The Street Fighter V Thread, vol. 2

[FlyingVe]

I don't either, but MikeZ has said as much, and the MK guys said it when they did their net code rebuild. So, I'm just taking them at their word.

[elliephil]

Rollback is predictive (to an extent) from my understanding so I would love to understand the logic behind the coding and how it decides when to do the rollback. Makes me wonder if it's even possible for a game with a lot of inputs happening like Tekken.

[FlyingVe]

6 minutes ago, elliephil said:

Rollback is predictive (to an extent) from my understanding so I would love to understand the logic behind the coding and how it decides when to do the rollback. Makes me wonder if it's even possible for a game with a lot of inputs happening like Tekken.

Well, 90% of the rollbacks are basically imperceptible, as its barely rolling back anything.

 

Basically, the game assumes whatever you were doing at the moment the packets dropped is what you were doing during. So, if you were doing f2, it would assume you are still hitting those buttons.  When the connection is reestablished it resets the game to reality. All rollback does is let the game play as normal during those drops under the assumption that most of the time, the drop only lasts a frame or two so the rollback is irrelevant. Many people I think, over complicate what "predictive" means in this context. As mentioned at the beginning, most of the time, the rollbacks are only a frame or two and are imperceptible.

 

Common problems with rollback games are games that try to transmit too much data (see SFV trying to sync background elements and physics), or the rollbacks themselves not being sync'd (see SFV or the SNK net code).

 

An important thing to remember is, a bad connection is still a bad connection. What rollback does, is expand the range of what is acceptable within a good connection, and hard cap the amount of input delay (most rollback games have 2-3 frames of delay still).

Edited November 29, 2021 by FlyingVe

[Vhozite]

40 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

But KI is definitely a better game than Strive.

 

🧢 🧢 🧢 

[Darc_Requiem]

11 minutes ago, Vhozite said:

🧢 🧢 🧢 

 

Sorry fam, saw the caps and this came to mind.

[Sonero]

1 hour ago, FlyingVe said:

But KI is definitely a better game than Strive.

 

Even LK commonly jokes that KI is the game that fighting game players keep saying they want.

 

KI players always trying to hit you with thst gay guy chasing straight dudes mix up: how do you know you don't like KI if you don't play it?

 

I already had KI give me a reach around and it wasn't for me. Now I'm squarely in the arms of Strive PAWGs and PotBuster Snuggles.

[Sonero]

 

[Hawkingbird]

3 hours ago, Sonero said:

Strive is the standard because its a game thats not trash with good netcode.

Nah man, not with that lobby system it's doesn't. MK and KI still stomps it.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Hawkingbird

[Sonero]

 

[FlyingVe]

55 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

Nah man, that with that lobby system it's doesn't. MK and KI still stomps it.

To throw shade where it's due. KI's cross play system is pants. Its net code is still the best though, with only MK approaching it.

 

I don't get Arksys and their constant need to try and reinvent lobbies and menus. They had it right with the original Blazblue (basically), and have just fucked it up more and more with each game.

[Mr.Cipher]

This makes me want to talk about the dumb shit that is running around since 2016, that calls itself "making games easier for beginners".

If anything FG Devs have still not understand what they are doing wrong and why less people stick than they want to.

 

I am to tired to start a rant now, might do it tomorrow after work, but I started getting into 3D modeling recently, so might not gurantee that I would do that either.

[Hawkingbird]

I think I found @Yicemanprofile banner

 

[Dayaan]

39 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

I am to tired to start a rant now, might do it tomorrow after work, but I started getting into 3D modeling recently, so might not gurantee that I would do that either.

Oh thank God. I was really worried for our safety there. Thank you for having mercy on us today!

[Shahenzan]

KI is really hard to beat as far as netcode goes because it was designed with rollback in mind. The way inputs are buffered in that game, the way it handles things were all built to work with the netcode it had.  Strive isn't on that level because it was originally a delay based game and the menus still have some jank, but it's very solid

 

Also that being said FUCK KI combo breaker system in that game is easily top ten worst fighting game mechanics ever devised 

[Sonero]

Wait 'til arcsys starts designing games with Rollback in mind.

 

Hopefully they teach Capcom because holy hell is SF5's netcode full throttled garbage.

 

Edit: Trying to play this again. I'm legitimately impressed by how bad this netcode is.

