The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

[Volt]

5 hours ago, AriesWarlock said:

Where did this SF difficulty topic come from? it's been on twitter now

Even when Chen says something that makes sense, he gets it wrong, goddamnit.

 

Difficulty and accessibility do NOT mean that.

 

As for his point... it makes sense, but it also doesn't. Notice how he left out Crush Counters. That's the big impact flashy thing that makes casuals go "oooohhhhhhh". VTs are also a huge visual pop.

 

Man just wanted to shit on SFV and I honestly can't blame him because that game is ASS.

[Skort]

@ Capcom.  

 

Don't worry i'm making  your trailer better. 

 

[Sonero]

On one side, I think a square off between a new female fighter and Chun would've been sick after looking at that.

 

On the other you feet fetishists are real cunts and gotta quit it.

 

 

[Hawkingbird]

19 minutes ago, Skort said:

On the motion input side of things it's really important to find a controller / device you are comfortable with as well. Probably a lot of newbies are starting out with what they see and hear it's recommended  ignoring the fact that it's 100% based on personal preference ,they go out and buy it while it's a high chance they will never really get used to it.

 

No better example than me. I legit cannot play fighting games on stick and most pads. But give me a PC  keyboard or a hitbox and i'm good to go.

 

I actually consider pc keyboard to be the most comfortable way to play a fighting game and i am 100% sure this sounds wack for other players that grew up using either stick or pad, but for me it's totally the way to go.

I fell into that trap. I got myself a $150 hori stick thinking it would make me better even though I felt comfortable on pad. Big mistake that was. Not only did I not play better but I had to relearn the game to use the thing. I ended up trading it to a friend who actually does play on stick.

[Shahenzan]

8 minutes ago, Skort said:

@ Capcom.  

 

Don't worry i'm making  your trailer better. 

This trailer would not have inspired "brother check in" memes or repeated comments about Ryu's Sakura Slayer, I'm not sure i can call this an improvement bossman

[Darc_Requiem]

9 minutes ago, Skort said:

I knew this was coming..... 🤣

[Mr.Cipher]

This topic is so stupid.

No FG Dev has tackled this problem correctly and they will keep missing it.

 

Difficulty should be a nice curve anyway. FGs should be easy to understand, you should not need tutorials and especially not tutorials like we have right now that are so stupidly boring you die of reading "An Anti-Air is an invincible Move that beats attacks that come from above! Press you anti-air button 5 times now and show Ken whos Boss!"

Tutorials do jack shit as they are right now. I always liked GGs Mission Mode, but they are also just textboxes and a "throw Ky 5 times" thing after.

 

I know you want to keep yelling that FGs are hard with every single clip imagenable to prove it, but I can throw these people into any MMO Raid and they would say the same.

Every Game is hard when you first start no matter the Genre.

The Thing is every Genre manages it to make themselfs more accesable and easier to understand.

 

My Question is how can FGs achive this and I haven't have gotten one good answer.

 

Also SFV isn't hard, it's just shit.   Thats known for 6 years and somehow people still play. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Mr.Cipher

[Darc_Requiem]

6 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

This topic is so stupid.

No FG Dev has tackled this problem correctly and they will keep missing it.

 

Difficulty should be a nice curve anyway. FGs should be easy to understand, you should not need tutorials and especially not tutorials like we have right now that are so stupidly boring you die of reading "An Anti-Air is an invincible Move that beats attacks that come from above! Press you anti-air button 5 times now and show Ken whos Boss!"

Tutorials do jack shit as they are right now. I always liked GGs Mission Mode, but they are also just textboxes and a "throw Ky 5 times" thing after.

 

I know you want to keep yelling that FGs are hard with every single clip imagenable to prove it, but I can throw these people into any MMO Raid and they would say the same.

Every Game is hard when you first start no matter the Genre.

The Thing is every Genre manages it to make themselfs more accesable and easier to understand.

 

My Question is how can FGs achive this and I haven't have gotten one good answer.

 

Also SFV isn't hard, it's just shit.   Thats known for 6 years and somehow people still play. 

The basic issue seems to sail over your head. You seemed locked in on SFV when this is a fighting game genre issue. Most games allow you to hop in and grasp basic concepts immediately. This allows the player to focus on improvement from the jump. Fighting games require time and effort just to grasp the basic tools. Only then can you work on improving. 

