Street Fighter 6 Lounge: The FGC has a crack problem.

[EvilCanadian]

 

 

translates to: sorry pc baby you got beat up by superior consoleman, bt this is not an excuse you get to use.

[Sonero]

34 minutes ago, EvilCanadian said:

bt this is not an excuse you get to use.

 

I've been playing Pot in the beta so far. Half of it to fuck around, the other part of it to see what the deal is with the floors and the play levels.

 

The amount of smurfs I've found is silly. I intentionally flubbed the trial match just to look at all the different floor designs and other stuff. You had people in floor 3 running full oki and random corner pressure on people. Its pretty shitty.

 

Its one thing when its like in SF5 and it can't be helped if you wanted some type of alt account for a different character. But dudes are going out of their way to shit on people they can easily avoid. Its weird.

[Vhozite]

Smurf behavior is absolutely out of control in every online game I’ve played in the last couple years. Not sure if it’s something that can be fixed. 

[TWINBLADES]

SF6 is the best game ever because it made @Mr.Cipher disappear 

 

 

[Sonero]

Think Zhyfer desappeared after BBCF got rollback. He went into deep cover duck mode to dodge Shahahenzan.

[Pair of Rooks]

45 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

I've been playing Pot in the beta so far. Half of it to fuck around, the other part of it to see what the deal is with the floors and the play levels.

 

The amount of smurfs I've found is silly. I intentionally flubbed the trial match just to look at all the different floor designs and other stuff. You had people in floor 3 running full oki and random corner pressure on people. Its pretty shitty.

 

Its one thing when its like in SF5 and it can't be helped if you wanted some type of alt account for a different character. But dudes are going out of their way to shit on people they can easily avoid. Its weird.

I poked around a bit and yeah the floors are all fucked cause it's basically a game-wide rank reset.  

 

Holy cow I forgot how much I hated those RANKING UPDATE interruptions during a set. 

 

I also forgot about that mod that made the UI make sense or how i had steam map my controller buttons since strive can't map a function onto multiple buttons.  So I'm floor 5 now because I can't run-up throw.  😳

 

[Hawkingbird]

[Sonero]

Yes, smashers are idiots and they know fuck all about anything.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Darc_Requiem]

2 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

You know I don't believe in the death penalty but...... 🤔

Edited October 14, 2022 by Darc_Requiem

[TWINBLADES]

I know it's probably too early to do a retrospective but looking back at old articles for SFV and seeing what was promised and what we got in the end is really funny.

 

 

I think over all Capcom accomplished allot of what they wanted. Not allot of contradictions surprisingly. I feel like so many people will use SF6 to act like Capcom had 0 vision for 5 or that it was always about muh esports. 

 

 

This one is interesting too because of how it highlights that the V-System was never considered a universal mechanic even by them. I didn't really play SF4 like that so going back to this slide after playing SF6 is really funny. I think the V-System was actually cool when it worked for the characters it worked for. But I know so many people hated it for feeling like their character only got sauce from getting beat the fuck up. Now 6 just lets it all hang out. 

 

 

This slide right here is so infamous for being the biggest fucking cap lmao 

>character balance

uh huh 

>community feedback 

LMAO!!! What a fucking disaster that was. I remember there was a reddit community list styled after an NWA album that listed so many fucking issues lol

 

 

I think only a few of these got addressed for 5 however can you name something on here 6 doesn't have?

 

Remember when the store was first released but it was so whack someone did a mock up for a better one lmao

 

Remember when we used to blame Combofiend for balance issues because of this info?

 

LA MAO!!!!!

 

 

This was a comment that was left on the article detailing the rootkit rollback on PC hahahaaa

 

 

lmao

 

We were in cope mode back then bros

 

Remember that one Fang player World Combo that kept getting clapped by the Capcops because they kept cheating their way to the top of the leader boards?

 

 

Fang players are all cheats by the way.

 

 

Remember this nigga? Literally had some of the most boring fucking interviews with top players. I know he wanted to really make a mark in the FGC but it was getting to the point where he had to ask the community to get him to different events. Hasn't uploaded a video in over a year. 

 

 

HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

Holy shit was SFV a shit show god damn!