 

Edit 2: After trying some more games, still not a single good conneciton. Just how badly coded is this netcode?

[Hawkingbird]

Played Luke for a solid hour and I'm liking him a lot. He might become a pocket character for me

[Mattatsu]

Speaking of KI, I finally ordered myself a good Pc to run games on, and bought KI which is on sale on steam.

 

new PC should come in around the 16th, so if anyone’s up for playing it around the holidays, feel free to let me know and I’ll keep track of it.

 

also, bought Doom Eternal and will finally get FC2 up and running to properly play 3S and MVC2

[FlyingVe]

I will always play KI with people but, as mentioned earlier, cross play is kinda pants.

 

It works, but invites and stuff don't really work.

[Hawkingbird]

You got to hope for the best when it comes to KI crossplay. 

[Sonero]

You gotta hope for a stiff drink with SF5 crossplay too.

 

Tried to play a homie. His conneciton was perfect. My connect had Ryu moving like he was on ultra instinct.

 

LMAO.

[FlyingVe]

Like I said it works just fine, but you can't really do invites, so you kinda gotta "force" yourself into a match. Its not great.

Edited November 30, 2021 by FlyingVe

[Mattatsu]

Hey @Vhozite (or anyone really), what’s a good multiplayer FPS for PC? Is Apex still good? I liked it when I tried it on PS4, but I hated playing it on a controller.

[FlyingVe]

Halo Infinite.

 

Its the truth.

[Mattatsu]

5 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

Halo Infinite.

 

Its the truth.

Oh yeah, I forgot that was out. Thanks!

[delete_me]

I wonder if Luke's pseudo-charge special feels vaguely similar to how some Hilde combos used to feel in SCIV and SCV.

 

Maybe I'll make an alternate account to get a quick 100k FM and try him out. Not quite willing to spend real money on that dude. But as fundamentally basic as his toolset seems, he kind of looks fun in videos.

[Shakunetsu]

 

[Vhozite]

7 hours ago, FlyingVe said:

Halo Infinite.

 

Its the truth.

@Mattatsuyes I play infinite with my friends. I think it’s just ok but the multiplayer is free. In terms of Halo I prefer Combat evolved or Reach but Infinite has potential to improve.
 

Realistically I play whatever my friends tend to play, and we buy games on sale. Personally I like battlefield 5 and Apex more than halo but it’s a personal taste thing 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Vhozite

[Darc_Requiem]

 

[Hawkingbird]

@MattatsuI will also give my recommendation to Halo Infinite. I've been playing it with friends and we're having a blast with it. It's the most fun I had with the series since Reach. A couple of modes are missing like Forge but it's F2P so that will come later. What's there is still plenty fun.

 

If you like co-op shooters I highly recommend the ascent. 

[FlyingVe]

What is with all you crazy people talking up Halo reach.

 

Halo reach has the second worst Halo multiplayer outside of CE (which barely has multiplayer at all).

 

🙂

[Volt]

19 hours ago, FlyingVe said:

They still don't have net code as good as KI or MK, So what standard are they setting?

I played A LOT of people here on +R and some people on Strive.

 

Barring Strive's idiotic lobby/park/tower system, the game itself ran perfectly. Literally no issues with +R.

19 hours ago, FlyingVe said:

Kinda? This hack helped some things but broke others.

It broke Crossplay for the simple reason that PC had the fix but PS4 didn't because Altimor couldn't access its internal files for obvious reasons.

 

It was nothing but pride.

[elliephil]

14 hours ago, Shahenzan said:

Also that being said FUCK KI combo breaker system in that game is easily top ten worst fighting game mechanics ever devised

Why tho, I thought it was pretty cool and added some depth for offense

[FlyingVe]

17 minutes ago, elliephil said:

Why tho, I thought it was pretty cool and added some depth for offense

It gives people a way out of something that is guaranteed in other games. That runs some people the wrong way. While I do think that many of those people don’t really understand the system, people like different things.

 

it’s the same reason lots of people hate parry in 3S as another example. 

[FlyingVe]

22 minutes ago, Volt said:

I played A LOT of people here on +R and some people on Strive.

 

Barring Strive's idiotic lobby/park/tower system, the game itself ran perfectly. Literally no issues with +R.

I didn’t say the new Arksys rollback was bad, I said it wasn’t as good as KI or MK which I stand by.