 

My father never got into video games. He was sharp as hell though. He'd watch a mechanic fix an issue with his car and if it popped up again, he'd be able to do it himself. He taught himself how to cook. He taught himself how to swim. He wanted to see what my brother and I spent so much of our time on. So, I taught him how to play Super Mario Bros in under five minutes. He had the family high score in Tetris. Yet, I couldn't get him to grasp SF2 for the life of me. The man could fix most issues with his car, hook up car audio equipment with no formal training, and make a full course meal. Yet learning SF2 was a chore.

[Darc_Requiem]

42 minutes ago, Sonero said:

On one side, I think a square off between a new female fighter and Chun would've been sick after looking at that.

 

On the other you feet fetishists are real cunts and gotta quit it.

 

 

So you're a classic Vanessa sort of guy.

 

 

And Skort is a current Vanessa guy

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[Mr.Cipher]

Nah thats a general FG Issue not just SFV.

One of my FC Member who I got to play Nioh, who hates Souls games btw., also got interested as I was streaming Melty.
Since it's free he just downloaded the game, I helped a bit with setting up and then let him to his own.
He asked me next evening after Raid, if I can help him with it.

Since the game has no Tutorial whats-o-ever he just played Arcade on lowest difficulty. He did make it to Hermes at the end, but couldn't beat her.
Yadda Yadda Yadda, so I went to "Training Mode" with him in Netplay and went over some things with him.
He just said after I explained for 10 minutes "Damn that sounds easy."

It was easy until I started running offence on him, then he didn't last long.
But hey he has been beating Arcade Mode a couple of times now and managed it to take a round of me where I only used the A Button. Surpressing my urge to constantly throw was hard I tell ya.

 

What I probably want to say, is that once he got told how the game works it became a lot easier for him to play.

Yeah sure he has to learn a lot, but he found a character and got some basic combos and Neutral ideas after, I think it's 2 weeks now.

Which makes me ask the whole time how that part can be done by the games themselfs.

[Skort]

3 minutes ago, Darc_Requiem said:

And Skort is a current Vanessa guy

 

Jokes on you. My KOF main is actually King. 

 

[Darc_Requiem]

1 minute ago, Skort said:

 

Jokes on you. My KOF main is actually King. 

 

[Sonero]

33 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

 

Difficulty should be a nice curve anyway. FGs should be easy to understand, you should not need tutorials and especially not tutorials like we have right now that are so stupidly boring you die of reading "An Anti-Air is an invincible Move that beats attacks that come from above! Press you anti-air button 5 times now and show Ken whos Boss!"

Tutorials do jack shit as they are right now. I always liked GGs Mission Mode, but they are also just textboxes and a "throw Ky 5 times" thing after.

 

you literally turn "mission mode" into story mode and have them play in a pretend way that's actually teaching them. You make goofy miniboss and other stuff that's just there to have you do some type of technique you want them to do so they win. Then you make it like regular 2D bosses where you are there to reward pattern recognition so they have to do random shit to win. FD this attack, hit this thing with your anti air button etc.

 

Every other game has some type of single player where you just learn to move around. FGs don't because its hard to make them without them being corny. You can make a whole ass side scroller to try and teach people the basics of 2D games. After you do that, you then get into the other mountain that is actually learning how to play against people.

 

2D FG stuff you're only doing in one FG. You play one FPS, you can play an overwhelming majority of single player and multiplayer games. Same with MOBAs. Spend some time playing Diablo and other ARPGs and you'll get a lot of the mechanical aspect of them without intending to learn it.

 

Still won't save you from the asswhooping you'll get once you start playing FGs though.

 

 

[Hawkingbird]

5 minutes ago, Sonero said:

You can make a whole ass side scroller to try and teach people the basics of 2D games. After you do that, you then get into the other mountain that is actually learning how to play against people.

[Hawkingbird]

Melty Blood having more entrants than MK don't sit right with me

[Shakunetsu]

38 minutes ago, Skort said:

 

Jokes on you. My KOF main is actually King. 

 

 

Yeah, King was also my go to character when I was a teen in KOF series and CVS1.