 

Look how far we've come.... 

 

 

 

 

[Chun-Li_Forever]

 

Street Fighter 5 vs Street Fighter 6 - Chun-Li

 

 

[TWINBLADES]

 

You can fucking do this off the EX smoke teleport? fuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Daemos]

Did you guys see this? Canada vs Japan! If the netcode stays this stable at full capacity, Capcom would've hit a homerun with SF6 and set a positive tone for the next decade!

[BornWinner]

 

[Doctrine_Dark]

2 hours ago, Daemos said:

Did you guys see this? Canada vs Japan! If the netcode stays this stable at full capacity, Capcom would've hit a homerun with SF6 and set a positive tone for the next decade!

I remember fighting someone from Asia and being shocked at how smooth it felt.

 

If that carries over to the full release, this will truly be a dream come true.

[TWINBLADES]

Absolutely god tier write up of the good things SF6 is doing and and the small things it can improve on. They do a fucking fantastic job talking about the drive system and why the people bitching about DI being overpowered is stupid. It’s kind of a long read but holy shit it’s like the guy was ripping my thoughts out and perfectly reading them back to me. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by TWINBLADES

[Vhozite]

2 hours ago, TWINBLADES said:

Absolutely god tier write up of the good things SF6 is doing and and the small things it can improve on. They do a fucking fantastic job talking about the drive system and why the people bitching about DI being overpowered is stupid. It’s kind of a long read but holy shit it’s like the guy was ripping my thoughts out and perfectly reading them back to me. 

Edit: I had to post this as is because Megashock mobile was straight up not letting me scroll and I didn’t want to lose my post. I’m not done typing

 

I respect the thought put into this guys post but I don’t really agree with all of his takes. Or more accurately I agree with most of what he’s saying but I don’t agree with the thought processes used to reach some of his conclusions.

Like the very first part of his post he talks about how he likes the drive system because he finds meter management in FGs interesting, but then goes on to list like 2-3 ways where you don’t have to manage it at all. 
 

Farther down he’s starts talking about DI. 
“I dislike when fighting game players think they deserve to own a space on screen and not be threatened, and they want the game to devolve into whiff punishing low forward with sweep, as if it's some "pure" form of the genre.” I get and agree with what’s he’s saying about people wanting pure footisies, but his statement here and in the following paragraph just makes it sound like he deserves to always be able pressure the defender. 
 

I do like how informative this just purely on the info given about mechanics. I didn’t get to play the beta and it’s nice to have some solid “this is how this works” stuff to read for things I wasn’t 100% about.

 

Credit where it’s due, farther down he cops to liking certain styles of play over others. The more I read the more reasonable I feel like dude is compared to the beginning where it’s real “I like this so it’s right as is” vibes.

 

Last edit: Overall a good post. I stopped reading when he got to shit like animations and net code cause I already know that shit is good.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Vhozite

[Sonero]

What the hell kind of weird hot take is this:

 

Quote

I dislike when fighting game players think they deserve to own a space on scren and not be threatened, and they want the game to devolve into whiff punishing low forward with sweep, as if its some "pure" form of the genre. This is nonsense; the best fighting games force you to be nervous about pretty much every space on the screen, and DI helps accomplish that.

 

Damn, Vhozite was right, this is some high class slackjawed shit. Nobody is saying that they want the game to be that 24/7. But goddamn, it can't be the land of misfit tools where dudes can get in easily either. Any time you successfully control space, you earned it. Unless you're in one of the few games where long limbed characters are disastrously strong, I don't think I've seen a player who was zoning effectively that didn't earn the control they established. Think there's a definitely a group of players that wanna be able to get all up in your guts when they feel like it (but they'll never admit that this is what they want in a game).

 

Quote

  If you want to control that space, earn it by thinking about the threat of DI and proving you can control your footsies well enough to react (or block). This is why DI shouldn't be more expensive than 1 bar, or substantially slower than it is, or be less than 2 hits of armor (necessary to stop 2 hit overheads and normal into special cancels). It would lose the potency necessary to keep the defense constantly worried about it, because nobody would use it outside of reacting to very specific moves in those cases.

