The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

[Darc_Requiem]

3 minutes ago, Volt said:

More importantly, I just noticed your rank.

 

Does @Daemosknow Bison is the 17th rank icon? 🤔

Yes and he's jealous 😏

[Mattatsu]

Daemons has a lot of work to do to get that, and unfortunately, once they do, they’ll up and vanish like a fart in the wind.

[Mattatsu]

Took long enough 😆

 

 

[Volt]

2 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Took long enough 😆

 

 

Congratulations, but also fuck you. 👍

[Pair of Rooks]

We were just talking about shallow jump-ins...

 

 

[Pair of Rooks]

5 hours ago, Sonero said:

The ducking problem is probably a lower level thing.

I'm not sure that's a thing anymore since the obnoxious characters were nerfed.

 

I get the annoyance at ping ponging ranking updates, and the wall one hits first at floor 10 then again in celestial, but if anyone doesn't like the personalized avatars there's training mode auto match so you needn't bother with them. 

 

I get the sense that the floors of tower exist primarily to protect lower level players, whom are still struggling to do double digit wall break combos, from the better half of the playerbase. 

 

Arcsys seems less interested in good matchmaking and is using usage of all mechanics as a proxy for player skill. Hence the rule about no ranking down beyond 2 floors of your peak, no matter what.

 

This seems fair even if I'd rather them just stick to elo or whatever.

 

But damn, fix the failed to connect messages. Pls.

 

[Pair of Rooks]

42 minutes ago, Mattatsu said:

Took long enough 😆

 

 

You now outrank my lifetime max in SFV.  Congrats dood.

 

Now can you get Tubb to stick around here more?  🥺

[Volt]

23 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

We were just talking about shallow jump-ins...

I dunno if a fake fireball is really what Ryu needs tbh, but what really sucks is that Ryu just kinda... exists in a lot of games.

 

Capcom straight up doesn't want people to chuck plasma like ST. Except there's so much overlap in archetypes that because Ryu is always on an uphill battle when it comes to playing the midrange, you really shouldn't bother picking him most of the time. If you gotta get up-close and personal anyway, why not pick Akuma and Ken? If you really want fireballs and buttons, why not pick Guile or Sagat?

 

Ryu just really struggles to standout because of how mediocre he is by design. It's asinine as hell, and you can be 100% sure he'll be SFV S2.0 levels of bad if SF6 (logo pending) is free to play.

[elliephil]

That fake fireball Ryu had in alpha 3 was done by doing QCF+start button on arcade and it was so incredibly awkward to do it on 2p side lol

 

 

pulling it off dragon style!

Edited April 16, 2022 by elliephil

[Daemos]

7 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

Daemons has a lot of work to do to get that, and unfortunately, once they do, they’ll up and vanish like a fart in the wind.

[Volt]

3 hours ago, Daemos said:

Don't bother, they get reset every once in a while. 🤣

[Volt]

 

[Darc_Requiem]

I really wish DNF Duel had a different name. My inclination is to see DNF as Did Not Finish. So keep seeing the title has Did Not Finish Duel.

[Skort]

Greetings, 

 

I was playing some Poison sometime ago and i was using  her battle / premium outfit ( always loved this look for her ) , the one that gives out a mobster or private detective  look from the 30's - 50's, combined that with me watching some similar themed movies at that time, it pushed me to create this particular scene with her.

 

I basically wanted to go for a  old school style detective's office like you see in the movies, going through files, thinking what to do etc. 

 

Long story short : bunch of props, busted my ass with the light emitors some hdri filters and so on.  Damn, do i love UE 5 & Blender.

 

Poison is hard at work ( or not ) trying to solve this case : 

 

 

Noire : 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Skort

[Shakunetsu]

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

 

 

[Daemos]

Perfect Sindel.

[elliephil]

Babu 

[Sonero]

 

[Shakunetsu]

35 minutes ago, elliephil said:

Babu 

That should had been how Decapre Super in SF4 or another Super for Fang

[AriesWarlock]

 

 

 

 

Quote

Why can't we go back to thinking that not everyone can play fighting games

 

Where did this SF difficulty topic come from? it's been on twitter now

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by AriesWarlock

[Shakunetsu]

12 hours ago, Volt said:

I dunno if a fake fireball is really what Ryu needs tbh, but what really sucks is that Ryu just kinda... exists in a lot of games.

 

Capcom straight up doesn't want people to chuck plasma like ST. Except there's so much overlap in archetypes that because Ryu is always on an uphill battle when it comes to playing the midrange, you really shouldn't bother picking him most of the time. If you gotta get up-close and personal anyway, why not pick Akuma and Ken? If you really want fireballs and buttons, why not pick Guile or Sagat?