 

 

[Sonero]

18 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

Melty Blood having more entrants than MK don't sit right with me

 

Two games with stuff that you could barely call a netcode are ahead of it. Also two games it vastly outsold.

 

Not saying this to shit on you for liking MK games, but it just drives me out of my mind how little sense that makes.

[Volt]

27 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

Melty Blood having more entrants than MK don't sit right with me

Strive on top as it should, it's weird how GBVS got more entrants than DBFZ tho.

[Hecatom]

1 hour ago, Mr.Cipher said:

FGs should be easy to understand, you should not need tutorials and especially not tutorials like we have right now

LMAO

I find this notion to be humorous, when you consider games like MOBAS that are hard to understand and hard to get into, with terrible tutorials, yet are some of the most popular games right now.

 

Or how a lot of sports games have terrible tutorials, really obtuse mechanics that are not talked about in any place, yet they thrive without a problem.

The difficulty and the tutorials have never been the issue.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Hecatom

[Pair of Rooks]

1 hour ago, Skort said:

@ Capcom.  

 

Don't worry i'm making  your trailer better. 

saving the money shot for last, i see. 

well played. 

 

[Volt]

Just now, Hecatom said:

LMAO

I find this notion to be humorous, when you consider games like MOBAS that are hard to understand and hard to get into, with terrible tutorials, yet are some of the most popular games right now.

The difficulty and the tutorials have never been the issue.

Then what do you think it's the problem?

[Hawkingbird]

2 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

LMAO

I find this notion to be humorous, when you consider games like MOBAS that are hard to understand and hard to get into, with terrible tutorials, yet are some of the most popular games right now.

People I know that play MOBAs tell me it took them hundreds of hours of playing just to reach a competent level in them. That's on top of having some of the most toxic gaming communities in existence. 

[Mr.Cipher]

9 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

LMAO

I find this notion to be humorous, when you consider games like MOBAS that are hard to understand and hard to get into, with terrible tutorials, yet are some of the most popular games right now.

 

Add CS:GO to that list.

 

And now tell me, what the actual problem is then.

Because right now we have like 5 corner all yelling different stuff.

[Shahenzan]

4 minutes ago, Volt said:

Then what do you think it's the problem?

I mean logic it out man, what's the difference? MOBAs are incredibly complex, on paper their barrier to entry is stupid high so what is different between them and FGs? Like everyone has been saying, playing alone is just apparently more stressful on new/low skill players.

[HeavensCloud]

1 minute ago, Shahenzan said:

I mean logic it out man, what's the difference? MOBAs are incredibly complex, on paper their barrier to entry is stupid high so what is different between them and FGs? Like everyone has been saying, playing alone is just apparently more stressful on new/low skill players.

Maybe Ono was on to something when he tried to make SF6 team based 😉

[Sonero]

7 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

Maybe Ono was on to something when he tried to make SF6 team based 😉

 

Have you ever tried SF5 in the team mode? 3v3 really makes that game waaaaaaaaaaay more fun.

[Volt]

6 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

Maybe Ono was on to something when he tried to make SF6 team based 😉

Don't forget SFxT too.

 

9 minutes ago, Shahenzan said:

I mean logic it out man, what's the difference? MOBAs are incredibly complex, on paper their barrier to entry is stupid high so what is different between them and FGs? Like everyone has been saying, playing alone is just apparently more stressful on new/low skill players.

Yeah, I figured it was that, but I wanted to hear Heca's opinion.

 

This is not something that can really be changed though. Ultimately, FGs boil down to 1v1. It's important to recognize that a lot of people just don't have that dog in them to get down with that, but that doesn't excuse the other problems.

[Hecatom]

24 minutes ago, Volt said:

Then what do you think it's the problem?

 

Here is the thing.

Paradoxically, if devs want to bring more people into the genre, they need to focus less on what make fgs what they are and add other modes on their games.

More social modes, more single player modes that can serve as story, coop both online and offline, tutorials both of the current variety, but also, online training modes, online challenge modes, etc

More ways to make playing fgs with other players beyond the standard 1 vs 1.

 

Like i said before, the true real barrier that many players have to deal with fgs, is the very nature of the genre, where you are on your own when playing against other people.

Want to solve that?

Give more outlets for the newcomers to direct their frustration.