 

I also won’t give them props for finally doing the bare minimum after basically being forced to. The reaction should be “finally, what took so long”, not “thank you based Arksys”.

22 minutes ago, Volt said:

It broke Crossplay for the simple reason that PC had the fix but PS4 didn't because Altimor couldn't access its internal files for obvious reasons.

 

It was nothing but pride

Ok.

 

I remember more to it than that but I’m not going on o go back and look it all up so I take your word for it and retract my statement.

Edited November 30, 2021 by FlyingVe

[Volt]

6 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

I didn’t say the new Arksys rollback was bad, I said it wasn’t as good as KI or MK which I stand by.

 

I also won’t give them props for finically doing the bare minimum after basically being forced to. The reaction should be “finally, what took so long”, not “thank you based Arksys”.

The reaction at first was "finally, what took so long", then when people actually played it and had smooth connections across entire oceans, then it shifted to "thank you based ArcSys"

 

Now I ain't gonna act like I know how good KI and MK's netcodes are because I couldn't care less about either of those games, especially MK, and everyone here knows it.

 

But if I can boot Strive and +R in Brazil and scrap with people all the way up in Europe, I won't say "That's the bare minimum." That's straight up great. 

 

Edit: Kinda off-topic, but has anyone seen @KingTubb? Haven't heard of him for a while now.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Volt

[FlyingVe]

Nope, that is in fact the bare minimum. Most people were blissfully unaware of just how bad most fighting game that code was, so a popular game doing the bare minimum was considered to be magical. Less than that should be unacceptable.

 

MK can KI net code is even better than that.

 

Look at it this way, if Capcom fixed streetfighters net code to be exactly the same as strives what would your reaction be? I bet you it wouldn’t be thank you based Capcom.

Edited November 30, 2021 by FlyingVe

[Hawkingbird]

34 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

Halo reach has the second worst Halo multiplayer outside of CE (which barely has multiplayer at all).

I loved Reach mechanically. Plus it had the armor skills which I had fun with. I put as much time into its multiplayer as I did Halo 3.

[FlyingVe]

2 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

I loved Reach mechanically. Plus it had the armor skills which I had fun with. I put as much time into its multiplayer as I did Halo 3.

Armor skills are the main reason Reach is terrible. They do awful things to the combat flow and are generally massively overpowered. The most obvious example is armor lock, but actually, most of the armor skills are broken, they just each eclipse one and other. Reach also had (overall) poor maps and weapon balance.

 

3 was pretty great. Its not my favorite largely because the whole game is really weak and weapon balance is pants. But the gameplay is solid and the maps are fantastic.

 

Best multiplayer Halo's for my money are 2, 3, 5 (Arena Only), and currently infinite.

[Hawkingbird]

12 minutes ago, Volt said:

But if I can boot Strive and +R in Brazil and scrap with people all the way up in Europe, I won't say "That's the bare minimum." That's straight up great. 

Arc systems is simply catching up to where western fighting game devs were a decade ago. As good as Strive netcode is its online is not stable. Connecting to people can be hassle, the servers are still junk, and lobbies will forever be trash. You can't ignore all the problems surrounding its online suite because it does one thing well

Edited November 30, 2021 by Hawkingbird

[FlyingVe]

To be fair though, it does the most important thing well (Matches run well).

 

But even that took over a decade of people begging and a pandemic to get them to do.

Edited November 30, 2021 by FlyingVe

[Mattatsu]

12 minutes ago, Volt said:

Kinda off-topic, but has anyone seen @KingTubb? Haven't heard of him for a while now.

Yeah, I’ve thought about him a bit over the last few weeks. I just assumed he took a break from the forum.

 

I just booted up my PS to see when he was last online and it looks like he was on yesterday, so I assume he’s okay.

[Sonero]

6 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

You can't ignore all the problems surrounding its online suite because it does one thing well

 

Yes, yes you can.

 

People play SF5 constantly and that has bare minimum lobbies thst function but an online netcode that doesn't.

 

Strive stays winning.

[Hawkingbird]

4 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

To be fair though, it does the most important thing well (Matches run well).

 

But even that took over a decade of people begging and a pandemic to get them to do.

It's difficult for me to celebritie the important thing when the games keeps desyncing, the servers booting an entire room of players, and generally  being a trial of attrition to get a single game going hoping nothing fails along the way. 