 

This situation is really going to come down to how reactable DI is. Its a big splash move which is dope. But people randomly throwing out something with 3 hits of armor (bro wtf) might get tedious really fast. He mentioned focus attack, but he also forgot to talk about how it did the parts of DI but better without needing to be so excessive. The only real issue with focus attacks were the disparity in quality between all of them (shoutouts to fei long being able to fist your ancestors with his).  You could body somebody doing one with move into cancel and FA's could body somebody caught in a long poke.

 

Quote

One possible criticism of DI is that it will be a noob killer, and I can see some people being frustrated by it. But consider this: when beginners are flustered, they default to two main things, jumping and duplicating the move that is beating them. They will quickly learn that both of these beat DI and I think it will prevent them from being helpless and actually *help* with them playing "smartly". The fact that DI acts as a 1-button, no-quarter circle "fun move" that counters itself will give beginners the tool they need to unlock the fun of the game quickly (without giving them a tool they'll be able to beat strong players with). And the fact that they did a great job with the visuals of the move, a huge visceral explosion and possible slow-motion effect (it reminds me a lot of Killer Instinct's counter breaker), really helps sell the wow factor to new players.

 

This is a way bigger problem than he is willing to admit. He also talks about in that silly ass aspirational way FG players who don't know regular people do. If a move is a noob killer, it becomes worse when newish players go up against experienced ones. Because the experienced player is less likely to get hit by them and more likely to hit the noob. Then because this thing has 3 hits of armor for some bizarre reason, it isn't like you could teach them to blow it up like you could with focus attacks.

 

I have to play some part of SF6 to try it. But this feels too much like he doesn't understand how hard reacting to things correctly is. New players can barely anti air. You start throwing out moves that are faster than an anti air directly at them while they're busy trying to hit somebody with a normal and...somebody is not gonna have a good time.

 

This analysis of Drive impact feels like it was written by somebody who wants to play with dumbshit moves. Which makes sense because this guy is a massive Killer Instinct stan.

[Shakunetsu]

 

[Skort]

The Power of Nothingness is a state of consciousness transcending ordinary perspective, born through spiritual and mental refinement

 

Spoiler

 

[Dragonfave723]

 

 

[Vhozite]

I am curious what the idea behind 3 hits of armor on DI is. At 3 hits of armor can most characters break that without a super? After a certain point there isn’t really a functional difference between x amounts of hits and super armor.

[Sonero]

3 hits of armor means you need 4 hits to stop it. So they wanted to make sure that DI could stop a lot of coon combinations of normal xx special or normal xx ex special situations.

 

With 3 hits of armor, Ryu can't just do cr.mk while buffering EX hadou as a catch all to the situation. Which means they are essentially forcing it to be at a certain power level come hell or high water.

[BornWinner]

Drive Impact is two hits of armor. The third hit goes through.

 

 

[Sonero]

Ah. So Ryu can cr.mk xx ex fireball that ass.

 

Makes a world of difference there. Although think Sha told me that any normal that gets absorbed by drive impact is cancelable into a special. So you could hypothetically poke people with a normal and buffer DI into it for those footsies situations  

 

The question I'd have is if drive impact is cancelable from all normals or just the ones that can special cancel?

 

If not all normals cancel into DI, then you might be able to figure out some sort of OS where you do the DI input into non-special cancelable pokes so that you poke safely hut have DI buffered in case it gets absorbed.

[Vhozite]

Yeah two hits instead of three dramatically lowers my level of concern about DI. But this is why I tell people I’m glad to be wrong about my concerns. 

[Shahenzan]

1 minute ago, Sonero said:

Ah. So Ryu can cr.mk xx ex fireball that ass.

 

Makes a world of difference there. Although think Sha told me that any normal that gets absorbed by drive impact is cancelable into a special. So you could hypothetically poke people with a normal and buffer DI into it for those footsies situations  

 

The question I'd have is if drive impact is cancelable from all normals or just the ones that can special cancel?

 

If not all normals cancel into DI, then you might be able to figure out some sort of OS where you do the DI input into non-special cancelable pokes so that you poke safely hut have DI buffered in case it gets absorbed.

Only moves that can special cancel can cancel into DI. I tried OSing it and others did too, but there doesn't seem to be a way to buffer it without it coming out no matter what, which ofc is a big risk.