 

DBFZ has a team mode where my friends who don't play fgs like to play, where 3 people can team against another team, be of other 3 people group, or just 1 single player.

It also has the boss mode for example where players around the world team up in teams of 3 people to stack wins in order to defeat said boss and win extra stuff.

That shit could be expanded upon for example.

 

If difficulty was such a barrier as people want to think, arena fighters would have overtook the genre years ago, and most of them sell less than of the biggest names of the genre, like Tekken, MK, DBFZ, and hell, even less than smaller games as well.

 

Granted, they have their own issues, but their easy to play nature would factor in for many people to give them a try, which doesn't happen.

 

 

Edit

 

The social aspect of fgs has always relied on the in person interactions.

And currently they are ill equipped for an online mostly way to interact, since most people are on private rooms when playing, chatting with friends, instead with their opponent.

 

And there is 0 incentive in game to help newcomers to learn the game, for example.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Hecatom

[BornWinner]

35 minutes ago, Volt said:

Strive on top as it should, it's weird how GBVS got more entrants than DBFZ tho.

I can see why. GBVS finally has a chance to shine so all their players are coming. Meanwhile DBFZ has been pissing off all of their players with some of the balance. It got really bad when it was shown how busted Labcoat 21 was.

[Pair of Rooks]

 

[Shahenzan]

1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

Melty Blood having more entrants than MK don't sit right with me

Especially impressive when you consider everyone who plays type lumina apparently hates it lol

 

Melty boys registering just for the culture, what is going on with mk players???

[HeavensCloud]

23 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Have you ever tried SF5 in the team mode? 3v3 really makes that game waaaaaaaaaaay more fun.

I had a blast playing the KOF 3 vs 3 party battle with six different people playing. Something like that with voice chat would be awesome.

[Sonero]

3 minutes ago, HeavensCloud said:

I had a blast playing the KOF 3 vs 3 party battle with six different people playing. Something like that with voice chat would be awesome.

 

Good News, Gang!

 

You can't play that mode online. RIP.

[Hecatom]

1 hour ago, Hawkingbird said:

Melty Blood having more entrants than MK don't sit right with me

 

It doesn't surprise me. 

For all its sales, the NRS games die super quick, they have the worst retention numbers of all fgs in the market, by the 1st 3 months they always end being outshined by games that sell waaaay less than them in players online, in gatherings and tournaments and in views on twitch. 

 

Is an amusing phenomenon. 

[Volt]

12 minutes ago, Hecatom said:

Paradoxically, if devs want to bring more people into the genre, they need to focus less on what make fgs what they are and add other modes on their games.

More social modes, more single player modes that can serve as story, coop both online and offline, tutorials both of the current variety, but also, online training modes, online challenge modes, etc

More ways to make playing fgs with other players beyond the standard 1 vs 1.

Good points.

 

A huge problem I've been noticing are casuals complaining that they gotta fork over 60 bucks for a game that ultimately has little content.

 

We know there's depth to them, but it's still a hard sell. Imagine looking at someone and saying, "Hey, I got this game, it's *really* fun, but you gotta put in work, you're going to get bodied 1v1 a lot until you learn, the in-game tutorials are kind of ass, and there's almost nothing else to do on it but hop online and get your shit pushed in. All for the sweet price of 60 bucks without counting the DLC Shill Passes."

 

A huge part of why SFV was a disaster at launch is that the game was a skeleton when it came to content. The netcode was hot garbage, but so was most of the competition at the time, so it wasn't a kiss of death like the current crop, but that was the most stereotypical FG game possible on that front.

 

ArcSys, as usual, has been leading the charge on that front, but I feel they lack a single player mode with some replayability.

[Shakunetsu]

41 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

 

reminds me of Akuma in COTA haha

[Pair of Rooks]

34 minutes ago, Volt said:

We know there's depth to them, but it's still a hard sell. Imagine looking at someone and saying, "Hey, I got this game, it's *really* fun, but you gotta put in work, you're going to get bodied 1v1 a lot until you learn, the in-game tutorials are kind of ass, and there's almost nothing else to do on it but hop online and get your shit pushed in. All for the sweet price of 60 bucks without counting the DLC Shill Passes."

wow that really does sound like CS:GO.   No wonder WarOwl videos became so popular. 