 

Ryu just really struggles to standout because of how mediocre he is by design. It's asinine as hell, and you can be 100% sure he'll be SFV S2.0 levels of bad if SF6 (logo pending) is free to play.

 

13 hours ago, Pair of Rooks said:

We were just talking about shallow jump-ins...

 

 

 

Even in MVCi, I was protesting in SRK to make his Hadouken as good as it was in UMVC3. because it was terrible in that game unlike in UMVC3 they made it atleast have special properties. And they even introduce the deflecting projectile during advancing guard lol.

 

 

[Sonero]

The problem that video fails to mention, and that hasn't been brought up, is that the game is kind of balanced around Ryu. So he kinda meant to have evenish match ups against the cast.

 

Which is how ended up being kind of ho-hum for years. Then the couple of times he has been really good, the man gets nerfs.

 

 

It's dumb and I don't agree with it but that's where we are at.

[CESTUS III]

 

Props to them to use Nostalgia Juri (and in vids before Nostalgia Alex) as the official look, ignoring SFV Team shitty opinion 👌

 

36 minutes ago, Sonero said:

The problem that video fails to mention, and that hasn't been brought up, is that the game is kind of balanced around Ryu. So he kinda meant to have evenish match ups against the cast.

 

Which is how ended up being kind of ho-hum for years. Then the couple of times he has been really good, the man gets nerfs.

 

 

It's dumb and I don't agree with it but that's where we are at.

As total scrub that play bit everybody but have Ryu as fav character and never complained about Ryu sucking, my 2cents is that problem is they show (and admit at times) to have bias that seem to work as opposite of balancement, i mean shit like "we want that character to be strong" or see them being ultra triggered when a char they seem to dislike seems "too good" while some others get free pass to stay high tier

 

But again, that's outsider point of view, as at my level (and at maaaaaany people level, even if they would not admit it lol) the tier list is pretty much theoric stuff that barely touch our level of play and world would be better place if we were not allowed to see it lmao

[Hawkingbird]

1 hour ago, Shakunetsu said:

Even in MVCi, I was protesting in SRK to make his Hadouken as good as it was in UMVC3. because it was terrible in that game unlike in UMVC3 they made it atleast have special properties. And they even introduce the deflecting projectile during advancing guard lol.

I remember Devil Jin saying Ryu being weak is fine because he's meant to be lame. Why bother having him in the game if he can't compete?

[Shakunetsu]

46 minutes ago, CESTUS III said:

As total scrub that play bit everybody but have Ryu as fav character and never complained about Ryu sucking, my 2cents is that problem is they show (and admit at times) to have bias that seem to work as opposite of balancement, i mean shit like "we want that character to be strong" or see them being ultra triggered when a char they seem to dislike seems "too good" while some others get free pass to stay high tier

 

But again, that's outsider point of view, as at my level (and at maaaaaany people level, even if they would not admit it lol) the tier list is pretty much theoric stuff that barely touch our level of play and world would be better place if we were not allowed to see it lmao

 

What BALANCEMENT? The issue here is not about being a better Ryu player or relying to his other option. This is not an SFV or SF4 specific.

 

It's not about being STRONG it's about being VIABLE because the guy was pointing not about specifically in SFV or SF4. 

 

The guy on the video is specifically pointing out that Hadouken used to be Ryu's effective primary tool not being viable anymore in modern capcom fighting games.

 

This is not a subject of if his terrible of the projectile, go with his other advantage like tatsu or shoryu. problem solve thing.

 

It's like if Zangief grappling special doesn't work anymore it used to be because many have change in trends. That's the level of argument the guy is pointing out about the projectile game of Ryu, not about TIER.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Shakunetsu

[Sonero]

26 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I remember Devil Jin saying Ryu being weak is fine because he's meant to be lame. Why bother having him in the game if he can't compete?

 

Ryu being middling or ass bothers me. There's no good justification or reason for it.  Just make the tools strong.  I get them wanting to move away from certain things, but they inevitably end up making a Ryu clone that is better at being Ryu than Ryu. In SF4 you had Evil Ryu and Akuma. In SF5 Akuma had better fireballs and other tools, and now you have Luke who ends up doing almost everything else better. Hell Kage may end up better than SF5 Ryu too.

 

Its kind of funny how Cammy could be top tier with basically a DP, and a cr.mk cancel into spiral arrow to fight with midscreen, but you couldn't fix Ryu.

[Skort]

What is lame and not is highly subjective.

 

Saying he being weak is fine because you consider him lame is nothing short of comical.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Skort

[Shakunetsu]

Just now, Sonero said:

Ryu being middling or ass bothers me. There's no good justification or reason for it.  Just make the tools strong.  I get them wanting to move away from certain things, but they inevitably end up making a Ryu clone that is better at being Ryu than Ryu. In SF4 you had Evil Ryu and Akuma. In SF5 Akuma had better fireballs and other tools, and now you have Luke who ends up doing almost everything else better. Hell Kage may end up better than SF5 Ryu too.