 

If i have one complaint i wish the special cancel window was a bit wider to more easily counter DI, or if there was a special extra long window specifically for counter di once a move has been absorbed, but i guess extending cancel windows would lead to other things they don't want and making a special anti DI window would lead to an OS or something. Seems clear they want it to be a constant threat and not something too easily mitigated.

 

Seems the frame data also takes into account drive system stuff. When i was playing kim i was surprised her c.mk was +1 on block, but the more i played the more i realized she has that as compensation for it not being special cancelable. If its not special cancelable its riskier to poke with bc it gets a lot harder to counter di, and it doesn't get access to drive rush pressure/combos which was making juri stand out a lot in the beta for having a really long cancelable c.mk.

 

Its looking more clear to me that like sfv, the game is meticulously tuned to achieve very specific things... though unlike sfv the things its forcing you to play around feel pretty good (right now at least lol)

[BornWinner]

The dangers of choosing fashion over function.

 

 

[Hecatom]

Here are the 1st batch of matches I had with Sonero, Reticently and DoctaMario last weekend on Samsho

 

 

[AriesWarlock]

 

[HeavensCloud]

I'm seeing very few if any complaints about SF6 so far.  Literally, only a few people that don't like DI, some people don't like the music and heard a few people not liking the menu navigation.  Seems like pretty minor things.  

 

I like that the system mechanics help mitigate bad matchups.  The game is universally giving you tools that just aren't there in other street fighters.  

[Shakunetsu]

 

[Sonero]

 

[Pair of Rooks]

5 minutes ago, Sonero said:

 

Yo if he wants to put in the work then more power to him.   

 

Good luck Sir Sabin, and godspeed. 

 

[Pair of Rooks]

9 hours ago, Shahenzan said:

Only moves that can special cancel can cancel into DI. I tried OSing it and others did too, but there doesn't seem to be a way to buffer it without it coming out no matter what, which ofc is a big risk.

 

Seems the frame data also takes into account drive system stuff. When i was playing kim i was surprised her c.mk was +1 on block, but the more i played the more i realized she has that as compensation for it not being special cancelable. If its not special cancelable its riskier to poke with bc it gets a lot harder to counter di, and it doesn't get access to drive rush pressure/combos which was making juri stand out a lot in the beta for having a really long cancelable c.mk.

 

From what streams I saw even if you were doing a target-combo into special  3-hitter that would break the DI, it wasn't reliable that the 3rd hit would come out in time to connect. Although you could do jabby combos to guarantee you'd stop it you're obviously sacrificing a lot of damage, adv, whatever.  But they want the DI to fire off at the edge of reaction time, so it's not like they could either lengthen the time or make all game combos happen faster.   

 

Re: Juri's special-cancellable cr.mk, all of her specials tend to be punishable on block, or at best minus (fireball release).   Assuming that's still true for SF6 Juri then the cancellable low forward is less of  a thing than it would be for Ryu. Bulldog her and she'll hang herself.

 

I'm curious if her low forward still low-profiles sonic booms, cause if so, combined with the dash momentum of Drive Rush....  👩‍🍳 💋

 

[ToreyBeans]

Dr. Frankenstein of dat PC master race strikes again. One day maybe PC will be viable, but until then - console life all de time! I'm tryna figure out how many TOs will legitimately throw likely hundreds of dollars together for the set ups. I respectfully get what Sabin is tryna do... Maybe the man is ahead of his time?

 

[Hawkingbird]

1 hour ago, ToreyBeans said:

Dr. Frankenstein of dat PC master race strikes again. One day maybe PC will be viable, but until then - console life all de time! I'm tryna figure out how many TOs will legitimately throw likely hundreds of dollars together for the set ups. I respectfully get what Sabin is tryna do... Maybe the man is ahead of his time?

 

If a TO wants to do all PC the best thing to do is secure a sponsorship with a PC company. Defend the North will have all their main games played on PC and the event is sponsored by MSI. They have laptops that need selling. 

