promoted anyway) is BS too. In Casual matches it’s great (and it does annoy me to no end that SFV restricts casual matches to FT2s)

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Shahenzan Level 10

Shahenzan

Posted
Posted

Strive tower lobby isn't great as a ranked mode. You can pick your matches, dodge people, you know it's not very good at being super serious

 

However 

It solved one of the greatest problems arcsys had, which is making all the players play in the same space.  The xrd era of no one playing ranked and having to crawl into people's lobbies or make one yourself was wack compared to just grinding the tower 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

IMO, this is Strive’s lobbies worst feature. Absolutely wack that you can avoid hard match-ups, even in casual matches where everyone is running by you because they don’t want to fight your character.

 

and I think being able to endlessly rematch in ranked (until someone gets promoted anyway) is BS too. In Casual matches it’s great (and it does annoy me to no end that SFV restricts casual matches to FT2s)

 

You can only get rematch twice at most. Before the match ends. 

 

The ducking problem is probably a lower level thing. Haven't really ran into people ducking me outside of them trying to get the celestial challenge. In practice you can look around for characters you wanna play. In general you kinda load up wherever and have a good time.

 

But it isnt that much different than dudes doing the one and done thing in SF5. Wait 18 minutes for a ranked game, play a laggy Mexican, win the first game, they bounce, wait another 20 minutes for something or other. Yay SF5.

 

You also don't really get ragequits in Strive. 

 

 

Chadsuke's Vision is really out there providing a great experience.

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

What's no man's sky? Storytime? 

 

 

If you have time, that video goes into detail in what really happened surrounding the launch and subsequent redemption in the eyes of the public. 

 

Btw the game  got a new update just some days aho, lol. 

 

I have been playing it since day 1, and while it indeed launch in a state that wasn't what people expected, it wasnt either as terrible as people claim. 

 

Tjere was so much misinformation prior launch due the hype machine that the game would have never met expectations, plus shit like hello games offices  getting floded, sony forcing them to release early than what tjey wanted, etc. 

 

That video is worth checking imo. 

 

 

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Hecatom Level 18

Hecatom

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

I wish arc sys would go back to a standard lobby system. What they're doing with the avatars with trash. 

Scale back from strive? 

Yes. 

Go back to the regular lobby systems? 

Hell nah. 

Their lobby system from bb up to gbfvs, and dnf is easily the best lobby system out there, going back to older lobbies would be terrible. 

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Sonero Level 17

Sonero

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

don’t wait longer than 2 minutes for match, at the very most, but that be a location thing

 

Sounds like SF5 is even more trash when it can't connect properly to people across the continental United States.

 

Unlike Strive thst has me playing against people from both coasts just fjne. So yeah, SF5's netcode is trash. If you gotta give the thing 50 caveats to claim its good, then the thing is just trash.

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Darc_Requiem Level 19

Darc_Requiem

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Is Japanese SFV Dan any less annoying than English? Because holy F

Dan is an annoying waste of a slot no matter the language.

21 minutes ago, Volt said:

We'd need to ask the 4 or 5 people that played it.

MvCi, because the netcode doesn't suck, actually has an online scene. IIRC there was youtube video that talked about how the player base grew during the pandemic because the netcode allowed it.

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elliephil Level 15

elliephil

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

Any thoughts?

 

 

I agree. The other marvel games were much more polarizing in matchups and busted mechanics. Mvci had the turn around infinites for a while but got patched out almost immediately upon discovery. Even though there was no future for the game, they didn't let that become it's legacy where other entries in the series it became focal points. Dhc glitch, tac infinites, guard breaks, etc all were necessary to play the game properly. I stopped playing mvci before the pandemic hit but I felt that your defense was heavily rewarded more so than the other games. You block a mixup or evade a situation, you won't get put immediately into another which balances the offense vs defense if you take the time to learn your options. Mvc2 and 3, that just wasn't an option sometimes. You blocked until you get hit against characters like Zero, Phoenix, Morrigan, Magneto, Sentinel, Cable + assist, etc.

 

As for matchups, the tag system made almost every character viable to some extent if paired with the right partner and stone, similar to Cvs2. There are still the obviously top tier teams/characters but it definitely feels like one of those "immersive" games where you can figure out how to do something your own way if you try hard enough.

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Volt Level 15

Volt

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

MvCi, because the netcode doesn't suck, actually has an online scene. IIRC there was youtube video that talked about how the player base grew during the pandemic because the netcode allowed it.

That has nothing to do with balance.

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