 

[Volt]

4 minutes ago, Pair of Rooks said:

wow that really does sound like CS:GO. 

CS:GO has a lower barrier of entry because all you need to understand at first is that you gotta shoot people, then you move on to learning how to manage your money and cuss in Russian.

[Hecatom]

[Hecatom]

 

[elliephil]

8 hours ago, Shahenzan said:

Especially impressive when you consider everyone who plays type lumina apparently hates it lol

 

Melty boys registering just for the culture, what is going on with mk players???

Big update just came out, I think it will change the gameplay quite a bit since you can't OS shield into everything anymore. Maybe they are entering ahead of time in case they enjoy the update.

 

I know at Frosty Faustings a lot of people signed up for MBTL since it was released around the time the tournament was announced, but then didn't bother to show up or play for multiple reasons.

 

they had a good trailer last time lol

Edited April 17, 2022 by elliephil

[Mattatsu]

This is a good and funny video, but the ending is a nice touch.

 

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by AriesWarlock

[Pair of Rooks]

5 hours ago, Mattatsu said:

This is a good and funny video, but the ending is a nice touch.

 

 

I love her faded "G...G?" at the end. 😂

[Sonero]

2 hours ago, AriesWarlock said:

 

 

 

 

I literally have all those games already on PC through emulation and I still got excited.

 

😭

[BornWinner]

Happy Easter!

 

[Shahenzan]

10 hours ago, elliephil said:

Big update just came out, I think it will change the gameplay quite a bit since you can't OS shield into everything anymore. Maybe they are entering ahead of time in case they enjoy the update.

Idk about all that

You can totally still os a buttons into shield just now you can delay heat to beat it and there's a special penalty on whiff buttons into shield. It's narrowed reliable offensive options down from heat os, safejump, bait shield to safejump and bait shield. 

 

It is definitely the same game, maybe even less what people wanted now.  If anything I feel like the balance changes feel better than the system changes, Miyako nerfs truly bring me peace

[elliephil]

1 hour ago, Shahenzan said:

Idk about all that

You can totally still os a buttons into shield just now you can delay heat to beat it and there's a special penalty on whiff buttons into shield. It's narrowed reliable offensive options down from heat os, safejump, bait shield to safejump and bait shield. 

 

It is definitely the same game, maybe even less what people wanted now.  If anything I feel like the balance changes feel better than the system changes, Miyako nerfs truly bring me peace

Shield D : Extended Time Stop on Success. Increased Recovery on Failure.  Removed ability to extend shield duration with a Whiff Cancel, and extended recovery

 

I've tested it numerous times and played at least 10 hours since the patch dropped and I've actually punished shield reliably now. If you're delaying your strings, it will blow up shield on defense. If you're trying to OS shield into anything, it becomes much more of a risk to do so since it can be fatal countered now. It treats every shield as a tap shield instead of an OS instant one. E.g. shield B will fatal counter a held shield now and you can get full conversion.

 

It's not an absolute game changer and they definitely doubled down on shield, but I think it keeps the game interesting enough for everyone who has been playing. I don't believe they will ever truly overhaul the system since it's a French Bread game, but I like the game as it is.

 

As for Miyako, fuk u kid lol

[AriesWarlock]

 

Maybe Granblue players knew something

Granblue Fantasy: Versus version 2.80 update to add three new actions; ‘Playable Character Survey’ results announced

Sandalphon the most requested character worldwide.

 

 

The version 2.80 update for Granblue Fantasy: Versus will launch in early June and add three new actions, publisher Cygames and developer Arc System Works announced at the Granblue Fantasy: Versus Cygames Cup Special 2022 Final Round. The companies also shared the results of a recent “Playable Character Survey,” which could hint at future playable downloadable content characters.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by AriesWarlock

[Doctrine_Dark]

On 4/16/2022 at 3:19 PM, Sonero said:

Honda has always been that way though.  My wife needed to do a fundraiser thingy for school years ago. For the sake of ease I suggested taking my PS3, sticks and monitor and doing a little arcade thing. Charge the kids a quarter a play.

 

Kids were super hype for it. Surprisingly enough HDR was pretty fun for the kids even if they couldn't really do moves. Y'all can imagine how beast HHS is in that environment. 

 

That honestly sounds dope.