[EvilCanadian]

Playing on console is more pure for tournaments as it does not allow all the SHORTCUTS that the pc versions allow

 

heh sorry kid, ya gotta earn that win on console 😎

[Hecatom]

Second batch of matches

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psychoblue]

 

[Sonero]

13 hours ago, Hawkingbird said:

If a TO wants to do all PC the best thing to do is secure a sponsorship with a PC company. Defend the North will have all their main games played on PC and the event is sponsored by MSI. They have laptops that need selling. 

 

It isn't that simple at all. A manufacturer could do that, but that'd be a whole lot of equipment that you'd then have to sell as used. Laptops also don't really scale well on top of us not knowing what the input delay on the innate laptop monitors are.  So then you'd need the laptop (which is going to be north of 800 dollars) plus the equipment to keep it cool,  and then a higher grade monitor to run at w/e hz is it that people want. That's an easy 1,200 before you buy the games.

 

What this is also going to do is completely and entirely fuck up locals. Because now, as much money as you need to run even small brackets smoothly and conveniently, you're going to incredibly up the price. The moment you start doing this shit at majors, suddenly dudes are going to start shitting on people hosting locals for not doing the same shit.

 

Then you get to the "we are giving this the best performance possible". Bro, you are modding the shit out of the game to run way faster than it does anywhere else. Its kinda crazy that before we had a big ol argument about how the game ran in arcade and whether a frame slower (ps3) or frame faster (360) was the better alternative. Now its "well Imma make this game run fucking crazy because its what the FGC deserves".

 

I kinda get it, but what Arturo is actually doing is creating a standard for certain tournaments that can't be replicated easily in most places. This means that if you want to compete at an even level, you gotta call up Art, ask him how to set up your stuff exactly like he has to be able to practice properly. Everybody else? You are absolutely assed out.

 

This isn't really a meme situation of "well sponsors fix everything".

 

then there's this shit:

 

 

Yeah ,its totally politics why, for a relatively small amount of money, I was able to get enough equipment to run good tournaments.  so getting a bunch of low input lag monitors and some Ps4s I can instead buy 1K laptops.

 

Yeah sure, Sony TOTALLY is what stopped me from doing everything for PC.

[BornWinner]

 

Rare Cannon Strike fanart. Anyone else play this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hawkingbird]

2 hours ago, Sonero said:

It isn't that simple at all. A manufacturer could do that, but that'd be a whole lot of equipment that you'd then have to sell as used. Laptops also don't really scale well on top of us not knowing what the input delay on the innate laptop monitors are.  So then you'd need the laptop (which is going to be north of 800 dollars) plus the equipment to keep it cool,  and then a higher grade monitor to run at w/e hz is it that people want. That's an easy 1,200 before you buy the games.

Unless your getting a macbook you don't need to get extra equipment to keep a laptop cool. Running hot isn't a concern and a game isn't a heavy enough workload to cause thermal throttling.

 

Innate monitors is a nonissue. The external monitor is the real concern. There's no need to spend top dollar on a monitor with a high refresh rate. Some even go under $150 if you know where to look. Something like this would be more than enough for street fighter

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072XCZSSW/ref=vp_d_cpf-substitute-widget_pd?_encoding=UTF8&pf_rd_p=2ec8857e-0329-426e-9d94-4a9fd9089019&pf_rd_r=3ZQQ7QPGANWPWXHTAG3A&pd_rd_wg=IExbX&pd_rd_i=B072XCZSSW&pd_rd_w=f0mCe&content-id=amzn1.sym.2ec8857e-0329-426e-9d94-4a9fd9089019&pd_rd_r=02cb3422-17fd-4a0c-9299-b7d5866a54f1

 

3 hours ago, Sonero said:

Then you get to the "we are giving this the best performance possible". Bro, you are modding the shit out of the game to run way faster than it does anywhere else. Its kinda crazy that before we had a big ol argument about how the game ran in arcade and whether a frame slower (ps3) or frame faster (360) was the better alternative. Now its "well Imma make this game run fucking crazy because its what the FGC deserves".

From the twitter thread, DBFZ is the most heavily modded game. From the sound of it he reduced the input lag by removing the DRM and anti-cheat. The former is something the console version doesn't have to deal with. The USF4 change is so the game can be played without screen tearing. The v-sync option doesn't work properly so altering the ini files to support 144hz is how they rid of themselves of that problem. It won't speed up the game.