The problem with MVCi Ryu is the whole new system about about advancing guard update, that was supposed to counter morrigan soul fist spam but in past(UMVC3) they already made something special with hadouken to be at least viable then took it all away in MVCi. It's more on Ryu now doing more Tatsu in MVCi and always needs to come close.

[Dragonfave723]

 

[HeavensCloud]

JustFog's Ryu matchup chart.  Seems like a major criteria for the list is how easy it is to bypass hadoukens.  

 

The list would put him around upper mid, not bad at all.  He goes even with a lot of top tier characters and the characters he loses to aren't that popular.  Going 5-5 with Luke is a big win.  

Edited April 16, 2022 by HeavensCloud

[Mattatsu]

2 hours ago, AriesWarlock said:

Where did this SF difficulty topic come from? it's been on twitter now

Yesterday there was a big AT&T invitational SFV tournament with big name, non-FGC streamers. This clip was the one that blew up and started the debate.

 

 

funny enough, before it started, BrianF just recommended for a newbie to pick Honda and mash LP, and they did that and got pretty far and had a blast.

 

 

There’s another clip of the first guy where he compliments FG players

 

 

[Sonero]

Honda has always been that way though.  My wife needed to do a fundraiser thingy for school years ago. For the sake of ease I suggested taking my PS3, sticks and monitor and doing a little arcade thing. Charge the kids a quarter a play.

 

Kids were super hype for it. Surprisingly enough HDR was pretty fun for the kids even if they couldn't really do moves. Y'all can imagine how beast HHS is in that environment. 

[Daemos]

These guys are dumb af. I hope Capcom is not paying attention to them at all.

(I know I know, Capcom are paying attention to them wholeheartedly as we speak)

[Mattatsu]

3 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Honda has always been that way though.  My wife needed to do a fundraiser thingy for school years ago. For the sake of ease I suggested taking my PS3, sticks and monitor and doing a little arcade thing. Charge the kids a quarter a play.

 

Kids were super hype for it. Surprisingly enough HDR was pretty fun for the kids even if they couldn't really do moves. Y'all can imagine how beast HHS is in that environment. 

Yeah, when I was a kid, my favourites were Chun, Blanka, and Honda (in order) because I could mash out their mashed specials. I preferred to play as Ryu or Ken, but I really struggled to get their specials out reliably.

[Mr.Cipher]

We live in a timeline where people say SFV is hard.

 

Oh god, how did we end up here, I wanna swap timelines.

[Mattatsu]

3 minutes ago, Daemos said:

These guys are dumb af. I hope Capcom is not paying attention to them at all.

(I know I know, Capcom are paying attention to them wholeheartedly as we speak)

He did make quite a few posts on Twitter later and seemed to start understanding and appreciating how to do combos. He actually kinda seemed interested in the genre, but he did say that losses made him super salty and probably wouldn’t play it much more because of that alone… which will be a problem in any 1v1 game where you can’t blame your teammates lol

[Mattatsu]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

We live in a timeline where people say SFV is hard.

 

Oh god, how did we end up here, I wanna swap timelines.

It is though. Not execution-wise (well compared to other SFs and a lot of anime games), but I do think SFV is a hard fighting game to do well in, even at a low level… I did a large post about this a few days ago, but I think how inconsistent (or non-intuitive) the frame data is, and how strong frame traps and oki setups are is a big reason for it.

[Sonero]

8 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

We live in a timeline where people say SFV is hard.

 

I'm surprised your own brain doesn't stop you from saying this things. Like at some point even it has to be like "wait, c'mon it can' be that you're legit making us think this way.".

 

But here you are, missing the point on purpose.

[Darc_Requiem]

9 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

We live in a timeline where people say SFV is hard.

 

Oh god, how did we end up here, I wanna swap timelines.

It's the same time line you've always been in. Most people find fighting games difficult. This isn't something new, this is always been the case. Many of us take for granted basic things like QCF motions which are completely alien to most gamers. 

[Mr.Cipher]

5 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

I'm surprised your own brain doesn't stop you from saying this things. Like at some point even it has to be like "wait, c'mon it can' be that you're legit making us think this way.".

 

But here you are, missing the point on purpose.

 

 

Keep trying, maybe one day I will fall for your old ass baits.

 

5 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

It's the same time line you've always been in. Most people find fighting games difficult. This isn't something new, this is always been the case. Many of us take for granted basic things like QCF motions which are completely alien to most gamers. 

 Dunno if you read the block I put out some days ago.

 

I still think this is mainly duo to FGs doing a terrible Job to teach people how to actually play the game. 

Which is what bothers me. Usually if you explain stuff to people they usually understand, but thats again go to outside sources to learn the game.
And that is not how it should be.