[Volt]

11 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

Nope, that is in fact the bare minimum. Most people were blissfully unaware of just how bad most fighting game that code was, so a popular game doing the bare minimum was considered to be magical. Less than that should be unacceptable.

 

MK can KI net code is even better than that.

 

Look at it this way, if Capcom fixed streetfighters net code to be exactly the same as strives what would your reaction be? I bet you it wouldn’t be thank you based Capcom.

Is that so? So if that's the floor, what's the ceiling?

 

3 minutes ago, Hawkingbird said:

Arc systems is simply catching up to where western fighting game devs were a decade ago. As good as Strive netcode is its online is not stable. Connecting to people can be hassle, the servers are still junk, and lobbies will forever be trash. You can't ignore all the problems surrounding its online suite because it does one thing well

Now, no one said otherwise.

 

Skullgirls had this shit solved for over a decade now. No one is ignoring anything, but to act like Strive's netcode is the bare minimum is dishonest. Everyone will tell you that the biggest failure Strive had was the entire process of actually getting to a match. The game takes 5 whole ass minutes to boot for crying out loud.

 

But if you can play with people that are entire ass continents away from you with a good connection, what is the ceiling? The moon? Is that the next goal? Bodying people taking laptops to Elon Musk's space trips?

 

2 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Yes, yes you can.

 

People play SF5 constantly and that has bare minimum lobbies thst function but an online netcode that doesn't.

 

Strive stays winning.

Pretty much. SFV's lobbies and CFN nonsense are pretty serviceable. I really don't have a lot to complain about these lobbies.

 

What's the point if when I'm in a match, the game is spazzing out?

[Mr.Cipher]

Strives online lobbys are the result of "we have to invent the wheel new."
So instead of making something simple, they made something convoluted, the polar opposit of what is easy to understand.

They could have went with Revelators online system. 
Faceless ranked (with better matchmaking) and player matches/Lobbys how they were.

 

But nope, gotta have to make the worst Lobby system in FG history.

[FlyingVe]

2 minutes ago, Volt said:

Is that so? So if that's the floor, what's the ceiling?

I don't understand this question, why is there a ceiling? The goal should be to make connections as good as possible within the laws of physics.

 

Also, to be restate my position. Strive does the absolute most important thing well, and all the other stuff is at least somewhat tolerable as a result (though I still don't care much for the game).

[Hawkingbird]

4 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Yes, yes you can.

 

People play SF5 constantly and that has bare minimum lobbies thst function but an online netcode that doesn't.

 

Strive stays winning.

Having played games that done it better it's not something I'm willing to overlook. It's difficult to remain motivated to play when it can be a pain in the ass to get a game going. 

[Volt]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Cipher said:

Strives online lobbys are the result of "we have to invent the wheel new."
So instead of making something simple, they made something convoluted, the polar opposit of what is easy to understand.

They could have went with Revelators online system. 
Faceless ranked (with better matchmaking) and player matches/Lobbys how they were.

 

But nope, gotta have to make the worst Lobby system in FG history.

And they will, rightfully, be blasted forever for it.

 

Hell, DBFZ was a mess too. The idea of customization and drip is nice, but it gotta be functional.

 

They got the hardest part down, which is the connection itself, now they gotta iron out these stupid kinks. Frankly, that's a loooot easier than what Capcom gotta do.

 

3 minutes ago, FlyingVe said:

I don't understand this question, why is there a ceiling? The goal should be to make connections as good as possible within the laws of physics.

But when ArcSys does it, "that's the bare minimum."

 

[FlyingVe]

5 minutes ago, Volt said:

Hell, DBFZ was a mess too. The idea of customization and drip is nice, but it gotta be functional.

This shit started long before DBFZ.

 

5 minutes ago, Volt said:

But when ArcSys does it, "that's the bare minimum."

 

I really don't understand your point. They did to the minimum.

 

What Arksys has is basic, functioning rollback net code. Like I said, I think way to many people didn't realize what it can do. Many other companies have done better. You've said yourself you haven't played the games that do it better so... kinda my point exactly?

 

[Mr.Cipher]

One of the game that does is supposes better is just gore and blood with nothing else in it.

And KI is known for the Netplay, it's the gold standard for it.

 

If Strive is bare minimum because you have a hateboner for the game, say so.

I can shit on Strive for a lot of reasons the whole day, bad netplay ain't one of them.