[Skort]

Hey, 

 

New render that i did of Juri in her SF5 model with SF6 look 

 

 

Her SF 6 model that i managed to export , though still working on texturing it ( haven't managed to extract all the files yet , it has a lot of texture types,model quality is insanely higher than SF5 models , but i'm getting there ) . But i have started to rig with some mixed results while testing small animations with it.

 

[Hecatom]

On 10/14/2022 at 2:01 PM, Hawkingbird said:

 

Reminder that a lot of smashers came into SRK because they want to to try to get into SF4 and BBCT and started making up terms about stuff that existed for years, like Kara Cancels.

Or trying to make tier lists based on the most dumb shit imaginable.

[EvilCanadian]

Posting one of my own tweets cause its very important

 

 

[Hawkingbird]

1 minute ago, Hecatom said:

Reminder that a lot of smashers came into SRK because they want to to try to get into SF4 and BBCT and started making up terms about stuff that existed for years, like Kara Cancels.

Or trying to make tier lists based on the most dumb shit imaginable.

I had to deal with a lot of that when the Pokken scene was being developed. Most of the guys who got into it came from Smash and tried to inject as much Smash as they could into it. Like one of the first orders of business was choosing legal stages. Coming from Smash, they had no idea how common different stage sizes and obstacles are in 3D games. 

[Hecatom]

Just now, Hawkingbird said:

I had to deal with a lot of that when the Pokken scene was being developed. Most of the guys who got into it came from Smash and tried to inject as much Smash as they could into it. Like one of the first orders of business was choosing legal stages. Coming from Smash, they had no idea how common different stage sizes and obstacles are in 3D games. 

 

Something similar happened with more universal appeal games like many DBZ games and other arena fighters.

Where smashers tried to force their dumbassery when coming to the games.

 

I think Sonero shared something similar happening with dunno if it was DBFZ on his local scene, where smashers were trying to get a hold on the game and the community and how they are as usual a big headache to deal with.

[Dayaan]

On 10/14/2022 at 9:42 PM, BornWinner said:

 

[Phantom_Miria]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:52 AM, Daemos said:

There is a lot we could've done to improve FANG, Abel, and Hawk in terms of their character and presentation to make them resonate with modern FG audiences.

Abel is pretty bland, but I don't even think that you could do much to improve FANG and T. Hawk's designs: they're already pretty good and don't have really big flaws in design, it's just that FANG is a weird character in both visuals and gameplay and he's never going to be super-popular because of it, regardless of what you do unless you're willing to completely change the character (and then, what's the point), while T. Hawk I guess he never really managed to stand out from the other members of the SF2 cast (which is a shame because I think he's pretty cool, he's just really underutilized in the series).

 

I have to say: I appreciate booba a lot and I think the character designs of the new characters are pretty good regardless, but this impression that Capcom is fully replacing older, somewhat unpopular characters with new waifu versions of them, is not something I really like at all when I look at it from that perspective.

I'm against phasing out old characters, and I'm especially against design choices that want to avoid making "weird" characters like Hakan or FANG because they're unpopular in favour of safe designs that are unlikely to be widely disliked (because the worst that can happen to a waifu is being regarded as "generic", while the worst that can happen to wilder designs is, well, Abigail's reveal).

On 10/13/2022 at 3:21 AM, Vhozite said:

People hate the lonely/virgin nerd stereotype, but looking at what I see of the SF fan base there seems to be some truth to it. I mention this because short of these guys magically getting flooded with attention from ladies overnight, I just don’t see this changing. When it comes to stuff you like being ruined by a company catering to the lowest common denominator, the only thing you can really do to fight it is support the stuff you think is good as much as possible and just hope the tide changes somehow. 

I don't know. I don't think that people who get laid inherently dislike attractive chicks in videogames either. You could remove the virgin demographic and hot characters would still be more popular overall.

 

It's less of directly appealing to "virgins" in my opinion, and more that most people just like cool, attractive characters over weirder, more original ones. This leads to designers making safer designs because they're more popular, and safe design is creatively limited design, which isn't a good thing.