[Sonero]

All the tutorials in the world won't help people with the fact that FGs are hard.  The difference between okay and competent is rough, from competent is to good is way wider, and from good to great can feel astronomical.

 

I'm not saying this to throw Matt under the bus, but taking years to get to Gold in SF5 is way more common than people want to realize.  The more complicated the game is, the harder that gap is too.

 

FGs are just really hard.

[Shakunetsu]

Execution and combo are becoming easier and simpler

 

Even the newer game mechanics are into more options to get out situation

 

It's the memorization part that makes complicated because of things that change in modern times like  match up and frame data. That wasn't available way back.

[Hawkingbird]

This is likely the average experience of someone who's never played fighting games before

 

https://streamable.com/ls1s6f

 

But Cipher insist in being a dumbass .

[Sonero]

15 minutes ago, Shakunetsu said:

It's the memorization part that makes complicated because of things that change in modern times like  match up and frame data. That wasn't available way back.

 

Nah, you eventually learn combos and frame data. I'm teaching myself guitar slowly. Picking up the guitar, pracitcing scales for 20 minutes is easy peasy. Got one of my scales memorized and the muscle memory is coming along. But there's a whole world of playing an instrument that has all to do with decisions you make while playing.

 

Its the same thing with FGs. If you've never played one and just started the execution feels insurmountable. But plenty of idiots learn musical instruments so your hands will get there eventually. But that whole world of strategy and then shifts in strategy mid match are a different thing altogether.

 

Learning tendencies, learning how to find tendencies safely, learning how to attack them, learning how to space things, learning how to space things based on match ups, learning when to hit buttons, learning when to be aggressive and when to chill, managing your emotions etc. All those things are tough.

 

I just played a bunch of games against a "celestial sol". Sol has to be the scrubbiest character in the game free. He managed to random me out one game, lost all the other ones. I'm paying more attention to how he approaches, how he defends, I'm being more careful with how much risk I put myself in, if I punted some silly stuff it doesn't really shake me mentally. I even moved around better to avoid bad situations without it letting me stress me out as much as it did that.

 

I don't think I'm very good at FGs in general, but the level I am compared to that Sol player with his 600 levels in the character might as well be different planets. That's with Strive doing its bets to give them high damage, dumbshit hard to deal with moves for moving around etc. There is literally no tutorial in any one video game that can be made to help you with that. None. Not a freaking one. Those things are why FGs are hard.

[Mr.Cipher]

45 minutes ago, Sonero said:

All the tutorials in the world won't help people with the fact that FGs are hard. 

 

Wow ain't like I have been saying that for the last months (at least in private conversations).

 

Missing the point, on purpose, like always.

 

Do me a favor and keep yelling at clouds old man, you're just wasting my time at this point.

[Pair of Rooks]

27 minutes ago, Sonero said:

Learning tendencies, learning how to find tendencies safely, learning how to attack them, learning how to space things, learning how to space things based on match ups, learning when to hit buttons, learning when to be aggressive and when to chill, managing your emotions etc. All those things are tough.

this is a great paragraph in a great post. 

 

FGs are hard, but it isn't really because of the quarter-circles.  When Ryu was introduced to Smash 4, the competitive community discovered "you can learn that in a day and then it's a non-factor forever." 

 

I can personally confirm it's like riding a bicycle. After a 10 year + hiatus, I hadoken'ed first try. 

[Shakunetsu]

To be honest, My issue regarding  memorization is what works or what beats this or will that beat this move in this version. Will this combo worked in version or not, this could be just that I'm not a regular player anymore and need to catch up.

[Skort]

On the motion input side of things it's really important to find a controller / device you are comfortable with as well. Probably a lot of newbies are starting out with what they see and hear it's recommended  ignoring the fact that it's 100% based on personal preference ,they go out and buy it while it's a high chance they will never really get used to it.

 

No better example than me. I legit cannot play fighting games on stick and most pads. But give me a PC  keyboard or a hitbox and i'm good to go.

 

I actually consider pc keyboard to be the most comfortable way to play a fighting game and i am 100% sure this sounds wack for other players that grew up using either stick or pad, but for me it's totally the way to go.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Skort

[Pair of Rooks]

1 minute ago, Shakunetsu said:

To be honest, My issue regarding  memorization is what works or what beats this or will that beat this move in this version. Will this combo worked in version or not, this could be just that I'm not a regular player anymore and need to catch up.

I have a lot of trouble nowadays with memorization of combos more than a few moves in length.  It's probably a combination of my age and lack of regular playtime.  But also, combos didn't use to be very long, loops nonwithstanding. 

 

In Strive I try really hard to remember pieces of combos, and just string those pieces together.   Dustloop bothers me cause they sort their combos by first button instead of by situation, so it's kinda useless.